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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
Exactly. This is Obamacare come again. Hugely divisive among republicans, the base is enraged...but this time republicans can kill it in congress. If Boehner gives democrats a "get out of jail free" card, he's fucked.
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Exactly. Boehner must decide what he is more concerned about: his legacy within the GOP ranks and his current position OR his legacy amongst a growing hispanic community. I'm pretty confident which one is more important.
 
E

el retorno

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Exactly. This is Obamacare come again. Hugely divisive among republicans, the base is enraged...but this time republicans can kill it in congress. If Boehner gives democrats a "get out of jail free" card, he's fucked.
Click to expand...

I don't see the giant anger in the bases for the bill. They want stronger border control. If they get something they can twist into strengthening that the bill will pass. The places where their is are going to vote against the bill anyways. I don't see the house staging a coup. Who will takes his place? They're not stupid. This is kabuki theater.

@ThePlumLineGS 13m
@jamescdownie @ed_kilgore @jbplainblog @kdrum if enough Rs *privately* want reform to pass, his speakership isn't in doubt
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Nothing they say publicly changes anything. It matters what they want behind the scenes. I think the money is behind reform and that will force them not to oppose Boehner once they get their "border security"

Boehner knows more is riding on this vote than an angry base which can be easily distracted. Just have a few more Benghazi hearings.

The bases as been quieted on the fiscal cliff which was a giant bill and dealt with a issue much closer to republican hears, taxes.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
I am Michael Bolton said:
Btw McConnell said if Reid goes nuclear then when the GOP gets back the Senate, their majority leader will go nuclear on every bill. 51 to repeal the ACA, 51 to pass the pipeline, etc.

We know Reid doesn't have the balls to do it but if he did I'd tell Mitch 'go for it'. By the time the GOP gets the Senate and the White House the ACA will be so ingrained in society that they wouldnt have the balls to do it. Plus the insurance companies wouldn't let them since these companies are going to benefit the most from the ACA.
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But also: OK?

If the country elects a president who doesn't like Obamacare, 50 Senators who don't like Obamacare, and 218 Representatives who don't like Obamacare, then we shouldn't have Obamacare. The only part of that which is problematic is the House's lack of representativeness.
 
R

rocketknight

Member
Chait on who benefits politically from immigration reform:
It may be the case that Democrats just win the politics, regardless — they win if Republicans kill reform, and they win if they accede. Even if that were true, passing reform would at least take the issue off the table. If Republicans kill a bill, Democrats can run on it again in 2016, and basically every future election, and the underlying dynamics will get continuously better as the nonwhite share of the electorate rises every cycle. CNN’s poll shows that the Gang of Eight bill is narrowly popular, but it also creates a huge generational divide, with senior citizens strongly opposed and young voters strongly in favor. Eventually something will pass, and there’s no reason to think conservatives can get a better deal four, eight, or twenty years from now. The main question is how much political damage they will incur in the meantime.
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Gotchaye said:
If the country elects a president who doesn't like Obamacare, 50 Senators who don't like Obamacare, and 218 Representatives who don't like Obamacare, then we shouldn't have Obamacare. The only part of that which is problematic is the House's lack of representativeness.
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Surely you mean 60 senators!
 
D

Diablos

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Exactly. This is Obamacare come again. Hugely divisive among republicans, the base is enraged...but this time republicans can kill it in congress. If Boehner gives democrats a "get out of jail free" card, he's fucked.
Click to expand...
He's fucked no matter what. I imagine he really hates his job.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Piecake said:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/06/inequality
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Danke.



Also, too. Surprised it took these mouthbreathers this long to come up with this gambit:

Aware of the risks inherent in abortion politics, Republican leaders have moved to insulate themselves from Democrats’ criticism that they are opening a new front in the “war on women.” Representative Marsha Blackburn, Republican of Tennessee, will manage the debate on the bill when it reaches the House floor, a role that would customarily go to the sponsor, Representative Trent Franks of Arizona.
Click to expand...
 
R

rocketknight

Member
Media Is Biased On Marriage Equality—In Our Favor
In one of those findings that makes right-wing heads explode, the Pew Research Center has found that the mainstream media are much more likely to report favorably on marriage equality than they are to report on it in a negative light. The study of news media found that stories were supportive of marriage equality 47% of the time, compared with just 9% of the time when they were against it. (Stories were neutral or mixed 44% of the time.)
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Lieberal media!!11
 
E

el retorno

Member
Jindal:


Because the left wants: The government to explode; to pay everyone; to hire everyone; they believe that money grows on trees; the earth is flat; the industrial age, factory-style government is a cool new thing; debts don’t have to be repaid; people of faith are ignorant and uneducated; unborn babies don’t matter; pornography is fine; traditional marriage is discriminatory; 32 oz. sodas are evil; red meat should be rationed; rich people are evil unless they are from Hollywood or are liberal Democrats; the Israelis are unreasonable; trans-fat must be stopped; kids trapped in failing schools should be patient; wild weather is a new thing; moral standards are passé; government run health care is high quality; the IRS should violate our constitutional rights; reporters should be spied on; Benghazi was handled well; the Second Amendment is outdated; and the First one has some problems too.
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Ezra on it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...obby-jindal-is-the-republican-partys-problem/
 
A

Arrowgigantic

Member
Gotchaye said:
The only part of that which is problematic is the House's lack of representativeness.
Click to expand...
The House's lack of representativeness is nothing compared to the Senate. 65 senators represent 25% of the total U.S. population. Yeah they can't be gerrymandered, but it's still an issue.
 
E

el retorno

Member
Black Mamba said:
Cummings released the transcripts since Issa didn't even respond to his letter. Shocker: Issa is a liar. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-shed-new-light-on-genesis-of-irs-targeting/

You can read Sargent's take there, or I posted it in the IRS thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64557286&postcount=629
Click to expand...

shocked-face.png
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Matthew Gallant said:
The House's lack of representativeness is nothing compared to the Senate. 65 senators represent 25% of the total U.S. population. Yeah they can't be gerrymandered, but it's still an issue.
Click to expand...

This is more of a theoretical problem than a practical one, though, because that 25% of the population isn't united. The median Senator does a pretty good job of resembling the median national voter, and on issues of national interest the Senate does a pretty good job of reflecting public opinion. The median Representative and the House do not.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Black Mamba said:
Cummings released the transcripts since Issa didn't even respond to his letter. Shocker: Issa is a liar. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-shed-new-light-on-genesis-of-irs-targeting/

You can read Sargent's take there, or I posted it in the IRS thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64557286&postcount=629
Click to expand...
GG Issa. Making shit up about IRS corruption is no laughing manner. Similar IRS attacks led to violence in the 90s, along with the loss of tax revenue due to the creation of stupid loopholes.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
PhoenixPause said:
GG Issa. Making shit up about IRS corruption is no laughing manner. Similar IRS attacks led to violence in the 90s, along with the loss of tax revenue due to the creation of stupid loopholes.
Click to expand...

If you read my previous post on the matter in the IRS thread, you'll see the Issa himself released some more partials to the media who couldn't copy them but in their notes found Issa to be a liar.

Let me repost it:

WASHINGTON — When front-line tax agents in Cincinnati used the term "tea party," they didn't just mean conservative groups. Instead, a "tea party" case could refer to an application for tax-exemption from any group -- including liberal ones -- believed to be engaging in political activity, one IRS official told congressional investigators.

"Since the first case that came up to Washington happened to have that name, it appeared to me that that's what they were calling it that as a shorthand, because the first case had been that," said Holly Paz, the Internal Revenue Service's director of rulings and agreements. She said "tea party" could mean any political group, just like "Coke" is used as a generic term for soda, or people refer to tissues as "Kleenex."

Since the IRS revealed last month that applications from Tea Party groups had been subjected to additional scrutiny that delayed their approval for two to three years, congressional investigators have been trying to determine whether liberal groups were also caught up in the same process. An inspector general's report failed to resolve that question, and other IRS employees have given conflicting testimony about what they understood the term "tea party" to mean.

Paz, the highest-ranking IRS official with knowledge of the targeting to thus far cooperate with the congressional investigation, spoke to House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., and bipartisan committee staffers on May 21. USA TODAY reviewed all 222 pages of the transcript of her interview.

Paz said liberal groups were mentioned by name, alongside the Tea Party, on an IRS BOLO -- or "be on the lookout" -- list. Screeners in Cincinnati, where all applications for tax-exemptions are processed, used the list to identify sensitive or complex cases that should be sent to specialists in Cincinnati and Washington.

"And I was aware of, you know, other cases at that time that were working their way through the D.C. office that involved proposed denials of exemption to liberal organizations that supported the Democratic Party. So I had no indication that we were not being balanced in what we were doing," Paz said.

But Elizabeth Hofacre, the agency's emerging issues coordinator in Cincinnati when the targeting began, has told investigators that she kicked out any progressive groups that other agents tried to put in with the Tea Party cases. She said she understood the term to mean conservative or Republican groups. "I was tasked to do Tea Parties, and I wasn't — I wasn't equipped or set up to do anything else."

A USA TODAY analysis of IRS data shows that dozens of liberal groups received tax-exempt approval in the 27 months that Tea Party groups sat in limbo, even though the liberal groups were engaging in similar kids of activity. Groups applying for the exemption are supposed to be primarily focusing on social welfare, not political activity.

Paz's lawyer confirmed Saturday that she has been placed on administrative leave from the agency, but said she's done nothing wrong.

"Holly Paz was the whistle-blower and was the first to point out the problem," said Roel Campos, her Washington attorney, in an e-mailed statement. He noted that Paz was on maternity leave during two key time periods -- when the targeting first started in early 2010, and again when the IRS sent letters to Tea Party groups asking questions the agency now admits were improper.

Both times, Paz returned from leave to discover problems, and both times she brought them to the attention of her boss, Lois Lerner, Campos said.

Lerner, the director of exempt organizations, has invoked her right against self-incrimination in refusing to testify, but said she, too, has done nothing wrong.

On July 5, 2011, Lerner convened a meeting in Washington -- with Cincinnati managers attending by phone -- to discuss the Tea Party cases, Paz said. It was clear that screeners were using key words like "Tea Party", "Patriots" or "9/12" to identify cases for greater scrutiny.

Lerner "said the criteria needed to immediately be changed," Paz said. "She directed that they cease using the filters and labels that they were using before and that they would use this new phraseology about organizations with political lobbying or advocacy."

But in January 2012, IRS managers changed the criteria again to "political action type organizations involved in limiting/expanding government, educating on the Constitution and Bill of Rights, social economic reform/movement."

Paz said she was "surprised" the criteria would be changed again after Lerner ordered the problem fixed. While not as bad as using "Tea Party" keywords, "I felt that it was more appropriate to have criteria that were tied to the exemption requirements," Paz said.

It's unclear who was responsible for the change, Paz told investigators. "Because it was a very informal process and sort of a group decision, it wasn't really clear who was responsible," she said.

As Congress started asking questions, acting IRS commissioner Steven Miller sent Nancy Miller, a high-ranking IRS lawyer, to Cincinnati to investigate in April, 2012. Paz accompanied her. That review concluded that Cincinnati employees "didn't fully have a grasp on what sort of activity was permissible" by social welfare groups.

Paz said at least one liberal group had its tax-exemption denied during that time, but because of taxpayer privacy laws she could not be specific.

"And the main issue was that they were providing support to the Democratic Party," she said.

Paz, based in Washington, had various roles during the targeting, but eventually headed the IRS's Rulings & Agreements Office, which was responsible for processing applications for tax-exempt groups. She supervised about 330 employees, mostly in Cincinnati.

A registered Democrat, Paz contributed $4,000 to the Obama campaign in 2008, federal records show.

"Holly Paz is a consummate professional. Her political preferences have absolutely no impact in the discharge of her duties," her lawyer said.
Click to expand...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/06/16/irs-paz-targeting-tea-party/2426773/
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Wilsongt said:
I don't even think Biblology 101 states the Earth is flat. Just that it's only 6000 years old.
Click to expand...

The Bible doesn't explicitly state that the world is flat but they didn't know the world was round such that it does have statements that imply the world is flat. Things like referring to 'the four corners of the earth'.

It doesn't say 6000 years old either . . . that is also inferred by a genealogy that traces all the way back to Adam & Eve.


The fact that these holy books don't explicitly contain anything that was not known by people of that age points toward their lowly human origins. The Muslims seem to sensitive to this fact and have an entire sub-culture dedicated to "proving" that the Koran taught all sorts of science by correlating vague statements in the Koran with modern scientific knowledge. It is not very convincing to anyone that is not a Muslim though.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Biden on gun control:

Pplitico said:
He said his optimism has been girded by phone calls from members who voted 'no' on expanded background checks for gun buyers last time but who are now pleading, "'Can you find a way, can you find a way to revisit this?'"
Click to expand...

The idea of slimy fuckers like Jeff Flake and Kelly Ayotte calling up Biden and begging him to give them a do-over amuses me greatly.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Can't wait till elections.

Only time PoliGAF is exciting.
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Politics sucks right now because it is complete deadlock.

Nothing Obama would like to do can get through the House. And nothing the House wants to do can get through the Senate or Whitehouse.

The GOP has decided that "compromise" is a deadly sin only done by Rino traitors.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
Biden on gun control:



The idea of slimy fuckers like Jeff Flake and Kelly Ayotte calling up Biden and begging him to give them a do-over amuses me greatly.
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I can't help but believe he's grossly exaggerating as always. Why vote yes on a controversial bill that won't pass anyway? Congressmen tend to hate those types of votes.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
I can't help but believe he's grossly exaggerating as always. Why vote yes on a controversial bill that won't pass anyway? Congressmen tend to hate those types of votes.
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Who is it controversial with? Fringe primary voters? Who gives a fuck
don't answer that was rhetorical

You're right he might be exaggerating, but remember the massive damage control senators like Flake, Ayotte and Heller had to put on to make it seem like they supported expanding background checks when clearly they didn't, and how their approval ratings plunged. Maybe they've recovered a bit since then, but then you have stuff like Bloomberg's and Giffords' PACs hounding them on it on a daily basis. I could totally see them wanting Reid to bring it up again with maybe like one tweak so they can say it's sufficiently changed from its previous incarnation that they can vote for it now.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
MELVIN: Congresswoman, do you know how many cases of rape and incest go unreported in this country every year?

BLACKBURN: You know, I know that any rape and any incest is a horrible and horrific crime and what we want to do, and the purpose of the legislation today, Craig, is to make certain that those who are carrying out crimes against women, and against these unborn babies, are dealt with
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Well...that's a new one. Apparently this anti abortion bill is supposed to double as an anti-rape bill too.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oblivion said:
Well...that's a new one. Apparently this anti abortion bill is supposed to double as an anti-rape bill too.
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Actually I think she's doing the abortion=Gosnell thing, thus abortion is a disgusting violation of decency and an attack on women/children. Boehner has cited the trial as evidence that people support this bill.

People support the right to choose, period. They're analogizing "early" term abortions with what Gosnell did, as a means of building support for the pro life movement. Remember how much the far right complained about "TEH MEDIA" not covering the trial? They honestly believe that people will change their views on abortion if they learn about Gosnell.
 
G

gcubed

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Actually I think she's doing the abortion=Gosnell thing, thus abortion is a disgusting violation of decency and an attack on women/children. Boehner has cited the trial as evidence that people support this bill.

People support the right to choose, period. They're analogizing "early" term abortions with what Gosnell did, as a means of building support for the pro life movement. Remember how much the far right complained about "TEH MEDIA" not covering the trial? They honestly believe that people will change their views on abortion if they learn about Gosnell.
Click to expand...

Gosnell was murder, not abortion. Apparently the right thinks opponents are incapable of nuance
 
S

speculawyer

Member
PhoenixPause said:
GG Issa. Making shit up about IRS corruption is no laughing manner. Similar IRS attacks led to violence in the 90s, along with the loss of tax revenue due to the creation of stupid loopholes.
Click to expand...

Chris Matthews opened with this story. Wow. Fucking Issa, man. I mean I know the guy is a crook and all but how did he think this was going to end? I guess like the Clinton scandals the plan was probably to quietly drop this scandal and move onto the next fake scandal until they eventually find pay-dirt.

Apparently there are no consequences to cooking up fake scandals in the GOP. No price is ever paid for making outrageous allegations that eventually wither away into nothing.


They can just repeated play into the stereotype . . . the paranoid conspiracy base of the GOP that is willing to believe any claim about the Democratic wrong-doing because they are evil!

I just never understand why the people don't get tired of being lied to. I guess they don't mind if they want to believe the lies.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
gcubed said:
Gosnell was murder, not abortion. Apparently the right thinks opponents are incapable of nuance
Click to expand...

That's the thing: the pro life position is that abortion=murder. Yet I have never heard a news host ask that obvious question ("do you believe all abortions are murder?"). If so, every woman who has an abortion is Gosnell.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PhoenixPause said:
Actually I think she's doing the abortion=Gosnell thing, thus abortion is a disgusting violation of decency and an attack on women/children. Boehner has cited the trial as evidence that people support this bill.

People support the right to choose, period. They're analogizing "early" term abortions with what Gosnell did, as a means of building support for the pro life movement. Remember how much the far right complained about "TEH MEDIA" not covering the trial? They honestly believe that people will change their views on abortion if they learn about Gosnell.
Click to expand...

Nah, the Gosnell thing is a separate cudgel. Blackburn's comments were specifically on rapists.

speculawyer said:
Chris Matthews opened with this story. Wow. Fucking Issa, man. I mean I know the guy is a crook and all but how did he think this was going to end? I guess like the Clinton scandals the plan was probably to quietly drop this scandal and move onto the next fake scandal until they eventually find pay-dirt.

Apparently there are no consequences to cooking up fake scandals in the GOP. No price is ever paid for making outrageous allegations that eventually wither away into nothing.


They can just repeated play into the stereotype . . . the paranoid conspiracy base of the GOP that is willing to believe any claim about the Democratic wrong-doing because they are evil!

I just never understand why the people don't get tired of being lied to. I guess they don't mind if they want to believe the lies.
Click to expand...

Just because I never get tired of mentioning it: After the election, Limbaugh told his idiot followers that the reason he was wildly off on his prediction that Obama would lose was because he was lying to them. This was his defense.

But what do you expect from a guy who calls his own listeners "dittoheads".
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Black Mamba said:
Cummings released the transcripts since Issa didn't even respond to his letter. Shocker: Issa is a liar. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-shed-new-light-on-genesis-of-irs-targeting/

You can read Sargent's take there, or I posted it in the IRS thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64557286&postcount=629
Click to expand...
It's too late now. Americans think Obama was targeting Teaparty offices around the country with IRS and also wiretapping them with NSA.
 
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