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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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Diablos

Member
Meh. There's no question Hillary fucked up on Benghazi but this shouldn't be a political issue. There was a fuck up and people died. Did the WH lie about the video being the main culprit, despite the CIA saying otherwise? Sure. This hasn't been treated like huge news outside of the right because...it's not huge news. No, Obama didn't sit in the WH watching four Americans die, then demand the military not help them. I realize politics is ugly, but I always think a line is being crossed when someone suggests a the president of the United States let US soldiers (or diplomats) die for no reason. This isn't the Gulf of Tonkin, this is a government fuck up that also has the CIA's fingerprints all over it.

I think republicans know of the CIA involvement, the fact that the embassy was also a front for an operation, that the White House can't really openly talk about it...so they've decided to capitalize on that by spreading some pretty dangerous FUD. I could understand using this as a hail mary during the election - granted I didn't think it would work, but I at least knew what they were trying to achieve (win the election). But what motive is there now, other than to smear the president in the eyes of the military? Obama isn't going to get impeached over this, his approval won't sink due to it, etc. The only intent I see here is to demonize the president and accuse him of treason. And as I said, when you start sending that message to our troops that can be a very dangerous thing.

(On Hillary: does anyone honestly think this will matter in three years when she's running against another GOP candidate, be it Rubio or Paul or Christie, with absolutely no foreign policy experience? She's going to trounce whoever challenges her on these topics)
All good points, but you have to notice the GOP's relentless effort to try and go after the Obama administration here and hold him accountable. I just saw some highlights of the latest testimony and it seems like there's a fuckton of tension between the State Department and White House. You can't help but wonder if they'll try to impeach him if the Dems lose the Senate next year. After all, the only thing that kept Clinton from getting kicked out was the Democratic Senate, no?

Case in point -- how many Senators are required to impeach? If it's 67 then good luck with that, Rethugs.
 
You may be right, but the way we, as a country, responded to it may have been significantly different. Public opinion about whether we should have sent troops there didn't become negative until the summer of '68. If we'd actually gotten our troops out in early '69, 20,000 plus would not have been killed, and the subsequent treatment of those who did return home would have likely been far less contentious, because the way we treated those soldiers as a nation when they came back was reprehensible...

I don't think any of that changes my assessment of LBJ though. The fact that the war might have ended sooned doesn't change the fact that it didn't.

I do certainly think Nixon is a far worse president for a zillion reasons. He's easily the worst president of my lifetime (starts in 1966). Bush II seemed to be making a run on it, but he never got up to Nixon levels of atrocity.
 
I don't think any of that changes my assessment of LBJ though. The fact that the war might have ended sooned doesn't change the fact that it didn't.

I do certainly think Nixon is a far worse president for a zillion reasons. He's easily the worst president of my lifetime (starts in 1966). Bush II seemed to be making a run on it, but he never got up to Nixon levels of atrocity.
Can you explain why Nixon sucked

I'm interested
 
Can you explain why Nixon sucked

I'm interested

Well, even before I learned that he tanked the resolution to the Vietnam war in order to get reelected, there are there highlights:

1) Got elected claiming to be able to end the war swiftly, didn't at all.

2) Bombing of Cambodia, leading directly to the destablization of that country and genecide

3) Subverting democracy by spying on his opponent's campaign (to be fair, he's not the only president to do this-- he was just the first to be unable to use the FBI and therefore used his own, clumsy people).

4) Pushed off socializing medicine in favor of employer-provided plans which subsequently have allowed costs to spiral out of control

In the plus column, he established the EPA-- which by all accounts ought to be a conservative cause, but isn't anymore for some (Reagan) reason.

I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff, but that's plenty for me. I'd have to look, but I assume he helped some of the defunding of the Great Society programs that hampered it from being a complete success.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
If you want to read 700 indignant pages about Pres. Nixon, read Nixonland by Rick Perlstein.
 
Well, even before I learned that he tanked the resolution to the Vietnam war in order to get reelected, there are there highlights:

1) Got elected claiming to be able to end the war swiftly, didn't at all.

2) Bombing of Cambodia, leading directly to the destablization of that country and genecide

3) Subverting democracy by spying on his opponent's campaign (to be fair, he's not the only president to do this-- he was just the first to be unable to use the FBI and therefore used his own, clumsy people).

4) Pushed off socializing medicine in favor of employer-provided plans which subsequently have allowed costs to spiral out of control

In the plus column, he established the EPA-- which by all accounts ought to be a conservative cause, but isn't anymore for some (Reagan) reason.

I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff, but that's plenty for me. I'd have to look, but I assume he helped some of the defunding of the Great Society programs that hampered it from being a complete success.

Wait, wait, wait, WAIT. You mean to tell me motherfucking NIXON is the goddamn reason Insurance companies have the healthcare system by the balls?

Are you fucking kidding me, right now?
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Pres. Nixon called the coach of the Redskins and gave him playcalling ideas.

During his political exile in the early 60s, he told a friend that if he had to practice law for a living instead of being in politics, he'd be mentally dead within two years and physically dead within five.

And the best quote of Pres. Nixon, to a staff member: "You'll never make it in politics, Len. You just don't know how to lie."
 
Wait, wait, wait, WAIT. You mean to tell me motherfucking NIXON is the goddamn reason Insurance companies have the healthcare system by the balls?

Are you fucking kidding me, right now?

I am not clear on all the details, but I believe he pushed employer-subsidized healthcare in order to stave off the idea of government-subsidized healthcare. I don't know that I'd call it evil like some of those other items, but it turned out to be a bad idea in the long run, for sure.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Wait, wait, wait, WAIT. You mean to tell me motherfucking NIXON is the goddamn reason Insurance companies have the healthcare system by the balls?

Are you fucking kidding me, right now?

We've been pushing off socializing medicine since Teddy Roosevelt first (unsuccessfully) tried to push for nationalized health care over 100 years ago.
 
If Taibbi were as over the top, I'd probably like him more.

I really hate the sensationalism and guilt-by-association that runs throughout. But if he were Thompson, I'd judge it less for it's journalisitc value.
 

Diablos

Member
...and when you are done with your daily dose of Benghazi, please turn to the biggest vagina in DC for the latest Obamacare repeal attempt:

The House Republican leadership has scheduled a floor vote next week on a measure that would repeal the 2010 healthcare reform law that even the president now affectionately refers to as Obamacare.

The Republican-controlled House has voted more than 30 times to repeal all or parts of the law since it was passed. But many GOP members, especially freshmen, were pushing the leadership to get a vote on the record in 2013, reports Politico.

According to Politico, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor of Virginia on Wednesday tweeted, "It just keeps getting worse. I am scheduling a vote for next week on the full repeal of #Obamacare."

Some conservatives have been pushing the GOP leadership to take a more aggressive stand against Obamacare before Jan. 1 of next year, when the law is scheduled to be fully implemented. They hope to capitalize, Politico noted, on what even some Democrats predict could be a rocky rollout for Obamacare in advance of the 2014 midterm elections.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cantor-obamacare-repeal-vote/2013/05/08/id/503470
 

Clevinger

Member
It's time for your daily scheduled:

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Enjoy your day. Please return tomorrow.

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I feel a little bad about posting a lot of links today, but this Time piece about the millennial – the "Me, Me, Me Generation" as the author called it – has received a lot of rebuke. Here's one by Annie Lowry, and here's one by Elspeth Reeve.

Well, considering how incredibly masturbatory and poorly written that original article is, it really does deserve to be ripped to shreds.

I can just picture some editor reading the first draft, nodding approvingly about how lazy the youngest generation is, then telling his unpaid college intern to fetch him another coffee, sort through his e-mail, do the initial proofreading, check the sources in the article and get it back on his desk in an hour and a half even though it's supposed to be said intern's lunchbreak while the editor catches up on his stock portfolio.

(no I'm not bitter at all)
 

Angry Fork

Member
Hearing Huckabee on the Obama impeachment shit is so fucking insane. He says literally the exact same shit people could say towards Bush/Powell/Cheney/Rumsfeld. "He willingly lied and deceived the public, people died because of this, at that point they lose the right to govern".

I don't understand how nobody in the media is throwing that back at fox news and republicans. The level of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance needed for this has reached levels that truly anger me.
 
Hearing Huckabee on the Obama impeachment shit is so fucking insane. He says literally the exact same shit people could say towards Bush/Powell/Cheney/Rumsfeld. "He willingly lied and deceived the public, people died because of this, at that point they lose the right to govern".

I don't understand how nobody in the media is throwing that back at fox news and republicans. The level of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance needed for this has reached levels that truly anger me.

Plus the youtube video lie didn't kill anyone. Four people died before the government/military could do anything. This "cover up" strikes me as nothing more than the White House (poorly) tip toeing around the CIA's involvement in Libya, and republicans taking advantage of the silence by spreading FUD.

It's not like...you know, lying to start a war and getting people killed.
 

Karakand

Member
Well, considering how incredibly masturbatory and poorly written that original article is, it really does deserve to be ripped to shreds.

I can just picture some editor reading the first draft, nodding approvingly about how lazy the youngest generation is, then telling his unpaid college intern to fetch him another coffee, sort through his e-mail, do the initial proofreading, check the sources in the article and get it back on his desk in an hour and a half even though it's supposed to be said intern's lunchbreak while the editor catches up on his stock portfolio.

(no I'm not bitter at all)

I'm not one for generational politics, but I was in stitches when that NYT article said Boomers thought their most unique quality was their work ethic.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
Hearing Huckabee on the Obama impeachment shit is so fucking insane. He says literally the exact same shit people could say towards Bush/Powell/Cheney/Rumsfeld. "He willingly lied and deceived the public, people died because of this, at that point they lose the right to govern".

I don't understand how nobody in the media is throwing that back at fox news and republicans. The level of hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance needed for this has reached levels that truly anger me.
I honestly think other news organizations are afraid of Fox and don't ever want to call them out on their shit. Fox knows they have free reign.
 
I feel a little bad about posting a lot of links today, but this Time piece about the millennial – the "Me, Me, Me Generation" as the author called it – has received a lot of rebuke. Here's one by Annie Lowry, and here's one by Elspeth Reeve.


It annoyes me when the "American Dream" is paraded around as if a family and successful career aren't wanted everywhere else.

The Five.

They always deliver.
Fox's Bolling: Had It Been Sasha Or Malia Obama Who Died In Benghazi, Wouldn't We "Be Asking Different Questions?"

You fuckwits would be like, why are we paying for the President's kids travel expenses?

What is the rights obsession with their kids? The NRA, their vactions, etc.
 
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