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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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J

jamesinclair

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
Actually was thinking, if GOP hadn't shutdown the government, the OC issues today would have been main stories everywhere (you know it). GOP missed the chance to capitalize on any perceived issues.
Click to expand...

Good point

"Obamacare arrives to broken websites, crushed dreams"

Instead that news is relegated to A8, right next to the article on the neogaf crash
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Such cheap but easy points to make a big deal out of the website crashes. Like okay this would be a real catastrophe if people only had a week to sign up lol.

"High volume of traffic crashed the servers? UNBELIEVABLE!"

It's the GTA V syndrome.
I wish that fricken online part would work already, dammit Lamar.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
kingkitty said:
Such cheap but easy points to make a big deal out of the website crashes. Like okay this would be a real catastrophe if people only had like a week to sign up lol.
Click to expand...

I was watching Chris Hayes tonight and he was talking to a physican also part of Brookings (and part of making the law) who said her #1 question from her town halls of uninsured people were if today was the only day to sign up.

A lot of people don't know that they have 3 months to sign up for it to kick in on Jan 1st and another 3 months to sign up to avoid penalty.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
btw saw a tweet allegedly 7.5 million people signed up on the exchanges today. That seems ridiculously high to me, trying to find a more reputable source.
 
K

kingkitty

Member
Black Mamba said:
I was watching Chris Hayes tonight and he was talking to a physican also part of Brookings (and part of making the law) who said her #1 question from her town halls of uninsured people were if today was the only day to sign up.
Click to expand...

I wish more Americans googled the internet better.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
kingkitty said:
I wish more Americans googled the internet better.
Click to expand...
Had someone on my Facebook feed bitching about the quotes being awful and all from one insurer. Turns out he was on a site that was one letter off of the exchange URL and it was fake. After I suggested he make sure he was on the official state exchange site he redacted his comments and warned others.

Even seasoned googles can run into FUD easily unfortunately.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
PhoenixPause said:
btw saw a tweet allegedly 7.5 million people signed up on the exchanges today. That seems ridiculously high to me, trying to find a more reputable source.
Click to expand...

Based on how things were tracking today, that's almost certainly the total number of site hits. IIRC they're expecting ~6m to sign up before the end of the year. Though that seems like a conservative figure given the interest (partly thanks to all the free publicity the GOP gave it).
 
J

Jooney

Member
Only people with an anti-ACA agenda would have a problem with the healthcare.gov failure and glitches today. Anyone who has ever been on a ticketek website to purchase concert or sports tickets has been through this experience before.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Jooney said:
Only people with an anti-ACA agenda would have a problem with the healthcare.gov failure and glitches today. Anyone who has ever been on a ticketek website to purchase concert or sports tickets has been through this experience before.
Click to expand...

Anyone who's ever tried to go to the San Diego Comic Con has been through this experience before
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
As the above map, detailing the geography of the suicide caucus, shows, half of these districts are concentrated in the South, and a quarter of them are in the Midwest, while there’s a smattering of thirteen in the rural West and four in rural Pennsylvania (outside the population centers of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh). Naturally, there are no members from New England, the megalopolis corridor from Washington to Boston, or along the Pacific coastline.

These eighty members represent just eighteen per cent of the House and just a third of the two hundred and thirty-three House Republicans. They were elected with fourteen and a half million of the hundred and eighteen million votes cast in House elections last November, or twelve per cent of the total. In all, they represent fifty-eight million constituents. That may sound like a lot, but it’s just eighteen per cent of the population.

Most of the members of the suicide caucus have districts very similar to Meadows’s. While the most salient demographic fact about America is that it is becoming more diverse, Republican districts actually became less diverse in 2012. According to figures compiled by The Cook Political Report’s David Wasserman, a leading expert on House demographics who provided me with most of the raw data I’ve used here, the average House Republican district became two percentage points more white in 2012.

The members of the suicide caucus live in a different America from the one that most political commentators describe when talking about how the country is transforming. The average suicide-caucus district is seventy-five per cent white, while the average House district is sixty-three per cent white. Latinos make up an average of nine per cent of suicide-district residents, while the over-all average is seventeen per cent. The districts also have slightly lower levels of education (twenty-five per cent of the population in suicide districts have college degrees, while that number is twenty-nine per cent for the average district).

The members themselves represent this lack of diversity. Seventy-six of the members who signed the Meadows letter are male. Seventy-nine of them are white.

As with Meadows, the other suicide-caucus members live in places where the national election results seem like an anomaly. Obama defeated Romney by four points nationally. But in the eighty suicide-caucus districts, Obama lost to Romney by an average of twenty-three points. The Republican members themselves did even better. In these eighty districts, the average margin of victory for the Republican candidate was thirty-four points.

In short, these eighty members represent an America where the population is getting whiter, where there are few major cities, where Obama lost the last election in a landslide, and where the Republican Party is becoming more dominant and more popular. Meanwhile, in national politics, each of these trends is actually reversed.
Click to expand...
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...efund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

GOOD GOD.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
WASHINGTON -- If and when the federal government reopens for business, congressional lawmakers will have to decide whether or not to retroactively pay federal workers for the time they were out of work. So far, Republicans appear split on the question of back pay for furloughed civil servants -- even though members of Congress are guaranteed to get paid regardless.

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said she would support such a measure. "They're being furloughed for no fault of their own, and this is very poor policy," she said.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) agreed. "Oh, of course," he said when asked by HuffPost if he would support back pay legislation. "Why penalize these good people for our malfeasance?"

The Arizona Republican even predicted that it wouldn't be too difficult to get a bill retroactively paying federal workers through Congress.

But some of McCain's colleagues weren't so sure federal workers should be made whole for their lost time.

"I think it's way too early to even consider that, but again we're $7 trillion more in the hole now than we were [in 1995-1996]," said Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.). "It makes it that much more difficult."

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) also raised the issue of the national debt, signaling what might prevent many Republicans from getting on board.

"I think there would be less chance of that now considering the great big budget deficit we have now," Grassley said. "We're in a much worse situation."

So how would he vote if a measure were brought to floor to back pay federal employees?

"I would not make a judgment at this point," Grassley responded.

Sens. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.) also said it was too early for them to make a determination, while Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) said he "probably" would support the move.

Back pay for furlough days requires an act of Congress once a shutdown ends. During the last shutdown, in 1995 and 1996, lawmakers decided to pay workers after the fact. But with a Congress that's focused on deficit reduction -- and that's already furloughed many workers this year through the automatic budget cuts known as sequestration -- plenty of federal employees are bracing themselves for a rebuff from lawmakers.
Click to expand...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-pay_n_4025437.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037

Evil. These people are evil.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Black Mamba said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-pay_n_4025437.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037

Evil. These people are evil.
Click to expand...

Can't pay people for their labour because of the federal debt? Yet they found no qualms with not paying for:
- two massive tax cuts
- two wars
- prescription drug program
- massive new federal bureaucracy (DHS)

I keep saying it: the federal debt is a whacking tool used by the party out of power to get back into power. They don't care.

EDIT: they should show solidarity with their federal worker cohort by not paying themselves either.

EDIT 2: Hopefully some idiot decides to append this to the CR bill. "Why won't the President pass this CR bill to pay the federal workers?"

EDIT 3: Not paying federal workers has to be a violation of the 13th amendment (involuntary servitude)
 
J

Jooney

Member
"Americans' transition to democracy will be long and hard as they struggle to build functioning democratic institutions."

LMAO.

Sorry, my American friends
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/opinion/friedman-our-democracy-is-at-stake.html?hp

This time is different. What is at stake in this government shutdown forced by a radical Tea Party minority is nothing less than the principle upon which our democracy is based: majority rule. President Obama must not give in to this hostage taking — not just because Obamacare is at stake, but because the future of how we govern ourselves is at stake.
Click to expand...

If democracy means anything, it means that, if you are outvoted, you accept the results and prepare for the next election. Republicans are refusing to do that. It shows contempt for the democratic process.

President Obama is not defending health care. He’s defending the health of our democracy. Every American who cherishes that should stand with him
Click to expand...

This is why Obama will not negotiate
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Jooney said:
Can't pay people for their labour because of the federal debt? Yet they found no qualms with not paying for:
- two massive tax cuts
- two wars
- prescription drug program
- massive new federal bureaucracy (DHS)

I keep saying it: the federal debt is a whacking tool used by the party out of power to get back into power. They don't care.

EDIT: they should show solidarity with their federal worker cohort by not paying themselves either.

EDIT 2: Hopefully some idiot decides to append this to the CR bill. "Why won't the President pass this CR bill to pay the federal workers?"

EDIT 3: Not paying federal workers has to be a violation of the 13th amendment (involuntary servitude)
Click to expand...

It's not involuntary servitude, these are the guys furloughed. That means they're not working at all.

The guys working but not receiving a paycheck will get their back pay without a bill.
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Black Mamba said:
It's not involuntary servitude, these are the guys furloughed. That means they're not working at all.

The guys working but not receiving a paycheck will get their back pay without a bill.
Click to expand...

wait, if that's the case, then eh, they shudn't get paid. they didn't work. sure, it's because of their superiors, but that's teh same as regular companies telling workers to not come into work for 3 days out of the week and not pay them because the company's run into a budget issue.
 
D

Devolution

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
wait, if that's the case, then eh, they shudn't get paid. they didn't work. sure, it's because of their superiors, but that's teh same as regular companies telling workers to not come into work for 3 days out of the week and not pay them because the company's run into a budget issue.
Click to expand...

Uh, no, they should get paid. There is no "budget issue", there's just an asshole issue.
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Devolution said:
This is just asinine. So if the shutdown is for a fairly long time they should just be fucked out of their earnings?
Click to expand...

replace the government with a private business and shutdown with a washed out flooded road. both actions beyond their control that prevents them from working.

now answer your own question.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
wait, if that's the case, then eh, they shudn't get paid. they didn't work. sure, it's because of their superiors, but that's teh same as regular companies telling workers to not come into work for 3 days out of the week and not pay them because the company's run into a budget issue.
Click to expand...

They would be working if the Tea Party wasn't holding their jobs hostage.

Fuck that noise.

replace the government with a private business
Click to expand...

In a private business, the Tea Party Assholes would have been removed from the Board and business would have never closed.

Are you being fucking serious, here? So we're just going to let janitors and secretaries and whoever else out to dry on a long shutdown from the gov't because one minority of a minority party can't get its way? I don't give a flying fuck if they aren't working. They didn't ask to go on vacation. There's no justification for them not to be working. As Devo said, it's because of assholes.

The gov't broke its duty to its workers by shutting down. They are responsible for their back pay. Anything else is fucking evil.
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
Devolution said:
Pretend we're in an alternate reality is your argument now? And if it was a private corporation the house republicans would be on the chopping block.
Click to expand...

now you're defecting the question. should ppl be paid for not being able to work, because of forces outside of their control? no. course not, they didn't work.

Black Mamba said:
They would be working if the Tea Party wasn't holding their jobs hostage.

Fuck that noise.



In a private business, the Tea Party Assholes would have been removed from the Board and business would have never closed.

Are you being fucking serious, here? So we're just going to let janitors and secretaries and whoever else out to dry on a long shutdown from the gov't because one minority of a minority party can't get its way? I don't give a flying fuck if they aren't working. They didn't ask to go on vacation. There's no justification for them not to be working. As Devo said, it's because of assholes.

The gov't broke its duty to its workers by shutting down. They are responsible for their back pay. Anything else is fucking evil.
Click to expand...

why are we bringing the tea party into this? the shutdown happens because of forces outside of the workers control. doesn't matter what the forces are, all that it matters is that they workers can't go to work. so as if a road has flooded. should they be paid? no.

i dunno why you're bringing so much emo into this.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Boom Boom Pow said:
wait, if that's the case, then eh, they shudn't get paid. they didn't work. sure, it's because of their superiors, but that's teh same as regular companies telling workers to not come into work for 3 days out of the week and not pay them because the company's run into a budget issue.
Click to expand...

Do you have any fucking idea how dangerous some government jobs are? And you want them to risk their lives and not get back paid!?

Are you fucking kidding me?
 
I

Invisible_Insane

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
now you're defecting the question. should ppl be paid for not being able to work, because of forces outside of their control? no. course not, they didn't work.



why are we bringing the tea party into this? the shutdown happens because of forces outside of the workers control. doesn't matter what the forces are, all that it matters is that they workers can't go to work. so as if a road has flooded. should they be paid? no.

i dunno why you're bringing so much emo into this.
Click to expand...
Because you're bringing a fingers-stuffed-in-ears approach to causality. The analogy you are trying to generate is fundamentally unsound. Random acts of nature and the Republican intransigence that has produced this situation are not identical. They do not even lightly resemble each other.
 
D

Devolution

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
now you're defecting the question. should ppl be paid for not being able to work, because of forces outside of their control? no. course not, they didn't work.
Click to expand...

It's deflecting by the way. And what question? Also your comparisons are complete strawmen that have nothing to do with the situation.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Replace government jobs with private businesses? Then the Tea Partiers will never come to an agreement. Their utopia would be fulfilled...I'm only half joking with this. That's the scary part.

Also won't the government only be closed for like a few days? The longest ever recorded was three weeks. What kind of business will bother to go through so much overhead just for three weeks? And wouldn't we end up spending more money this way anyway just to initiate such a thing? Sounds like a typical right wing plan to save money and be fiscally responsible. Up there with welfare drug testing and private prisons.

TacticalFox88 said:
Do you have any fucking idea how dangerous some government jobs are? And you want them to risk their lives and not get back paid!?

Are you fucking kidding me?
Click to expand...

Of course. Don't they work for the public and the greater good instead of money?

They should suck it up and not get paid. Its their duty to the country!!!!!!!!!!
RwOwNin.gif
 
B

Boom Boom Pow

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
Do you have any fucking idea how dangerous some government jobs are? And you want them to risk their lives and not get back paid!?

Are you fucking kidding me?
Click to expand...

again, i don't know what's up with the strangly overreacting emotion. Did you not look at the quote chain?

The people that are GOING to work, will get paid, without needing an act of Congress, once the budget is supplied.

The people that are STAYING at home, not working, will need an act of Congress to get paid.

So what does dangerous of a job have to do anything? if those people are going to work during this shutdown, they will get paid. period.

Devolution said:
Seriously and the comparisons to the private sector? Heard of sick days? The fuck do you think those are.
Click to expand...

sure. And government workers don't? Last I check, they were getting about 4 weeks a year.
 
J

JCizzle

Member
Boom Boom Pow said:
now you're defecting the question. should ppl be paid for not being able to work, because of forces outside of their control? no. course not, they didn't work.



why are we bringing the tea party into this? the shutdown happens because of forces outside of the workers control. doesn't matter what the forces are, all that it matters is that they workers can't go to work. so as if a road has flooded. should they be paid? no.

i dunno why you're bringing so much emo into this.
Click to expand...

Yes, they should. What about salaried employees working for private businesses that are forced to close for a period of time due to natural disasters outside of employee control?
 
Angry Fork

Angry Fork

Member
Cloudy said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/opinion/friedman-our-democracy-is-at-stake.html?hp





This is why Obama will not negotiate
Click to expand...

I don't think it's necessarily right that everyone has to accept election results, but I think the main alternative should be protests/marches in the street. I think Egyptians not accepting Morsi's rule for example and striking/protesting was justified despite him winning democratically. The Occupy movement is entirely justified and should be supported as well, legitimate political change comes from below.

But in this case nothing like that is happening. It's representatives lying and claiming they represent x amount of people while those people aren't actually out there representing themselves. This is why there should be some form of direct democracy on at least major bills like this and everyone should be forced to vote or pay a fine.

Friedman is a cunt though and shouldn't be listened to anyway.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
East Lake said:
First black prez, now gay. Could he be the first woman too? At least this solves the muslim dilemma.
Click to expand...

Seems he didn't consider the possibility Obama is actually a secret gay Muslim living day to day as a secret gay fake Christian while masquerading as a straight atheist pretending to be straight Christian.
 
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