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[Tamanon]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rick-perry-implementing-obamacare-a-criminal-act

The Affordable Care Act has been branded as unconstitutional by many Republicans, but Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) ratcheted up the condemnation on Tuesday. Implementation of the 2010 health care law, Perry said, actually amounts to a "criminal act."

“If this health care law is forced upon this country, the young men and women in this audience are the ones who are really going to pay the price,” Perry said at a rally in Hasbrouch Heights, N.J. for Republican Senate hopeful Steve Lonegan, as quoted by the Star-Ledger. “And that, I will suggest to you, reaches to the point of being a felony toward them and their future. That is a criminal act, from my perspective, to put that type of burden on them, to mortgage their future like that. America cannot stand that. America cannot accept that.”

In today's episode of "Rick Perry doesn't understand the words he uses"(pretty shitty show, should be cancelled by 2016). Bonus points for not understanding that putting the burden on young people is the only way health insurance works.

 

[ridethepiggy]

I don't think it's necessarily right that everyone has to accept election results, but I think the main alternative should be protests/marches in the street. I think Egyptians not accepting Morsi's rule for example and striking/protesting was justified despite him winning democratically. The Occupy movement is entirely justified and should be supported as well, legitimate political change comes from below.

But in this case nothing like that is happening. It's representatives lying and claiming they represent x amount of people while those people aren't actually out there representing themselves. This is why there should be some form of direct democracy on at least major bills like this and everyone should be forced to vote or pay a fine.

Friedman is a cunt though and shouldn't be listened to anyway.

Forced to vote or fined? Please.

 

[Tamanon]

Some countries have mandatory voting. I don't necessarily agree with it, but for instance Ecuador makes everyone vote or you're not eligible for government benefits like healthcare.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Some countries have mandatory voting. I don't necessarily agree with it, but for instance Ecuador makes everyone vote or you're not eligible for government benefits like healthcare.

If we had mandatory voting, Congress would be unicameral.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Some countries have mandatory voting. I don't necessarily agree with it, but for instance Ecuador makes everyone vote or you're not eligible for government benefits like healthcare.

I know some countries do. I am against requiring someone to vote or face a fine/lose benefits. At the end of the day voting is something every eligible citizen should be able to do, pushed to do, but not forced to do.

 

[Crisco]

Do we have a government yet?

 

[Diablos]

Nope. Until Boehner grows a pair and realizes he is in trouble with the far right of his party regardless, we're stuck.

And considering relations between Reid and the GOP just got worse we have at least 1-2 weeks to go.

 

[Y2Kev]

I want to compare my health insurance I get from work to what's on the exchanges. The site is still down.

 

[Diablos]

I want to compare my health insurance I get from work to what's on the exchanges. The site is still down.

Me too. STOP DDOSING THE SITE BOEHNER

 

[Angry Fork]

Forced to vote or fined? Please.

I know some countries do. I am against requiring someone to vote or face a fine/lose benefits. At the end of the day voting is something every eligible citizen should be able to do, pushed to do, but not forced to do.

Yes, it would politicize everyone as it would require them to have an opinion and make a choice. Politics affects everything there's no reason it shouldn't be a requirement to participate. It would be no different than any other civic duty like taxes or jury duty and would benefit the country. There is no reason to be against it except Freedom™.

You'll find that most politicians would be against such a measure not because of any moral objection but because it would take power away from them and further limit the level of lobbying/influence (wouldn't go away completely obviously but would take much more effort).

 

[Jooney]

Forced to vote or fined? Please.

We have mandatory voting in Australia. If you don't vote, you pay a small fine. This has resulted in near-universal voting. The effects are a far more moderate body politic because the parties and the candidates have to appeal to a broad middle of voters, and not just the extremes of their base. I much prefer it to the American system.

I should also add that if a voter feels that none of the parties/candidates represents his interest, he can cast an invalid, or "donkey" vote, that doesn't violate his conscience.

 

[Diablos]

Haha, fined for not voting... ANY party that adopts that position would suffer dearly.

I personally do not care because I almost always vote, but I already know this idea would go over like a lead balloon nationwide. People would not want it.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

I want to compare my health insurance I get from work to what's on the exchanges. The site is still down.

It makes sense when you consider how much pent up demand there is for decent coverage. These exchanges are going to be hugely successful.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Yes, it would politicize everyone as it would require them to have an opinion and make a choice. Politics affects everything there's no reason it shouldn't be a requirement to participate. It would be no different than any other civic duty like taxes or jury duty and would benefit the country. There is no reason to be against it except Freedom™.

You'll find that most politicians would be against such a measure not because of any moral objection but because it would take power away from them and further limit the level of lobbying/influence (wouldn't go away completely obviously but would take much more effort).

I couldnt care less what politicians are against. Just because many if them are against it doesn't mean you should be for it. And yes, freedom is one aspect, another is it would hurt the poor most since many of them don't vote, don't have time to pay attention to politics, and simply couldnt care less and that is their right. We should make sure every eligible voter is able to vote but never should we force it.

 

[Diablos]

It makes sense when you consider how much pent up demand there is for decent coverage. These exchanges are going to be hugely successful.

Unless the mandate gets delayed for a year and then BAM +20% premiums

We are in uncharted territory.

 

[Angry Fork]

I couldnt care less what politicians are against. Just because many if them are against it doesn't mean you should be for it. And yes, freedom is one aspect, another is it would hurt the poor most since many of them don't vote, don't have time to pay attention to politics, and simply couldnt care less and that is their right. We should make sure every eligible voter is able to vote but never should we force it.

That isn't why I'm for it, it's just important to note. As for the poor, it's the ruling classes wet dream to live in a world where it's the ''right'' of the poor to continue to live de-politicized and marginalized. Freedom for those who can afford it indeed.

The wealthy take great advantage of the fact that the poor and working class are apathetic, hopeless and feel disinterested in politics. The less turnout there is the more they feed on all of us. Your argument is the same libertarians use on taxes. We should 'encourage' people to give to others, but not force them to.

 

[ridethepiggy]

That isn't why I'm for it, it's just important to note. As for the poor, it's the ruling classes wet dream to live in a world where it's the ''right'' of the poor to continue to live de-politicized and marginalized. Freedom for those who can afford it indeed. The wealthy take great advantage of the fact that the poor and working class are apathetic, hopeless and feel disinterested in politics.

So you prefer to take advantage of them for being too busy to educate themselves about politics and/or apathetic? Sounds great. Perhaps you should be more in favor of using a carrot instead of a damn fine.

 

[Diablos]

I think instead of forcing people to vote, midterm and Presidential elections should be a paid holiday nationwide. No one works, no one is in school. No excuses. Higher turnout.

 

[Angry Fork]

So you prefer to take advantage of them for being too busy to educate themselves about politics and/or apathetic? Sounds great. Perhaps you should be more in favor of using a carrot instead of a damn fine.

Take advantage? What are you talking about. I honestly don't know what your argument against it is, you keep saying it's not right without explaining why. Freedom™ doesn't count as there are many things the government forces on people for the good of society, and this isn't eugenics or forced abortions.

It could be a federal holiday, you give people up to a month to send in ballot through the mail beforehand and allow people to do it online as well. Is Obamacare bad for the poor now too because they're forced to get insurance and spend 20 minutes on a website?

 

[Jooney]

I think that the idea of individual liberty is too ingrained in the American psyche to force mandatory voting.

But at the very least, you could do the following to increase voter turnout and protect the integrity of the system:
- move election day to a Saturday or make it a public holiday
- set federal guidelines for voting practices and systems, including type of ballot forms, voting machine systems, early and absentee voting procedures
- states can expand on voting provisions but must adhere to the baseline standards set by the federal government
- investigate online voting systems

But of course most of this is a pipedream in the current political climate. We have one party that recognises expanded voting is bad for them and therefore seeks to reduce voting on a state-by-state basis.

 

[Mario]

Michele Bachmann on Fox News -

"We're trying to solve problems. This isn't political."
"This President can't have the idea that everything should just be his way"

 

[pigeon]

now you're defecting the question. should ppl be paid for not being able to work, because of forces outside of their control? no. course not, they didn't work.

This is nonsense. People who can't work because of forces outside their control get paid all the time -- worker's comp and short-term disability are the standout example here. The natural disaster example is also pretty hilarious because people who can't work because of natural disasters receive federal assistance!

But even putting that aside, the problem is that your question is poorly framed. The real question is "should people be paid for not being able to work because of malfeasance from the people at the top that shuts the company down?" Now, admittedly, we don't pay people for that. But I think there's pretty clearly a moral suggestion that we ought to if we could. In this situation, we can.

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 29m
hello from House. met w/ some members near chamber. heard some interesting explanations re: Boehner's strategy. In short, the Ryan factor

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 28m
will do a post on this soon. basic pt-Ryan is telling friends in conf he wants a big debt limit push for fiscal concessions

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 28m
why this matters: Boehner listens to Ryan, and if Ryan is angling to lead/craft debt-limit budget deal, Boehner takes it seriously...

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 27m
and Boehner may feel more comfortable letting shutdown extend to next wk, when debt-limit talks are expected to start as impasse continues

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 24m
Fyi: House will have two series of votes today (1:30 and 5:30) and a GOP conference mtg is expected, time TBD

---

Fan-fucking-tastic. Paul Ryan acting like he won the election.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Take advantage? What are you talking about. I honestly don't know what your argument against it is, you keep saying it's not right without explaining why. Freedom™ doesn't count as there are many things the government forces on people for the good of society, and this isn't eugenics or forced abortions.

It could be a federal holiday, you give people up to a month to send in ballot through the mail beforehand and allow people to do it online as well. Is Obamacare bad for the poor now too because they're forced to get insurance and spend 20 minutes on a website?

Just because the govt forces one thing doesnt mean they should force this. Want to encourage people to vote? I'm all for it. Force them? No. And in terms of the ACA reading your previous statements about the law I know it's a waste to gst into it with you.

 

[Jooney]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 29m
hello from House. met w/ some members near chamber. heard some interesting explanations re: Boehner's strategy. In short, the Ryan factor

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 28m
will do a post on this soon. basic pt-Ryan is telling friends in conf he wants a big debt limit push for fiscal concessions

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 28m
why this matters: Boehner listens to Ryan, and if Ryan is angling to lead/craft debt-limit budget deal, Boehner takes it seriously...

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 27m
and Boehner may feel more comfortable letting shutdown extend to next wk, when debt-limit talks are expected to start as impasse continues

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 24m
Fyi: House will have two series of votes today (1:30 and 5:30) and a GOP conference mtg is expected, time TBD

---

Fan-fucking-tastic. Paul Ryan acting like he won the election.

GOP attempting to normalise behaviour that allows them to extract legislative gains through standard budgetary processes. Fuck that noise. If they want to pass legislation, then win a majority with a mandate to govern.

Bams better call their bluff on the debt ceiling.

 

[mightynine]

Michele Bachmann on Fox News -

"We're trying to solve problems. This isn't political."
"This President can't have the idea that everything should just be his way"

The GOP Pocket Universe is an amazing thing to behold.

Trust me, I work at a conservative talk radio station. (I don't listen to it, mind you...)

 

[pigeon]

GOP attempting to normalise behaviour that allows them to extract legislative gains through standard budgetary processes. Fuck that noise. If they want to pass legislation, then win a majority with a mandate to govern.

Bams better call their bluff on the debt ceiling.

I'm really starting to hope that Obama has a backup plan here. If not the coin, the 14th amendment.

 

[TacticalFox88]

How do people this fucking stupid even FUNCTION in day-to-day life. I mean holy fuck.

 

[Diablos]

GOP attempting to normalise behaviour that allows them to extract legislative gains through standard budgetary processes. Fuck that noise. If they want to pass legislation, then win a majority with a mandate to govern.

Bams better call their bluff on the debt ceiling.

Dude, did you see the ransom note they came up with? It's more than just calling their bluff...

If Obama isn't prepared for that he better use the 14th Amendment or else he will have to cave.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm really starting to hope that Obama has a backup plan here. If not the coin, the 14th amendment.

Why? I have yet to see anything to suggest Boehner will destroy the world economy over 30-40 house members giving him shit. The government shutdown is small ball compared to that, and he knows it. And as I have said a million times, he already told his golf buddies on Wall Street that he won't allow a default.

 

[Diablos]

Why? I have yet to see anything to suggest Boehner will destroy the world economy over 30-40 house members giving him shit. The government shutdown is small ball compared to that, and he knows it. And as I have said a million times, he already told his golf buddies on Wall Street that he won't allow a default.

It could grow even higher from 30-40 the longer this continues and the more pressure the Republicans get from the loon sect of their party. Barely anyone backed up Peter King before the shutdown occured. He had, what, 7 at that point stepping out from behind the shadows. No one has any resolve in the party except for the crazies.

13 have now formally stated that they are jumping ship, but we need at least 17 and even then will Boehner even come around? Highly unlikely.

 

[Mike M]

I'm really starting to hope that Obama has a backup plan here. If not the coin, the 14th amendment.

The coin thing will never happen, as was explained in detail with the last go-round of this. Yes, they have the authority to mint the coin, but there's a whole rigamarole dealing with the design of the coin's face needing senate approval or something. Plus the time it takes to design and manufacture the die, etc.

It's 14th amendment or bust.

 

[Diablos]

It's 14th amendment or bust.

Yep.

Boehner told Wall Street he wouldn't allow default, just like he told Peter King "I've got this" and then proceeded to do fuck all.

 

[mightynine]

Why? I have yet to see anything to suggest Boehner will destroy the world economy over 30-40 house members giving him shit. The government shutdown is small ball compared to that, and he knows it. And as I have said a million times, he already told his golf buddies on Wall Street that he won't allow a default.

I sure hope he finished his talk with his golf buddies by saying "....well, that's what Paul Ryan tells me, at least. Now watch this drive." (ball slices wildly to right, Boehner cries, loses speakership of 19th hole)

 

[Bishman]

If anyone tells me that they are a Republican, I can't respect you. They are the biggest idiots I've seen in my life time.

 

[Diablos]

I'm really starting to hope that Obama has a backup plan here. If not the coin, the 14th amendment.

Starting to worry a bit, pigeon?

 

[Invisible_Insane]

The GOP Pocket Universe is an amazing thing to behold.

Trust me, I work at a conservative talk radio station. (I don't listen to it, mind you...)

You, sir, have more mental fortitude than I could ever hope to and I salute you.

 

[The Librarian]

Starting to worry a bit, pigeon?

You are very annoying.

 

[Diablos]

You are very annoying.

When I got annoyed with your posts, I put you on ignore for several days instead of announcing it to the world.

 

[Jooney]

Why? I have yet to see anything to suggest Boehner will destroy the world economy over 30-40 house members giving him shit. The government shutdown is small ball compared to that, and he knows it. And as I have said a million times, he already told his golf buddies on Wall Street that he won't allow a default.

PD is right ... But just to play Diablos Advocate (TM): Boehner also said that Obamacare was the law of the land.

 

[Diablos]

PD is right ... But just to play Diablos Advocate (TM): Boehner also said that Obamacare was the law of the land.

And defunding/delaying has nothing to do with keeping it from being that.

It sure can help premiums skyrocket and make the law a turd, which is exactly what they want.

 

[Jooney]

And defunding/delaying has nothing to do with keeping it from being that.

It sure can help premiums skyrocket and make the law a turd, which is exactly what they want.

Why are you ignoring all the repeal votes post 2012? Boehner clearly flipped from his statement.

 

[Wilsongt]

The 2012 Election Poll Unskewer thinks Pres Obama is "actually gay":

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/unskewedpolls-founder-barack-obama-is-actually-gay

I cringed when I saw his picture. Ew

 

[Diablos]

Why are you ignoring all the repeal votes post 2012? Boehner clearly flipped from his statement.

I'm not ignoring them.

 

[RoninChaos]

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...efund-obamacare-suicide-caucus-geography.html

GOOD GOD.

Goes back to what I said a few months ago. They've gerrymandered themselves into a corner and it's going to do nothing but damage the country.

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
So the 3 votes that failed yesterday? They're coming back up today in the House, just via a different legislative vehicle

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
No hope for clean CR and Reid stance makes Ryan rise as player who then helps craft combo CR/debt limit budget deal

--

wtf

Goes back to what I said a few months ago. They've gerrymandered themselves into a corner and it's going to do nothing but damage the country.

You know, I almost refuse to believe they are smooth sailing until 2020. Depending on how long this plays out and how the public reacts to their tactics it could end up backfiring on the GOP in a huge way. The extra gerrymandering since 2010 has not been that significant -- iirc it gave them a net gain of 7 or so seats.

 

[ivysaur12]

Apparently in Russia, they're calling this an "elephant shutdown."

 

[Teggy]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
So the 3 votes that failed yesterday? They're coming back up today in the House, just via a different legislative vehicle

--

wtf

This was already stated yesterday. They will only need a majority vote to pass, so it will rely on Senate or veto to kill them.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

The GOP Pocket Universe is an amazing thing to behold.

Trust me, I work at a conservative talk radio station. (I don't listen to it, mind you...)

At my old job, there was this guy that I worked with that used play nothing but AM talk radio.

It often reminded me why I'll never vote Republican.

 

[PhoenixDark]

The minority party could use a Motion to Recommit today, based on the votes the House will be doing. Democrats could put a clean CR on the floor.