-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
- Status
Sure.
The debt ceiling is a limit on how much the government itself can lend. The amount of money the government spends is determined by Congress to begin with. In effect, voting on the debt ceiling is voting for the budget a second time, or rather, voting to pay the bill you've already racked up via the budget.
I really do not understand how Boehner will lose his job next year. Isn't his district pretty mainstream GOP and not Tea Party? I have no idea. But it seems like it has worried Boehner enough and so that's all that matters.
Calling it now: Clean CR will be impossible, Dems will have to end up getting get rid of the medical device tax. And you know what? In December that'll give them an opportunity to strip away the individual mandate or go with the Vitter Amendment, because you know they're going to try this shit again. And again. And again.
If he brings it to the floor they will end him? Well, Boehner should man up and just do that, because, again, I can't see how the Tea Party could oust him from being Speaker. They'd have to get Democrats to go along with their vote. House Dems are smart enough to realize the Tea Party's desired replacement would be to the right of Boehner which is just pure madness. I realize Boehner will have a tough primary fight on his hands in 2014 potentially, but, he may already by simply being viewed as one of the key people who shut down the government.
So, grow a pair and deal with the consequences later, Boehner. DEAL WITH IT.
Calling it now: Clean CR will be impossible, Dems will have to end up getting get rid of the medical device tax. And you know what? In December that'll give them an opportunity to strip away the individual mandate or go with the Vitter Amendment, because you know they're going to try this shit again. And again. And again.
If he brings it to the floor they will end him? Well, Boehner should man up and just do that, because, again, I can't see how the Tea Party could oust him from being Speaker. They'd have to get Democrats to go along with their vote. House Dems are smart enough to realize the Tea Party's desired replacement would be to the right of Boehner which is just pure madness. I realize Boehner will have a tough primary fight on his hands in 2014 potentially, but, he may already by simply being viewed as one of the key people who shut down the government.
So, grow a pair and deal with the consequences later, Boehner. DEAL WITH IT.
zero shift
Banned
Why even have this as a vote?
Yeah I already watched this. Debt doesn't matter, government is ran like a business and even if it was you lose money to make Marty Mcfly Hoverboards. Great video though.
Nope. As each day goes by you'll find more pressure being put on the republicans to present a clean CR bill. Note that the only fissuring is happening within GOP ranks. I haven't heard of democrats asking their leadership to compromise.
Exactly. Now you're catching on.
---
No surprises that the NY Times Editorial Board went after Boehner and the GOP. This particular section got me though
I had no idea about that detail about the conference committee. Clown shoes.
This is a strange day. The House is failing to pass bills because they require a 2/3 vote while the Senate is knocking things down with a straight majority.
Is this real life?
(I know ther rules behind how we got here, it's just hilarious and strange.)
Because they got Democrats to concede in the interest of bi-partisanship while giving nothing back in return in 2009, then were further rewarded for that behavior in the 2010 House elections, then continued an obstructionist/extortionist strategy which has blocked or massively slowed down the Democratic and Presidential agenda at almost every turn. Then throw in a disproportionately vocal part of their base telling them they are doing the right thing, and threatens to primary them if they stray from such a path.
Easy to see why they'd think to continue such a strategy.
They'll continue living in the bubble until it bursts. We might be close to that.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
He's worried about losing the speakership. He can still be in congress and not be the speaker.
zero shift
Banned
It was a comment not a question.
RustyNails
Member
Is Steve King unequivocally the worst congressman in history?
The Librarian
Banned
Hence the question mark?
theprodigy
Member
As I go on to say, while Boehner may be scared of that, realistically GOPers would have to break the Hastert rule to replace him -- their nominee also has to be known -- so if it is a Tea Party lunatic the Democrats won't go along with it anyway.
Is Boehner even thinking that through?
I know, this entire thing is crazy as hell.
I'm a little shocked all the Dems are standing together, normally getting a bunch of them to agree on something is like trying to herd cats. Meanwhile the GOP is fracturing, when normally they are of one singular voice. Everything is topsy-turvey.
zero shift
Banned
I should have put, "Why do they even have this!?"
I admit that it was my fault. I am sorry. I got to work on my posting ability.
On Point is easily the worst NPR call-in show. The host is an idiot.
What are the good ones? I used to listen to Talk of the Nation and It's All Politics, but they have both shut down. #obama #HarryReidsShutDown
---
The GOP using the WWII vets wanting to visit the memorial but unable to because of the shutdown is hilarious. And disgusting.
j_k_redtail
Member
In light of this I suspect that the shutdown will last until Oct 16th at the latest, just before the debt ceiling is set to expire. It's becoming increasingly clear that barring a disaster, the Democrats and the President are not going to cave. At that point Boehner will have to pass a clean CR and a debt ceiling hike with Democratic votes.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
They don't want to risk alienating half of their audience.
Holy shit do I think major network for-profit news is a terrible idea.
Fenderputty
Banned
I had not seen this. I'm saving to send to friends when the next battle begins. Thanks.
The Librarian
Banned
holy fucking shit
Three bills failed in the House today.
Then Josh Marshall tweeted this:
Three bills failed in the House today.
House Republicans on Tuesday evening failed to muster the two-thirds majority needed to pass a series of three partial government finding bills.
The three bills -- to fund veterans benefits, national parks and the District of Columbia -- were designed to increase pressure on Senate Democrats to resolve the government shutdown by making them take politically uncomfortable votes against funding popular government services.
The failure of the three bills -- a key portion of the House GOP's government shutdown strategy that emerged earlier in the day Tuesday -- adds additional uncertainty to a way out of the current impasse.
The vote on the veterans affairs bill was 264 to 165, on the District of Columbia bill was 265 to 163, and on the national parks and museums bill was 252 to 176. All three proposals needed a two thirds majority of the chamber to pass.
The failure of the three measures is an ironic twist in Congress's struggle with funding the government. The votes were designed as a trap for Democrats. House Republicans decided in a closed-door meeting on Tuesday afternoon that they would try to fund the government through piecemeal continuing resolutions.
The failure of the three resolutions are also specifically a defeat for Sens. Ted Cruz (R-TX) and Mike Lee (R-UT), who took credit for the plan earlier on Tuesday, shortly after the House GOP announced that it was moving forward with the proposals.
In a speech on the Senate floor, Lee said he wanted Congress to fund certain parts of the federal government but not Obamacare.
"My plan, in other words, would involve setting up segmented continuing resolutions, appropriations measures that would keep the funding going at current levels to various areas with government," Lee said during the speech. Let's leave Obamacare for another day and not hold the vast majority of government functions hostage when the vast majority of government functions don't have anything to do with the implementation of Obamacare."
Similarly, Cruz's office said the votes were rooted in an idea Cruz suggested days earlier.
The three bills -- to fund veterans benefits, national parks and the District of Columbia -- were designed to increase pressure on Senate Democrats to resolve the government shutdown by making them take politically uncomfortable votes against funding popular government services.
The failure of the three bills -- a key portion of the House GOP's government shutdown strategy that emerged earlier in the day Tuesday -- adds additional uncertainty to a way out of the current impasse.
The vote on the veterans affairs bill was 264 to 165, on the District of Columbia bill was 265 to 163, and on the national parks and museums bill was 252 to 176. All three proposals needed a two thirds majority of the chamber to pass.
The failure of the three measures is an ironic twist in Congress's struggle with funding the government. The votes were designed as a trap for Democrats. House Republicans decided in a closed-door meeting on Tuesday afternoon that they would try to fund the government through piecemeal continuing resolutions.
The failure of the three resolutions are also specifically a defeat for Sens. Ted Cruz (R-TX) and Mike Lee (R-UT), who took credit for the plan earlier on Tuesday, shortly after the House GOP announced that it was moving forward with the proposals.
In a speech on the Senate floor, Lee said he wanted Congress to fund certain parts of the federal government but not Obamacare.
"My plan, in other words, would involve setting up segmented continuing resolutions, appropriations measures that would keep the funding going at current levels to various areas with government," Lee said during the speech. Let's leave Obamacare for another day and not hold the vast majority of government functions hostage when the vast majority of government functions don't have anything to do with the implementation of Obamacare."
Similarly, Cruz's office said the votes were rooted in an idea Cruz suggested days earlier.
Then Josh Marshall tweeted this:
Good God...
theprodigy
Member
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Congress authorizes both spending and payment for spending. They did the first part of it and now they're refusing to do the second part. But here's the thing: its actually illegal for the money allocated for the first part not to be spent. Congress allocated that money knowing full well that doing so would require a raising of the debt ceiling.
EDIT: beaten
InsaneZero
Member
NeoGAF crashing, the government shutting down, and the House failing to pass their own traps.
Three events. Half Life 3.
It's all a marketing ploy by Valve.
Three events. Half Life 3.
It's all a marketing ploy by Valve.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Watching some of the speeches on the floor, Jaoquin Castro is a lot more impressive to me than his twin brother. I've felt that way for a couple years.
I know gaf needs more conservatives because it's a neutral ground where facts and evidence, presented within the confines of civil, inclusive discourse, prevail through careful moderation, but then you go look and it's dudes wondering why the Dems didn't compromise with republicans when they had majorities in each branch.
http://isthegovernmentopen.com/
Someone posted this in the shut down thread, it's a lot better than the standard isthe____.com thing.
Someone posted this in the shut down thread, it's a lot better than the standard isthe____.com thing.
jamesinclair
Banned
The GOP Might Lose the Shutdown Battle, but It's Already Won the Spending War
I'm not saying the GOP is smart enough to 11 dimensional chess that shit, I'm saying the Democrats has lost a game of tic-tac-toe against John fucking Boehner.
But teh optics!!!
That's what I've been saying, the dems started their argument on the far right, again, and are being asked to compromise from there.
They need to flip the tables.
If the gop wants to reopen the government, they must approve a 200bn infrastructure stimulus
ElectricThunder
Member
This whole damn thing is nigh unto the biggest mess I've ever beheld, what a waste, and only primed to get worse at this rate come all that Mid-October Fun.
The smug, self-assured, entirely naive/myopic Libertarian'ish celebrations and finger-wagging across the lot of the web is just insane---the gravity of the situation in the short to long term is entirely lost on them to the fiction they've built up in their little echo chambers.
The smug, self-assured, entirely naive/myopic Libertarian'ish celebrations and finger-wagging across the lot of the web is just insane---the gravity of the situation in the short to long term is entirely lost on them to the fiction they've built up in their little echo chambers.
What?
In todays segment that makes you want to jump off a bridge, Jimmy Kimmel did a segment where he asked people if they liked Obamacare of the Affordable Care Act better.
Face, prepare to meet Palm.
Face, prepare to meet Palm.
RustyNails
Member
I've seen a bunch of interviews from democratic House members and they all say that Teaparty members are all smug and congratulating themselves over the shutdown.
We're in for the long haul.
We're in for the long haul.
Black Mamba
Member
I don't even understand why boehner even wants the speakership at this point. If he has no control to do anything and without a concession he cannot get he loses the job anyway, why not just shit on the guys trying to fuck you over?
Pass the cr, raise the debt limit, and wank it in front of Ted Cruz.
Pass the cr, raise the debt limit, and wank it in front of Ted Cruz.
Well, he'll probably make a great defense lobbyist.
Once you taste power you don't want to lose it.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
It's so ironic that conservatives are empowering the minority and Pelosi by doing all of this
j_k_redtail
Member
That's an easy one. Some people love power and position. This is John Boehner's vice.
Remember: this weak, ineffectual Speaker - who cares about his gavel more than the well-being of his country, who tried to convince the Tea Party that he was willing to sell out his staff at their request (but was lying to them about it) - this is the man who would become president in the event of disaster that incapacitated both Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
Fenderputty
Banned
I was saying this the other day too. If that report is correct and he's only protecting his speakership, he has to be one egotistical asshole.
That's kinda the point isn't it. He has no power right now. Just two factions in the same party telling him what to do.
This whole plan was based on Obama caving. But why would they expect that when he's not up for re-election?
Black Mamba
Member
But he has no power regardless
Omg hannity whining about it taking 35 minutes to go through the system. Lmao. Poor hannity. This must be a sad day for him.
Perception, being "the guy", Mr. Speaker, etc It's all ego-based.
Being up at the helm, even only nominally, and being brought down to be "one of the rest" hurts the ego. He seems to have one.
j_k_redtail
Member
If John Boehner put a clean CR on the floor of the House, it would pass tonight - not because of him, but in spite of him.
He has plenty of power. What he lacks is influence.
- Status