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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
It was a CIA location posing as a consulate. Foreign governments are only responsible for securing embassies

No. The US consulate was attacked, and a CIA annex in a nearby diplomatic compound was also attacked.


Also, your claim makes no sense considering the fatalities that occurred (The U.S. Ambassador to Libya, an Information Officer, and two embassy security personnel.) Come on, Cloudy, an ambassador doesn't work at CIA HQ.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
So I read that Jon Chait article about the Obama being able to curb global warming using his executive powers without the need for congress to act. This made me curious, and this is something I've wondered for the longest time. How exactly do these government agencies operate in relation to the President? In other words, can Obama command the EPA or Justice department to prioritize things that he wants done (within the confines of the law, obviously)? I originally thought that's how it worked, but you have something like the BLS, which is under the Dept. of Commerce, which is one of the many branches under the presidency, but they have to act independent as far as I know.

Someone 'splain, please.
 
So I read that Jon Chait article about the Obama being able to curb global warming using his executive powers without the need for congress to act. This made me curious, and this is something I've wondered for the longest time. How exactly do these government agencies operate in relation to the President? In other words, can Obama command the EPA or Justice department to prioritize things that he wants done (within the confines of the law, obviously)? I originally thought that's how it worked, but you have something like the BLS, which is under the Dept. of Commerce, which is one of the many branches under the presidency, but they have to act independent as far as I know.

Someone 'splain, please.
Constitutionally they're just part of the white house I believe (true independent agencies, irs, fed are different). The president doesn't really order things but je can ask for resignations as he appoints the heads. Secretaries exist because the president can't possibility do all the work of enacting and enforcing of laws. Usually they are independent but work within the guidelines the white house sets out. I mean the president does choose who runs them.
 

Opiate

Member
mcconnell_for_real.jpg
 
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...ns-and-democrats-divided-on-music-icons-.html
The party disagreements even extend to Favorite Beatle – Democrats choose John over Paul (39-36) while Republicans strongly prefer Paul over John (49-15) – it seems Republicans still haven’t forgiven Lennon for his strong political activism.
Democrats have better taste in music confirmed.
Wait, so what if your favorite Beatle was George or Ringo, what does that say about you politically then?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
It's faked. It's just an excellent example of how thin the line between parody and reality has gotten.

I could swear reading about a story like that at one point though. Where McConnell proposed something reasonable to make the Dems look bad when they opposed it, but then they backed it so he had to filibuster it. Shit I remember that story, it happened. It really did, I swear to god I remember it.

QVqDYNQ.png


Of course.

Really? Bigger than Watergate? God damn FOX is a blight.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I anxiously await all the yucks in my life who can't even read a 1040 trying to tell me about 501(c)4 status.

I doubt that it will gain much traction. The issue is just too complicated, good luck to anyone who tries to simplify 501(c)4 stuff and all the rest of it. The Conservative media is just going to leave it alone because if they ever figure out how to simplify the story, the explanation of campaign finance that goes along with it will make people mad. You can't spin infinite money.
 
I can't believe NewsBusters posts reality on their site.

Sure it is repost of Daily Kos stuff but still...

Daily Kos Week in Review: Benghazi Bamboozle

Kos: Obama's high ethical standards frustrate GOPers
...[T]his is the same crowd that didn't give a fuck about Bush's genuine lies that got people genuinely killed. And lots of them...

...After over four years of the most scandal-free administration since forever, conservatives have to hang on to some semblance of malfeasance to continue justifying their pathetic hysteria, and given the failure of their Fast and Furious hysteria, maybe this Benghazi thing can become the new scandal of the century...

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-jo...-week-review-benghazi-bamboozle#ixzz2Sx8jaZEL

This is bizarre.

It perfectly fits the Right-Wing base is like sports. They are trying to post bulletin board material in the locker-room to fire themselves up.

The problem is it is reality distilled down to a handful of paragraphs. Like how could it pump you up when it isn't something that it decided over a series of events you have impact over with a game.
 
I can't believe NewsBusters posts reality on their site.

Sure it is repost of Daily Kos stuff but still...

Daily Kos Week in Review: Benghazi Bamboozle

Kos: Obama's high ethical standards frustrate GOPers

This is bizarre.

It perfectly fits the Right-Wing base is like sports. They are trying to post bulletin board material in the locker-room to fire themselves up.

The problem is it is reality distilled down to a handful of paragraphs. Like how could it pump you up when it isn't something that it decided over a series of events you have impact over with a game.

And once again, the mainstream GOP is giving all this FUD legitimacy. When you claim something is the biggest cover up since Watergate, and that the president could be impeached over it...where do you go from there. So when nothing happens, IE no truly major revelations come out and Obama keeps his job...what happens? Do conspiracy theorists lose credibility? Nope, they gain it because the next phase is "the liberal media covered it all up." It's a win win proposition for the right...at least in their bubble. Because no one else gives a shit.
 
More insanity from Michelle Bachmann:

Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) continued to promote a right-wing Sept. 11 "National Day of Prayer and Fasting" on Thursday, telling an audience gathered at a Capitol Hill event that such actions were necessary because "judgment" had been passed down by God on that day in both 2001 and 2012.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/10/michele-bachmann-911-god_n_3254568.html

So if God passed judgement in Benghazi then why investigate the Obama administration? There's nothing that they could've done about it since it was God's work and if somehow they were able to prevent the deaths in Benghazi then it would've been basically a fighting against God. So defending America now = jihad against God...if you want to bring it to the conclusion of her wacko thoughts. Although calling them thoughts is probably overstating. I don't think she has really done much thinking about this...or basically anything else that's going on in the world.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Somebody pointed out the fact investigations have the potential to backfire. Does the GOP really want people digging at all these tea party groups?

Only if they were idiots. Odds are it'll lead back to a couple of donors making ludicrously huge contributions and the narrative becomes "rich people trying to buy elections." Right now it's more or less a thought experiment for the average guy, given proof I can't imagine it going over well. Couple that with the fact that changing demographics means they need that money to stay competitive means that this is going to get buried by the GOP really fast.

People have read this Atlantic piece on BENGHAZI!, right? lunacy.

Rand Paul sounds like an entitled douche, because he is.

In his defense everyone in that piece sounds like a self entitled tool.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
The Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson aren't even trying to hide the fact that they're attempting to buy elections and the media still doesn't give a shit. The GOP doesn't need to bury anything.
 
The Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson aren't even trying to hide the fact that they're attempting to buy elections and the media still doesn't give a shit. The GOP doesn't need to bury anything.

It's amazingly sad when you have a group of people who literally are so goddamn fucking stupid that the people manipulating them don't even have to HIDE their intentions at all, because they hate the President that goddamn much.
 
And once again, the mainstream GOP is giving all this FUD legitimacy. When you claim something is the biggest cover up since Watergate, and that the president could be impeached over it...where do you go from there. So when nothing happens, IE no truly major revelations come out and Obama keeps his job...what happens? Do conspiracy theorists lose credibility? Nope, they gain it because the next phase is "the liberal media covered it all up." It's a win win proposition for the right...at least in their bubble. Because no one else gives a shit.

It works with the true-believers but the problem with this strategy is there are only so many true-believers. A person with even a moderate ability to ask skeptical questions will ask "Wait . . . I'm supposed to believe that Obama is trying to be a tyrannical government by buying up all the bullets? . . . Why wouldn't he just outlaw selling bullets to the public? Aren't bullets still available everywhere just a slightly constrained supply . . . and that is easily explained by all the gun nuts buying more bullets because they think 'Obama gonna take ma' gunz!'?"

After endless allegations that go no where, the right has discredited itself to all but the true-believers.

Where are the FEMA concentration camps?

Where is the great evidence on the birth certificate that 'you would not believe'?

Where is the evidence behind the Saudi bomber conspiracy theory that Glenn Beck pushed?

Where is any proof that Agenda 21 is some grand conspiracy of the UN taking over?


It is all a bunch of nonsense and any disinterested moderately skeptical person can see it. Glenn Beck is a joke, World Net Daily is a conspiracy theory factory, Alex Jones is a complete disgrace . . . yet the views those people espouse are brought up in Congressional hearings by GOPers! The guy who came in second in the GOP Presidential primary works for World Net Daily (Santorum).

The GOP will always have a strong 30% base with this crazy but they'll never be a majority party outside of the South and some Mountain states with this conspiratorial nonsense.
 
People have read this Atlantic piece on BENGHAZI!, right? lunacy.

Rand Paul sounds like an entitled douche, because he is.

But for Benghazi truthers, the scandal is much, much more interesting. There are actually two camps: regular old Benghazi truthers believe that the CIA was arming Syrian rebels out of the Benghazi annex, while the ultra truthers believe the Obama administration colluded with terrorists to stage the kidnapping of Ambassador Chris Stevens in order to set up a prisoner exchange that would made President Obama look like a tough peace negotiator right before the election. Some people with surprisingly solid credentials buy these theories. Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul has hinted he's a Benghazi truther, floating the idea that the CIA annex was attacked because it was part of a secret gun-running operation. Retired Admiral James Lyons, who commanded the U.S. Pacific Fleet in the 1980s, is a Benghazi ultra truther. The Atlantic Wire spoke to Lyons to better understand his theory.

OK, the kidnapping theory is just plain batshit crazy. Really? "colluded with terrorists to stage the kidnapping of Ambassador"? That is Alex Jones level crazy.

But the other theory is at least plausible. The evidence supporting it is flimsy and shouldn't Rand Paul have access to top secret briefings of what the CIA is doing? They are supposed to being doing oversight.

But here is the thing . . . let's assume for sake of argument that the gun-running theory is true. Arming the rebels is exactly what many GOPers have been asking the administration to do! Even if it is true, how is it a 'scandal' for the administration to be implementing policies that the GOP wants? It's like the GOP found a 'scandal' about a secret tax-cut that Obama implemented. No noes!
 

Wilsongt

Member
OK, the kidnapping theory is just plain batshit crazy. Really? "colluded with terrorists to stage the kidnapping of Ambassador"? That is Alex Jones level crazy.

But the other theory is at least plausible. The evidence supporting it is flimsy and shouldn't Rand Paul have access to top secret briefings of what the CIA is doing? They are supposed to being doing oversight.

But here is the thing . . . let's assume for sake of argument that the gun-running theory is true. Arming the rebels is exactly what many GOPers have been asking the administration to do! Even if it is true, how is it a 'scandal' for them to be implementing policies that they want? It's like the found out a 'scandal' about a secret tax-cut that Obama implemented.

Because Obama.

If he farted the wrong direction I am sure the GOP would use that as a reason to criticize him.
 
I just can't wait till 50 years from now when a Texas school book commission approves the new history books that focus on the over reach of Obamacare, the horrors of Fast and the Furious, and the disgrace that is Benghazi. They will also highlight the true patriotism of the tea party movement.
 
What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes. And they don't mind this administration's IRS (I know, they are "independent"... give me a break) admitting to targeting political opponents. These are two legitimate causes for serious concern.

The Benghazi thing is a big deal. Do a little bit of reading. They most certainly edited the talking points to try to make it seem like this was a spontaneous protest was instigated by some unknown youtube video. That was a LIE. There was no demonstration. The youtube video had absolutely nothing to do with what happened there. They knew right away that Ansar al Sharia and Al Qaeda were likely responsible and that this was a coordinated, planned attack. But rather than admit that, they made up a lie that better fit their narrative.

They even went so far as to ARREST the author of the youtube video. Yeah, he violated his parole. But does anyone think that guy is in jail if this administration doesn't basically blame him for the death of 4 people in Libya?

Now people are alleging that they were pressured not to talk to investigators. Emails have surfaced that prove they excluded information about previous attacks and specific threats in advance of this attack. They denied requests for more security. They gave 2 different stand down orders to military personnel in that part of the world. And all the while, they denied and they lied about what was happening and why.

It is hard to say how much the President was directly involved in any of this. He was campaigning at the time. But he is the President and this was a failure on many levels of his administration. The person who looks to be about to lose the most here is Hillary Clinton. It was her State Department that appears in the emails expressing concern about "feeding the wrong narrative".

Either way, some of the people here need to get their heads out of the sand. 4 people died and this administration made up a false narrative about how and why it happened. They lied about it. That is a big deal. I don't know why they lied. Whether it was a simple political calculation about the election or some unlikely cover up about running guns to Syrian rebels. But I do know they lied, and if you think that is some "Fox News pretend controversy", you are either uninformed or a shill. I guess I should take a bet as to how long it will take for someone to make some sort of moral equivalence between this and Bush lying about WMDs.
 

ICKE

Banned
IRS targeted conservative groups, official says

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...ing-conservative-groups-19151151#.UY59NrX-HqI

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-irs-conservative-20130511,0,2213444.story

This has probably already been covered ad nauseam(?) but it is kind of amazing to me that such a thing could happen.

I understand the stigma and political rhetoric, certain voters only looking out for the rich and trying to find ways to hide their income but....really? To target people in the opposition during election season like that? Government officials really need to take a hard look at themselves, because this is so far from good governance that everyone should be worried.

This is obviously going to be used as a political weapon, everything is these days, but you really don't want the other side ever going there. Just look at Russia where it's a common occurrence, these days people on the "other side" have to declare themselves as foreign agents and their property gets raided for asking too many questions.
 
I just can't wait till 50 years from now when a Texas school book commission approves the new history books that focus on the over reach of Obamacare, the horrors of Fast and the Furious, and the disgrace that is Benghazi. They will also highlight the true patriotism of the tea party movement.
50 years from now it's more likely a Texas school board commission would be printing all of their books en espanol and taking a giant shit on the legacy of George Bush.
 
What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes. And they don't mind this administration's IRS (I know, they are "independent"... give me a break) admitting to targeting political opponents. These are two legitimate causes for serious concern.

The Benghazi thing is a big deal. Do a little bit of reading. They most certainly edited the talking points to try to make it seem like this was a spontaneous protest was instigated by some unknown youtube video. That was a LIE. There was no demonstration. The youtube video had absolutely nothing to do with what happened there. They knew right away that Ansar al Sharia and Al Qaeda were likely responsible and that this was a coordinated, planned attack. But rather than admit that, they made up a lie that better fit their narrative.

They even went so far as to ARREST the author of the youtube video. Yeah, he violated his parole. But does anyone think that guy is in jail if this administration doesn't basically blame him for the death of 4 people in Libya?

Now people are alleging that they were pressured not to talk to investigators. Emails have surfaced that prove they excluded information about previous attacks and specific threats in advance of this attack. They denied requests for more security. They gave 2 different stand down orders to military personnel in that part of the world. And all the while, they denied and they lied about what was happening and why.

It is hard to say how much the President was directly involved in any of this. He was campaigning at the time. But he is the President and this was a failure on many levels of his administration. The person who looks to be about to lose the most here is Hillary Clinton. It was her State Department that appears in the emails expressing concern about "feeding the wrong narrative".

Either way, some of the people here need to get their heads out of the sand. 4 people died and this administration made up a false narrative about how and why it happened. They lied about it. That is a big deal. I don't know why they lied. Whether it was a simple political calculation about the election or some unlikely cover up about running guns to Syrian rebels. But I do know they lied, and if you think that is some "Fox News pretend controversy", you are either uninformed or a shill. I guess I should take a bet as to how long it will take for someone to make some sort of moral equivalence between this and Bush lying about WMDs.
This has been annoying me too. People in here are treating this like something that never happened. Like a joke. It isn't just Fox reporting anymore.

As bad as Watergate? Hell no. But it's still a fuckup. And don't give me that bullshit about how Bush had more issues with attacks like this. I don't give a fuck. This is still a screwup and a lot of accusations have come out of these hearings. Whoever is responsible deserves to be ripped.

I expected less partisan bickering from PoliGAF.
 

Chichikov

Member
This has been annoying me too. People in here are treating this like something that never happened. Like a joke. It isn't just Fox reporting anymore.

As bad as Watergate? Hell no. But it's still a fuckup. And don't give me that bullshit about how Bush had more issues with attacks like this. I don't give a fuck. This is still a screwup and a lot of accusations have come out of these hearings. Whoever is responsible deserves to be ripped.

I expected less partisan bickering from PoliGAF.

The biggest story there is the fact that the US has secret CIA facilities in Egypt that we're still not even told of their purpose, I promise you, I'll get being anyone who explores that angle.
But Fox News and the GOP seem to be focused almost exclusively about shit that was told on the Sunday talk shows after the fact, and sorry, this is a non-story, and worse, it's a partisan distraction that all but guarantee that we'll never get a serious public debate about that shit.
 
IRS targeted conservative groups, official says

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...ing-conservative-groups-19151151#.UY59NrX-HqI

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-irs-conservative-20130511,0,2213444.story

This has probably already been covered ad nauseam(?) but it is kind of amazing to me that such a thing could happen.

I understand the stigma and political rhetoric, certain voters only looking out for the rich and trying to find ways to hide their income but....really? To target people in the opposition during election season like that? Government officials really need to take a hard look at themselves, because this is so far from good governance that everyone should be worried.
I mean, I understand that conservatives are mad about this, but it seems mostly like a data processing strategy. The groups aren't supposed to have politics as their "primary purpose" and putting the term "tea party" in your name is probably a decent signifier of intent.

Lerner said the employees had received 3,400 applications for social welfare groups in 2012, more than double the number the agency received in 2010.

In trying to figure out which might be engaging in political activity — and thus deserving of a closer look — Lerner said employees started to review like-sounding groups.


"What they should have done is based it on their activities," said Marcus Owens, former director of the IRS' nonprofit division. "The IRS has a long-standing policy of not characterizing taxpayers by their name."

He said the workers also made a mistake in asking for the groups' donor lists, which aren't relevant to whether they deserve nonprofit status.

Owens said the IRS, strapped for resources, had been pushing more decision-making authority to that field office. "This is what happens when you do that," he said, dismissing suggestions of a partisan attack.

I see this kind of stuff happen all the time in private business to handle increased volume they don't have the resources to process individually anymore.
 
What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes. And they don't mind this administration's IRS (I know, they are "independent"... give me a break) admitting to targeting political opponents. These are two legitimate causes for serious concern.

The Benghazi thing is a big deal. Do a little bit of reading. They most certainly edited the talking points to try to make it seem like this was a spontaneous protest was instigated by some unknown youtube video. That was a LIE. There was no demonstration. The youtube video had absolutely nothing to do with what happened there. They knew right away that Ansar al Sharia and Al Qaeda were likely responsible and that this was a coordinated, planned attack. But rather than admit that, they made up a lie that better fit their narrative.

They even went so far as to ARREST the author of the youtube video. Yeah, he violated his parole. But does anyone think that guy is in jail if this administration doesn't basically blame him for the death of 4 people in Libya?

Now people are alleging that they were pressured not to talk to investigators. Emails have surfaced that prove they excluded information about previous attacks and specific threats in advance of this attack. They denied requests for more security. They gave 2 different stand down orders to military personnel in that part of the world. And all the while, they denied and they lied about what was happening and why.

It is hard to say how much the President was directly involved in any of this. He was campaigning at the time. But he is the President and this was a failure on many levels of his administration. The person who looks to be about to lose the most here is Hillary Clinton. It was her State Department that appears in the emails expressing concern about "feeding the wrong narrative".

Either way, some of the people here need to get their heads out of the sand. 4 people died and this administration made up a false narrative about how and why it happened. They lied about it. That is a big deal. I don't know why they lied. Whether it was a simple political calculation about the election or some unlikely cover up about running guns to Syrian rebels. But I do know they lied, and if you think that is some "Fox News pretend controversy", you are either uninformed or a shill. I guess I should take a bet as to how long it will take for someone to make some sort of moral equivalence between this and Bush lying about WMDs.
Did somebody say Benghazi?!?!
 

Gotchaye

Member
What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes. And they don't mind this administration's IRS (I know, they are "independent"... give me a break) admitting to targeting political opponents. These are two legitimate causes for serious concern.

The Benghazi thing is a big deal. Do a little bit of reading. They most certainly edited the talking points to try to make it seem like this was a spontaneous protest was instigated by some unknown youtube video. That was a LIE. There was no demonstration. The youtube video had absolutely nothing to do with what happened there. They knew right away that Ansar al Sharia and Al Qaeda were likely responsible and that this was a coordinated, planned attack. But rather than admit that, they made up a lie that better fit their narrative.

They even went so far as to ARREST the author of the youtube video. Yeah, he violated his parole. But does anyone think that guy is in jail if this administration doesn't basically blame him for the death of 4 people in Libya?

Now people are alleging that they were pressured not to talk to investigators. Emails have surfaced that prove they excluded information about previous attacks and specific threats in advance of this attack. They denied requests for more security. They gave 2 different stand down orders to military personnel in that part of the world. And all the while, they denied and they lied about what was happening and why.

It is hard to say how much the President was directly involved in any of this. He was campaigning at the time. But he is the President and this was a failure on many levels of his administration. The person who looks to be about to lose the most here is Hillary Clinton. It was her State Department that appears in the emails expressing concern about "feeding the wrong narrative".

Either way, some of the people here need to get their heads out of the sand. 4 people died and this administration made up a false narrative about how and why it happened. They lied about it. That is a big deal. I don't know why they lied. Whether it was a simple political calculation about the election or some unlikely cover up about running guns to Syrian rebels. But I do know they lied, and if you think that is some "Fox News pretend controversy", you are either uninformed or a shill. I guess I should take a bet as to how long it will take for someone to make some sort of moral equivalence between this and Bush lying about WMDs.

Ignoring the rest of it for now, it should be obvious that there's no moral equivalence between Obama lying about Benghazi and Bush lying about Iraq. Remember the slogan? "Bush lied. People died." Bush's lies came before people died. Those lies were an important part of convincing other people to go along with policies Bush wanted which resulted in people dying.

Obama's lies did... what, exactly? Through a spokesperson, he briefly misled some viewers of Sunday talk shows? The monster!

Absolutely, there looks to be some cause for concern about various things the Obama administration has done (not just about Benghazi); several things warrant further investigation. The problem is that his political opponents are so unhinged that everything they touch turns to shit. Benghazi is obviously not nearly as big of a deal as they're making it out to be, and they make it very hard to ask legitimate questions without coming across as just as crazy as they are.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
This has been annoying me too. People in here are treating this like something that never happened. Like a joke. It isn't just Fox reporting anymore.

As bad as Watergate? Hell no. But it's still a fuckup. And don't give me that bullshit about how Bush had more issues with attacks like this. I don't give a fuck. This is still a screwup and a lot of accusations have come out of these hearings. Whoever is responsible deserves to be ripped.

I expected less partisan bickering from PoliGAF.

There is a story there, but it's far from the one Fox has been focused on. They've been arguing about the talking points that were used all of once. That's not really a story, the story is why was the ambassador at a CIA annex and why did said annex not take necessary security precautions. That's the story, not the whole talking point thing and if Fox had calmed down long enough while the facts were coming out it would have been the story. They're just trying to turn it into something it isn't.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes.

It's even worse considering the recent news that Obama carried out the attacks himself.

But I guess some people just love their Obamaphones too much to be outraged.
 
What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes. And they don't mind this administration's IRS (I know, they are "independent"... give me a break) admitting to targeting political opponents. These are two legitimate causes for serious concern.

The Benghazi thing is a big deal. Do a little bit of reading. They most certainly edited the talking points to try to make it seem like this was a spontaneous protest was instigated by some unknown youtube video. That was a LIE. There was no demonstration. The youtube video had absolutely nothing to do with what happened there. They knew right away that Ansar al Sharia and Al Qaeda were likely responsible and that this was a coordinated, planned attack. But rather than admit that, they made up a lie that better fit their narrative.

They even went so far as to ARREST the author of the youtube video. Yeah, he violated his parole. But does anyone think that guy is in jail if this administration doesn't basically blame him for the death of 4 people in Libya?

Now people are alleging that they were pressured not to talk to investigators. Emails have surfaced that prove they excluded information about previous attacks and specific threats in advance of this attack. They denied requests for more security. They gave 2 different stand down orders to military personnel in that part of the world. And all the while, they denied and they lied about what was happening and why.

It is hard to say how much the President was directly involved in any of this. He was campaigning at the time. But he is the President and this was a failure on many levels of his administration. The person who looks to be about to lose the most here is Hillary Clinton. It was her State Department that appears in the emails expressing concern about "feeding the wrong narrative".

Either way, some of the people here need to get their heads out of the sand. 4 people died and this administration made up a false narrative about how and why it happened. They lied about it. That is a big deal. I don't know why they lied. Whether it was a simple political calculation about the election or some unlikely cover up about running guns to Syrian rebels. But I do know they lied, and if you think that is some "Fox News pretend controversy", you are either uninformed or a shill. I guess I should take a bet as to how long it will take for someone to make some sort of moral equivalence between this and Bush lying about WMDs..
As the meme goes . . .


What is really funny is watching so many people here try to pretend they don't mind this administration lying about the deaths of 4 Americans to political purposes.
Never assume deceit when incompetence can explain the facts just as well.

And they don't mind this administration's IRS (I know, they are "independent"... give me a break) admitting to targeting political opponents.
This is a scandal. But so far there is no evidence of anyone outside of the IRS being involved.

The Benghazi thing is a big deal. Do a little bit of reading.
Listen up sheeple!
They most certainly edited the talking points to try to make it seem like this was a spontaneous protest was instigated by some unknown youtube video. That was a LIE. There was no demonstration.
There was a demonstration. That wasn't the attack though as they later realized. Don't like what the CIA said . . . then take it up with David Petraeus. They provided the talking points.

They even went so far as to ARREST the author of the youtube video. Yeah, he violated his parole. But does anyone think that guy is in jail if this administration doesn't basically blame him for the death of 4 people in Libya?
How does that remotely show anything nefarious? The video was world-wide news and when you are involved in world-wide news, it brings attention to you. Attention was put on this guy and it turns out he violated his parole, so he got arrested.

Are you telling us that you think he should NOT have been arrested?

Now people are alleging that they were pressured not to talk to investigators. Emails have surfaced that prove they excluded information about previous attacks and specific threats in advance of this attack. They denied requests for more security. They gave 2 different stand down orders to military personnel in that part of the world. And all the while, they denied and they lied about what was happening and why.
This is all quite vague. What is 'pressured'? Intentionally excluded or it was just forgotten? Denied requests for security . . so? It is a judgment call. Stand down orders were from the military . . . are you saying our own military is trying to kill its own people? You've proven no lies, just alleged them.

Were there some mistakes? Sure. It is in the Pickering report. But are you saying the the administration wanted to kill our own people? It seems like it. Do you believe that?


Either way, some of the people here need to get their heads out of the sand. 4 people died and this administration made up a false narrative about how and why it happened. They lied about it. That is a big deal.
That is not proven. You believe it but you don't have anything that proves lies instead of just mistakes, confusion, etc.



Whether it was a simple political calculation about the election or some unlikely cover up about running guns to Syrian rebels. But I do know they lied, and if you think that is some "Fox News pretend controversy", you are either uninformed or a shill.

Please show me something that proves a lie that can't be just as well explained as confusion, mistakes, etc.
 

Jackson50

Member
It was a CIA location posing as a consulate. Foreign governments are only responsible for securing embassies
Host nations are responsible for securing all consular premises. But the special compound had never been formally declared as a consular facility with the Libyan government. So their obligations were ambiguous. But even if they were clear, they lacked the capacity to supply security. However, it was not a CIA facility. A CIA annex was located 2 km away. And given the scope of inter-agency cooperation on the project, it seems likely the compound was partially meant to provide cover. But it also provided diplomatic functions on a temporary basis until a more secure compound could be constructed. So it's stuck in a purgatorial position between CIA cover facility and a genuine diplomatic mission. That's largely why it was acutely vulnerable.
Ignoring the rest of it for now, it should be obvious that there's no moral equivalence between Obama lying about Benghazi and Bush lying about Iraq. Remember the slogan? "Bush lied. People died." Bush's lies came before people died. Those lies were an important part of convincing other people to go along with policies Bush wanted which resulted in people dying.

Obama's lies did... what, exactly? Through a spokesperson, he briefly misled some viewers of Sunday talk shows? The monster!

Absolutely, there looks to be some cause for concern about various things the Obama administration has done (not just about Benghazi); several things warrant further investigation. The problem is that his political opponents are so unhinged that everything they touch turns to shit. Benghazi is obviously not nearly as big of a deal as they're making it out to be, and they make it very hard to ask legitimate questions without coming across as just as crazy as they are.
Precisely. There were mistakes that need to be evaluated and rectified. For example, I think the ARB process should be made more independent and transparent. But the process has been wholly undermined by a deranged opposition determined to create a political scandal.
More insanity from Michelle Bachmann:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/10/michele-bachmann-911-god_n_3254568.html

So if God passed judgement in Benghazi then why investigate the Obama administration? There's nothing that they could've done about it since it was God's work and if somehow they were able to prevent the deaths in Benghazi then it would've been basically a fighting against God. So defending America now = jihad against God...if you want to bring it to the conclusion of her wacko thoughts. Although calling them thoughts is probably overstating. I don't think she has really done much thinking about this...or basically anything else that's going on in the world.
Perverse lifestyles are now acceptable in mainstream culture. Over 50 million murders have been sanctioned by the government since 1973. Oh, and God has been kicked out of our schools. Of course he pours out his wrath upon us. Or so I've been told.
 

Zona

Member

I'm going to copy/past a response I read from another forum simply because I can't see myself saying it better. All credit where it's due.

Robear said:
As for "the truth", what is now emerging is that the White House was *not* part of the process by which the initial State Department talking points were put together. Those were based on arguments between the CIA and State on which of them would get to present the narrative. State won, and based on worries that Congress would lambaste them on security issues chose to downplay the involvement of militia fighters. The omission of the mention of the terrorist group involved was negotiated by State with the CIA based on worries by State that that would reveal classified information (as was any initial mention of the CIA annex). The CIA was willing to release the name initially, but State, FBI and Justice disagreed, feeling also that it would interfere with the investigation on site. The CIA also removed mentions of Ansar Al-Shia, again for reasons of intelligence sourcing, but left in mentions of five other attacks, which State removed on the worries about blame for security faults.

So the truth is that the White House was not involved. The edits were led by Victoria Nuland, the chief spokesperson for State, who was afraid that Congress would come after them, not the White House. And note that Congress *was* informed of the situation on the ground as it was understood by both the CIA and State, and it was not an issue until the Republicans hauled it out, twice, to make it one. The fact that they did so by stretching the truth in numerous ways speaks for itself.

The worst sin here seems to be that the State Department didn't want to be jumped by Republicans for arguably poor preparations (and bad judgement on the Ambassador's part, I guess). Ironically, that left them often to another line of attack which they did not anticipate.

The Intelligence Committee was briefed by the CIA and State in November and Congress had access to the information over the months following the attack. They were made aware of the details and Republicans waited until now to turn it into an issue. They were aware that the CIA had characterized this as terrorist activity, but did not want that released right away because of it's possible effects on the investigation, and the classified nature of the information.

Finally, as for truth, it was the Ambassador who decided to break protocol and spend the night in Benghazi, something he'd never done before, in spite of knowing the history of recent attacks. He was scheduled to return to Tripoli for the night, then would come back the next day. If we're crucifying people for bad decisions, doesn't he come into the picture at all? He was the one making the choices, after all.

Or maybe that's just something to be ignored, seeing as his choices can't be pinned on Obama, and he functions better as a dead martyr than a leader who made a bad judgement call.
...
Congress knew terrorists were involved, within days. McClatchey and other news sources reported within 12 hours that the Libyan Deputy Foreign Minister had stated that this was terrorist action. The CIA put that in it's initial assessments. State removed most of the mentions but still alluded to it. Justice and FBI want the information held back. State ultimately prevailed after about 12 or 14 drafts between them and the CIA. Oh, and the transcripts of those drafts and deliberations were given to the Committee two months ago. The Republicans on the Committee said nothing about it until now.

The White House insisted that the term "consulate" be changed to "diplomatic post". That's the extent of it's editing.

Quite a smoking gun.
 
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