Don't cave, Obama. Do not cave.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Please
please
please let this ruin Ryan
anything
please
please let this ruin Ryan
anything
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
LOL, i was wondering the same thing. Cruz has been MIA since the shutdown went into effect.
I would not even characterize them as pragmatists. They are simply realists, legislatively. But again, there are precious few of them.
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
More Steel: "Right now, there’s nothing grand, and there’s no one to bargain with.”
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
More Boehner spokes Steel: “... like in the debt limit bill we’ve been discussing - but let’s drop the phrase ‘grand bargain.'"
lol
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
.@sethdmichaels To be clear "grand bargain" is the term being used by House Rs to describe House R plan to combo CR/debt limit
oh for fuck's sake.
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
What's happening: As Boehner/leadership struggle to solve CR impasse, hopes for CR-debt limit 'bargain' grow, Ryan/Camp push w/ rank & file
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More Steel: "Right now, there’s nothing grand, and there’s no one to bargain with.”
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
More Boehner spokes Steel: “... like in the debt limit bill we’ve been discussing - but let’s drop the phrase ‘grand bargain.'"
lol
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
.@sethdmichaels To be clear "grand bargain" is the term being used by House Rs to describe House R plan to combo CR/debt limit
oh for fuck's sake.
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
What's happening: As Boehner/leadership struggle to solve CR impasse, hopes for CR-debt limit 'bargain' grow, Ryan/Camp push w/ rank & file
-_-
NYCmetsfan
Banned
They're talking to themselves.
For real, how he is still seen as relevant after that public shaming is beyond me.
The only way this ends is with Boehner folding. It's just a matter of when.
They don't quite understand that they have no leverage in this situation, at all. It'll dawn on them at some point, I hope.
NullPointer
Member
It's like they know that it is unrealistic, and are forcing him to use the 14th or mint a coin in hopes of impeaching him.
Focus all your efforts on the Senate next year, get a majority, impeach. Sounds crazy, but... the GOP is crazy.
I don't think they understand the situation they are in. Not only do they not understand how negotiations work, but what Obama looses by making any concessions.
I think they are more than aware of what Obama loses... why do you think they're doing this BS campaign to make Obama/Reid look like they are not compromising?
If they were really aware of the precedent that him folding here would set, they would know he'd never do it. I don't think they entirely understand the situation they have created here. I don't think most people do, if Obama folds here it means the minority party can take the country hostage whenever a bill they don't like becomes a law. I doubt they realize the consequences of their own victory here.
That's the whole point... maybe guys like Louie Goehmert (sp?) don't get it. Guys like Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, etc. do.
I think Boehner knows he has to fold or he needs a miracle. He's just waiting for the right time. It's probably why he's transitioning to "grand bargain" debt ceiling talk with Ryan. He has to kill two birds with one stone because when it happens the party is going to implode.
They have a lot of experience with it from the California Republican Party which engaged in budgetary white minority rule forever, maybe this is a hedge against punting minority votes away without a fight.
Then we're uber-boned.
empty vessel
Member
I don't know about that. They are voting as a bloc. They are united. They are one.
Obama has to lead. And by that I mean bypass these wicked trolls and use the
consitutional/treasury option.
Anyone counting on Boehner to fold by having all these meetings and such... nah. It's just gonna hurt his rep even more in his own caucus assuming he does fold... which remains to be seen...
Yeah, this is probably to silence the "moderate" uprising in the party. Keeping everyone in line.
Disgusting.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
They're not serious.
I wanted Obama to use the Constitutional Option the last time the Debt Ceiling happened. We should be getting rid of that damn thing, not fighting over it.
It's so frustrating. As you guys probably notice, I tend to shy away from just insulting politicians I disagree with or denigrating their opinions. I normally believe that most act in a rational manner.
To that end, it sickens me the level of cowardice shown by Boehner and the other House GOP. They are so scared of something they don't support succeeding, that they are willing to actively harm the US Government and Economy to just put on a show about it.
They know they can't repeal it, because they've tried. They know that in a couple years, even with the Senate they won't be able to repeal it because of the filibuster. They know in a couple years, people won't care about repealing it. Because all they operate in now is theoretical fear. The theory that your premiums will skyrocket, that you'll lose your job, that some poor person might be able to avoid being in debt the rest of their life because of a Gall Bladder Infection.
And to think, we're not even having this fight in an actual, normal, rational way. We're having it as a fight over the goddamn economy of the United States.
And so, we see the shutdown, and what is the main point of the GOP? Benghazi and a fucking memorial. Showponies, the lot of them. Bunch of empty-hearted shitbags who won't even vote on a clean bill.
And that's the most annoying part. They won't vote on the bill, because they know it'll pass. They fear a primary from some no-name idiot because they can't think of a way to justify PAYING FOR THEIR GODDAMN BILLS.
Idiots.
To that end, it sickens me the level of cowardice shown by Boehner and the other House GOP. They are so scared of something they don't support succeeding, that they are willing to actively harm the US Government and Economy to just put on a show about it.
They know they can't repeal it, because they've tried. They know that in a couple years, even with the Senate they won't be able to repeal it because of the filibuster. They know in a couple years, people won't care about repealing it. Because all they operate in now is theoretical fear. The theory that your premiums will skyrocket, that you'll lose your job, that some poor person might be able to avoid being in debt the rest of their life because of a Gall Bladder Infection.
And to think, we're not even having this fight in an actual, normal, rational way. We're having it as a fight over the goddamn economy of the United States.
And so, we see the shutdown, and what is the main point of the GOP? Benghazi and a fucking memorial. Showponies, the lot of them. Bunch of empty-hearted shitbags who won't even vote on a clean bill.
And that's the most annoying part. They won't vote on the bill, because they know it'll pass. They fear a primary from some no-name idiot because they can't think of a way to justify PAYING FOR THEIR GODDAMN BILLS.
Idiots.
cooljeanius
Member
Remember, voters are pretty stupid, too, so they might just go for it, unfortunately...
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Dude, they just might (if not everything, a LOT of things). Obama has a big decision to make if this continues to go south. Even with the 14th/Constitutional option there are risks associated with that because it would be pretty fucking unprecedented.
BAD sign. Just before the shutdown King was thinking GOPers just needed to get this out of their system and then we'd finally get to clean CR. Now, look at where we are...
worldrunover
Member
I think the most frustrating part is they're exploiting rules that everyone knew were there but never were exploited. They're basically spamming all the parliamentary tricks that no one did before out of good faith. And they're getting away with it. And I don't see a patch coming anytime soon.
Sorry for the crude gaming language, You get the idea.
rocketknight
Member
This is so inane.
Black Mamba
Member
Dumber that impeaching over a blowjob?
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
It's so stupid I can almost see them trying it. I really hope these geniuses attempt it.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Doesn't the 14th amendment have a "authorized by law" qualifier. How does it work?
The coin I understand.
Either way the markets are going to respond
The coin I understand.
Either way the markets are going to respond
Manmademan
Member
The public debt incurred by the US would be the result of the budgets, passed into law. The debt ceiling is simply a question of whether or not to pay those debts that were legally incurred.
There's a good argument that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional, but I can see why Obama wouldn't want to go down that road.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Jesus fucking christ chill out. There's literally no fucking way Boehner sits back and lets the global economy blow up because he's afraid of 30 junior/sophomore tea party congressmen.
I'm starting to think the government might be closed for weeks, but I'm not concerned at all about a default. Remember back in 2011 when the markets started panicking, and shortly thereafter an agreement was reached/Obama caved? That's going to happen here...except this time, presumably, Obama won't cave. Literally all Boehner needs to do is schedule the vote. To believe we'll default is to believe one man will refuse to allow a vote on whether the global economy should blow up or not.
I'm starting to think the government might be closed for weeks, but I'm not concerned at all about a default. Remember back in 2011 when the markets started panicking, and shortly thereafter an agreement was reached/Obama caved? That's going to happen here...except this time, presumably, Obama won't cave. Literally all Boehner needs to do is schedule the vote. To believe we'll default is to believe one man will refuse to allow a vote on whether the global economy should blow up or not.
If King is so worried, why did he just vote against a clean CR?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
For the record I was joking about the impeachment thing.
And yesterday bloomberg apparently reported that White House rejects the 14th amendment plan.
And yesterday bloomberg apparently reported that White House rejects the 14th amendment plan.
And even if Boehner is seriously that stupid... is everyone else that stupid? Is Obama that stupid? Even if ignoring the debt limit is legally speaking, 100% ILLEGAL, you think anyone is looking to be the one angelic politician left that kicked off the apocalypse? Ya'll silly.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Nothing is out of the realm of possibility at this point. The only reason anything happened in the first term was because Obama was willing to cave but this time he won't.
Black Mamba
Member
I still say Boehner caves when the DL is reached but my odds have changed drastically. I was once 99% sure of this, now more like 75%.
And yes, he may be willing to do that. The GOP is not rational and I fear Boehner values his position more than anything else. I sure hope not and expect not, but man...who fucking knows with these clowns anymore?
This is definitely a valid point. Don't give them any idea they can pass the buck on this unless they actually clamp down and do it.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Well there's the third option of a debt ceiling raise but a multi month shutdown. Perhaps that's still possible?
Black Mamba
Member
I am 100% convinced that Cruz never believed Boehner would do what he's doing now and just wanted to show himself to be anti-establishment and the true face of the anti-obamacare movement.
Cruz's antics worked so well that Boehner got hamstrung and was forced to comply.
Now, Cruz doesn't know what to do. He's been exposed.
I guess. I have no idea what Obama will do in the final hours before default. No one does.
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