Don't cave, Obama. Do not cave.He updated his post. It now says this.
LOL
Don't cave, Obama. Do not cave.He updated his post. It now says this.
LOL
Whatever you think about norquist he's a goldmine for quotes:
@washingtonpost: Grover Norquist: Ted Cruz "pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away" http://t.co/LlXY3d5g37
@robertcostaNRO 5m
These CR-DL talks are, for now, only among Rs, and very speculative. But Boehner is open to it, Ryan preaching it, and gathering steam
Really? They think Paul Ryan is going to save them? The man has been a running punch line since Biden publicly shamed him.
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
More Steel: "Right now, there’s nothing grand, and there’s no one to bargain with.”
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
More Boehner spokes Steel: “... like in the debt limit bill we’ve been discussing - but let’s drop the phrase ‘grand bargain.'"
lol
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
.@sethdmichaels To be clear "grand bargain" is the term being used by House Rs to describe House R plan to combo CR/debt limit
oh for fuck's sake.
It's like they know that it is unrealistic, and are forcing him to use the 14th or mint a coin in hopes of impeaching him.So, is the GOP's current plan is to hope Obama cave? Because that list of demands is ridiculous. It's a GOP Christmas list.
So, is the GOP's current plan is to hope Obama cave? Because that list of demands is ridiculous. It's a GOP Christmas list.
I think they are more than aware of what Obama loses... why do you think they're doing this BS campaign to make Obama/Reid look like they are not compromising?I don't think they understand the situation they are in. Not only do they not understand how negotiations work, but what Obama looses by making any concessions.
I think they are more than aware of what Obama loses... why do you think they're doing this BS campaign to make Obama/Reid look like they are not compromising?
That's the whole point... maybe guys like Louie Goehmert (sp?) don't get it. Guys like Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, etc. do.If they were really aware of the precedent that him folding here would set, they would know he'd never do it. I don't think they entirely understand the situation they have created here. I don't think most people do, if Obama folds here it means the minority party can take the country hostage whenever a bill they don't like becomes a law. I doubt they realize the consequences of their own victory here.
I think Boehner knows he has to fold or he needs a miracle. He's just waiting for the right time. It's probably why he's transitioning to "grand bargain" debt ceiling talk with Ryan. He has to kill two birds with one stone because when it happens the party is going to implode.So, is the GOP's current plan is to hope Obama cave? Because that list of demands is ridiculous. It's a GOP Christmas list.
If they were really aware of the precedent that him folding here would set, they would know he'd never do it. I don't think they entirely understand the situation they have created here. I don't think most people do, if Obama folds here it means the minority party can take the country hostage whenever a bill they don't like becomes a law. I doubt they realize the consequences of their own victory here.
That's the whole point... maybe guys like Louie Goehmert (sp?) don't get it. Guys like Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, etc. do.
OK, well there's that segment of Republicans that scare the shit out of the other Republicans.
Obama has to lead. And by that I mean bypass these wicked trolls and use theThen we're uber-boned.
Yeah, this is probably to silence the "moderate" uprising in the party. Keeping everyone in line.Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
Key differences btwn "grand bargain" 2011 and "grand bargain" 2013: 2011 wa btwn O and Boehner; 2013 is Ryan/Boehner w/ Rs to get unity
Whats not being discussed: increased taxes or revenues. From what I hear, this combined deal is being softly and informally sold to members; Wednesdays talks were abotu gradually getting them engaged in the prospect. And its all about what the GOP could win theres little about what theyll give in return.
Obama has to lead. And by that I mean bypass these wicked trolls and use the
consitutional/treasury option.
Anyone counting on Boehner to fold by having all these meetings and such... nah. It's just gonna hurt his rep even more in his own caucus assuming he does fold... which remains to be seen...
Remember, voters are pretty stupid, too, so they might just go for it, unfortunately...Running on impeaching a President for protecting the credit of the United States and the US Economy because you refuse to pay your bills would go down as the stupidest platform ever. Good luck with that.
Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 2m
That, in essence, is at the heart of this "grand bargain" chatter among House Rs... they're trying to will their way to an agreement
The Republican caucus starts elementary school!
@jonathanchait 3m
A "grand bargain" between Boehner, Ryan and the most conservative Republicans is a hilarious illustration of the GOP mindset right now.
Dude, they just might (if not everything, a LOT of things). Obama has a big decision to make if this continues to go south. Even with the 14th/Constitutional option there are risks associated with that because it would be pretty fucking unprecedented.They still think they can win EVERYTHING from their hostage.
BAD sign. Just before the shutdown King was thinking GOPers just needed to get this out of their system and then we'd finally get to clean CR. Now, look at where we are...Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 1m
Pete King hinted to reporters today that a big budget agrmnt may be in works--and that if it doesn't work, he's worried about default...
It's so frustrating. As you guys probably notice, I tend to shy away from just insulting politicians I disagree with or denigrating their opinions. I normally believe that most act in a rational manner.
To that end, it sickens me the level of cowardice shown by Boehner and the other House GOP. They are so scared of something they don't support succeeding, that they are willing to actively harm the US Government and Economy to just put on a show about it.
They know they can't repeal it, because they've tried. They know that in a couple years, even with the Senate they won't be able to repeal it because of the filibuster. They know in a couple years, people won't care about repealing it. Because all they operate in now is theoretical fear. The theory that your premiums will skyrocket, that you'll lose your job, that some poor person might be able to avoid being in debt the rest of their life because of a Gall Bladder Infection.
And to think, we're not even having this fight in an actual, normal, rational way. We're having it as a fight over the goddamn economy of the United States.
And so, we see the shutdown, and what is the main point of the GOP? Benghazi and a fucking memorial. Showponies, the lot of them. Bunch of empty-hearted shitbags who won't even vote on a clean bill.
And that's the most annoying part. They won't vote on the bill, because they know it'll pass. They fear a primary from some no-name idiot because they can't think of a way to justify PAYING FOR THEIR GODDAMN BILLS.
Idiots.
Running on impeaching a President for protecting the credit of the United States and the US Economy because you refuse to pay your bills would go down as the stupidest platform ever. Good luck with that.
Running on impeaching a President for protecting the credit of the United States and the US Economy because you refuse to pay your bills would go down as the stupidest platform ever. Good luck with that.
@JohnJHarwood 4m
In intvw, tried to get Pres Obama to address "constitutional option" to raise debt limit himself, which he previously ruled out. He wouldn't
Doesn't the 14th amendment have a "authorized by law" qualifier. How does it work?
The coin I understand.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Dude, they just might (if not everything, a LOT of things). Obama has a big decision to make if this continues to go south. Even with the 14th/Constitutional option there are risks associated with that because it would be pretty fucking unprecedented.
BAD sign. Just before the shutdown King was thinking GOPers just needed to get this out of their system and then we'd finally get to clean CR. Now, look at where we are...
And even if Boehner is seriously that stupid... is everyone else that stupid? Is Obama that stupid? Even if ignoring the debt limit is legally speaking, 100% ILLEGAL, you think anyone is looking to be the one angelic politician left that kicked off the apocalypse? Ya'll silly.Jesus fucking christ chill out. There's literally no fucking way Boehner sits back and lets the global economy blow up because he's afraid of 30 junior/sophomore tea party congressmen.
I'm starting to think the government might be closed for weeks, but I'm not concerned at all about a default. Remember back in 2011 when the markets started panicking, and shortly thereafter an agreement was reached/Obama caved? That's going to happen here...except this time, presumably, Obama won't cave. Literally all Boehner needs to do is schedule the vote. To believe we'll default is to believe one man will refuse to allow a vote on whether the global economy should blow up or not.
Jesus fucking christ chill out. There's literally no fucking way Boehner sits back and lets the global economy blow up because he's afraid of 30 junior/sophomore tea party congressmen.
I'm starting to think the government might be closed for weeks, but I'm not concerned at all about a default. Remember back in 2011 when the markets started panicking, and shortly thereafter an agreement was reached/Obama caved? That's going to happen here...except this time, presumably, Obama won't cave. Literally all Boehner needs to do is schedule the vote. To believe we'll default is to believe one man will refuse to allow a vote on whether the global economy should blow up or not.
Jesus fucking christ chill out. There's literally no fucking way Boehner sits back and lets the global economy blow up because he's afraid of 30 junior/sophomore tea party congressmen.
I'm starting to think the government might be closed for weeks, but I'm not concerned at all about a default. Remember back in 2011 when the markets started panicking, and shortly thereafter an agreement was reached/Obama caved? That's going to happen here...except this time, presumably, Obama won't cave. Literally all Boehner needs to do is schedule the vote. To believe we'll default is to believe one man will refuse to allow a vote on whether the global economy should blow up or not.
At a closed-door lunch meeting in the Senates Mansfield Room, Republican after Republican pressed Cruz to explain how he would propose to end the bitter budget impasse with Democrats, according to senators who attended the meeting. A defensive Cruz had no clear plan to force an end to the shutdown or explain how he would defund Obamacare, as he has demanded all along, sources said.
Things got particularly heated when Cruz was asked point-blank if he would renounce attacks waged on GOP senators by the Senate Conservatives Fund, an outside group that has aligned itself closely with the Texas senator.
Cruzs response: I will not, according to an attendee.
...
And they took great exception by Cruz and his allies in outside groups like the Senate Conservatives Fund to portray them as weak on Obamcare even though the party has furiously battled the law since the beginning of the presidents term in office.
The entire effort has been totally disingenuous, the senator said.
A spokesman for SCF rejected the criticism.
If these senators had pledged to oppose funding for Obamacare, we wouldnt have had to run ads against them, said Executive Director Matt Hoskins. They only have themselves to blame.
This is definitely a valid point. Don't give them any idea they can pass the buck on this unless they actually clamp down and do it.I mean, I wouldn't tip my hand on the 14th amendment if I were Obama. I don't want to give the Republicans an out to continue being petulant. Keep all the pressure on them.
I still say Boehner caves when the DL is reached but my odds have changed drastically. I was once 99% sure of this, now more like 75%.
And yes, he may be willing to do that. The GOP is not rational and I fear Boehner values his position more than anything else. I sure hope not and expect not, but man...who fucking knows with these clowns anymore?
Well there's the third option of a debt ceiling raise but a multi month shutdown. Perhaps that's still possible?