Gerrymandering reform?
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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smokeandmirrors
Banned
Gerrymandering reform?
That's what we need in the long term, as far as breaking the Tea Party's stranglehold on the GOP so we can go back to not fighting over if we should commit economic suicide we need another solution.
RustyNails
Member
So Boehner's legacy would be reducing the GOP to a southern white party, on top of shutting down the govt? You know that Immigration Reform doesn't pass before 2016, GOP is doomed right? Pretty much every Republican realizes this except diehard teapartiers. You give Boehner too much credit but not enough to foresee this?Immigration is dead. Especially after this debt fiasco ends and Boehner is neutered.
The Librarian
Banned
So Boehner's legacy would be reducing the GOP to a southern white party, on top of shutting down the govt? You know that Immigration Reform doesn't pass before 2016, GOP is doomed right? Pretty much every Republican realizes this except diehard teapartiers. You give Boehner too much credit but not enough to foresee this?
Boehner won't bring up immigration for the same reasons we're in this mess.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Are you questioning the Grand Ideology, Comrade?
Immigration is dead. Especially after this debt fiasco ends and Boehner is neutered.
Would the GOP risk going into 2016 with immigration as an issue Dems can run on? I highly doubt it...
Aaron Strife
Banned
Have we ever had a recession brought upon sheerly by one party deliberately fucking with the economy? Especially when that party isn't in power.Doubtful. I don't think you understand the sheer magnitude of what would happen if we default. People ultimately blame the president for economic hardship. If we enter a depression due to this, sure republican support will plummet. But that doesn't mean Obama will have decent approval ratings as the economy implodes, people lose their jobs, etc.
And let's not forget that the media has been pretty consistent with a "both sides to blame" narrative. It's not working right now, obviously. But perhaps that changes if unemployment hits 10% and the dollar becomes useless.
In any case I think if it comes to it either Boehner will blink or Obama will invoke the 14th. If the GOP wants to impeach him over that, let them, there's no way it'll get through the Senate and they'll look like petulant brats.
The Librarian
Banned
A full-scale default is without precedence, especially one brought on in this fashion. There's no telling whom the public will blame.
GOP is in civil war mode broWould the GOP risk going into 2016 with immigration as an issue Dems can run on? I highly doubt it...
PhoenixDark
Banned
A default would collapse the US economy. No president can withstand that, popularity wise.
And if this is where we are that is a pretty shitty place to be. We've gone from "Boehner has assured everyone the country won't default" to this. It is hard to believe reports of him coming around when right after that he goes on national television and completely denounces the notion that he's assured people he won't allow default in any circumstance.In any case I think if it comes to it either Boehner will blink or Obama will invoke the 14th. If the GOP wants to impeach him over that, let them, there's no way it'll get through the Senate and they'll look like petulant brats.
Obama has not made me feel confident whatsoever that he'd use the 14th/mint a coin. Boehner is apparently forgetting about July when Reid conceded to the GOP's $-70b spending measure. That is huge. He is living in his own little world and not caring.
Is it safe to say everyone is entitled to be Diablosing now?
Even if, in the event of a default, Obama does take a good chunk of the blame, so will Republicans/Tea Party.
And then you would have the infighting in those groups that would lead to more downfall for them.
So, Obama might not be remembered so fondly, but it will hopefully be the end of Republicans having a stranglehold on democracy.
And then you would have the infighting in those groups that would lead to more downfall for them.
So, Obama might not be remembered so fondly, but it will hopefully be the end of Republicans having a stranglehold on democracy.
A default would collapse theUSWorld economy. No president can withstand that, popularity wise.
It may also signal the end of the Dollar as a significant reserve currency. Hell it might shake it's standing as a hard currency, though I really don't expect it to end it.
Is it safe to say everyone is entitled to be Diablosing now?
I'm not going to bother. If the House Republicans are willing to commit economic euthanasia on the world economy then there's nothing I can do that I haven't already done. It's not worth stressing over before it's happened.
googleplex
Member
A full-scale default is without precedence, especially one brought on in this fashion. There's no telling whom the public will blame.
It'll never come to that, because cause if it did, Obama would mint that Trillion dollar coin.
That's hard if Democrats implode as well. Either way the incumbent President does no favors for his party in something this unprecedented. Hillary Clinton simply having a (D) next to her name could negate any gains she has over contenders, and would certainly put moderates like Christie over the top, who outside of being a Governor looks more like an outsider to DC Democrats like Obama and Clinton.Even if, in the event of a default, Obama does take a good chunk of the blame, so will Republicans/Tea Party.
And then you would have the infighting in those groups that would lead to more downfall for them.
So, Obama might not be remembered so fondly, but it will hopefully be the end of Republicans having a stranglehold on democracy.
I do not think you are seriously thinking through the implications of a default. It will basically invalidate the slow, fragile yet steady progress we have made over the past five years. And it will wreck the world economy as well, shredding all the progress we've made in restoring the world's respect for the US since the Bush years.
Basically it will all but erase the Obama Presidency and future political prospects for Democrats.
Lew and Obama have completely ruled out that option, as well as the 14th Amendment. To think otherwise, or to suggest that it would be a last-ditch effort, is wishful thinking. They have gone as far as saying their lawyers told them it flat out would not work. It would be hard to walk back from those statements particularly when such actions would go right to the courts during an impeachment campaign against the Pres.It'll never come to that, because cause if it did, Obama would mint that Trillion dollar coin.
That's hard if Democrats implode as well. Either way the incumbent President does no favors for his party in something this unprecedented. Hillary Clinton simply having a (D) next to her name could negate any gains she has over contenders, and would certainly put moderates like Christie over the top, who outside of being a Governor looks more like an outsider to DC Democrats like Obama and Clinton.
I do not think you are seriously thinking through the implications of a default. It will basically erase the slow, fragile yet steady progress we have made over the past five years. And it will wreck the world economy as well, shredding all the progress we've made in restoring the world's respect for the US since the Bush years.
Basically it will all but erase the Obama Presidency and future political prospects for Democrats.
Do you ever get tired of immediately believing that the worst possible result of any situation no matter how unlikely it is will be the one to happen?
That's hard if Democrats implode as well. Either way the incumbent President does no favors for his party in something this unprecedented. Hillary Clinton simply having a (D) next to her name could negate any gains she has over contenders, and would certainly put moderates like Christie over the top, who outside of being a Governor looks more like an outsider to DC Democrats like Obama and Clinton.
I do not think you are seriously thinking through the implications of a default. It will basically erase the slow, fragile yet steady progress we have made over the past five years. And it will wreck the world economy as well, shredding all the progress we've made in restoring the world's respect for the US since the Bush years.
Basically it will all but erase the Obama Presidency and future political prospects for Democrats.
I agree that a Default is bad. And I'd rather it not happen. But acting like it will only hurt Democrats and not Republicans is not correct. We've already seen much of the country turn towards Democratic leaders and more each day.
We've also seen the people put a majority of the blame on Boehner and the Republicans.
Democrats will come out of this the better of the two parties, if it were to happen.
jamesinclair
Banned
For more than a decade, Rep. Devin Nunes has been about as reliably Republican as they come.
Never one to shy away from controversy or to speak his mind, the Tulare Republican has openly touted a conservative political agenda.
Hes called opponents of a new reservoir above Lake Millerton radical environmentalists.
Hes clashed with congressional Democrats and spent a good amount of campaign cash waging a political war against Sen. Dianne Feinstein.
In his book titled Restoring the Republic, Nunes said environmental lobbyists were followers of neo-Marxist, socialist, Maoist or Communist ideals. Global warming claims were called hysteria spread by a Doomsday cult.
This week, however, the seemingly impossible happened: Nunes has been attacked by some Republicans especially Tea Party Republicans for not being far enough to the political right.
Hes since been called a sellout, a capitulator and, a favorite of Republicans who feel some politician isnt holding up the partys principles, a RINO or Republican In Name Only.
It all came after Nunes referred to his hard-line Republican House colleagues as lemmings with suicide vests for letting the government shut down over opposition to the Affordable Care Act, otherwise known as Obamacare.
For the record, Nunes opposes the law. But he thinks shutting down the government over it is a losing strategy for his party, and one that could hurt it politically in the long run.
All Im doing is stating the obvious, that we dont have the votes. Nunes said in an interview. Im now a RINO because I can count.
In other words, the Senate isnt supportive of the Houses strategy to shut down the government over Obamacare, and even if it was supportive, there arent the votes there to override a veto by President Barack Obama.
Nunes been attacked by fellow Republicans in the media, in calls to his office and even on his Facebook page. People are threatening that hell get a political challenger from his own right next year.
Michael Der Manouel Jr., a Fresno businessman and conservative Republican, doesnt question Nunes conservative credentials, and certainly doesnt consider him a Republican In Name Only.
But, he does say that Nunes needs to choose his words more carefully when hes not happy with whatever (Republican) strategy is going on.
And he sounds like some of Nunes Facebook critics when he says Nunes should stop worrying about tactics and start worrying about your country. It is, Der Manouel says, a political face-off against rival Democrats, and so Nunes must stand firm for as long as necessary.
But Nunes is equally adamant that it is a losing strategy for his party, in which shutdown supporters have no end game or alternative solution.
This is bad for those of us trying to work on reforms, he said.
David Schecter, a Fresno State political science professor, thinks that Nunes is able to speak his mind because he is politically safe not only from Democrats, but from ultra-conservative Republicans as well.
His district is solidly Republican, and Nunes has the fundraising prowess and a campaign war chest to ward off anyone who might attack from the right next year, Schecter said.
Hes basically as protected as they get, Schecter said.
http://news.fresnobeehive.com/
RustyNails
Member
dax got banned? PD what have you done
And this is why Boehner refuses to fold. The same thing will happen to him and everyone else who votes for a clean CR.
Also, what'd Dax get banned for? I don't see anything recently.
dax got banned? PD what have you done
She says it was a perm.
That's hard if Democrats implode as well. Either way the incumbent President does no favors for his party in something this unprecedented. Hillary Clinton simply having a (D) next to her name could negate any gains she has over contenders, and would certainly put moderates like Christie over the top, who outside of being a Governor looks more like an outsider to DC Democrats like Obama and Clinton.
I do not think you are seriously thinking through the implications of a default. It will basically invalidate the slow, fragile yet steady progress we have made over the past five years. And it will wreck the world economy as well, shredding all the progress we've made in restoring the world's respect for the US since the Bush years.
Basically it will all but erase the Obama Presidency and future political prospects for Democrats.
Lew and Obama have completely ruled out that option, as well as the 14th Amendment. To think otherwise, or to suggest that it would be a last-ditch effort, is wishful thinking. They have gone as far as saying their lawyers told them it flat out would not work. It would be hard to walk back from those statements particularly when such actions would go right to the courts during an impeachment campaign against the Pres.
You have to be tired of dealing in absolutes. A person can't live a semi decent life like that.
IMO Obama invoking the 14th, and then another failed impeachment episode would only further destroy the GOP and would all but guarantee a dem controlled House next year.
TacticalFox88
Banned
And this is why Boehner refuses to fold. The same thing will happen to him and everyone else who votes for a clean CR.
Also, what'd Dax get banned for? I don't see anything recently.
She says it was a perm.
What?! NO. NOT DAX!?
:__;!
Who, me? I usually do not deal in absolutes.You have to be tired of dealing in absolutes. A person can't live a semi decent life like that.
IMO Obama invoking the 14th, and then another failed impeachment episode would only further destroy the GOP and would all but guarantee a dem controlled House next year.
btw we are at 360 pages, isn't it time for a new thread?
TacticalFox88
Banned
Who, me? I usually do not deal in absolutes.
Good, so you're not a Sith.
Who, me? I usually do not deal in absolutes.
Then why are you doing it here? Obama and Lew saying no to the 14th is nothing but avoiding giving the GOP an out. Obama won't let a default happen and as a Democrat I'd welcome the circus of a failed impeachment hearing.
Who, me? I usually do not deal in absolutes.
btw we are at 360 pages, isn't it time for a new thread?
We've still got 2000 posts to go. We're good for another week.
What?! NO. NOT DAX!?
:__;!
Yea, it's what she said.
what is that emoticon anyway?
Can you link me to anything beyond your suspicion that he'd change his position at the last minute and use the 14th/Treasury?Then why are you doing it here? Obama and Lew saying no to the 14th is nothing but avoiding giving the GOP an out. Obama won't let a default happen and as a Democrat I'd welcome the circus of a failed impeachment hearing.
I'm not dealing in absolutes here, I'm referring to statements made by Lew and Obama themselves... no more, no less.
Bill Clinton and Nancy Pelosi have gone so far as pubically stating they think the President is being unwise for not exploring that option. I don't think they are acting, and I think they are privvy to a lot of things that happen (particularly Pelosi).
TacticalFox88
Banned
;__;We've still got 2000 posts to go. We're good for another week.
Yea, it's what she said.
what is that emoticon anyway?
It's basically tears rolling down the face. Two semicolons.
Can you link me to anything beyond your suspicion that he'd change his position at the last minute and use the 14th/Treasury?
I'm not dealing in absolutes here, I'm referring to statements made by the White House... no more, no less.
Taking statements at face value is fallacious. PR is PR. Saying that you only believe what you read is why you freak out all the time. I don't have a statement to back up my suspicion, but a statement saying "we are only saying this to not give the GOP an excuse" kinda defeats the purpose.
I don't think the coin is a viable option, I think that the administration would rather a bitter battle end up by just invalidating the entirety of the debt ceiling instead of a coin trick
I also don't think that Boehner wouldn't bring a clean raise to the floor because he DOES have the votes.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I wonder...hypothetically if Obama were to use the 14th amendment and republicans wanted to filibuster, would Boehner allow a vote?
internet: serious business apparently.dax got banned? PD what have you done
But at 77%, we should have shut down a few thousand posts ago.We've still got 2000 posts to go. We're good for another week.
But at 77%, we should have shut down a few thousand posts ago.
Eh, it's not like we're growing overly fast or something. Most of the other community threads I frequent don't bother making a new one this early unless they know something big is coming that they're going to want to post about.
Can you link me to anything beyond your suspicion that he'd change his position at the last minute and use the 14th/Treasury?
I'm not dealing in absolutes here, I'm referring to statements made by Lew and Obama themselves... no more, no less.
Bill Clinton and Nancy Pelosi have gone so far as pubically stating they think the President is being unwise for not exploring that option. I don't think they are acting, and I think they are privvy to a lot of things that happen (particularly Pelosi).
Obama probably thinks that if he puts them on the table it will act as a signal to the Tea Party that they could chose not to raise the ceiling. I think he'd just rather things happen the way they always have, which I disagree with. I'd rather ditch the debt ceiling all together.
The meltdown of the world economy, brought to you by a bunch of elephants
Yea but it's happening in slo-mo.
Eh, it's not like we're growing overly fast or something. Most of the other community threads I frequent don't bother making a new one this early unless they know something big is coming that they're going to want to post about.
The meltdown of the world economy, brought to you by a bunch of elephants
TacticalFox88
Banned
PoliGAF 2013 lOTl Shameless Shutdown Shodowns
PoliGAF 2013 lOTl Shameless Shutdown Shodowns
Oh that's good. That's really good.
zero shift
Banned
dax got banned? PD what have you done
Not too surprised. She has been acting a bit rude toward people lately on here which is strangely out of character for her.
Though in terms of the immediate post history nothing stands out. Maybe something she did a few days ago? Maybe she requested to be permed. Its all up in the air.
I kind of wish a government shutdown actually meant a government shutdown. No TSA, no flight controllers, no CBP, etc etc. Otherwise these wackos never see the true impact.
It did not to long ago, right? And then the Republicans passed a law that reopened the TSA so they could get home.
Aaron Strife
Banned
PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| Boehner Strokes His Caucus
Manmademan
Member
Not too surprised. She has been acting a bit rude toward people lately on here which is strangely out of character for her.
Though in terms of the immediate post history nothing stands out. Maybe something she did a few days ago? Maybe she requested to be permed. Its all up in the air.
agree. she's been a bit touchy lately, but I've been WAY worse when someone gets my dander up. I wonder what it was.
cartoon_soldier
Member
It did not to long ago, right? And then the Republicans passed a law that reopened the TSA so they could get home.
No, just some of the staff may be furloughed so wait times for things may increase at the airports.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Not too surprised. She has been acting a bit rude toward people lately on here which is strangely out of character for her.
Gonna disagree with that. Dax was rude and disingenuous all year.
also
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/360491/king-wont-sign-discharge-petition-clean-cr-andrew-stilesKing Won’t Sign Discharge Petition for ‘Clean’ CR
Representative Peter King (R., N.Y.), a vocal critic of the GOP’s conservative wing, has publicly said he would back a “clean” funding bill to end the government shutdown. But he will not back an effort from House Democrats to force a vote on one.
King told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace that he would not sign a Democratic “discharge petition” that would automatically bring a clean CR to the floor — only a handful of Republicans’ signatures would be required to reach the 218-vote majority.
“It’s not going to go anywhere,” King said of the discharge petition. “Democrats are not bargaining in good faith.”
President Obama “has an obligation to get involved” and negotiate with Republicans, he said.
The Huffington Post has wasted a lot of time tracking these magical 20 republicans. I support Pelosi trying...but it's not gonna work. A "moderate" republican is always going to be the establishment media's best friend, and I think Peter King and others are using this as PR to serve their own interests.
haha. +1PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| Boehner Strokes His Caucus
I think we're all hoping he thinks that, but it remains to be seen.B-Dubs said:Obama probably thinks that if he puts them on the table it will act as a signal to the Tea Party that they could chose not to raise the ceiling. I think he'd just rather things happen the way they always have, which I disagree with. I'd rather ditch the debt ceiling all together.
How would he even use the 14th Amendment?
Manmademan
Member
Gonna disagree with that. Dax was rude and disingenuous all year.
also
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/360491/king-wont-sign-discharge-petition-clean-cr-andrew-stiles
The Huffington Post has wasted a lot of time tracking these magical 20 republicans. I support Pelosi trying...but it's not gonna work. A "moderate" republican is always going to be the establishment media's best friend, and I think Peter King and others are using this as PR to serve their own interests.
Here I'll disagree with you. Holding out has already damaged several vulnerable republicans, and all things considered it appears it's only going to get worse for those representatives the longer this goes on.
The listed republicans have a lot more to fear from democratic opposition than they do from getting primaried by the tea party.
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