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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Jooney said:
More than the number of republicans who voted for the ACA, I think? That could make a great point.
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Who cares only one party passed it. A clear majority of American representatives enacted it. And it was 0 they were in rebellion, the point being even if certain views don't play a part in voting for law it doesn't make it less of a law. When they came back into the nation they played by the rules and laws established.
 
B

bananas

Banned
Well since there only seems to be guys left in PoliGAF now, I think it's a good time to start a committee on women's health.
 
J

Jooney

Member
APKmetsfan said:
Who cares only one party passed it. A clear majority of American representatives enacted it. And it was 0 they were in rebellion, the point being even if certain views don't play a part in voting for law it doesn't make it less of a law. When they came back into the nation they played by the rules and laws established.
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Dude, we are the same page.

I'm just musing the fact they might have more opposition to the ACA than there was to the 13th amendment. Which is hilarious. And sad.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Jooney said:
Dude, we are the same page.

I'm just musing the fact they might have more opposition to the ACA than there was to the 13th amendment. Which is hilarious. And sad.
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I wasnt responding really to you just that conservative meme that they weren't represented in the law.

I read this silly article the other day saying its the democrats fault there was such opposition to the law because they shut out republicans and their ideas. Its completely opposite of what happened I remember watching that round table thing on CSPAN there were so many attempts to get republican support, they rejected all of it.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
bonercop said:
interesting interview, thanks for posting it. it's very amusing to me that Scalia's daily routine and habits sounds exactly like what I imagine a stereotypical tea-party type to be.
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Yeah it really makes it clear why his opinions come out the way they do, dude is clearly a political figure first and foremost. Embarrassed that he's on the highest court in the land mainly for his views on homosexuality, culture , and women. And really flogging is constitutional? No 8th amendment?
 
J

Jooney

Member
APKmetsfan said:
I wasnt responding really to you just that conservative meme that they weren't represented in the law.

I read this silly article the other day saying its the democrats fault there was such opposition to the law because they shut out republicans and their ideas. Its completely opposite of what happened I remember watching that round table thing on CSPAN there were so many attempts to get republican support, they rejected all of it.
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Yep. It's a dumb meme that only works on those who haven't been paying attention. The democrats made concession after concession to get the bill out if committee and onto the floor. I remember guys like GhaleonEB went into meticulous detail about the progress of the bill and who was holding up what (that includes blue dog Dems). It bet it makes him want to pull out his hair when he reads that the Dems "rammed the bill through" without garnering a single GOP vote.

Bottom line: if a health care bill that was the GOP alternative to the Clinton plan, that was based on the model created by a right wing think tank, and that was implemented by a republican Governor can't get a single vote from the republicans in congress, it says more about the Republican Party than it does the Democratic Party.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Quantity =/= quality.

Dax always posted a ton, but so much of it was from an authoritarian and men-are-inherently-worse than women viewpoint, it got a bit tiring. We had our disagreements during the election and she had mostly calmed down her BS (back when I thought she was a 14-year old boy), but it is interesting to see her get banned now.

Jooney said:
Yep. It's a dumb meme that only works on those who haven't been paying attention. The democrats made concession after concession to get the bill out if committee and onto the floor. I remember guys like GhaleonEB went into meticulous detail about the progress of the bill and who was holding up what (that includes blue dog Dems). It bet it makes him want to pull out his hair when he reads that the Dems "rammed the bill through" without garnering a single GOP vote.

Bottom line: if a health care bill that was the GOP alternative to the Clinton plan, that was based on the model created by a right wing think tank, and that was implemented by a republican Governor can't get a single vote from the republicans in congress, it says more about the Republican Party than it does the Democratic Party.
Click to expand...

The democrats are mostly spineless lemmings who wait for a rockstar to do anything before making a move? The Republicans have completely and irrationally gone extremists in almost any and all positions. It doesn't help that Dems entertain the notion of trying to work with savages.
 
R

remist

Member
APKmetsfan said:
http://nymag.com/news/features/antonin-scalia-2013-10/
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Thanks for the link.

Lol at how defensive he gets about his belief that the devil is actively at work. Like we should automatically respect his supernatural beliefs, simply because the majority of Americans also hold the same belief. And early in the interview he proudly declares that he is careful to question his assumptions when too many people agree with him.

It also scares me how certain he is that he will know when it's time for him to step down. We won't be rid of him for many years no manner how diminished he gets.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
remist said:
Thanks for the link.

Lol at how defensive he is about his belief that the devil is actively at work. Like we should automatically respect his supernatural beliefs, simply because the majority of Americans also hold the same belief. And early in the interview he proudly declares that he is careful to question his assumptions when too many people agree with him.

It also scares me how certain he is that he will know when it's time for him to step down. We won't be rid of him for many years no manner how diminished he gets.
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Seeing as how no Republican is going to win the White House in the foreseeable future, it doesn't really matter. The court is going to swing left over the next 10+ years. It will be too late for people who have no business handing out traffic convictions, much less supreme court decisions, namely Scalia and Thomas.
 
B

Bam Bam Baklava

Member
AlteredBeast said:
Seeing as how no Republican is going to win the White House in the foreseeable future, it doesn't really matter. The court is going to swing left over the next 10+ years. It will be too late for people who have no business handing out traffic convictions, much less supreme court decisions, namely Scalia and Thomas.
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Whoa man let's not be so sure.
 
A

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Style Fox said:
Whoa man let's not be so sure.
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Meh. At least not the foreseeable future...

The only visible members of the Republican Party that are not totally morally reprehensible, namely Christie, Portman, Huntsman, etc. will all be cannibalized by the extreme-conservative wing of the GOP, who will seek to nominate guaranteed losers like Cruz, Bachmann, Ryan, etc.

Unless the GOP wakes up and boots out the crazies all of a sudden. I just don't see it.
 
J

Jeels

Member
Cloudy said:
Would the GOP risk going into 2016 with immigration as an issue Dems can run on? I highly doubt it...
Click to expand...

Legitimate question:

So I completely think there are huge racist undertones in the Republican party and their actions and words speak loudly (it's why the Asian American community continues to trend democratic despite being conservative in nature and affluent), but why are the democrats immune to being called out on immigration? They too have now ran on it multiple times and nothing has gotten done (yes, due to republican obstructionism, but still, won't people be disappointed?)

I mean, the entire whole "REPUBLICANS WILL DEF PASSEDI MIGRATION" early in 2013 was so silly and stupid to me, mainly because I didn't buy that anyone that voted Democrat in 2012 would suddenly vote republican in 2016 purely based off their 180 on this, it just reeked of being sleezy.

But at the same time, won't enthusiasm among the Hispanic community be low after "Si se puede" and essentially no results?
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
So hold up. What's this about the 17 republican house votes the dems suddenly got. That enough? Any sign a "clean CR" is gonna come to a vote with that?
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
APKmetsfan said:
The obsession that it was passed without republican votes annoys me too. It ignores how republicans rejected every attempt to make the bill more to their liking.
Click to expand...

Michelle Bachmann has actually changed up her strategy around this it seems. The last couple of interviews I've seen from her she has made a point of calling out the 19 amendments that Obama has supposedly made via Executive Order or whatever (I have no idea if this is true or not), suggesting that "it is no longer the bill that we passed into law" referencing the House, suggesting it was some kind of bi-partisan effort where the Republicans compromised but that Obama has since corrupted.
 
R

Riki

Member
RedSwirl said:
So hold up. What's this about the 17 republican house votes the dems suddenly got. That enough? Any sign a "clean CR" is gonna come to a vote with that?
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Based on what we're hearing, any Clean CR would pass instantly if it was brought to a vote. Which is why it hasn't been.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
RedSwirl said:
So hold up. What's this about the 17 republican house votes the dems suddenly got. That enough? Any sign a "clean CR" is gonna come to a vote with that?
Click to expand...

No, apparently more than 20 repubs support a clean CR, but they aren't actually villing to vote that way when push comes to shove.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
So now I'm terrified.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/get-ready-it-s-going-to-happen

The Post has a profile in motion of freshman House Republican Ted Yoho (FL). The focus is how he's part of the faction who forced John Boehner to trigger the government shutdown and now wants to move along to default on the national debt. How bad will default be? "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," Yoho told the Post.

Absorb that for a moment. He's on the team that's driving this bus. What would at best be a huge jolt to the global economy and more likely trigger a global financial crisis and do irreparable harm to the country, he thinks will actually improve things.
Click to expand...


Link to the Post article: http://m.washingtonpost.com/politics/for-ted-yoho-government-shutdown-is-the-tremor-before-the-tsunami/2013/10/04/98b5aa8c-2c3c-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_print.html
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Ultimately one of the consequences of this debt fiasco is the confirmed death of immigration. Sure, it's "dead" right now but I figured the House would pull some type of stunt to put the blame on democrats. For instance: pass some type of draconian bill that doesn't have a pathway to citizenship, go to conference and refuse to budge on anything....then blame Obama for not compromising, not being a leader, etc. But with a couple weeks Boehner will pretty much be a powerless, unless Obama saves him with a concession. And without Boehner or any push from leadership, it's hard to see republicans doing anything about immigration.
 
R

remist

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
They had a chance to do that last week and they didn't right?
Click to expand...

There was a procedural vote that would allow a clean CR to the floor, but they refused to vote for that. Apparently they will vote for a clean CR if the speaker puts if forward but they won't defy him while he's still trying to get Obama to capitulate.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
PhoenixPause said:
Ultimately one of the consequences of this debt fiasco is the confirmed death of immigration. Sure, it's "dead" right now but I figured the House would pull some type of stunt to put the blame on democrats. For instance: pass some type of draconian bill that doesn't have a pathway to citizenship, go to conference and refuse to budge on anything....then blame Obama for not compromising, not being a leader, etc. But with a couple weeks Boehner will pretty much be a powerless, unless Obama saves him with a concession. And without Boehner or any push from leadership, it's hard to see republicans doing anything about immigration.
Click to expand...
Heh. Obama should offer his immigration plan in exchange for a clean CR and debt ceiling raise
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Chichikov said:
Spoiler, a bit vague but a spoiler nonetheless, someone who remember the game chapters can tell you how far you need to be into the game - *Spoiler tag doesn't work here for some reason*
Click to expand...
Just beat the game. The thing is
It was clearly showing the revolution through the lens of what far left revolutions tended to become. Fitzroy ordered the soldiers to kill citizens on sight, murder children and indoctrinate the ones they felt like. Its one of my biggest complaints on the game. We only got to saw so little of this, but what little we saw was horrifying.
I will agree that I would much rather have Fitzroy in charge than Comstock. Then again we weren't really shown how far Fitzroy would go.

EDIT - I admit that I laughed when Elizabeth was shocked with people being killed. Its fucking revolution!
 
J

Jooney

Member
zero shift said:
So I beat Bioshock Infinite. I feel just like Evilore. Great story, bad gameplay.

Also why did
they drown Booker? He was the same as Comstock? What?


The thing is
It was clearly showing the revolution through the lens of what far left revolutions tended to become. Fitzroy ordered the soldiers to kill citizens on sight, murder children and indoctrinate the ones they felt like. Its one of my biggest complaints on the game. We only got to saw so little of this, but what little we saw was horrifying.
Click to expand...

Go read the gaming community OT for the full spoiler discussion. Lots of answers there.
 
T

TheHeretic

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
Ultimately one of the consequences of this debt fiasco is the confirmed death of immigration. Sure, it's "dead" right now but I figured the House would pull some type of stunt to put the blame on democrats. For instance: pass some type of draconian bill that doesn't have a pathway to citizenship, go to conference and refuse to budge on anything....then blame Obama for not compromising, not being a leader, etc. But with a couple weeks Boehner will pretty much be a powerless, unless Obama saves him with a concession. And without Boehner or any push from leadership, it's hard to see republicans doing anything about immigration.
Click to expand...

Immigration would be humane in some ways, but it was also put downward pressure on the cost of labour in a country where the cost of labour is too low to begin with. Its great politics for the Dems, less than great policy.

Immigration is unlikely to help republicans anyway. Immigrants from Latin America tend to be poorer and younger than the average American, not a winning demographic for the GOP.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
zero shift said:
Just beat the game. The thing is
It was clearly showing the revolution through the lens of what far left revolutions tended to become. Fitzroy ordered the soldiers to kill citizens on sight, murder children and indoctrinate the ones they felt like. Its one of my biggest complaints on the game. We only got to saw so little of this, but what little we saw was horrifying.
I will agree that I would much rather have Fitzroy in charge than Comstock. Then again we weren't really shown how far Fitzroy would go.

EDIT - I admit that I laughed when Elizabeth was shocked with people being killed. Its fucking revolution!
Click to expand...
I fucking hated that scene, it reeked of "both sides are just as bad" bullshit.
You can show killing citizens, you can make a game about the consequences of a violent revolution, fuck, you can even construct a narrative about a struggle where both sides are equally bad.
But the game did none of that, there were obviously good guys and bad guys, but then they lost their balls to completely follow through on their class conflict message so they had the leader of the revolution murder two little kids with a knife in a close-up.
 
M

Megadragon15

Member
Jooney said:
So politico is saying that Cruz wants it tie Obamacare to the debt ceiling.

Some men just want to see the world burn.
Click to expand...

The worst thing about Cruz is that if he destroys the US financially, he could always emigrate back to Canada and not suffer any of the consequences.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
TheHeretic said:
Immigration would be humane in some ways, but it was also put downward pressure on the cost of labour in a country where the cost of labour is too low to begin with. Its great politics for the Dems, less than great policy.

Immigration is unlikely to help republicans anyway. Immigrants from Latin America tend to be poorer and younger than the average American, not a winning demographic for the GOP.
Click to expand...
The immigrants are already here and working illegally which is cheaper than official work. How would it put downward pressure on labor?
 
T

TheHeretic

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
The immigrants are already here and working illegally which is cheaper than official work. How would it put downward pressure on labor?
Click to expand...

Because a potential solution is to tackle businesses hiring illegal immigrants to cut off supply. The US has no obligation to foster enormous numbers of immigrants from a (relatively speaking) well off Mexico. No other developed countries operate their immigration policy this way. Remember that as these immigrants are given citizenship invariably immigrants from Asia and Africa, who are much poorer, will be turned away.

This is about the democratic party locking down a demographic they know will be very sympathetic to them. And I think they are trying to do the humane thing, but a virtue (and vice) of Conservatism is that it can be much harsher than Liberalism.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
CygnusXS said:
He renounced his Canadian citizenship I believe. So, haha suckers.
Click to expand...

Not yet he hasn't. He said he has, but apparently due to some paperwork malfunction or whatever (apparently they can't find his mom's papers, is I think what happened) he's still yours.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
B-Dubs said:
Not yet he hasn't. He said he has, but apparently due to some paperwork malfunction or whatever (apparently they can't find his mom's papers, is I think what happened) he's still yours.
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Well, it doesn't matter. Doubt he would come back. We're not taking Bieber back either.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Chichikov said:
I fucking hated that scene, it reeked of "both sides are just as bad" bullshit.
You can show killing citizens, you can make a game about the consequences of a violent revolution, fuck, you can even construct a narrative about a struggle where both sides are equally bad.
But the game did none of that, there were obviously good guys and bad guys, but then they lost their balls to completely follow through on their class conflict message so they had the leader of the revolution murder two little kids with a knife in a close-up.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. It could have been handled amazingly but they dropped it. They were literally just typical baddies after like five minutes.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
if you make us take bieber then we get michael j fox.

anyway, i wonder if there's one out for boehner, pr wise, and that would be to appear as saviors at the last minute. something to the effect of republicans rising above the mess and doing what is right for the country even if democrats won't negotiate.
 
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