b-b-b-but gerrymandering
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Manmademan
Member
gerrymandering is the only reason PA-07 is republican in the first place.
I live right next door to it (literally) and am FURTHER away from philadelphia than PA-07, yet i'm in the same congressional district as north philadelphia an hour away.
That district was blatantly drawn to lump as many suburban democrats into PA-01 (a big chunk of philadelphia) as possible.
The Librarian
Banned
Too bad Obama can't call for an election right now.
But, hey! The Constitution is perfect and we shouldn't question it. The Founders are infinitely wise.
But, hey! The Constitution is perfect and we shouldn't question it. The Founders are infinitely wise.
TacticalFox88
Banned
I wonder if those who think the Constitution is perfect, forget we had to change it 27 times to reflect the current needs of the country.
>.>
Manmademan
Member
Ha, I'm in PA-12. Look at how far it goes. What a crock of shit
lol
what a mess
That's one tortured looking district right there.
edit: I just realized PA-07 had a big section of central PA bolted onto it in the redistricting. that big extra chunk labeled "07" didn't use to be there. Someone needs to be beaten in the street for this.
I stand corrected, I'm in 14. I know who my representative is (Doyle) but the district is literally right up against the other one in a completely unconventional way and everyone here always gets confused. It is ridiculous.
Manmademan
Member
does anyone have a decent solution for redistricting? I can't imagine any defense for things like this.
The Librarian
Banned
A federal non-partisan redistricting committee or have every state have their own non-partisan redistricting committee.
Manmademan
Member
how do we determine who is and is not "non partisan?" how do we account for bribery and corruption? judges are supposed to be non partisan as well, but the current supreme court shows how much of a fallacy that one is.
The Librarian
Banned
There are several states that have non-partisan redistricting committees. Other countries have them. Do some research!
Revisionist history happening before my eyes. The Irish have been one of the most oppressed and repressed groups in the entire world. Over 700 years of English occupation, millions of Irish slaves sent to the Caribbean, millions more indentured servants(another form of slavery) used in America to build the railroads, farms, being the indentured servants in the north was roughly the same as slaves in the south, there are so many accounts of indentured servants of Irish descent being flat out murdered because the land owner didn't want to give them any land after they were done with their term, and even worse the Irish didn't even get their right to vote in this country until after the US allowed Catholics to vote in all the states. They also banned marriages between the Irish and blacks in America because they had so much in common they were worried that they would join together for an uprising.
Seriously if you need more information of how badly the Irish have even treated in this country just ask. Don't make wild assumptions that are wrong.
Also, what do Americans think of when they hear Irish. Lepurcons and alcoholics.
Manmademan
Member
I'm aware they exist, but I'm asking how do you ensure that the "non partisan committee" is actually non partisan? How do you account for bribery and corruption making its way into the process and ending up with equally tortured and nonsensical districts for different reasons?
I'm not sure districts should be "drawn" by committee at all. There's no good reason why a given city or county should be split into 3 or 4 different districts at all.
edit: the more I think about it, the more I think having all representatives accountable to all voters (as senators are) is a better idea.
The Librarian
Banned
Uh...look up how other states do it? Other countries?
Manmademan
Member
I have. i don't see a single state that addresses the problem. There are nine states that do it by committee, the others either have it done via legislature, or via a hybrid process, as pennsylvania does. (see the above, terrible example).
There really ISNT a way to address corruption or bribery into the process as long as people are still responsible for "drawing districts."
The Librarian
Banned
Uh...California? Canada? Australia? The UK?
Manmademan
Member
California: Commission consists of 5 Republicans, 5 Democrats, and 4 Independents. Government Auditors select 8 members from a pool of 60 voters, then the first 8 commission members selected can make picks on the remaining selections.
How does this prevent bribery and corruption from making its way into the process? Serious question. Don't just say "look at california!"
explain how the process here prevents greed and human error from influencing the districting process.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
In the daily news yesterday there was some guy who literally said he blames the dems because his republican friend told him so.Meanwhile in Fairbanks, Alaska
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Boehner doing his best to calm markets saying theyre aren't votes for a clean debt ceiling. Its a lie though
RustyNails
Member
The guy on the far right gets it. Rest are all batshit.Meanwhile in Fairbanks, Alaska
Link
The Autumn Wind
Did you catch the interview he just did with George Stephanopoulos? Pretty much a complete implosion that came to a head when he blurted out "We're not gonna raise taxes!" He's backed into a corner and he knows it.
Shao Kahn on the Lawn
Member
Meanwhile in Fairbanks, Alaska
Ethnic diversity much?
WIth quotes like that, it's no wonder that the state produced Sarah Palin.
It sounds like they're all on the far right.
(Sorry. I don't get to use that joke very often.)
PhoenixDark
Banned
In short, a default won't happen.
I'll wait for action before believing this is real, because right now it sounds like a threat; and when we don't default, said threat will likely be tabled by most of these people. Many of the far right candidates are being propped up by Koch's groups, not the more diverse Rove groups. Koch will continue to prop the far right up, and if the establishment business wing money moves...where does it go? Will they finance establishment GOP candidates to primary the 30 republicans holding Boehner hostage? Good luck with that in this environment.
R10Neymarfan
Member
They probably are her fan club. Besides the guy on the right
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Right now even if it hurt dems politically I'd support their non negotiations. This is really a constitutional issue and boehner needs to be broken. I dont think linking things to the debt ceiling is bad but this isn't just linking, its extortion. That isn't how this is supposed to work.
They are losing though and they know it. Everyday they have a new plan or deal. Dems have kept up the just vote. I can't believe the discipline we're seeing from them.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Uh Zero my brother...the Irish took a lot of shit for more than a hundred years, especially on the east coast. It's part of the reason they're still democrats to this day. East coast republicans spent decades fucking with them.
Obviously they weren't treated as poorly as blacks, but that goes for every race/minority/etc outside of the Native Americans. The Irish were called white niggers back in the day, or whiteface niggers.
Obviously they weren't treated as poorly as blacks, but that goes for every race/minority/etc outside of the Native Americans. The Irish were called white niggers back in the day, or whiteface niggers.
This is actually one of the easier things Democrats have had to do lately.
They know the country blames the Republicans. They know that Obama is fully supporting them this time. They know that every single move the Republicans take just kills their party more.
All they have to do is sit back and say "Everything or nothing."
Anyone that's seen Back To The Future Part Three should know this!
empty vessel
Member
Actually, they were often considered to be black. Which shows just how little social constructs of race have to do with anything real.
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/06/negative-stereotypes-of-the-irish/
I know it's bad to say, but I hope Boehner isn't bluffing. Let the world crash and be on his shoulders.
He and his party will take the blame.
It'll take a while to recover, but it will be a new age of politics for the US. An age where we can maybe get things done for once.
RustyNails
Member
My nuke bunker is ready.
I'm about 75% sure he's bluffing, given what he's been telling people behind the scenes. But 25% is a big number, and makes me very, very nervous.
Computers. Iowa has computers create the districts mathematically, and the legislature then approves the map, or objects and has the computer redraw. It seems to be working pretty well. They went 52/46 in favor of Obama last year, have 1 R and 1 D senator, and 2 R and 2 D House Reps.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Today is nothing more than Boehner rallying the troops publicly. If he had said "well...we'll cross that bridge when we get there" or "I won't allow a default" then he'd take shit from his caucus.
Notice how anti-Obamacare he was in the interview, despite the fact that this has largely become a non-Obamacare issue over the last few days. He's sending messages to the tea party.
Notice how anti-Obamacare he was in the interview, despite the fact that this has largely become a non-Obamacare issue over the last few days. He's sending messages to the tea party.
If the country defaults everyone will take a hit, and desperate times often invoke even more mind-numbingly stupid accusations from the public than before. I.e. the public could take it out on Obama and harm his party for a generation
I think the people that already think that will think it more. But I think the majority will see it otherwise. Especially since the news has been blasting the GOP lately for the shutdown.
RustyNails
Member
Wow Candy Crowley completely let Ted Cruz run over her. He got every talking point out and then some. No pushback. So pathetic.
She was actually carrying water for Republicans by asking Jack Lew bububu y obama wont sit down and talk???
She was actually carrying water for Republicans by asking Jack Lew bububu y obama wont sit down and talk???
PhoenixDark
Banned
Sounds more like a calculated leak than anything real. The markets will begin to speak loudly if the 10th comes and goes without some type of vote occurring.
That's just it; he's fucked either way. Does he want to take a beating during a default (while the Democrats potentially stand much to lose as well; an example of 'lemmings with suicide vests' scorched earth strategy); or does he want to watch his grip on the caucus completely fade into irrelevancy and go down in history as one of the least productive Speakers of the House?
He's a loser either way. He knows this. That's why he doesn't care. And he is putting his own legacy (what little is left) ahead of the country's economic security, which really shows you that not only is he spineless but completely lacking a moral and ethical world view.
Don't make me link the coin again.
Seriously, if I were Obama, and my goal was to fix structural issues that I felt responsible for, I would absolutely say I would not negotiate on the debt ceiling, and I would absolutely have prepped the 14th amendment speech like a month in advance, and I would absolutely tell everybody that there was no way I would use it. You'd have to be an idiot not to.
Mrs. Manky
Banned
Link
The Autumn Wind
Gotta get back in the GOP's good graces, apparently.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Yea, time for an Obama prime time address me thinks
That is going to be the problem for Dems. The media we have sucks now compared to 1996/1997
That is going to be the problem for Dems. The media we have sucks now compared to 1996/1997
You can link it to your heart's content, but:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/polit...-for-obama-if-debt-ceiling-is-hit-174370.html
Obama will not do it. Which makes me about as nervous as I am from hearing Boehner's latest hostage demands.
Why don't you read my posts? Obviously if you were planning to use the 14th amendment you would lie about it until the last moment, because admitting it just takes the pressure off.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Oh god rand paul is horrible piece of shit. How can you lie like that, it's amazing. He was just meet the press.
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