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[The Technomancer]

if you make us take bieber then we get michael j fox.

anyway, i wonder if there's one out for boehner, pr wise, and that would be to appear as saviors at the last minute. something to the effect of republicans rising above the mess and doing what is right for the country even if democrats won't negotiate.

The American people would see through that, wouldn't they?

Shit

 

[Chichikov]

Well, it doesn't matter. Doubt he would come back. We're not taking Bieber back either.

You see, this is why we must secure the border.

 

[CygnusXS]

if you make us take bieber then we get michael j fox.

It's time for another Celebrity Nationality Draft, obviously.

 

[B-Dubs]

It's time for another Celebrity Nationality Draft, obviously.

We'll keep Beiber and Cruz, but only if we can get Fox and Arcade Fire.

 

[Averon]

if you make us take bieber then we get michael j fox.

anyway, i wonder if there's one out for boehner, pr wise, and that would be to appear as saviors at the last minute. something to the effect of republicans rising above the mess and doing what is right for the country even if democrats won't negotiate.

Doubtful. The tea party has driven the GOP to the point that no concessions from Reid and Obama means a massive loss, a massive waste of political will, and a massive waste of time. This is why Boehner can't put a clean CR on the floor even though he knows it will pass. The tea party have driven the GOP into a do-or-die situation.

 

[CygnusXS]

We'll keep Beiber and Cruz, but only if we can get Fox and Arcade Fire.

OK, but only if you take Celine Dion officially too.

 

[B-Dubs]

OK, but only if you take Celine Dion officially too.

No no no no, 2 for 2. You're keeping her. As it is we're getting shafted in this trade.

Doubtful. The tea party has driven the GOP to the point that no concessions from Reid and Obama means a massive loss, a massive waste of political will, and a massive waste of time. This is why Boehner can't put a clean CR on the floor even though he knows it will pass. The tea party have driven the GOP into a do-or-die situation.

Which is why the fight won't end until the Debt Ceiling can be tied to a clean CR.

 

[Hawkian]

xkcd:

flawless

 

[thepotatoman]

xkcd:

Obviously this is just to serve as further distraction from the Snowden leaks now that Syria can no longer serve that purpose.

 

[CygnusXS]

Obviously this is just to serve as further distraction from the Snowden leaks now that Syria can no longer serve that purpose.

Snowden was just a distraction from Benghazi though.

 

[B-Dubs]

Snowden was just a distraction from Benghazi though.

Which was a distraction from the evils of Obamacare.

 

[Black Mamba]

The Republican Party could be in danger of losing control of the House in 2014, new polls on Sunday show.
In a survey of 24 seats, Republicans fall behind in 17 head-to-head matches against “generic Democrat candidates” among registered voters and lag in an additional four districts when respondents are told the Republican candidate supported the shutdown, according to the surveys by Public Policy Polling which were funded by the liberal group, MoveOn.org


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/2014-elections-poll-gop-house-97890.html#ixzz2h0vkeHgt

Oh my. I'm telling you, if it's one think us Americans hate, it's a sore loser.


Also, I am very fearful of default. I really don't know what the GOP is going to do. And don't you dare bring up Boehner tipping his hand, Pigeon. That ain't good enough for me, anymore.

As for Dax01. I don't want to lose any of you here.

edit: Finally saw Boehner's interview today. He refused outright say with the doomsday clock about to go off that he wouldn't put up a clean DL (though earlier he said no clean DL bill would go up). Even at the end when asked if Obama doesn't negotiate does that mean we'd default and he said "possibly." hm... He definitely didn't go on record to say we wouldn't default so as to not be blamed for going back on his word to his party, I suppose.

Still not confident he'd do it, though. This is a mess.

George called his ass out when he played his older quotes, especially the one about adding Obamacare to the CR guarantees shutdown and he doesn't want that, then they did just that. He had no response and diverted from it which was pretty obvious.

Clearly they needed Boehner out there to help their appearance, and he did a decent job, but I think that moment really hurt him and he didn't expect the 2nd quote.

 

[Black Mamba]

Krugman has an excellent Op-Ed which reflects what I've been saying about the GOP becoming irrational so we don't know how this will play out.

The federal government is shut down, we’re about to hit the debt ceiling (with disastrous economic consequences), and no resolution is in sight. How did this happen?

The main answer, which only the most pathologically “balanced” reporting can deny, is the radicalization of the Republican Party. As Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein put it last year in their book, “It’s Even Worse Than It Looks,” the G.O.P. has become “an insurgent outlier — ideologically extreme; contemptuous of the inherited social and economic policy regime; scornful of compromise; unpersuaded by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition.”

But there’s one more important piece of the story. Conservative leaders are indeed ideologically extreme, but they’re also deeply incompetent. So much so, in fact, that the Dunning-Kruger effect — the truly incompetent can’t even recognize their own incompetence — reigns supreme.

To see what I’m talking about, consider the report in Sunday’s Times about the origins of the current crisis. Early this year, it turns out, some of the usual suspects — the Koch brothers, the political arm of the Heritage Foundation and others — plotted strategy in the wake of Republican electoral defeat. Did they talk about rethinking ideas that voters had soundly rejected? No, they talked extortion, insisting that the threat of a shutdown would induce President Obama to abandon health reform.

This was crazy talk. After all, health reform is Mr. Obama’s signature domestic achievement. You’d have to be completely clueless to believe that he could be bullied into giving up his entire legacy by a defeated, unpopular G.O.P. — as opposed to responding, as he has, by making resistance to blackmail an issue of principle. But the possibility that their strategy might backfire doesn’t seem to have occurred to the would-be extortionists.

Even more remarkable, in its way, was the response of House Republican leaders, who didn’t tell the activists they were being foolish. All they did was urge that the extortion attempt be made over the debt ceiling rather than a government shutdown. And as recently as last week Eric Cantor, the majority leader, was in effect assuring his colleagues that the president will, in fact, give in to blackmail. As far as anyone can tell, Republican leaders are just beginning to suspect that Mr. Obama really means what he has been saying all along.

Many people seem perplexed by the transformation of the G.O.P. into the political equivalent of the Keystone Kops — the Boehner Bunglers? Republican elders, many of whom have been in denial about their party’s radicalization, seem especially startled. But all of this was predictable.

It has been obvious for years that the modern Republican Party is no longer capable of thinking seriously about policy. Whether the issue is climate change or inflation, party members believe what they want to believe, and any contrary evidence is dismissed as a hoax, the product of vast liberal conspiracies.

For a while the party was able to compartmentalize, to remain savvy and realistic about politics even as it rejected objectivity everywhere else. But this wasn’t sustainable. Sooner or later, the party’s attitude toward policy — we listen only to people who tell us what we want to hear, and attack the bearers of uncomfortable news — was bound to infect political strategy, too.

Remember what happened in the 2012 election — not the fact that Mitt Romney lost, but the fact that all the political experts around him apparently had no inkling that he was likely to lose. Polls overwhelmingly pointed to an Obama victory, but Republican analysts denounced the polls as “skewed” and attacked the media outlets reporting those polls for their alleged liberal bias. These days Karl Rove is pleading with House Republicans to be reasonable and accept the results of the 2012 election. But on election night he tried to bully Fox News into retracting its correct call of Ohio — and hence, in effect, the election — for Mr. Obama.

Unfortunately for all of us, even the shock of electoral defeat wasn't enough to burst the G.O.P. bubble; it’s still a party dominated by wishful thinking, and all but impervious to inconvenient facts. And now that party’s leaders have bungled themselves into a corner.

Everybody not inside the bubble realizes that Mr. Obama can’t and won’t negotiate under the threat that the House will blow up the economy if he doesn't — any concession at all would legitimize extortion as a routine part of politics. Yet Republican leaders are just beginning to get a clue, and so far clearly have no idea how to back down. Meanwhile, the government is shut, and a debt crisis looms. Incompetence can be a terrible thing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/opinion/krugman-the-boehner-bunglers.html

 

[pigeon]

Oh my. I'm telling you, if it's one think us Americans hate, it's a sore loser.


Also, I am very fearful of default. I really don't know what the GOP is going to do. And don't you dare bring up Boehner tipping his hand, Pigeon. That ain't good enough for me, anymore.

I don't know why you keep pointing to me! I switched over to the coin way back when they went to committee. I am absolutely worried that Boehner will fail to raise the debt ceiling out of political incompetence, and I wish I were more confident that Obama recognized the necessity of having an escape hatch. Phoenix is the one who's convinced golf will save America.

 

[B-Dubs]

Krugman has an excellent Op-Ed which reflects what I've been saying about the GOP becoming irrational so we don't know how this will play out.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/opinion/krugman-the-boehner-bunglers.html

I've been slowly coming around to this idea. It's frightening as hell.

 

[Black Mamba]

I don't know why you keep pointing to me! I switched over to the coin way back when they went to committee. I am absolutely worried that Boehner will fail to raise the debt ceiling out of political incompetence, and I wish I were more confident that Obama recognized the necessity of having an escape hatch. Phoenix is the one who's convinced golf will save America.

Oh god, how did things switch like this where PD is convinced that Boehner will cave!


In other news: Why The Onion Can't Keep Up With Reality:

Fox News host Anna Kooiman fell for a fake story that said President Obama is using his own money to keep a museum dedicated to Muslim culture open during the government shutdown.

The government has been shut down since Tuesday. The co-hosts of "Fox and Friends Saturday" lamented the closure of the World War II Memorial, which Kooiman claimed "doesn't seem fair especially" because "President Obama has offered to pay out of his own pocket for the museum of Muslim culture."

The fake report came from National Report, a parody news site. The story said that Obama told reporters earlier this week that the shutdown was "a great time to learn about the faith of Islam."

I've been slowly coming around to this idea. It's frightening as hell.

I used to think the leaders were rational enough but krugs makes a good point about Mitt Romney's team being oblivious to the polling and really, that's a scary thing to think about in retrospect. It's not just that they live in a bubble, it's that even when the bubble should have bursted, they can't notice it anymore.

That makes them very dangerous, not out of sheer might but out of pure irrationality. They've essentially became the gun in a russian roulette game.

 

[rocketknight]

P. Krug has been on point with this stuff the last year or so. It's really livened him up.

 

[Videoneon]

re: Project X Zone -- it was a joke =P

An opinion piece I came across today:

Bloomberg's William Pesek: Congress Plays with fire as Asia examines debt

The biggest economy has long taken its reserve-currency status for granted, but the events of recent days raise Washington’s hubris to entirely new levels. Chinese President Xi Jinping didn’t mention Ted Cruz, John Boehner or the Tea Party this week when he urged major developed economies to adopt responsible policies that avoid negative spillover. He didn’t have to. Their shutdown of the U.S. government and the specter of U.S. default were written between the lines in bold type.

American politicians should be particularly worried about a conversation Xi had this week in Jakarta with Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono. Xi proposed creating a regional bank to invest in infrastructure in Southeast Asia and pledged funding from China. Asia is also gradually building a neighborhood International Monetary Fund. Where will all this cash come from? Asia’s $7 trillion in currency reserves, much of it currently in dollars.

What disturbs officials here the most is that this battle is over providing health care to Americans. How, they ask, could half your government take a stand against what other developed nations view as a basic human right?

While Congress takes Asia’s continued support for granted partly out of smugness, it also reflects the Hobson’s choice confronting reserve managers, meaning they have no real choice. China holds $10 of U.S. Treasuries for each of its 1.3 billion people. If traders sensed that China was selling large blocks of them, markets would plunge, resulting in huge state losses and less growth as surging bond yields slammed American consumers. And really, what other assets could the Chinese readily buy in such incredibly large amounts at moment? So, to avoid the biggest foreign-exchange trade in history, central banks stay in dollars.

This pyramid-scheme-like arrangement explains why U.S. government bonds are rallying.

Xi’s timing in proposing a regional bank can’t be a coincidence. Beijing is also involved in efforts to build another institution that might challenge the IMF and World Bank among the BRICS nations of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. Filling its vaults will come at the dollar’s expense.

Tea Party supporters should consider that they are helping enhance China’s soft power around the world. Although China’s currency reserve managers may lose some sleep this month, its leaders will gain in global stature as they come across as serious and moderate in the face of the Washington frat-house spectacle. It’s amazing to watch my U.S. tax dollars hard at work making Communists look like capitalist heroes.

Some notes:

--We're still the global reserve currency? I thought moves were being made against that, with regional currencies or something.

--No Communist countries actually exist right? Certainly none that this guy is covering. I remember the phrase "State capitalism" being thrown around to describe them, and wasn't it the case that China's growth is partially due to economic liberalization (besides nationalization of banks)? And I understand he's making a joke, but just wondering about the "proper" term for China's economic strategies.

--What about the bubble fears in China? Though IIRC China isn't interested in expanding its power in the same militaristic way the US has. It's just strange to keep reading "China's growth is screeching to a halt" and "China has a lot of leverage and is doing stuff to lead ASEAN/four tigers/BRICS/Japan etc beware the new communist threat."

--I do like this guy's column remarking on the idea that there's basically nothing good that this shutdown does for the US: certainly not domestically, but that domestic weakening has international effects. I believe this guy is generally pro globalization/economic liberalism based on comments I remember reading from him. He hates Abenomics.
-------

Regarding Dax: I remember that she was going through some tough times recently. That being said, she also kept getting touchy too quickly and too often, with readily available examples in this thread.

A perm though...that would be very unfortunate.

 

[Mario]

I used to think the leaders were rational enough but krugs makes a good point about Mitt Romney's team being oblivious to the polling and really, that's a scary thing to think about in retrospect. It's not just that they live in a bubble, it's that even when the bubble should have bursted, they can't notice it anymore.

The day after the 2012 election, there was a glimmer of hope that they would become self aware, where a few Republicans dared to contemplate for the briefest of moments "what if we are going about this the wrong way?". And then, a day again later, they fell back even deeper into the bubble of their own making.

It seemed like the inevitable outcome of that was that eventually they would implode, splitting the party, potentially losing political power and relevance for decades.

At the time though, I'm not sure anyone predicted they would be crazy enough to take the whole world down with them. Who could possibly imagine they were that deluded?

 

[East Lake]

I remember Hannity talking about flipping on immigration after the election. Good times.

 

[rocketknight]

Regarding Dax: I remember that she was going through some tough times recently. That being said, she also kept getting touchy too quickly and too often, with readily available examples in this thread.

A perm though...that would be very unfortunate.

Hopefully it's not a perm, PoliGAF is gonna be worse off in general without her and Oblivion. (At least for me, I found them to be really sharp and well-read. They allowed me to be lazier. Not trying to speak for everyone.)

 

[B-Dubs]

The day after the 2012 election, there was a glimmer of hope that they would become self aware, where a few Republicans dared to contemplate for the briefest of moments "what if we are going about this the wrong way?". And then, a day again later, they fell back even deeper into the bubble of their own making.

It seemed like the inevitable outcome of that was that eventually they would implode, splitting the party, potentially losing political power and relevance for decades.

At the time though, I'm not sure anyone predicted they would be crazy enough to take the whole world down with them. Who could possibly imagine they were that deluded?

That's the thing, everyone (including myself) assumed that they were rational players in all of this despite the internal party shit. Shutting down the government for political reasons and thinking a default is a good thing are not things a rational actor would do. Frankly is Boehner doesn't come to his senses and soon, we are all uber-boned beyond belief.

 

[rocketknight]

That's the thing, everyone (including myself) assumed that they were rational players in all of this despite the internal party shit. Shutting down the government for political reasons and thinking a default is a good thing are not things a rational actor would do. Frankly is Boehner doesn't come to his senses and soon, we are all uber-boned beyond belief.

You meant uber-Boehned. If you don't pick the low-hanging fruit, what fruit are you gonna pick?

 

[Black Mamba]

Wait, Oblivion is banned too? WTF. I didn't even realize, though he just went on vacation or something.

That's the thing, everyone (including myself) assumed that they were rational players in all of this despite the internal party shit. Shutting down the government for political reasons and thinking a default is a good thing are not things a rational actor would do. Frankly is Boehner doesn't come to his senses and soon, we are all uber-boned beyond belief.

If the debt limit is not raised before the Treasury depletes its cash balance, it could force the Treasury to rapidly eliminate the budget deficit to stay under the debt ceiling," wrote Phillips and Dawsey in a note distributed to clients on Saturday night. "We estimate that the fiscal pullback would amount to as much as 4.2% of GDP (annualized). The effect on quarterly growth rates (rather than levels) could be even greater. If this were allowed to occur, it could lead to a rapid downturn in economic activity if not reversed very quickly."*

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/gold...-raise-the-debt-ceiling-2013-10#ixzz2h1LQigcq

I bet it could be a lot worse, too.

edit: There's real potential this could be worse than 2008. A lot worse.

 

[TheHeretic]

That's the thing, everyone (including myself) assumed that they were rational players in all of this despite the internal party shit. Shutting down the government for political reasons and thinking a default is a good thing are not things a rational actor would do. Frankly is Boehner doesn't come to his senses and soon, we are all uber-boned beyond belief.

Nobody knows what Boehner knows though. He may not have the votes, or the votes might be close enough that bringing the CR the floor right now might scare some of the flimsier votes off.

 

[JesseEwiak]

That's the thing, everyone (including myself) assumed that they were rational players in all of this despite the internal party shit. Shutting down the government for political reasons and thinking a default is a good thing are not things a rational actor would do. Frankly is Boehner doesn't come to his senses and soon, we are all uber-boned beyond belief.

Here's the thing. Morally, I actually don't have any issues with a shutdown. It'd dumb, silly, politically idiotic, and bad policy, but I feel that as the House, they have the right to do it.

It's the fact this is all leading to the debt ceiling debate is what is non-rational.

 

[zero shift]

--No Communist countries actually exist right? Certainly none that this guy is covering. I remember the phrase "State capitalism" being thrown around to describe them, and wasn't it the case that China's growth is partially due to economic liberalization (besides nationalization of banks)? And I understand he's making a joke, but just wondering about the "proper" term for China's economic strategies.

People may make China out to be much more Capitalist than it actually is. Half of their employees work for government owned companies and virtually all of the top 100 or so biggest companies in the country are fully government owned.

China practices the best parts of Communism (making sure little of the money created gets lost to vulture superpowers) and Capitalism (creating a strong healthy marketplace).

This is why State Capitalism best describes the country.

What about the bubble fears in China? Though IIRC China isn't interested in expanding its power in the same militaristic way the US has. It's just strange to keep reading "China's growth is screeching to a halt" and "China has a lot of leverage and is doing stuff to lead ASEAN/four tigers/BRICS/Japan etc beware the new communist threat."

The fall of China talk is amusing. We've been hearing this talk for thirty years yet the only economies to collapse during that time were the Western ones. You can point to a ghost city and I'll point to houses being sold to people can't afford them and junk credit ratings being sold for a high price.

 

[Mario]

Here's the thing. Morally, I actually don't have any issues with a shutdown. It'd dumb, silly, politically idiotic, and bad policy, but I feel that as the House, they have the right to do it.

How can you not object to it on moral grounds if by your own words you consider it "dumb, silly, politically idiotic, and bad policy"? Not to mention, I'm sure you'd agree, that it is causing hardship for hundreds of thousands of government workers and inconvenience for innumerable citizens?

Just because the House might have the right to do something doesn't mean it isn't morally objectionable.

 

[Akainu]

I'm still catching up what was Dax banned for?

 

[East Lake]

You can point to a ghost city and I'll point to houses being sold to people can't afford them and junk credit ratings being sold for a high price.

Can you expand on this a bit?

 

[wsoxfan1214]

Was asked to write about Obamacare from a Democrat's perspective. So damn hard to just write about the ACA without mentioning the shutdown...

 

[zero shift]

Can you expand on this a bit?

Sure.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

That's the thing, everyone (including myself) assumed that they were rational players in all of this despite the internal party shit. Shutting down the government for political reasons and thinking a default is a good thing are not things a rational actor would do. Frankly is Boehner doesn't come to his senses and soon, we are all uber-boned beyond belief.

I think the highlighted 'they' above may be too broad to be meaningful. The fact that Republicans are not behaving pro-socially is not, I think, the same as their being irrational.

 

[bonercop]

Here's another interesting article about the tea-pary, this time from Salon. It challenges the notion that the Tea Party is simply being fueled by just dumbshit identity politics and stupidity -- those are the driving motivation for the followers, sure, but the interests that are being pursued by the Tea Party's financiers are fully rational according to the article.

Check it out.

I fucking hated that scene, it reeked of "both sides are just as bad" bullshit.
You can show killing citizens, you can make a game about the consequences of a violent revolution, fuck, you can even construct a narrative about a struggle where both sides are equally bad.
But the game did none of that, there were obviously good guys and bad guys, but then they lost their balls to completely follow through on their class conflict message so they had the leader of the revolution murder two little kids with a knife in a close-up.

in the end, ken levine is still a wealthy dude. class traitor, he is not!

 

[Diablos]

Isn't minting the coin a horrible idea? Would it not cause hyperinflation?

I think the Constitutional option is best, and despite a former President and Speaker of the House among others thinking it is valid, Obama's people don't. This baffles me, also angers me a bit.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Isn't minting the coin a horrible idea? Would it not cause hyperinflation?

I think the Constitutional option is best, and despite a former President and Speaker of the House among others thinking it is valid, Obama's people don't. This baffles me, also angers me a bit.

I think Pidgeon is right: if you had a last minute card in your deck, you wouldn't reveal your hand. Obama wants the onus of the debt ceiling entirely in the hands of congress. If they believe Obama can simply wave his hand and successfully fix the situation, they might not take default seriously.

Now some will argue they already don't take default seriously, and that is true of tea party extremists. But Boehner and leadership recognize the danger of this situation, and ultimately will defuse it - because they have no choice but to prevent a global shutdown. Obama publicly ruling out the 14th amendment ensures that remains the case.

 

[Diablos]

I think Pidgeon is right: if you had a last minute card in your deck, you wouldn't reveal your hand. Obama wants the onus of the debt ceiling entirely in the hands of congress. If they believe Obama can simply wave his hand and successfully fix the situation, they might not take default seriously.

Now some will argue they already don't take default seriously, and that is true of tea party extremists. But Boehner and leadership recognize the danger of this situation, and ultimately will defuse it - because they have no choice but to prevent a global shutdown. Obama publicly ruling out the 14th amendment ensures that remains the case.

He didn't just rule it out publicly, he and Lew made a very specific statement indicating they flat out DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY to use the 14th. That's what worries me. Had he not gone that far in stating that, I'd be more on the side of you and pigeon.

There's a gap between "we don't believe we can use it" and "we don't have the authority to use it." Had they been secretly planning to use it, I don't think they would have gone as far as stating the latter, and I don't think prominent Democratic figureheads and leaders would be denouncing Obama's idea that it isn't an option.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I think Pidgeon is right: if you had a last minute card in your deck, you wouldn't reveal your hand. Obama wants the onus of the debt ceiling entirely in the hands of congress. If they believe Obama can simply wave his hand and successfully fix the situation, they might not take default seriously.

Now some will argue they already don't take default seriously, and that is true of tea party extremists. But Boehner and leadership recognize the danger of this situation, and ultimately will defuse it - because they have no choice but to prevent a global shutdown. Obama publicly ruling out the 14th amendment ensures that remains the case.

I think either the 14th or coin would be treated as a default. There are to many questions about the legality. Who is going to buy debt when it might not be valid? I don't think Obama is playing a game, he doesn't see any other option besides Congress raising it. Nothing shows that he has entertained anything but a statutory way forward everything else is just the blogosphere running around with their own ideas and thinking anybody outside it cares or is taking them seriously ignoring the fact the president keeps saying it's not something he will do.

 

[PhoenixDark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFfjDe9djw
wut

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFfjDe9djw
wut

So conflicted. On one hand, I don't wanna see Liz Cheney win a seat the way she's going about it... on the other hand, dat ad.

 

[ridethepiggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFfjDe9djw
wut

She has a nice palm.

 

[Jooney]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFfjDe9djw
wut

The GOP is a big tent party that accepts anyone that passes the litmus test.

 

[AlteredBeast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFfjDe9djw
wut

Wow... so much demonization. It is all so ridiculous. It is sad that so many people can be scared by the boogeyman like this.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFfjDe9djw
wut

Amazing ad lol

It's Wyoming, shit's gonna fly there!

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 6m
The longer this lasts, the more likely leaders agree to avert default by kicking can down road and promising tax reform/budget talks

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 8m
Per WSJ, Portman is seizing on something we reported last week--a clean CR/debt limit + "mechanism" for tax reform http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304171804579119281100434324.html

Welp.

WTF would this "mechanism" be?

Kick it down the road until, say, September of October of 2014, GOP. Let's see how well that helps you keep the House. I DARE YOU.

 

[Tamanon]

Welp.

WTF would this "mechanism" be?

Kick it down the road until, say, September of October of 2014, GOP. Let's see how well that helps you keep the House. I DARE YOU.

"Mechanism" means committee. They might try to throw something binding like sequestration into the mix, but that wouldn't pass.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Senate has been trying to get house to agree to a conference for 18 months, that would be a start for budget negotiations.

 

[pigeon]

"Mechanism" means committee. They might try to throw something binding like sequestration into the mix, but that wouldn't pass.

Yeah, mechanism means "some unspecified kind of force." I suspect we wouldn't try sequestration again, though, so the force is likely to be something relatively meaningless like docking Congressional salaries again if they don't cut a budget deal. (Yes, this is unconstitutional, but they can probably find a way around that.)

 

[teiresias]

Welp.

WTF would this "mechanism" be?

Kick it down the road until, say, September of October of 2014, GOP. Let's see how well that helps you keep the House. I DARE YOU.

Like I've said earlier when this same thing was floated earlier, this sounds like just an out for Boehner to have SOMETHING to sell to the loonies. After all, there will be no "mechanism" besides talks on the matter - there's not going to be any legislation coming out at this point - and Reid and Obama may as well just say that will be an open topic of discussion during any conference.

If this is how it's resolved it will ultimately come down to both sides agreeing to a committee. Dems have wanted one for months, but the lunatic-right pulled out that stunt about wanting a committee around midnight before the shutdown started, so I think that sort of lets Boehner hang that as something he gained from this ordeal even though it's really not.

Now, if Boehner has some wacky tax reform mechanism that is actual substantive changes, that's not going to go anywhere in this short amount of time, but Costa is right that it would just be an agreement to talk about it.

Of course, if Boehner says he won "talks on tax reform" the Tea Party loons will hear that as "Obama has agreed to lowering taxes and cutting spending" and when that obviously turns out to not be the case they'll go batshit crazy again.

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 5m
Coburn: "I would dispel the rumor... that if we don't raise the debt ceiling we will default" http://natl.re/17fYj1r

Coburn is an idiot, news at 11

Like I've said earlier when this same thing was floated earlier, this sounds like just an out for Boehner to have SOMETHING to sell to the loonies. After all, there will be no "mechanism" besides talks on the matter - there's not going to be any legislation coming out at this point - and Reid and Obama may as well just say that will be an open topic of discussion during any conference.

If this is how it's resolved it will ultimately come down to both sides agreeing to a committee. Dems have wanted one for months, but the lunatic-right pulled out that stunt about wanting a committee around midnight before the shutdown started, so I think that sort of lets Boehner hang that as something he gained from this ordeal even though it's really not.

Now, if Boehner has some wacky tax reform mechanism that is actual substantive changes, that's not going to go anywhere in this short amount of time, but Costa is right that it would just be an agreement to talk about it.

Of course, if Boehner says he won "talks on tax reform" the Tea Party loons will hear that as "Obama has agreed to lowering taxes and cutting spending" and when that obviously turns out to not be the case they'll go batshit crazy again.

What are they going to make him do? Negate his Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 legislation?