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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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M

metalslimer

Member
Social conservative generally get banned because of the bigotry that generally comes with it. There are sometimes some decent fiscal conservatives I see, but most who claim to be fiscal conservatives support awful republican parties. And then there are the republicans who are ashamed to associate with them and now call themselves libertarians. I really do wish fiscal conservatives would just admit they don't care about other people and stop trying to pass some of their ideas off as good for the majority of people. But honestly, it's extremely difficult to take anyone who identifies with the current republican party seriously.
 
C

codhand

Member
606shortpoll.jpg
 
A

Aylinato

Member
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I don't hate Detroit, in fact I've long defended it from braindead attacks. Snyder tricked me, I'll admit it. I thought he would be a good governor...

Nor am I a republican, I just don't like Obama. I'm a liberal.
 
E

East Lake

Member
zero shift said:
Sure.
Click to expand...
I'll have to look more about pricing vs worker wages and population. Not that it constitutes a fall of china by any means but that article doesn't seem too confidence inspiring. Cash buyers and city banks would still be too heavily exposed in the event of a slowdown in that market wouldn't they? It's good that they aren't masked with financial tricks that they know of but there seems to still be speculators that would lose big if that market slowed.

This would seem like a big problem as well.

Fifty-four percent of U.S. manufacturers with sales topping $1 billion are planning to or considering bringing back factory-lines from China, up from 37 percent in February, the Boston Consulting Group said Sept. 24, citing a survey of 200 executives. It projects that with Chinese wages and benefits rising 15 percent to 20 percent a year, the cost of operating in China will be the same as staying in the U.S. by 2015.

Trellis Earth Products Inc. (TREL), a Portland, Oregon-based producer of bioplastics, said in July it is moving its manufacturing operations to New York state from China, investing $8.3 million and creating almost 200 positions.
Click to expand...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ves-behind-world-consumer-of-last-resort.html
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
"Whether it's today, or a number of weeks from now, or a number of months from now, or a number of years from now, it will always be Congress's responsibility to raise our debt ceiling so that the United States can pay the bills that Congress has incurred," he (Jay Carney) told reporters during his daily briefing.

"It will always be, as long as he's president, President Obama's position that that responsibility is not negotiable. That there's not a game of trading for political priorities or agenda items that Republicans have not been able to achieve through legislation or the ballot box."
Click to expand...

nice.
 
V

Videoneon

Member
Cyan said:
GAF as a whole is somewhat left-leaning. PoliGAF is more so, as even the more reasonable conservatives will tend to stop bothering after getting piled on.
Click to expand...

If people are looking for those who tend to make more in depth posts, see Metaphoreus or CyclopsRock. The latter isn't USGAF though, and I'm sure there are more but I can't think of any more off the top of my head. There was a poster named TheHeretic who identified conservative and voted Obama.

Doesn't Samarecarm identify as Republican? Perhaps he/she just seems to find him/herself at odds with libertarianism?
 
D

Diablos

Member
MORGAN STANLEY ECONOMIST: If We Breach The Debt Ceiling, Jack Lew Must Decide Which

JOE WEISENTHAL OCT. 7, 2013, 4:25 AM 30,972 34

What happens if we breach the debt ceiling?

According to Morgan Stanley top economist Vincent Reinhart, the question becomes straightforward: Which law must the Secretary of the Treasury break?

In a column for DealBook, which is adapted from one of his notes to clients, he explains the choice facing Treasury Secretary Jack Lew:

If the Treasury is unwilling to stretch the definition of extraordinary measures, on the day that the Federal Reserve predicts that the Treasury will run out of cash in its account and the Treasury is bound by the debt ceiling, it suspends all payments and awaits instructions from the Treasury. As a result, the government’s principal economic officials will face the prospect of violating one of these three laws:

1. The Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917 that establishes the debt ceiling;

2. The Federal Reserve Act that prohibits the Fed from lending directly to the Treasury; or,

3. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution that holds that the debt of the United States government, lawfully issued, will not be questioned.

They have to break a law. At the end of the day, officials will avoid violating the Constitution by indicating that they have been given inconsistent instructions and are obeying the one with the most important precedent.

Basically in Reinhart's formulation, Lew will opt to break the debt ceiling law, citing constitutional obligations to continue servicing the debt.

And then of course we enter into level never-neverland with respect to the budget.
Click to expand...
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/morg...cide-which-law-to-break-2013-10#ixzz2h4Oyy4vZ

Heh...
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
Videoneon said:
CyclopsRock. The latter isn't USGAF though
Click to expand...

Which really kind of colors his political outlook. In that he dislikes NHS not because it's universal healthcare (he thinks universal care is good) but because it's not private enough in execution. Which is quite a bit left of the conservatives in the US single axis spectrum.
 
Z

zargle

Member
Notrollious said:
So since Constitution > All then it shouldn't be a big issue.

Use the 14th to break the debt ceiling for good? That'd be coo.

*cue dictator cries from the right over this*
Click to expand...

But if they break the debt ceiling, then we won't default and then how will Obama cancel future elections?!?!
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Box said:
Were they wrong because they were conservative or were they wrong because they weren't thoughtful or agreeable?
Click to expand...

We could definitely be friendlier to conservatives in this thread (and probably in general).

That said, there have definitely been staunchly liberal posters who were driven out of PoliGAF with strident requests to document their positions with data, refrain from (unnecessary) name-calling, and respond to critiques, as well.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
zero shift said:
For the Socialists in this thread. Do you think Socialism (workers co-ops, syndicalism, etc.) has a place in the future of lack of employment that results in giving people guaranteed standard income?
Click to expand...

Sure, why not? Marx predicted the crisis of affluence in his manifesto, after all. If we have plenty for everybody, that should really just make socialism more effective and likely.

A guaranteed standard income is a pretty strong socialist policy. It might also be a strong libertarian policy, I guess, but hey, if we have common ground, we may as well build on it.
 
R

Riki

Member
H

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
Intimidation? Extortion? Whatever do you mean?

John Boehner's press secretary, Michael Steel, just sent out a link to this Bloomberg article predicting catastrophic fallout from a US debt default with this message attached: "Folks - This really, really sounds like something Washington Democrats ought to talk to somebody about avoiding. Maybe that's just me. - steel"
Click to expand...
"Hey, if you want your precious little economy to see the light of day ever again, you'll do what we tell yous. No disrespect."
 
S

StopMakingSense

Member
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
Intimidation? Extortion? Whatever do you mean?

John Boehner's press secretary, Michael Steel, just sent out a link to this Bloomberg article predicting catastrophic fallout from a US debt default with this message attached: "Folks - This really, really sounds like something Washington Democrats ought to talk to somebody about avoiding. Maybe that's just me. - steel"
Click to expand...

"You got a reeeeal nice country here. Would be a real shame for something to happen to it"

edt: heh
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Fiscal cliff "Plan B" redux:

Speaker John Boehner may be trying to finalize a debt-limit plan, but House conservatives are already skeptical of his efforts. In interviews, several of them tell me they’re unlikely to support any deal that may emerge.

“They may try to throw the kitchen sink at the debt limit, but I don’t think our conference will be amenable for settling for a collection of things after we’ve fought so hard,” says Representative Scott Garrett (R., N.J.). “If it doesn’t have a full delay or defund of Obamacare, I know I and many others will not be able to support whatever the leadership proposes. If it’s just a repeal of the medical-device tax, or chained CPI, that won’t be enough.”

Representative Paul Broun (R., Ga.) agrees, and says Boehner risks an internal rebellion if he decides to broker a compromise. “America is going to be destroyed by Obamacare, so whatever deal is put together must at least reschedule the implementation of Obamacare,” he says. “This law is going to destroy America and everything in America, and we need to stop it.”

“Stay the course, don’t give in on it, that’s what the people in my district are saying,” says Representative Ted Yoho (R., Fla.). “We did a town hall the other day, and 74 percent of people said, ‘don’t raise the debt ceiling.’”

“I think you’d see at least 50 to 60 Republicans break with Boehner if he went for something small,” predicts a House GOP aide who works closely with conservative members. “They’re also reluctant to even give Boehner a short-term debt limit extension unless he gets something big in return. But that’s the one area where Boehner may have room to maneuver. He could tell them, ‘I’m with you fighting, but let’s just extend the fight a few weeks.’”

“Look, I would have to see it, but we’re at a place where we’re stronger than I thought we’d be, so I hope we stand strong,” adds Representative Steve King (R., Iowa), when I mention Boehner’s push for a bargain. “We’ve passed the witching hour, so the dynamics have changed, and we shouldn’t turn around. I think Boehner’s in a good position, and it’s important we keep up that unity.”

Meanwhile, House GOP centrists are increasingly nervous that the right flank may end up overly influencing Boehner’s next move. “A big deal would be great, but we’ll have to wait and see,” says Representative Jim Gerlach (R., Pa.). “We’re trying to talk to [the conservative wing] about the impact shutdown has in suburban, moderate, and competitive districts like mine, and I hope they listen. But Ted Cruz sold them this line, and they’ve run with it.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/360598/conservatives-wary-deal-robert-costa

If House republicans reject it, which is possible assuming the bill fails to get democrat votes and fails to get 30-40 tea party votes...it's game over. This happened back in December/January with the fiscal cliff, when the House rejected Boehner's deal.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Speaker John Boehner may be trying to finalize a debt-limit plan, but House conservatives are already skeptical of his efforts. In interviews, several of them tell me they’re unlikely to support any deal that may emerge.

“They may try to throw the kitchen sink at the debt limit, but I don’t think our conference will be amenable for settling for a collection of things after we’ve fought so hard,” says Representative Scott Garrett (R., N.J.). “If it doesn’t have a full delay or defund of Obamacare, I know I and many others will not be able to support whatever the leadership proposes. If it’s just a repeal of the medical-device tax, or chained CPI, that won’t be enough.”

Representative Paul Broun (R., Ga.) agrees, and says Boehner risks an internal rebellion if he decides to broker a compromise. “America is going to be destroyed by Obamacare, so whatever deal is put together must at least reschedule the implementation of Obamacare,” he says. “This law is going to destroy America and everything in America, and we need to stop it.”

“Stay the course, don’t give in on it, that’s what the people in my district are saying,” says Representative Ted Yoho (R., Fla.). “We did a town hall the other day, and 74 percent of people said, ‘don’t raise the debt ceiling.’”

“I think you’d see at least 50 to 60 Republicans break with Boehner if he went for something small,” predicts a House GOP aide who works closely with conservative members. “They’re also reluctant to even give Boehner a short-term debt limit extension unless he gets something big in return. But that’s the one area where Boehner may have room to maneuver. He could tell them, ‘I’m with you fighting, but let’s just extend the fight a few weeks.’”

“Look, I would have to see it, but we’re at a place where we’re stronger than I thought we’d be, so I hope we stand strong,” adds Representative Steve King (R., Iowa), when I mention Boehner’s push for a bargain. “We’ve passed the witching hour, so the dynamics have changed, and we shouldn’t turn around. I think Boehner’s in a good position, and it’s important we keep up that unity.”

Meanwhile, House GOP centrists are increasingly nervous that the right flank may end up overly influencing Boehner’s next move. “A big deal would be great, but we’ll have to wait and see,” says Representative Jim Gerlach (R., Pa.). “We’re trying to talk to [the conservative wing] about the impact shutdown has in suburban, moderate, and competitive districts like mine, and I hope they listen. But Ted Cruz sold them this line, and they’ve run with it.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/360598/conservatives-wary-deal-robert-costa

Welp, it was nice having a 1st world country while it lasted. See y'all on the other side.

edit: BEATEN!
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
So in a new WaPo/ABC News poll, disapproval of congressional Republicans for their handling of the budget negotiations has risen to a whopping 70 percent.

606shortpoll.jpg


I wonder what the unskewed numbers are.

Funny thing is that even with this poll, the House Republicans responsible for this shutdown are more afraid of primary challengers than anything.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
“They may try to throw the kitchen sink at the debt limit, but I don’t think our conference will be amenable for settling for a collection of things after we’ve fought so hard,” says Representative Scott Garrett (R., N.J.). “If it doesn’t have a full delay or defund of Obamacare, I know I and many others will not be able to support whatever the leadership proposes. If it’s just a repeal of the medical-device tax, or chained CPI, that won’t be enough.”
Click to expand...

Memo to Boehner: These guys will not support you unless you do something impossible. That means, screw 'em, let 'em twist in the wind.
 
B

besada

Banned
I'm ready to tape down the throttle and stare longingly at the wall as we crash into it. I know, it's not very responsible, but I am ready.

No concessions, no discussions, until the clean CR AND the Debt Limit are passed.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Look, at this point, Boehner just has to choose. Does he want to go down in history as one of the most ineffectual speakers ever, or as the man who single-handedly destroyed the world's greatest economy. I mean, the dude sucks at his job, but he's not a total nutjob. Sooner or later, he'll do the right thing.
 
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