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[Aaron Strife]

8 House Dems arrested for Civil Disobedience at an immigration rally. 5 arrested outside the Sudanese embassy.

I like the image of House Dems willing to work within the system for what they believe in as opposed to just shutting it down.

JEEZ DON'T THEY HAVE OTHER THINGS THEY SHOULD BE DOING

LIKE NOT SHUTTING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT

GOSH

Spoiler

/fucking dumbass

 

[Jooney]

What would uncompromising photos be? Just normal ones?

Damn. Didn't pick that up. It's meant o be 'compromising'. You got me.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I still don't see where Boehner has an out.

you need some imagination

 

[Riki]

Damn. Didn't pick that up. It's meant o be 'compromising'. You got me.

It's ok. Thought maybe it was something else.

Spoiler

Fun with prefixes.

 

[Piecake]

The only negotiation I could possibly accept is one that gets rid of the debt ceiling forever and a provision if you cannot pass a CR the previous one is automatically instated.

To get that, throw them the medical device tax.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...s-lawmakers-reusing-their-towels-at-house-gym

House lawmakers are picking up their own towels at their private gym, which has remained open during the government shutdown. [WATCH VIDEO]

The gym was to have been closed, but the Architect of the Capitol decided to keep the facility open because several House members store personal items inside.

No one is there to check members into the facility in the basement of the Rayburn House Office Building, which is open exclusively to current and former House members.
Members don’t only have to pick up their towels — they have to reuse them for their showers, because there is no more laundering service.

Lawmakers, including some who live in their offices during visits to Washington and use the gym’s showers to clean up, say they need the gym to stay open.

“This job is very stressful and if you don't have a place to vent, you are going to go crazy and that's why I've used it all these years,” said Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska), who has used the facility since 1973.

At the gym, two gray metal doors are locked. There is a phone and a key card reader to the side that reads: “Members may gain access using this telephone. Just pick up for assistance.”

Members on Tuesday argued the gym isn’t some fancy club, even if it is hard to be a member.

It costs members a $250 annual fee and is similar to a YMCA, said Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.). It contains cardio machines, a weight area, a swimming pool and a basketball court.

“The gym is just a room, there are machines but there are no trainers,” Duncan added.

Democratic Rep. Jim Moran (Va.) noted that he ran on Tuesday morning and had to clean up after himself following his workout.

“You have to save your towel, you have to reuse it because we let the staff go — I know the showers are still working, and it doesn't take any maintenance to maintain the weights,” Moran told The Hill.

Senators across the dome face a similar situation.

Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Miss.) said the Senate gym is “open just like the hallways are open,” but the four staff members who usually help run the facility were no longer present.

On Monday, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said that the Senate’s gym was becoming “rank.”

'essential'

 

[jamesinclair]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...s-lawmakers-reusing-their-towels-at-house-gym


'essential'

Im shocked theyre paying $250 a year for that.

When I worked in DC, my company gym charged $2 a paycheck (ie, $1 a week)

 

[Chichikov]

So is Yellen a center-right nominee that is being lauded because she's a woman or is she actually something of a liberal/leftist? I don't know anything about her but I get the impression the fandom is a result of the other option being worse like everything else democrat. Is that the case?

Pretty much, but not being Larry Summers is an important skill for the chairman of the fed to have.

 

[Diablos]

Where's that itsfuckingnothing.gif when you need it?

Seriously, what would Boehner have "up his sleeve"?

Unless he's trolling and he just puts the bill on the floor or something, what could he possibly be able to do that no one else is possibly thinking of?

Also: Obama stiffed all the major networks! I didn't even realize. "WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE DOES THAT SEND," asks Bill Press on twitter. Hopefully a message that says "you all suck at reporting news".

 

[thepotatoman]

There's been stories about how Reid has basically told both Obama and Biden to stay away from negotiations and leave it to him. Which is fine by me: too many chefs spoil the broth as they say. Reid has been in the Senate long enough to know how this will play out.

Didn't Biden screw up "plan b" on the debt ceiling negotiation by accidentally leaking it to Cantor and the tea party, and then screw up the bush tax cut extension negotiation by offering the compromise for the $400,000 tax bracket instead of the $250,000 without permission?

They'd be right to put him far away from this as possible.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Pretty much, but not being Larry Summers is an important skill for the chairman of the fed to have.

She also called the housing crisis while others were ignoring it.

 

[theprodigy]

Didn't Biden screw up "plan b" on the debt ceiling negotiation by accidentally leaking it to Cantor and the tea party, and then screw up the bush tax cut extension negotiation by offering the compromise for the $400,000 tax bracket instead of the $250,000 without permission?

They'd be right to put him far away from this as possible.

PD was right....!

 

[thepotatoman]

PD was right....!

?

Edit: for the record i don't know for sure about the bush tax cuts, just something i heard. But I'm positive about the plan b thing. Maybe I'll look up that NYT article about it.

 

[theprodigy]

?

about Biden screwing up Reid's plans back then

 

[Fox318]

The only negotiation I could possibly accept is one that gets rid of the debt ceiling forever and a provision if you cannot pass a CR the previous one is automatically instated.

To get that, throw them the medical device tax.

Would never happen. No cr would ever get passed.

 

[PhoenixDark]

PD was right....!

Let's not forget he also fucked up the sequestration timing during the fiscal cliff negotiations.

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 23m
With Portman, Ryan, Boehner focused on setting up fiscal talks, that's the sign of where leadership is headed, more than today's bk & forth

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 26m
This will be a major test for Ryan--can he use his much-hyped capital to sway righty pals onto a broader fiscal strategy as clock ticks

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 28m
...Tea Party types wanted defund O'care war; Leadership types wanted to defund but thought trades for entmt made more sense in divided gov't

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 29m
The real strategic divide in GOP isn't just whether to attached O'care to CR/DL, but what to fight for on CR/DL...

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 30m
One impt takeaway from Ryan's WSJ oped: Republican power brokers (McConnell, Ryan, etc) have always wanted entmt ref as part of fiscal deal

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 36m
Behind scenes, a short-term DL ext + fiscal talks inches ahead as a possibility. Boehner, tho, may not have the votes http://natl.re/18NS60D

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 55m
beyond the fiery rhetoric, there's talk of talks--and Boehner has to convince Rs that DL ext + talks will be worth it http://natl.re/1fhjcT4

They. just. won't. give. up.

GET OVER PPACA ALREADY.

"Major test" for Ryan my ass. Does he move forward without Obamacare? Off with his head! Does he move forward with delay/repeal? He's a hero to the Tea Party caucus.

 

[Jooney]

They. just. won't. give. up.

GET OVER PPACA ALREADY.

They can't. They've backed themselves into this corner. After endless rhetoric about the evils of Obamacare, after 42 votes to repeal it, they've created a monster in the Tea Party that won't allow them to back down without there being consequences.

The fact that they think they are entitled to some form of legislative gain out of this budget process is laughable.

 

[Tamanon]

Daily Show brought in a hostage negotiator for the shutdown. And it's awesome so far.

 

[Diablos]

They can't. They've backed themselves into this corner. After endless rhetoric about the evils of Obamacare, after 42 votes to repeal it, they've created a monster in the Tea Party that won't allow them to back down without there being consequences.

The fact that they think they are entitled to some form of legislative gain out of this budget process is laughable.

That's just it -- they think they are innocent. Or feel as though they are entitled to act that way. They need to pull their heads out of their asses.

Robert Costa ‏@robertcostaNRO 2m
Ryan oped, House Rs tell me, signals opening of the ldrshp's final move; but getting to 218 will be tough, may need adjustments/add-ons

Work with Democrats.

 

[Officerrob]

There is no chance the Tea Partiers go along with a temporary CR and raising of the debt ceiling in exchange for negotiations, none

 

[B-Dubs]

Daily Show brought in a hostage negotiator for the shutdown. And it's awesome so far.

The guy lent himself so well to the situation, it was absolutely scary. I'm starting to think Obama and Reid should hand this whole thing off to the FBI and have them take care of it.

 

[Fenderputty]

In was hoping that after the election I wouldn't have to hear about Ryan anymore.

 

[teiresias]

There is no chance the Tea Partiers go along with a temporary CR and raising of the debt ceiling in exchange for negotiations, none

I agree, and that puts Boehner in the same position he was in on the fiscal cliff before if he obviously can't get his own proposal through via the Hastert rule. Hell, that may be what he wants to give himself an out and have to bring the clean CR/DL up. That leadership has abandoned the ACA nonsense seems at least some progress.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I agree, and that puts Boehner in the same position he was in on the fiscal cliff before if he obviously can't get his own proposal through via the Hastert rule. Hell, that may be what he wants to give himself an out and have to bring the clean CR/DL up. That leadership has abandoned the ACA nonsense seems at least some progress.

Pretty much. The minute this bill is revealed we all know what's going to happen:

1. Heritage Foundation will oppose it due to the lack of anti-Obamacare language
2. Ted Cruz will call it weak

And then the rats will begin jumping ship.

 

[Diablos]

I'm not even Diablosing right now, so you shouldn't be either.

If nothing else Obama despite previous statements did not rule out using the 14th during his press conf. He did admit he wasn't a fan of other "options" to "try", but he did not outright denounce it either. That alone makes me feel a lot better, even though it really hasn't been done before.

 

[teiresias]

I'm not even Diablosing right now, so you shouldn't be either.

If nothing else Obama despite previous statements did not rule out using the 14th during his press conf. He did admit he wasn't a fan of other "options" to "try", but he did not outright denounce it either. That alone makes me feel a lot better, even though it really hasn't been done before.

Yes and the moves from GOP leadership indicated by Costa and Ryan seem encouraging. I'm just not sure if this move from leadership results in dems approving the bill that includes talks or Boehner being forced to bring up the completely clean CR. I'd also prefer something other than some month long extension, as having to do this all over again in four weeks is far from appealing.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Many remain locked out of federal health-care Web site

Major insurers, state health-care officials and Democratic allies repeatedly warned the Obama administration in recent months that the new federal health-insurance exchange had significant problems, according to people familiar with the conversations. Despite those warnings and intense criticism from Republicans, the White House proceeded with an Oct. 1 launch.

A week after the federal Web site opened, technical problems continued to plague the system, and on Tuesday people were locked out until 10 a.m., although some applicants were able to sign up as the day went on. Officials said they were working 24 hours a day to improve the system and that they were confident it would soon be able to meet the demand. They added that there was ample time to correct the site to allow consumers to get insured by Jan. 1.

“This is a question of volume and demand exceeding anything that people anticipated,” said White House strategist David Simas, who is helping to oversee the law’s implementation. “I am confident people are working through these issues. . . . It is steady improvement.”

Rep. Robert E. Andrews (D-N.J.), who played a key role in passing the health-care law and has worked on its implementation, said he told White House officials early this summer he had been hearing from insurers that the online system had flaws.

“Nothing I told them ever surprised them,” Andrews said in an interview. “The White House has acknowledged all along something this massive was going to have implementation problems.”

Two allies of the administration, both of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the controversy surrounding the rollout, said they approached White House officials this year to raise concerns that the federal exchange was not ready to launch. In both cases, Obama officials assured them there was no cause for alarm.

Robert Laszewski, a health-care consultant with clients in the insurance industry, said insurers were complaining loudly that the site, www.healthcare.gov, was not working smoothly during frequent teleconferences with officials at the Department of Health and Human Services before the exchange’s launch and afterward. “People were pulling out their hair,” he said.

One senior administration official, who requested anonymity to describe the internal White House discussions, said the administration was prepared to encounter some challenges with the launch, “but we had a lot more traffic than we thought, and so discovered problems managing that load.”

Administration officials continued Tuesday to decline to say how many people have gone through all the steps to pick a health plan through the Web site. They said they would give a monthly tally, probably starting in mid-November.

Last week, HHS and White House officials gave updates on the number of people who had logged onto the site, noting that 8.6 million unique visitors had logged on in the first three days and up to 250,000 were on at one time. On Tuesday, an HHS official said that “an extraordinary number of people are coming to check out” the Web site, without offering specifics.

more at http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...71e6-302c-11e3-bbed-a8a60c601153_story_1.html

 

[Diablos]

The website sucks. I still can't see my final application and what I'm eligible for.

I tried chatting with someone and they could not have been more unprofessional. They were basically like "lol yah we're having probs, other people get the same thing, kthx bye"

Oh well.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

more at http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...71e6-302c-11e3-bbed-a8a60c601153_story_1.html

Has anyone ever bought enough servers to run an anticipated website/game? It's unthinkable that they weren't prepared for high traffic.

So dumb.

 

[Jooney]

Does anyone think that Obama lied about not being willing to raise the debt ceiling via the 14th amendment because he doesn't want to publicly relieve the pressure off Congress to do its job?

 

[ISOM]

Does anyone think that Obama lied about not being willing to raise the debt ceiling via the 14th amendment because he doesn't want to publicly relieve the pressure off Congress to do its job?

I don't think Obama lied. He effectively said that even if he did use it the damage to the economy would be done because the trust in buying bonds wouldn't be there as obviously any 14th amendment action would be brought to court by tea party people and litigated over for a long time.

 

[pigeon]

Does anyone think that Obama lied about not being willing to raise the debt ceiling via the 14th amendment because he doesn't want to publicly relieve the pressure off Congress to do its job?

Lied? Obama may not be the perfect politician, but he's a better politician than that.

And I know there's been some discussion, for example, about my powers under the 14th Amendment to go ahead and ignore the debt ceiling law. Setting aside the legal analysis, what matters is -- is that if you start having a situation in which there -- there's legal controversy about the U.S. Treasury's authority to issue debt, the damage will have been done even if that were constitutional, because people wouldn't be sure. It'd be tied up in litigation for a long time. That's going to make people nervous.

So -- so a lot of the strategies that people have talked about -- well, the president can roll out a big coin and -- or, you know, he can -- he can resort to some other constitutional measure -- what people ignore is that ultimately what matters is, what do the people who are buying Treasury bills think? And again, I'll -- I'll just boil it down in very personal terms.

If you're buying a house, and you're not sure whether the seller has title to the house, you're going to be pretty nervous about buying it. And at minimum, you'd want a much cheaper price to buy that house because you wouldn't be sure whether or not you're going to own it at the end. Most of us would just walk away because no matter how much we like the house, we'd say to ourselves the last thing I want is to find out after I've bought it that I don't actually own it.

Well, the same thing is true if I'm buying Treasury bills from the U.S. government, and here I am sitting here -- you know, what if there's a Supreme Court case deciding that these aren't valid, that these aren't, you know, valid legal instruments obligating the U.S. government to pay me? I'm going to be stressed, which means I may not purchase. And if I do purchase them, I'm going to ask for a big premium.

So there are no magic bullets here. There's one simple way of doing it, and that is Congress going in and voting. And the fact that right now there are votes, I believe, to go ahead and take this drama off the table should at least be tested. Speaker Boehner keeps on saying he doesn't have the votes for it, and what I've said is, put it on the floor. See what happens. And at minimum, let every member of Congress be on record. Let them -- let them vote to keep the government open or not, and they can determine where they stand and defend that vote to their constituencies. And let them vote on whether or not America should pay its bills or not. And if, in fact, some of these folks really believe that it's not that big of a deal, they can vote no.

And that'll be useful information to -- for voters to have. And if it fails and we do end up defaulting, I think voters should know exactly who voted not to pay our bills, so that they can be responsible for the consequences that come with it.

Can you find the bit in this answer where he says "I don't have the authority to bypass the debt ceiling"?

 

[A Black Falcon]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/u...default-wouldnt-be-that-bad.html?ref=politics

In the long run, would we have a democracy left if these people keep getting their way?

 

[PhoenixDark]

Just watched Obama's presser, pretty strong performance although I hate the household analogies. Some worked but ultimately it starts a slippery slope where you welcome other analogies that don't work (specifically US government debt vs household debt).

The absolute best part was watching Chuck Todd and the other TV reporters squirm in the front seats as they slowly realized Obama wasn't going to call their name.

 

[Jooney]

'Lied' was a bad word - perhaps 'not wanting to reveal his hand' would be better phrasing. My bad.

I raise this because there could be a possibility where Obama doesn't' want to publicly acknowledge his use of the 14A option because that would release the pressure off Congress to do its job. If he said it was an option on the table, that could lead to the GOP Congress testing Obama's will to use it. By taking it off the table, it means Obama is putting the pressure and hopefully, public scrutiny, on the GOP to a clean Debt Ceiling raise.

 

[pigeon]

'Lied' was a bad word - perhaps 'not wanting to reveal his hand' would be better phrasing. My bad.

I raise this because there could be a possibility where Obama doesn't' want to publicly acknowledge his use of the 14A option because that would release the pressure off Congress to do its job. If he said it was an option on the table, that could lead to the GOP Congress testing Obama's will to use it. By taking it off the table, it means Obama is putting the pressure and hopefully, public scrutiny, on the GOP to a clean Debt Ceiling raise.

Oh, yeah. Sorry, I guess I didn't make my point clear. I don't think it's at all accidental that Obama spoke at that length about how he wouldn't use the 14th amendment without mentioning the fact that his administration has previously said he couldn't even do it. If he wasn't at least considering the possibility, he would just have said it's not constitutional.

 

[thepotatoman]

about Biden screwing up Reid's plans back then

Ah I see. Embarrassingly, I think I might have taken PD's supposition as fact about the Bush tax cut thing.

But to make up for it, I did found the source for the Plan B failure.

Excited White House aides suddenly felt that a deal might really be possible. But even with more revenue now on the table, Boehner and Obama continued to go back and forth over the Rubik’s Cube-like structure of a comprehensive deal — whether entitlement cuts would have to come before tax reform, whether most of the cuts would accrue in the first decade or the second and so on. Meanwhile, political pressure was building from inside Boehner’s leadership circle. Cantor, who had heard about the Obama-Boehner talks only when Biden happened to mention it, was nonplused at having been excluded and appalled that Boehner was offering more revenue. He and others pressed the speaker to drop the idea of a comprehensive deal, and on July 9, Boehner did just that, calling Obama at Camp David to tell him that the grand bargain was dead. He issued a statement immediately after, saying it was time for both parties to set their sights on a less ambitious solution to the debt-ceiling crisis, which now loomed less than a month away.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/m...killed-the-debt-deal.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[PhoenixDark]

If we default - it's not going to happen of course, but IF - I'd imagine Obama will try a whole bunch of things. There seems to be a perception that he's going to hide under his table doing nothing as the country explodes. He may have cards up his sleeve that we don't know about. But having listened to the presser, I don't think the 14th amendment is one of them. It's definitely true that such a move would automatically be subject to legal review and debate, which isn't a good thing during a fast moving crisis situation.

 

[PhoenixDark]

edit: double post. more glitches than Obamacare, evillore pls

 

[empty vessel]

So -- so a lot of the strategies that people have talked about -- well, the president can roll out a big coin and -- or, you know, he can -- he can resort to some other constitutional measure -- what people ignore is that ultimately what matters is, what do the people who are buying Treasury bills think? And again, I'll -- I'll just boil it down in very personal terms.

A coin doesn't require considering what people buying Treasury bills think. The bond market does not discipline us. We discipline the bond market. That’s the whole point of fiat currency. And why Libertarians sneer at it.

So there are no magic bullets here.

There is a magic bullet here. And it should become a plank of the Democratic party platform.

 

[thepotatoman]

I'm not sure that using the 14th, no matter how justified, would really solve the problem anyway.

Couldn't the mere fact that things have reached the point where Obama had to use the 14th, by itself, undermine the U.S.'s creditworthiness?

Yes, but investor confidence isn't a binary state.

 

[Mario]

I'm not sure that using the 14th, no matter how justified, would really solve the problem anyway.

Couldn't the mere fact that things have reached the point where Obama had to use the 14th, by itself, undermine the U.S.'s creditworthiness?

Well, the thing about the debt ceiling is that it is really only an artificial limitation on being able to pay debts. It's a technicality. Hitting it isn't a reflection on the US governments actual ability to pay debt or creditworthiness.

If there was a magic way to circumvent or nullify the debt ceiling technicality before or as it was reached, then everything would be fine.

 

[rocketknight]

Just watched Monday's Daily Show. Stewart was such an ignorant asshole to Sebelius. Where did that come from? Does he really not understand this stuff? That's never really been an impression he's given off before.

 

[East Lake]

Stewart's where you go to laugh at the GOP, not to learn things.

Edit: Not to imply that's where you go personally. Just a general rule.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Stewart's where you go to laugh at the GOP, not to learn things.

Edit: Not to imply that's where you go personally. Just a general rule.

Stewart's your typical NPR liberal except he happens to have a sense of humor. But, he really really really wants reasonable moderateness - see the whole rally to restore sanity and repeated visits by McCain to the show before '08. He only seems superliberal because of the idiocy of the GOP over the past decade. Remember, Krugman seemed like a sober minded centrist during the 90's as well. That's how he got a Time's column in the first place.

 

[Black Mamba]

Michael Steel, a Boehner spokesman, responded to those charges by saying that passing a spending bill at levels required by law — the Budget Control Act, which put the sequester in place — is not a concession.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/gove...ner-government-shutdown-2013-10#ixzz2hCzvuhB6

But attempting to defund or delay spending on a law, which is the law, is a concession!?!?

You can't have it both ways, Michael.

Infuriating double-speak.

"Passing that debt ceiling does not mean you default," Cavuto said. The result of not raising the debt ceiling, he said, would mean that the government would "not paying interest to U.S. bondholders. That's it."

I...

I...

I'm about done.

 

[daedalius]

I don't think my parents could be any further inside the echo chamber. Fox news on the radio in the cars, fox news on every television in the house, Rush Limbaugh's website first bookmark, Rush Limbaugh stream going every day during the day.

And they wonder why I never want to engage them about anything remotely political or important?

Hannity was super pissed about everything tonight, and Obummer is the worst president ever. I can't believe people eat this shit up so bad.

 

[thepotatoman]

But attempting to defund or delay spending on a law, which is the law, is a concession!?!?

You can't have it both ways, Michael.

Infuriating double-speak.



I...

I...

I'm about done.

I'd say they can't say anything stupider than that, but every time you think that they somehow one up themselves.

 

[BSsBrolly]

Obama should point out that House republicans strategy is essentially: "We're going to destroy the economy... to ensure the ACA doesn't destroy the economy." It makes no sense.