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[Fenderputty]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...imit-would-be-unconditional-surrender-for-gop

Doesn't this sort of rhetoric make it even harder for Boehner to capitulate while managing to save face here? I feel like republicans are digging themselves into a hole that they can't even begin to climb out of.

 

[B-Dubs]

nope.

I meant that it was slightly more spending than he outlined, which was fairly obvious given the rest of the sentence you bolded. Try taking the sentence as a whole next time. All your chart does is prove my point.

 

[KingGondo]

RT @robertcostaNRO It was an honor to meet w/ Pres. Obama today at the WH, along with a small group of journalists. Appreciate his time.

Costa had better cool it with this kind of traitorous talk.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So what's the probable endgame here? Boehner loses the game of chicken? He gets removed?

 

[Black Mamba]

I don't get this about republicans. They say they want to save american's future especially for the children but they are threatening economic catastrophe and america's future to do it. How the fuck does that make any sense?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...entire-planet-best-way-to-stop-obamacare.html

 

[Diablos]

Costa had better cool it with this kind of traitorous talk.

Haha, the rest of the NR must be fuming mad. How does a guy like Costa even wind up there, even if conservative?

 

[bonercop]

I meant that it was slightly more spending than he outlined, which was fairly obvious given the rest of the sentence you bolded. Try taking the sentence as a whole next time. All your chart does is prove my point.

look at the third item on that chart.

 

[Tamanon]

‏@mattyglesias

Best analogy for the debt ceiling—it’s as if your country needs to sell more bonds to avoid financial catastrophe, but you won’t let it.

Truth

 

[B-Dubs]

look at the third item on that chart.

Look at the last one, that's Ryan's most current budget proposal. I was going by that one, not his original, no point in talking about the original one when he's got a new one. The bottom three are the important numbers right now as they are the most current.

 

[PhoenixDark]

New York was Tuesday's big star, saying that more than 40,000 residents had completed the application process and been ruled eligible for the plans they had applied for since Obamacare enrollment began Oct. 1.

California's exchange, Covered California, came in No. 2 among the states making announcements.

The Golden State said 16,311 people had completed applications and had their eligibility verified since its site launched last week. Another 27,305 people had partially completed applications.

Washington state said 9,452 people have fully enrolled in coverage set to begin Jan. 1. Most of them, about 8,500, are going to be covered by Medicaid, the government insurance program for low-income people, with the remaining 916 covered by health plans sold by private insurers through the online state marketplace.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101096445 (more numbers at link)

 

[Manmademan]

Nothing? It's a reference to the Clint Eastwood talking to a chair thing?

That seems a bit too clever of a reference for something that's 1.) generally seen as an embarassment for republicans and 2.) coming from someone who hasn't quite mastered the art of spelling yet.

 

[Diablos]

Looks like that weekend maintenance really paid off! :lol

 

[Jooney]

Charles Krauthammer's latest column blames the creation of the Tea Party on Obama (which is perhaps the most extreme version I've read of blaming Obama for not leading Republicans out of their own shit swamp) and says that the government shutdown is Democrats being punished. Because, you know, obviously the only people hurt by a government shutdown are congressional Democrats. Obviously.

Ladies and gentlemen: the Party of Personal Responsibility.

yup, he's holding firm but he looks exasperated and just wishing the situation would go away instead of having any passion.

He's probably thinking about all the sweet Asian tail he's missing out on by skipping the APEC trip.

 

[Diablos]

Ladies and gentlemen: the Party of Personal Responsibility.

Ah, yes. The irony. If only Obama were a stark white man and didn't have a weird name, we'd all be fine!

 

[bonercop]

Look at the last one, that's Ryan's most current budget proposal. I was going by that one, not his original, no point in talking about the original one when he's got a new one. The bottom three are the important numbers right now as they are the most current.

in the context of dems constantly caving to republican pressure, it's very relevant. They are now fighting for a budget that is lower than Ryan's original ridiculous clown budget. that paul ryan feels he can get away with proposing an even more ridiculous, right-wing wet dream after so many concessions doesn't really change that.

I've said this before, but Obama's initial 1.2 trillion budget proposal was already a low budget designed to appease conservatives.look how far the republicans have managed to drag it at this point. and yet the "*~if only both sides would compromise~*" spiel is still popular as hell.
This extends to current state of the battle between republicans and democrats in general. like, if you look away from the politics: republicans have been kicking ass. They've been bitchslapping the democrats up and down the room, and have won policy victory after policy victory.

only now, are they seeing any sort of backlash for it. and that's mostly because they've let the crazy in too the deep. the democratic party strategy of "being the adults in the room" has just giving them a lot of bruises

 

[PhoenixDark]

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) plans to bring up a 'clean' debt limit increase on Tuesday, even though it's not clear that Democrats can pick up the six Republicans they would need to reach the 60-vote threshold to pass such a bill.

But a senior Senate Democratic aide told Business Insider that some Senate Democrats are "rumbling" about another route to passage: Ruling that the Senate's 60-vote threshold is unconstitutional and passing the bill with a simple majority.

"There are rumblings within the caucus, but no serious discussions yet," said the aide, when asked if Democrats might make the rule change often known as the "nuclear option."

Senate Democrats have previously discussed making this rule change, most recently in June during a controversy over stalled executive branch nominations. But proposals to use the "nuclear option" have been stalled by opposition from Republicans and a handful of Senate Democrats, including Carl Levin (Mich.), according to the Washington Post.

If Levin and other reluctant Democrats are ever going to be convinced to support a rule change on filibusters, the debt ceiling seems like the optimal scenario: A situation where Republican opposition is especially irresponsible and Senate action could pressure the House to take action to save the U.S. economy from serious damage.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sena...ass-a-debt-ceiling-hike-2013-10#ixzz2hAZ4uOmZ

hmmm

Is this Reid's first mistake? I support ending the filibuster or substantially changing it, that's not the question: but is it too early to call Boehner's bluff? I'd give him more time to fail, and then pass this on Friday evening. If it fails today, I doubt they'll outright kill the filibuster. Reid will probably regroup and try again during the weekend. So why not wait instead of potentially courting a political loss ("Debt Ceiling Bill Fails In Senate").

 

[platypotamus]

That seems a bit too clever of a reference for something that's 1.) generally seen as an embarassment for republicans and 2.) coming from someone who hasn't quite mastered the art of spelling yet.

There were pictures posted in this thread at the time of chairs hung by nooses in trees. I am not going to search for and repost such garbage though.

 

[B-Dubs]

in the context of dems constantly caving to republican pressure, it's very relevant. They are now fighting for a budget that is lower than Ryan's original ridiculous clown budget. that paul ryan feels he can get away with proposing an even more ridiculous, right-wing wet dream doesn't really change that.

I've said this before, but Obama's initial 1.2 trillion budget proposal was already a low budget designed to appease to conservatives.look how far the republicans have managed to drag it at this point. and yet the "*~if only both sides would compromise~*" is still popular as hell.
This extends to current state of the battle between republicans and democrats in general. like, if you look away from the politics: republicans have been kicking ass. They've been bitchslapping the democrats up and down the room, and have won policy victory after policy victory.

This completely gets away from what I was saying and you called me out for though. In the context of my post I was referring to the most recent numbers, which was fairly obvious. You then called me out, I clarified that I was referring to the most recent numbers as those are the ones that mattered as far as my post and the conversation I was in went and now you posted the above. Which while accurate has nothing to do with my original post or the conversation it was involved in. None of this changes the fact I was right when I said the clean CR passed by the Senate is closer to Ryan's numbers than the Dem's proposal. I believe this is what's called moving the goal posts.

 

[teiresias]

http://www.businessinsider.com/sena...ass-a-debt-ceiling-hike-2013-10#ixzz2hAZ4uOmZ

hmmm

Is this Reid's first mistake? I support ending the filibuster or substantially changing it, that's not the question: but is it too early to call Boehner's bluff? I'd give him more time to fail, and then pass this on Friday evening. If it fails today, I doubt they'll outright kill the filibuster. Reid will probably regroup and try again during the weekend. So why not wait instead of potentially courting a political loss ("Debt Ceiling Bill Fails In Senate").

Is this the bill that includes McConnell's changes to the debt ceiling process?

 

[Diablos]

http://www.businessinsider.com/sena...ass-a-debt-ceiling-hike-2013-10#ixzz2hAZ4uOmZ

hmmm

Is this Reid's first mistake? I support ending the filibuster or substantially changing it, that's not the question: but is it too early to call Boehner's bluff? I'd give him more time to fail, and then pass this on Friday evening. If it fails today, I doubt they'll outright kill the filibuster. Reid will probably regroup and try again during the weekend. So why not wait instead of potentially courting a political loss ("Debt Ceiling Bill Fails In Senate").

Oh snap.

I can see some legal complications with that. How can one party in the Senate state that the 60-vote threshold is unconstitutional just because they say it is? Much like the 14th Amendment option there could be lots of court action should they do it.

But god dammit, it just might be a risk worth taking. The problem is it could set a really bad precedent for the future; the Republicans will remember this tactic and use it to their advantage when they get back the Senate someday. Hopefully that won't happen for years and by that point Tea Party Nation is burnt out.

Bottom line: We've gotta figure out a way to break this fever of one very small group of people quite literally holding the global economy hostage, and extra risk is necessary.

 

[rocketknight]

If we can't pass a clean debt limit bill with 60 votes in the Senate I'm not sure there's even a point to sending it to the House. The House has had a chance to approve a clean CR already and they haven't done that, so, I mean. Meh.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Costa had better cool it with this kind of traitorous talk.

You're joking, but there are already comments below his stories at the NRO calling him a RINO and saying he's more worried about fitting in at coctail parties than protecting the conservative cause.

 

[Diablos]

If we can't pass a clean debt limit bill with 60 votes in the Senate I'm not sure there's even a point to sending it to the House. The House has had a chance to approve a clean CR already and they haven't done that, so, I mean. Meh.

It puts the onus back on the House though. It could force Boehner to act when he isn't ready or willing to.

 

[bonercop]

None of this changes the fact I was right when I said the clean CR passed by the Senate is closer to Ryan's numbers than the Dem's proposal. I believe this is what's called moving the goal posts.

this is the original post you replied to:

Yeah, I thought I remembered seeing that this CR is actually less than Ryan's original budget. That is some truly sad shit.

So it sounds like to me the democrats have compromised way too much already, yet everything they have given up has somehow eluded the entire media.

notice the bolded. you responded to this with "nope. it's higher than what ryan outlined". in that context you were wrong.

either way, who gives a shit. my previous post was more about affirming why the current state of affairs is "some truly sad shit" as ido said.

 

[Manmademan]

Oh snap.

I can see some legal complications with that. How can one party in the Senate state that the 60-vote threshold is unconstitutional just because they say it is? Much like the 14th Amendment option there could be lots of court action should they do it.

But god dammit, it just might be a risk worth taking. The problem is it could set a really bad precedent for the future; the Republicans will remember this tactic and use it to their advantage when they get back the Senate someday. Hopefully that won't happen for years and by that point Tea Party Nation is burnt out.

Bottom line: We've gotta figure out a way to break this fever of one very small group of people quite literally holding the global economy hostage, and extra risk is necessary.

not really. the filibuster is simply a senate rule, Reid can eliminate it whenever he wants with a simple majority vote, which he has. There is no "court action" that could stop this.

Ruling it "unconstitutional" is just an excuse for him to take action to get rid of it. He doesn't actually need the supreme court to agree with him. He could just as easily get rid of it because "it's thursday."

 

[jamesinclair]

From 10/1

Over or under 7 days?

I say over.

I say over too. About 3 weeks is my guess .

Depends how fast public opinion turns against them. With that in mind, I say 5-7 days.

Wild stab at 2 weeks.

There's really one good thing that's come out of this idiocy. It decreases the odds of having a fight over the debt ceiling.

So it'll last for three weeks. Things get so bad for the GOP that they agree to a budget with pre-sequestration cuts and raises the debt ceiling.
.

Over. 9 days.

Like I said, 16 days. We're taking this into the debt ceiling debate.

I think the government will shutdown until the Republicans win the Senate and the White House.

My gut says under, but my gut also acted upon the assumption that Boehner is a ratoinal player in this situation and that this wouldn't happen, so I'm going with over. This'll last until the debt ceiling fight.

60 days. Who's with me.

Remember when the sequester was never going to happen, ever?
Put me down for Thanksgiving.

Why was Oblivion banned?
How do I strike through?

 

[Mike M]

Oh snap.

I can see some legal complications with that. How can one party in the Senate state that the 60-vote threshold is unconstitutional just because they say it is? Much like the 14th Amendment option there could be lots of court action should they do it.

Because it is a parliamentary rule, not a law, and those can be changed (or ignored, as seen in the Wendy Davis filibuster a few months ago) at a whim.

 

[B-Dubs]

From 10/1





Why was Oblivion banned?

I talked with him a bit about it and it was for a joke he made in this thread (from what he can tell). He'll be back in two weeks unless he gets a pardon. PoliGAF's been dangerous lately.

 

[Diablos]

not really. the filibuster is simply a senate rule, Reid can eliminate it whenever he wants with a simple majority vote, which he has. There is no "court action" that could stop this.

Ruling it "unconstitutional" is just an excuse for him to take action to get rid of it. He doesn't actually need the supreme court to agree with him. He could just as easily get rid of it because "it's thursday."

Then why hasn't Reid eliminated it before? Opposition within his own party perhaps.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Then why hasn't Reid eliminated it before?

There wasn't 50 Senator's who wanted too?

 

[B-Dubs]

Then why hasn't Reid eliminated it before? Opposition within his own party perhaps.

Because it's Harry Reid and he doesn't want to change stuff too much.

 

[Manmademan]

Then why hasn't Reid eliminated it before? Opposition within his own party perhaps.

The same reason why Republicans didn't get rid of it when they controlled the house and senate during the bush era- although they did threaten to if senate democrats didn't give them what they wanted a few times.

The filibuster is pretty much the only thing giving the minority party any kind of bargaining power within the senate, (there is already virtually none in the house) and most of the long term senators are well aware that even if their party is currently in power, things can change VERY quickly in a few years and they could be on the other side of argument.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Because it's Harry Reid and he doesn't want to change stuff too much.

That, and the senate is full of other old bulls unwilling to change the rules. McCain would attempt to rally support against it, again.

I would only due it under dire circumstances (say...October 14th) after a filibuster. The only way I see republicans filibustering is if Reid calls a vote today, which some republican senators may see as too early; they may not be crazy like House republicans, but I'd imagine they wouldn't mind giving Boehner more time to make his next/final move.

 

[Diablos]

The same reason why Republicans didn't get rid of it when they controlled the house and senate during the bush era- although they did threaten to if senate democrats didn't give them what they wanted a few times.

The filibuster is pretty much the only thing giving the minority party any kind of bargaining power within the senate, (there is already virtually none in the house) and most of the long term senators are well aware that even if their party is currently in power, things can change VERY quickly in a few years and they could be on the other side of argument.

Yeah I know the filibuster is the last line of defense against something not wanted, I didn't realize so many Democrats were opposed however to eliminating it.

 

[Mike M]

Yeah I know the filibuster is the last line of defense against something not wanted, I didn't realize so many Democrats were opposed however to eliminating it.

Not sure how you could miss it, filibuster reform and its obstacles are well trod ground for discussion in Poli-GAF

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Watching Crossfire. I'm constantly impressed at the ability of conservatives to get every talking point in on any conversation. It's a skill.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Funny thing, I was looking up Robert Costa to see who he was (National Review reporter, okay), but then learned that there's another Robert Costa, who's a Republican House Delegate in my state's state-level government.

What were the odds that there would be two Robert Costas both involved with Republican politics at the same time, even if one's only a reporter on the federal-level and the other's only state-level?

 

[empty vessel]

Watching Crossfire. I'm constantly impressed at the ability of conservatives to get every talking point in on any conversation. It's a skill.

Their talking points are the only things in their heads. There is no substance. So, for them, it's easy.

 

[Diablos]

Is it me or does Stephanie Cutter always seem... nervous?

I remember watching a vid of her and sippy cup arguing over education, and Cutter almost looked like she wanted to cry.

 

[GhaleonEB]

From 10/1

Why was Oblivion banned?
How do I strike through?

Like this.

 

[Tamanon]

Funny thing, I was looking up Robert Costa to see who he was (National Review reporter, okay), but then learned that there's another Robert Costa, who's a Republican House Delegate in my state's state-level government.

What were the odds that there would be two Robert Costas both involved with Republican politics at the same time, even if one's only a reporter on the federal-level and the other's only state-level?

I'd say it'd be 1-to-1 odds.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Funny thing, I was looking up Robert Costa to see who he was (National Review reporter, okay), but then learned that there's another Robert Costa, who's a Republican House Delegate in my state's state-level government.

What were the odds that there would be two Robert Costas both involved with Republican politics at the same time, even if one's only a reporter on the federal-level and the other's only state-level?

Even Vince Gilligan couldn't write that many coincidences.

 

[Tamanon]

8 House Dems arrested for Civil Disobedience at an immigration rally. 5 arrested outside the Sudanese embassy.

I like the image of House Dems willing to work within the system for what they believe in as opposed to just shutting it down.

 

[Diablos]

8 House Dems arrested for Civil Disobedience at an immigration rally. 5 arrested outside the Sudanese embassy.

I like the image of House Dems willing to work within the system for what they believe in as opposed to just shutting it down.

Source?

edit -nvm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/08/house-democrats-arrested-immigration_n_4066253.html

WASHINGTON -- Eight Democratic members of Congress joined with activists on Tuesday to block a street in view of the Capitol, an attempt to reignite immigration reform efforts that have stalled out in the House.

Reps. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.), John Lewis (D-Ga.), Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), Joe Crowley (D-N.Y.), Al Green (D-Texas), Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) and Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.) participated in the protest. More than 200 people were arrested in total, including faith leaders, members of advocacy groups and other activists.

 

[Black Mamba]

Yellen!!!!!!

@BloombergNews: BREAKING: President Obama said to ready Janet Yellen for nomination as Fed chief

 

[B-Dubs]

Yellen!!!!!!

 

[Tamanon]

Ha! Fuck ya'll who thought he would be going for Summers or someone of his ilk.

This is probably the biggest sign that he doesn't give a fuck about the GOP any more.

 

[Diablos]

WHATS EVERYONE YELLIN ABOUT

Spoiler

This is great news

 

[PhoenixDark]

8 House Dems arrested for Civil Disobedience at an immigration rally. 5 arrested outside the Sudanese embassy.

I like the image of House Dems willing to work within the system for what they believe in as opposed to just shutting it down.

I loathe the idea of politicians using arrest as a political stunt. Ellison's camp is sending photos out of him being handcuffed. It's all a game.

 

[BSsBrolly]

So instead of getting angry at all the ignorant Republicans posting shit on my facebook news feed, I've decided I'm just going to troll the shit out of these people. It soooo much more satisfying.