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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Interesting turn of events. Yesterday Paul Ryan released a WSJ op ed that detailed a plan to use default as leverage for entitlement cuts. The article doesn't mention Obamacare once, which resulted in the Heritage Foundation and other conservatives attacking Paul Ryan.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...an-didn-t-address-obamacare-in-debt-proposals

As mentioned earlier, NBC is reporting the Koch brothers are claiming they never tried to tie Obamacare defunding to the shutdown
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/koch-industries-were-not-behind-obamacare-defunding/

Just a few minutes ago Boehner spoke in the House and began attacking Obamacare and calling for delays/repeals. Far right media are praising this as a return to "shutdown is about Obamacare" language.

It seems to me like Ryan's plan has been rejected by House republicans, and now Boehner has returned to an Obamacare focus. Let's not forget, most of this week has not been focused on Obamacare, it's been nearly entirely about budget and entitlement negotiations. If Ryan's pivot has failed, I see no path for Boehner. Perhaps he'll return to short piecemeal CRs. But clearly we're truly near the end now.
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Can't link on my mobile but a couple big things on twitter:

-Koch Industries sent a letter to House republicans today saying they do not support tying Obamacare to shutdown/debt ceiling

-Boehner and Cantor are meeting with Pelosi and Hoyer right now, behind closed doors
Click to expand...

Game, set, match. Ryan and Cantor's op-eds were the beginning of the climb down, and this is step two.

Agreed with you, Phoenix, that there's probably some more twists and turns, but this surely is the endgame now.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Another sign: initial reports claimed Pelosi called the meeting, but now it looks like there is no confirmation on who called it.

Who knows. Boehner left the meeting and immediately went to the floor to shit talk Obamacare, which seems like a pretty damn desperate message to the tea party.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Rep. Bill Young (FL-13, R) is retiring

Daily Kos Elections said:
What makes Young's departure so intriguing is that he's one of just a handful of Republicans who represents a district Barack Obama won in 2012, in this case by a 50.1 to 48.6 margin. That makes Florida's 13th District the first truly competitive open seat of the 2014 midterms, and you can bet Democrats will fight hard to try to pick it up.
Click to expand...
Add it to the pile: IL-13, FL-13, CO-06, CA-31, MI-01

Dems up 5 on the generic ballot courtesy of PPP, including a 9-point lead with independents.

nancy-pelosi-gavel.jpg
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
The Far right is not smart. Obamacare is the worst possible route they can take. Cutting spending for debt ceiling is popular. Defunding and delay Obamacare before they open the government isn't.

NBC's story about death benefits kinda annoyed me. Same with all the Parks, Cancer, WIC stories. They frame it as some great injustice and I agree its outrageous and wrong but when the government can't legally spend money, it can't do the things it normally does. Blame the shutdown and intransigence. Don't go around acting like its a surprise or national disgrace when the government shutdown and they can't do popular things.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
empty vessel said:
It would be a great precedent! And I wouldn't get your economic views from Wikipedia. The bit that you quoted reflects a sorely deficient understanding of the monetary system and banking, beginning at the very first sentence: "The Fed's purchase of the trillion dollar coin would be largely analogous to the securities purchases that are part of Quantitative easing (QE), in both cases adding to the monetary base, which is the sum of currency in circulation and bank reserves."

First, the Fed doesn't purchase the coin. It is deposited by the Treasury. Second, the deposit does not affect the sum of currency in circulation and bank reserves, because the Fed simply credits the Treasury's account in the amount of the face value of the coin. Third, this is not at all analogous to QE. In QE the Fed buys financial assets. The Fed buys nothing when the Treasury mints a coin. That's three mistakes in one sentence, which is pretty damn remarkable.
Click to expand...
Technically, the fed does buy the coin from the bureau of printing and engraving. Not at a cost of the value of the coin or anything but it pays a premium.
 
R

Riki

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Another sign: initial reports claimed Pelosi called the meeting, but now it looks like there is no confirmation on who called it.

Who knows. Boehner left the meeting and immediately went to the floor to shit talk Obamacare, which seems like a pretty damn desperate message to the tea party.
Click to expand...
Last ditch efforts from a man and a party that knows they lost.
Just end it already.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Tom Edsall has another good article in the Times about the Tea Party. Worth a read.

Last week Greenberg released the results of six focus groups conducted with evangelical and other religiously observant Republicans (in Roanoke, Va., and Colorado Springs, Colo.), Tea Party supporters who are not evangelicals (Raleigh, N.C., and Roanoke), and moderate Republicans (Raleigh and Colorado Springs).

One of the key factors pushing Republicans to extremes, according to Greenberg’s report, is the intensity of animosity toward Obama. This animosity among participants in all six focus groups is reflected in Figure 2, which represents a “word cloud” of focus group references to the president, with the size of each word in the cloud proportional to the frequency with which it was used.

In the six focus groups of Republican voters, according to Greenberg’s report, “few explicitly talk about Obama in racial terms,” but

the base supporters are very conscious of being white in a country with growing minorities. Their party is losing to a Democratic Party of big government whose goal is to expand programs that mainly benefit minorities. Race remains very much alive in the politics of the Republican Party.

Voters like this, according to the report, are convinced that they have lost the larger battle:

While many voters, including plenty of Democrats, question whether Obama is succeeding and getting his agenda done, Republicans think he has won. The country as a whole may think gridlock has triumphed, particularly in the midst of a Republican-led government shutdown, but Republicans see a president who has fooled and manipulated the public, lied, and gotten his secret socialist-Marxist agenda done. Republicans and their kind of Americans are losing.

In his report for the Democracy Corps, Greenberg describes the Republican base electorate as fearful of being strategically outmaneuvered:

They think they face a victorious Democratic Party that is intent on expanding government to increase dependency and therefore electoral support. It starts with food stamps and unemployment benefits; expands further if you legalize the illegals; but insuring the uninsured dramatically grows those dependent on government. They believe this is an electoral strategy — not just a political ideology or economic philosophy. If Obamacare happens, the Republican Party may be lost, in their view.

Conservative troops blame moderate Republican for what they see as Democratic victories. The Republican base

thinks they are losing politically and losing control of the country – and their starting reaction is “worried,” “discouraged,” “scared,” and “concerned” about the direction of the country – and a little powerless to change course. They think Obama has imposed his agenda, while Republicans in D.C. let him get away with it.
Click to expand...
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Black Mamba said:
Technically, the fed does buy the coin from the bureau of printing and engraving. Not at a cost of the value of the coin or anything but it pays a premium.
Click to expand...

It "purchases" it in the same way that one "purchases" a demand deposit from the bank. Regardless of how one wants to semantically describe it, the coin will not be circulated in the economy. And even if the Fed had the power to sell it, it is hard to imagine that any bank would want to buy it. A coin with a face value of $1 trillion is ironically useless to hold. It does not accrue interest, cannot be invested, and cannot purchase anything.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
empty vessel said:
It "purchases" it in the same way that one "purchases" a demand deposit from the bank. Regardless of how one wants to semantically describe it, the coin will not be circulated in the economy. And even if the Fed had the power to sell it, it is hard to imagine that any bank would want to buy it. A coin with a face value of $1 trillion is ironically useless to hold. It does not accrue interest, cannot be invested, and cannot purchase anything.
Click to expand...

I'm just clarifying that the fed technically purchases all physical bills and coins from the BE&P.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
T

teiresias

Member
Black Mamba said:
ruh roh
Click to expand...

A few days ago I'd have disagreed and said Yaaaay, but at this point it's obvious that the rationale side of this party needs to wrestle back control so we have an actual two party system in this country where I can at least entertain the notion that the R party isn't completely inept.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
L O fucking L

Where's the unskewed version?

Honestly though, how much of that is crazy tea party types also saying they're unhappy with the GOP?
 
R

rocketknight

Member
zero shift said:
Stewart isn't as intelligent as people say he is. He's a fantastic debater but not the smartest guy on the block, though he is definitely not dumb and nails points at times. His ideology is of a typical American liberal.
Click to expand...

Most American liberals understand why the large employer mandate and individual mandate aren't equivalent, though, I thought. 80% of Stewart's interview was him yelling a stupid GOP talking point at the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Granted, she did a shitty job by not explaining it to him like a kindergartener, but I expect better of Stewart. I guess I shouldn't.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
You guys missed the point, Stewart was just trying to get her to admit what anyone who understands Obamacare already knows: that getting young, healthy Americans to buy health insurance is critical for the law to function. In other words, people who don't necessarily need health care have to pay for people who do. It's the one point that proponents of the law, including the administration, have consistently danced around.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
zero shift said:
Stewart isn't as intelligent as people say he is. He's a fantastic debater but not the smartest guy on the block, though he is definitely not dumb and nails points at times. His ideology is of a typical American liberal.
Click to expand...
Wrong. He may be a liberal, but he's a media type that plays "both sides" card every now and then. This was apparent to everyone since his rally to restore sanity rally. I guess thats how he is able to rope in nutballs like Grover Norquist, crazy bible historians and Billo Reilly so I dont really blame him. He was just really bad with Sebellius. Colbert is really much better.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
RustyNails said:
Wrong. He may be a liberal, but he's a media type that plays "both sides" card every now and then. This was apparent to everyone since his rally to restore sanity rally. I guess thats how he is able to rope in nutballs like Grover Norquist, crazy bible historians and Billo Reilly so I dont really blame him. He was just really bad with Sebellius. Colbert is really much better.
Click to expand...

I like Colbert because he really seems to care about people even though on the surface his character is the opposite, he really seems to have been have influenced by social justice teachings. Jon has this air of educated privileged liberalism, he cares, but I don't see the same type of empathy he seems detached.

And,Shut up wolf
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Wait just hold on for a minute


Does wolf blitzer think that healthcare.gov rollout hitches are happening because obamacare law has problems?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Sounds like we have an end date, fellas

Senior House GOP source: Debt deal may require Democratic help

Washington (CNN) – A Senior House GOP source concedes to CNN that to get the White House on board with a debt ceiling deal, House Republicans would likely have to agree to a clean short term debt ceiling increase. In exchange, Republicans would need to get clear and specific parameters from the White House for discussions and negotiations on ways to reduce the debt and deficit.

This source believes that at the end of the day, enough people in the GOP caucus could be OK with this because the economic implication of breaching the debt limit "scares people." This source also acknowledged that under this scenario, House GOP leaders may have to agree to pass a debt ceiling bill without all Republicans on board, and with Democratic support.

The source also told CNN the key date to look for is Tuesday October 15th. If nothing is agreed upon by then, it could be the day that forces a solution.

Why?

Because the markets are closed Monday, Columbus Day, and if the markets are going to react to the lack of a deal, it would likely happen on Tuesday October 15th. Also, October 15th is a federal payroll day.

That means serious talks and movement really have to happen by this coming long weekend.

But multiple GOP sources tell CNN it is hard to nail down a path forward because there are still no direct conversations going on, and the White House will not talk.
Click to expand...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...source-debt-deal-may-require-democratic-help/
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
mightynine said:
Don't know, think I'll wait for the Rassmusen polls for what real Americans think.
Click to expand...
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance. Forty-nine percent (49%) disapprove
Click to expand...

Fifty-one percent (51%) of voters would rather have Congress end the shutdown by authorizing spending for the health care law at existing levels. Forty-one percent (41%) would rather continue the shutdown until spending for the law is cut.
Click to expand...
Welp
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
There it is.

I wonder what fail-safes are put in place to ensure we're not right back in the same position in 6 weeks.

Then again (as I argue with myself here), I guess this definitively proves the GOP doesn't have the stones to let the debt ceiling lapse.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
There it is.

I wonder what fail-safes are put in place to ensure we're not right back in the same position in 6 weeks.

Then again (as I argue with myself here), I guess this definitively proves the GOP doesn't have the stones to let the debt ceiling lapse.
Click to expand...
You'd think they'd just agree to go to conference on the actual budget and include a year long extension of the debt limit

NOPE
 
Z

Zona

Member
Hua, interesting. I went to the NY ACA page out of curiosity, I wanted to see what coverage for myself would be if I wasn't still on my parents insurance for the next year. I made an account and logged in fine, but when it came time to enter my information it turns out NYS doesn't know I exist. It kept telling me to make sure I was correctly entering my Name, Date of Birth, and SS as it "could not find record of that individual" or something similar.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
i_am_not_jon_ames said:
There it is.

I wonder what fail-safes are put in place to ensure we're not right back in the same position in 6 weeks.

Then again (as I argue with myself here), I guess this definitively proves the GOP doesn't have the stones to let the debt ceiling lapse.
Click to expand...

The fact that Obama didn't cave and they got pounded in the polls seems like a decent failsafe.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Zona said:
Hua, interesting. I went to the NY ACA page out of curiosity, I wanted to see what coverage for myself would be if I wasn't still on my parents insurance for the next year. I made an account and logged in fine, but when it came time to enter my information it turns out NYS doesn't know I exist. It kept telling me to make sure I was correctly entering my Name, Date of Birth, and SS as it "could not find record of that individual" or something similar.
Click to expand...

Have you considered that you might not actually exist?
 
K

KingGondo

Banned
Zona said:
Hua, interesting. I went to the NY ACA page out of curiosity, I wanted to see what coverage for myself would be if I wasn't still on my parents insurance for the next year. I made an account and logged in fine, but when it came time to enter my information it turns out NYS doesn't know I exist. It kept telling me to make sure I was correctly entering my Name, Date of Birth, and SS as it "could not find record of that individual" or something similar.
Click to expand...
Spoiler alert:
You are already dead.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Where are all my Wolf fans from last week?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...ouse-should-have-delayed-obamacare-for-a-year

Wolf Blitzer said on CNN Wednesday that the Obama administration should have listened to Republicans and delayed the implementation of the Affordable Care Act.

"If they had three years to get this ready, if they weren't fully ready, they should accept the advice republicans are giving them, delay it for a year, get it to work there are health insurance sites that work great," Blitzer said. "If they didn't get it ready in time, make sure to get it right."

Blitzer was speaking with Brian Todd, a CNN reporter, about the glitches in the software for online healthcare enrolllment. Todd said that the White House ignored warnings from insurers that the programs were not ready.

"They ignored them, went full speed ahead, and said we'll work this out," Todd told Blitzer.
Click to expand...

Beaten, goddamn!
 
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