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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
It's hard to see republicans moderating anytime soon, especially if dems win again in 2016. Their southern, heartland Midwest power base will only get stronger until the next census. And even if moderate candidates pop up, there will always be Palin types willing to stir that ugly pot for outrage (and money).

I think that's partially what the scandal shit is about. The GOP gave up on its autopsy and would rather create democrat fatigue, as they did in 1999; then replay the Bush playbook with a candidate who spurns Washington DC. Rand Paul time, fellas.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
PhoenixPause said:
It's hard to see republicans moderating anytime soon, especially if dems win again in 2016. Their southern, heartland Midwest power base will only get stronger until the next census. And even if moderate candidates pop up, there will always be Palin types willing to stir that ugly pot for outrage (and money).

I think that's partially what the scandal shit is about. The GOP gave up on its autopsy and would rather create democrat fatigue, as they did in 1999; then replay the Bush playbook with a candidate who spurns Washington DC. Rand Paul time, fellas.
Click to expand...

You need to expand your vocabulary, PD.
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
PhoenixPause said:
It's hard to see republicans moderating anytime soon, especially if dems win again in 2016. Their southern, heartland Midwest power base will only get stronger until the next census. And even if moderate candidates pop up, there will always be Palin types willing to stir that ugly pot for outrage (and money).

I think that's partially what the scandal shit is about. The GOP gave up on its autopsy and would rather create democrat fatigue, as they did in 1999; then replay the Bush playbook with a candidate who spurns Washington DC. Rand Paul time, fellas.
Click to expand...

Rand Paul is the establishment.
 
J

Jooney

Member
Kudos to Chris Wallace actually asking questions about the use of the filibuster. There has been other instances where he has made statements that have deviated from the Fox playbook. Good for him.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Avon Barksdale said:
Rand Paul is the establishment.
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He's a senator sure, but far from the establishment; same with Ted Cruz (so far). John McCain is the establishment, as Bob Dole was. Paul has bucked his party since 2010, and worked with democrats on some civil liberty issues. And unlike Bush, I don't think Paul would surround himself with establishment republicans (and hawks).
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
PhoenixPause said:
He's a senator sure, but far from the establishment; same with Ted Cruz (so far). John McCain is the establishment, as Bob Dole was. Paul has bucked his party since 2010, and worked with democrats on some civil liberty issues. And unlike Bush, I don't think Paul would surround himself with establishment republicans (and hawks).
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No but you can count on him saying some amazingly stupid things.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
"There is no evidence to support this idea that Republicans will pick up a lot of votes if we give amnesty to 11 million folks," said Representative Tim Huelskamp, a Kansas Republican.
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Keep using this message. It's a great way to bring people into the party.

"We'll only do what's right if it means we pick up votes." #winningmessage #staythecourse
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
Look who was at the Heat/Pacers game tonight...

932Y0DX.png


:jnc
 
S

speculawyer

Member
PhoenixPause said:
It's hard to see republicans moderating anytime soon, especially if dems win again in 2016. Their southern, heartland Midwest power base will only get stronger until the next census. And even if moderate candidates pop up, there will always be Palin types willing to stir that ugly pot for outrage (and money).

I think that's partially what the scandal shit is about. The GOP gave up on its autopsy and would rather create democrat fatigue, as they did in 1999; then replay the Bush playbook with a candidate who spurns Washington DC. Rand Paul time, fellas.
Click to expand...
Bring it on. Captain Aqua-Buddha from Kentucky doesn't stand a chance in a national election. Romney got beat and he was a moderate Republican governor from a New England state. Crazy Paul calls for cutting aid to Israel, has a schizophrenic attitude toward drones, is not so sure on the Civil Rights Act, etc. He's going to be laughed off the ticket.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oblivion said:
Ahuahuahuah.

Enjoy your "freedom", teabaggers.
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Vermont and MA have very good healthcare systems, yet we don't see red states getting jealous or wanting to replicate their success. I disagree with Krugman there; there will always be some spin or excuse to dismiss a competent, active government. But ultimately I think expanding Medicaid will be a popular idea in many blue or purple states that are currently held by republicans (Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio especially), and eventually the only expansion hold outs will be in the GOP strongholds of the south and heartland. But perhaps even those holdouts will eventually see the light, if Arkansas' private insurance compromise works out.
 
A

Aylinato

Member
PhoenixPause said:
Agreed, the media's compliance is often stunning. You've got Fox openly saying Obama sent a Muslim cleric to that funeral, as if it's a fact. Even the most lazy journalism would reveal that the cleric was there since Afghan soldiers were being buried too, and the idea that his prayer was offensive or damning is nonsense.
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I enjoy your long write ups on politics.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Jerry Brown isn't a fan of the filibuster.
We can't have a country based on the 60-vote standard. This is serious.

We've never had to have 60 votes for appointments or day-to day-decisions. Really, you can't govern that way. That's a radical change.

How can you govern? Does England have 60? [JF note: Obviously a rhetorical question. His point is that the U.S. has the drawbacks of parliamentary democracy, including political polarization -- without the benefits, namely the ability to get things done.] I think that 60 votes could end America's ability to govern itself. We have to get rid of it.

That 60 votes is bad.
Click to expand...
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
Oh, NC

The victories were aided by the strong financial support of Art Pope, a multimillionaire who spent heavily in support of the state’s GOP candidates. The Institute for Southern Studies, a North Carolina-based research organization, said Pope’s advocacy network spent $2.2 million on 22 legislative races, winning 18. Overall, conservative organizations largely supported by Pope accounted for three-fourths of the outside money spent in North Carolina legislative races in 2010, according to the institute.

One of McCrory’s first acts after being elected governor was to install Pope, a former legislator, as the state budget chief.
Click to expand...

I'm staying in this state no later than 2015. Gotta move out.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Dax01 said:
Jerry Brown isn't a fan of the filibuster.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that "FUCK the filibuster". At one point I defended it because it is good to require more debate if needed.

But it isn't even about debate at this point since they don't get up and debate unless they want to put on publicity stunt like Rand Paul did.

And worse, the Senate is amazingly undemocratic institution as is. So if 40% of the senate can thwart the desires of the democracy then you can just use all the senators from the least populated states such that 10% of the population can have a veto on something that 90% of the population want!

So it should not be surprise that background checks failed even with the high support for it.


Fuck the filibuster, burn it with fire. It had somewhat of a point in the past but now it is just a tool of oppression by the minority. It is Apartheid.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
PhoenixPause said:
Vermont and MA have very good healthcare systems, yet we don't see red states getting jealous or wanting to replicate their success. I disagree with Krugman there; there will always be some spin or excuse to dismiss a competent, active government. But ultimately I think expanding Medicaid will be a popular idea in many blue or purple states that are currently held by republicans (Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio especially), and eventually the only expansion hold outs will be in the GOP strongholds of the south and heartland. But perhaps even those holdouts will eventually see the light, if Arkansas' private insurance compromise works out.
Click to expand...

Well, I think one difference is that Mass and Vermont had UHC long before there was any talk of national UHC. When you have 50-70% of the country with good, working UHC programs, there'll be a little bit more pressure on the deep red states to cut the crap.

Or maybe not, but who cares about those states at that point?

PhoenixPause said:
More importantly, he lied under oath...
Click to expand...

Isn't this a myth?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Dax01 said:
Oh, NC

I'm staying in this state no later than 2015. Gotta move out.
Click to expand...

Lawmakers are also considering proposals to reduce and flatten income tax rates while expanding the sales tax, perhaps to even include groceries and prescription drugs — which some advocates see as a first step toward eliminating the state income tax.

“North Carolina is a high-income-tax state, and we’re suffering the consequences,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Phil Berger (R). “Our unemployment rate is the fifth worst in the country, and our high tax rates are hindering economic growth and pushing jobs to our neighbors.”
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This is just stupid. Do they really think that shifting the tax burden to the poor is going to help the economy? Madness. Their economy is shit because manufacturing moved overseas.

Do they really think lots of rich people are going to move to North Carolina and set up jobs by lowering income tax rates?


The GOP has gone from dumb to dumber. They used to be just anti-tax . . . and to some degree, that does help things because it is Keynesian. But now it is just anti-tax-ON-RICH-PEOPLE (while raising taxes on the poor). And there is NOTHING that shows that helps economies. In fact that will just reduce spending because the poor people spend their money whereas the rich throw in into some off-shore tax haven.


Back-lash incoming for NC. Kasich, Rick Scott, Jinhdal and Scott Walker have gone down this path and all of them have failed.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oblivion said:
Well, I think one difference is that Mass and Vermont had UHC long before there was any talk of national UHC. When you have 50-70% of the country with good, working UHC programs, there'll be a little bit more pressure on the deep red states to cut the crap.

Or maybe not, but who cares about those states at that point?
Click to expand...
There was plenty of talk about alleged national UHC in the early 90s during the Hillarycare scare, long before MA and Vermont experimented with it. Yet neither state's success has made them examples for red states, who continue to dismiss the success of the programs; hell, the GOP 2012 primary was a perfect example of it, as multiple candidates attacked what Romney had done and questioned its effectiveness.

The outlook for full Medicaid expansion in red states isn't bright to me, especially as the GOP base becomes further marginalized to regional power in the south and heartland. The best chance is likely along the lines of Arkansas' current plan (ie using the Medicaid money to purchase private insurance plans), assuming the HHS approves it. It would cut state budgets, provide a profit windfall for hospitals/insurance companies, allow republicans to claim they didn't really implement Obamacare, and potentially stick poor people with high copays/deductibles. All of which should be quite appealing to republican governors/legislatures.

Oblivion said:
Isn't this a myth?
Click to expand...

He gave conflicting testimonies under oath...which is perjury. Many people believe he was impeached for adultery, in reality he was impeached for lying about it. Whether that crime was worth impeachment is up to you.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Exclusive: John McCain Slips Across Border Into Syria, Meets With Rebels

Sen. John McCain Monday became the highest-ranking U.S. official to enter Syria since the bloody civil war there began more than two years ago, The Daily Beast has learned.

McCain, one of the fiercest critics of the Obama administration’s Syria policy, made the unannounced visit across the Turkey-Syria border with Gen. Salem Idris, the leader of the Supreme Military Council of the Free Syrian Army. He stayed in the country for several hours before returning to Turkey. Both in Syria and Turkey, McCain and Idris met with assembled leaders of Free Syrian Army units that traveled from around the country to see the U.S. senator. Inside those meetings, rebel leaders called on the United States to step up its support to the Syrian armed opposition and provide them with heavy weapons, a no-fly zone, and airstrikes on the Syrian regime and the forces of Hezbollah, which is increasingly active in Syria.

Idris praised the McCain visit and criticized the Obama administration’s Syria policy in an exclusive interview Monday with The Daily Beast.

“The visit of Senator McCain to Syria is very important and very useful especially at this time,” he said. “We need American help to have change on the ground; we are now in a very critical situation.”
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(more at link) http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ross-border-into-syria-meets-with-rebels.html

No. No. No. No.
 
I

I am Michael Bolton

Banned
Taking a nice big break from politics for the last month has made me realize one thing; ignorance truly is bliss. Knowledge while important just creates a depressing outlook.
 
E

el retorno

Member
PhoenixPause said:
(more at link) http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ross-border-into-syria-meets-with-rebels.html

No. No. No. No.
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Its gonna get worse. And its not only Mccain that is going to cause this to happen. Hezbollah pretty much said they will let Lebanon go to hell to support Assad. That's gonna get Israel all perturbed, and I'm still shocked we haven't seen Turkey do more.

If anything this will be another libya (in that it will be a NATO mission with no boots). This isn't going to be Iraq as much as neo-isolationists want to present it as one, we're not going to be nation building.
 
C

cDNA

Member
PhoenixPause said:
He's a senator sure, but far from the establishment; same with Ted Cruz (so far). John McCain is the establishment, as Bob Dole was. Paul has bucked his party since 2010, and worked with democrats on some civil liberty issues. And unlike Bush, I don't think Paul would surround himself with establishment republicans (and hawks).
Click to expand...

He is campaigning with Mitch Mcconell and helping him avoid any primaries in Kentucky.
 
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