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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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The Autumn Wind
Republicans truly are the masters of FUD. Saying that 2014 is the "Apocalypse of Obamacare".
Let's just be thankful that it's not taking effect in 2015, where Republicans could just have everyone voting simply against the idea of Obamacare. The government is going to have nearly a year to get the program running well before midterms.
 

bananas

Banned
Republicans truly are the masters of FUD. Saying that 2014 is the "Apocalypse of Obamacare".

They realize that there will be 10 full months of Obamacare being implemented before midterms, right?

This isn't like 2010, when the warning of "socialism" was enough to win.
 
They realize that there will be 10 full months of Obamacare being implemented before midterms, right?

This isn't like 2010, when the warning of "socialism" was enough to win.
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.

We'll see. Seems like every week one of our patients comes in upset, telling us they lost coverage due to being moved to part time work. Anecdotal obviously, but happening everywhere; I really don't like that part of the law.
 

AntoneM

Member
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.

We'll see. Seems like every week one of our patients comes in upset, telling us they lost coverage due to being moved to part time work. Anecdotal obviously, but happening everywhere; I really don't like that part of the law.

Is it safe to say that most of the employers doing this are Republican voters? Can't wait for this to bite them in the ass when the hours get cut so low that the employees all end up with subsidized insurance and Dems realize they can win an election running on expanding the ACA to single payer universal care.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.

We'll see. Seems like every week one of our patients comes in upset, telling us they lost coverage due to being moved to part time work. Anecdotal obviously, but happening everywhere; I really don't like that part of the law.

But companies can do that already?
 
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.
That's exactly why Obama wasn't reelected.
Man, Obama really hates the marines, doesn't he?

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/05/24/president-obama-forgets-to-salute/

As if Umbrella-gate wasn't offensive enough.
First making one hold up an umbrella, now this? Thanks, Ocarina.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.

We'll see. Seems like every week one of our patients comes in upset, telling us they lost coverage due to being moved to part time work. Anecdotal obviously, but happening everywhere; I really don't like that part of the law.
But their employer did not have to provide coverage before. They simply could have stopped providing it altogether. Sounds like the employer is an asshole using obamacare as cover to do something they didnt have the balls to before.
 
New York Times article on the Republican scandal to neuter the IRS and commit election fraud:

When CVFC, a conservative veterans’ group in California, applied for tax-exempt status with the Internal Revenue Service, its biggest expenditure that year was several thousand dollars in radio ads backing a Republican candidate for Congress.

The Wetumpka Tea Party, from Alabama, sponsored training for a get-out-the-vote initiative dedicated to the “defeat of President Barack Obama” while the I.R.S. was weighing its application.

And the head of the Ohio Liberty Coalition, whose application languished with the I.R.S. for more than two years, sent out e-mails to members about Mitt Romney campaign events and organized members to distribute Mr. Romney’s presidential campaign literature.

Representatives of these organizations have cried foul in recent weeks about their treatment by the I.R.S., saying they were among dozens of conservative groups unfairly targeted by the agency, harassed with inappropriate questionnaires and put off for months or years as the agency delayed decisions on their applications.

But a close examination of these groups and others reveals an array of election activities that tax experts and former I.R.S. officials said would provide a legitimate basis for flagging them for closer review. ...

The stakes are high for both the I.R.S. and lawmakers in Congress, whose election fortunes next year will hinge in no small part on a flood of political spending by such advocacy groups. They are often favored by strategists and donors not for the tax benefits — they typically do not have significant income subject to tax — but because they do not have to reveal their donors, allowing them to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into elections without disclosing where the money came from.

The I.R.S. is already separately reviewing roughly 300 tax-exempt groups that may have engaged in improper campaign activity in past years, according to agency planning documents. Some election lawyers said they believed a wave of lawsuits against the I.R.S. and intensifying Congressional criticism of its handling of applications were intended in part to derail those audits, giving political nonprofit organizations a freer hand during the 2014 campaign.

After the tax agency was denounced in recent weeks by President Obama, lawmakers and critics for what they described as improper scrutiny of at least 100 groups seeking I.R.S. recognition, The New York Times examined more than a dozen of the organizations, most of them organized as 501(c)(4) “social welfare” groups under the tax code, or in some cases as 501(c)(3) charities. None ran major election advertising campaigns, according to the Campaign Media Analysis Group, the main activity of a small number of big-spending tax-exempt groups that emerged as major players in the 2010 and 2012 elections.

But some organized volunteers, distributed pamphlets and held rallies leading up to the 2010 elections or the 2012 presidential election, as conservatives fought to turn out Mr. Obama.

A report issued this month by the [Bush appointed] Treasury Department’s inspector general, J. Russell George, found that inappropriate criteria, including groups’ policy positions, were used to flag some cases and that specialists in the I.R.S. office in Cincinnati, which reviews all tax-exemption requests, sometimes asked questions that were irrelevant to the application process. ...

ome former I.R.S. officials disputed several of Mr. George’s conclusions, including his assertion that it was inappropriate to ask groups about their donors, or whether their leaders had plans to run for public office. While unusual, the former officials said, such questions are not prohibited if relevant to an application under consideration.

“The I.G. was as careless with terminology as the Cincinnati office was,” said Marcus S. Owens, who headed the I.R.S.’s exempt organizations division until 2000. “Half of those questions have been found to be germane in court decisions.”

I.R.S. agents are obligated to determine whether a 501(c)(4) group is primarily promoting “social welfare.” While such groups are permitted some election involvement, it cannot be an organization’s primary activity. That judgment does not hinge strictly on the proportion of funds a group spends on campaign ads, but on an amorphous mix of facts and circumstances.

“If you have a thousand volunteer hours and only spend a dollar, but those volunteers are to help a particular candidate, that’s a problem,” Mr. Tobin said. ...

Emerge America, which trained women to run for office, was granted 501(c)(4) recognition in 2006, but its status was revoked in 2012. Training people how to run for office is not in itself partisan activity, but the I.R.S. determined that the group trained only Democratic women and was operated to benefit one party.

At least some of the conservative groups that are complaining about I.R.S. treatment were clearly involved in election activities on behalf of Republicans or against Democrats. When CVFC, the veterans’ group, first applied for I.R.S. recognition in early 2010, it stated that it did not plan to spend any money on politics. The group, whose full name in its application was CVFC 501(c)(4), listed an address shared with a political organization called Combat Veterans for Congress PAC. CVFC told the I.R.S. that it planned to e-mail veterans about ways in which they “may engage in government” and provide “social welfare programs to assist combat veterans to get involved in government.”

But later in 2010, as it awaited an I.R.S. ruling, the organization spent close to $8,000 on radio ads backing Michael Crimmins, a Republican and a former Marine, for a House seat in San Diego, according to Federal Election Commission records.

The spending is not detailed in the group’s tax return for 2010, raising questions about whether it properly accounted for the expense to the I.R.S. The group also checked off a box marked “No” when asked if it had engaged in direct or indirect political activities on behalf of a candidate for political office.

The group received two rounds of questions from the I.R.S. in 2012, according to its lawyer, Dan Backer. They included queries about the group’s donors and its exact relationship with Combat Veterans for Congress PAC. The agency also asked about CVFC’s activities, but the group neglected to bring up its radio ads in its follow-up responses. ...

Some groups appeared to be confused or misinformed about the I.R.S. rules applying to their activity.

Tom Zawistowski, president of the Ohio Liberty Coalition, another Tea Party group that has complained about the scrutiny it received from the I.R.S., sent out regular e-mails to members about Romney campaign events and organized protests around the state to “demand the truth about Benghazi” when Mr. Obama visited before the 2012 election. The coalition also canvassed neighborhoods, handing out Romney campaign “door hangers,” Mr. Zawistowski said.

The I.R.S. usually considers such activities to be partisan. But when Mr. Zawistowski consulted his group’s lawyers, he said, he came away understanding that the I.R.S. was most concerned with radio or television advertising. He said he believed that other activities, like distributing literature for the Romney campaign, would not raise concerns.

“It’s not political activity,” he said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/u...s-chafing-at-irs-tested-political-limits.html
 
New York Times article on the Republican scandal to neuter the IRS and commit election fraud:

When CVFC, a conservative veterans’ group in California, applied for tax-exempt status with the Internal Revenue Service, its biggest expenditure that year was several thousand dollars in radio ads backing a Republican candidate for Congress.

The Wetumpka Tea Party, from Alabama, sponsored training for a get-out-the-vote initiative dedicated to the “defeat of President Barack Obama” while the I.R.S. was weighing its application.

And the head of the Ohio Liberty Coalition, whose application languished with the I.R.S. for more than two years, sent out e-mails to members about Mitt Romney campaign events and organized members to distribute Mr. Romney’s presidential campaign literature.

Representatives of these organizations have cried foul in recent weeks about their treatment by the I.R.S., saying they were among dozens of conservative groups unfairly targeted by the agency, harassed with inappropriate questionnaires and put off for months or years as the agency delayed decisions on their applications.

But a close examination of these groups and others reveals an array of election activities that tax experts and former I.R.S. officials said would provide a legitimate basis for flagging them for closer review. ...

The stakes are high for both the I.R.S. and lawmakers in Congress, whose election fortunes next year will hinge in no small part on a flood of political spending by such advocacy groups. They are often favored by strategists and donors not for the tax benefits — they typically do not have significant income subject to tax — but because they do not have to reveal their donors, allowing them to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into elections without disclosing where the money came from.

The I.R.S. is already separately reviewing roughly 300 tax-exempt groups that may have engaged in improper campaign activity in past years, according to agency planning documents. Some election lawyers said they believed a wave of lawsuits against the I.R.S. and intensifying Congressional criticism of its handling of applications were intended in part to derail those audits, giving political nonprofit organizations a freer hand during the 2014 campaign.

After the tax agency was denounced in recent weeks by President Obama, lawmakers and critics for what they described as improper scrutiny of at least 100 groups seeking I.R.S. recognition, The New York Times examined more than a dozen of the organizations, most of them organized as 501(c)(4) “social welfare” groups under the tax code, or in some cases as 501(c)(3) charities. None ran major election advertising campaigns, according to the Campaign Media Analysis Group, the main activity of a small number of big-spending tax-exempt groups that emerged as major players in the 2010 and 2012 elections.

But some organized volunteers, distributed pamphlets and held rallies leading up to the 2010 elections or the 2012 presidential election, as conservatives fought to turn out Mr. Obama.

A report issued this month by the [Bush appointed] Treasury Department’s inspector general, J. Russell George, found that inappropriate criteria, including groups’ policy positions, were used to flag some cases and that specialists in the I.R.S. office in Cincinnati, which reviews all tax-exemption requests, sometimes asked questions that were irrelevant to the application process. ...

ome former I.R.S. officials disputed several of Mr. George’s conclusions, including his assertion that it was inappropriate to ask groups about their donors, or whether their leaders had plans to run for public office. While unusual, the former officials said, such questions are not prohibited if relevant to an application under consideration.

“The I.G. was as careless with terminology as the Cincinnati office was,” said Marcus S. Owens, who headed the I.R.S.’s exempt organizations division until 2000. “Half of those questions have been found to be germane in court decisions.”

I.R.S. agents are obligated to determine whether a 501(c)(4) group is primarily promoting “social welfare.” While such groups are permitted some election involvement, it cannot be an organization’s primary activity. That judgment does not hinge strictly on the proportion of funds a group spends on campaign ads, but on an amorphous mix of facts and circumstances.

“If you have a thousand volunteer hours and only spend a dollar, but those volunteers are to help a particular candidate, that’s a problem,” Mr. Tobin said. ...

Emerge America, which trained women to run for office, was granted 501(c)(4) recognition in 2006, but its status was revoked in 2012. Training people how to run for office is not in itself partisan activity, but the I.R.S. determined that the group trained only Democratic women and was operated to benefit one party.

At least some of the conservative groups that are complaining about I.R.S. treatment were clearly involved in election activities on behalf of Republicans or against Democrats. When CVFC, the veterans’ group, first applied for I.R.S. recognition in early 2010, it stated that it did not plan to spend any money on politics. The group, whose full name in its application was CVFC 501(c)(4), listed an address shared with a political organization called Combat Veterans for Congress PAC. CVFC told the I.R.S. that it planned to e-mail veterans about ways in which they “may engage in government” and provide “social welfare programs to assist combat veterans to get involved in government.”

But later in 2010, as it awaited an I.R.S. ruling, the organization spent close to $8,000 on radio ads backing Michael Crimmins, a Republican and a former Marine, for a House seat in San Diego, according to Federal Election Commission records.

The spending is not detailed in the group’s tax return for 2010, raising questions about whether it properly accounted for the expense to the I.R.S. The group also checked off a box marked “No” when asked if it had engaged in direct or indirect political activities on behalf of a candidate for political office.

The group received two rounds of questions from the I.R.S. in 2012, according to its lawyer, Dan Backer. They included queries about the group’s donors and its exact relationship with Combat Veterans for Congress PAC. The agency also asked about CVFC’s activities, but the group neglected to bring up its radio ads in its follow-up responses. ...

Some groups appeared to be confused or misinformed about the I.R.S. rules applying to their activity.

Tom Zawistowski, president of the Ohio Liberty Coalition, another Tea Party group that has complained about the scrutiny it received from the I.R.S., sent out regular e-mails to members about Romney campaign events and organized protests around the state to “demand the truth about Benghazi” when Mr. Obama visited before the 2012 election. The coalition also canvassed neighborhoods, handing out Romney campaign “door hangers,” Mr. Zawistowski said.

The I.R.S. usually considers such activities to be partisan. But when Mr. Zawistowski consulted his group’s lawyers, he said, he came away understanding that the I.R.S. was most concerned with radio or television advertising. He said he believed that other activities, like distributing literature for the Romney campaign, would not raise concerns.

“It’s not political activity,” he said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/u...s-chafing-at-irs-tested-political-limits.html


The republicans know this and its why they're ridding this. No IRS reform is actually going to come true and if anyone tries to change this they'll point to them and say they're trying to "bully conservative voices"

Its sad because electoral reform really would fix sooooo much in this country.
 
Emergency room workers spend a lot of time when things get busy.

From the article: "A new study (flagged by Michael Ramlet of The Morning Consult) finds that for every hour emergency department workers use a computer, they spend an average of 12 minutes on Facebook — and that time on the site actually goes up as the department becomes busier."

That could be explainable by virtue of the fact that when the ER gets busy people leave their computers with facebook running. (There was an attempt to control for that, but I'm not sure how effective it was.) Also that there might in fact be more staff relative to the work load at night when it is busiest, meaning individual night workers actually have more free time than individuals working the less busy days. Or some combination. Either way, I can't say it bothers me.
 
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/05/27/2063861/ohio-school-district-may-add-glenn-beck-conspiracy-theories-to-curriculum/

How is it that we're the only nation in the world who would even ENTERTAIN the idea of actually doing something like this?
 
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.

We'll see. Seems like every week one of our patients comes in upset, telling us they lost coverage due to being moved to part time work. Anecdotal obviously, but happening everywhere; I really don't like that part of the law.

Employers have been cutting back employees' hours and access to health insurance since before President Obama's healthcare law passed, according to new research released Wednesday.

The findings are potentially significant as the healthcare law is about to take full effect. The law's critics say employers will cut workers' hours to avoid offering healthcare benefits.
But the trend toward part-time work predates the Affordable Care Act, according to the Employee Benefits Research Institute (EBRI).

EBRI said Wednesday that the share of workers who work part-time has risen steadily — from 16.7 percent in 2007 to 22.2 percent in 2011.

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatc...alth-coverage-predate-obamacare#ixzz2UX5Lc1EL

The cutting back of hours is not necessarily a problem of obamacare but rather our economy which started before he was elected.

edit: Also

original.jpg


Seems roughly at 10%. Chances are less when push coves to shove.
 

pigeon

Banned
Enough people are being moved to part time work "due" to Obamacare for it to work. CNN just released a poll with 54% in opposition to the law.

We'll see. Seems like every week one of our patients comes in upset, telling us they lost coverage due to being moved to part time work. Anecdotal obviously, but happening everywhere; I really don't like that part of the law.

In 2014 they'll be getting money from the government to pay for health care plans they can buy directly off exchanges. You really can't judge anything now. Not to mention, of course, that as always the problem here isn't about health care specifically so much as it is about employers attempting to cut compensation during a recession without having to directly cut nominal wages. If the economy starts really improving this tendency will disappear.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/05/27/2063861/ohio-school-district-may-add-glenn-beck-conspiracy-theories-to-curriculum/

How is it that we're the only nation in the world who would even ENTERTAIN the idea of actually doing something like this?

Because a huge number of people in the country apparently, and sincerely, believe that there's no difference between everyone having an opinion and everyone having their own facts.

And/or not enough people possessing basic education with relation to critical thinking. For instance, a shocking number of people don't seem to have any concept of false equivalency - they think all claims inherently have equal weight regardless of context.
 

Wilsongt

Member
So damn tired of healthcare and medicine. My pay checks get cut by $70 a month in the summer time. That's $210 over the entire summer. That can pay for a whole bunch of medicine I need, and then some bills.

When an asthma inhaler cost $40, and a month's worth of pills cost $30, something is wrong...
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs

$500 deductible? Man, my family's got a $5,000. That said I think there's a very telling quote in there.

“My husband didn’t choose to be born this way,” Ms. Bruce said.

This should be the rallying cry for single payer, there are thousands of people with conditions that are genetic or just sort of happen and they've done nothing to bring them on. That stuff should be covered automatically, why should people have to worry about paying to manage a condition that they had no part in getting. It's just not right, the whole thing is screwed up.
 

Wilsongt

Member
$500 deductible? Man, my family's got a $5,000. That said I think there's a very telling quote in there.



This should be the rallying cry for single payer, there are thousands of people with conditions that are genetic or just sort of happen and they've done nothing to bring them on. That stuff should be covered automatically, why should people have to worry about paying to manage a condition that they had no part in getting. It's just not right, the whole thing is screwed up.

Yep. I didn't ask to be born with eczema and asthma, and some of the medicine to control it is not cheap. Even with my shitty insurance, it's somewhat cheaper. Without insurance it is terrible. Not to mention having to pay specialist appointment costs...
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Think Progress made a good point today. With all the red states rejecting the medicaid expansion, they'll actually wind up paying all the new taxes in Obamacare while not receiving many of the benefits.
 
I was saying from the beginning that Obama and Democrats shouldn't have gone on defense regarding the IRS. There was a perfectly good case to be made that the agency actually did nothing wrong.

I'm really hoping Lerner pulls through. Good on her for already refusing one request for her resignation. She needs to play hardball with those idiots.
 
I was saying from the beginning that Obama and Democrats shouldn't have gone on defense regarding the IRS. There was a perfectly good case to be made that the agency actually did nothing wrong.

I'm really hoping Lerner pulls through. Good on her for already refusing one request for her resignation. She needs to play hardball with those idiots.

What do you expect? It's the Obamacave-in administration. They try to thwart fires before they start but somehow the fires get ignited and they spread like wildfire anyway. Susan Rice, Elizabeth Warren, and other nominees, disowning IRS, firing of other federal employees at the slightest cranky noise from the GOP and other grand appeasement tactics during negotiations.

Even though we are owning Obamacare today, do not forget that it was Heritage Foundation's brainchild and Mitt Romney's plan.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Emergency room workers spend a lot of time when things get busy.



Important part: "The research team analyzed anonymous network utilization records for 68 workstations located in the emergency medicine department within one academic medical center for 15 consecutive days (12/29/2009 to 1/12/2010). This data was compared to ED work index (EDWIN) data derived by the hospital information systems."

Which facility was this? Maybe they need to institute some better policy.
 

Wilsongt

Member
What do you expect? It's the Obamacave-in administration. They try to thwart fires before they start but somehow the fires get ignited and they spread like wildfire anyway. Susan Rice, Elizabeth Warren, and other nominees, disowning IRS, firing of other federal employees at the slightest cranky noise from the GOP and other grand appeasement tactics during negotiations.

Even though we are owning Obamacare today, do not forget that it was Heritage Foundation's brainchild and Mitt Romney's plan.

Should rename it Robomneycare.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
Important part: "The research team analyzed anonymous network utilization records for 68 workstations located in the emergency medicine department within one academic medical center for 15 consecutive days (12/29/2009 to 1/12/2010). This data was compared to ED work index (EDWIN) data derived by the hospital information systems."

Which facility was this? Maybe they need to institute some better policy.
The study was done by the University of Florida, so logic would tell you it was Shands, their on-campus hospital.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I was saying from the beginning that Obama and Democrats shouldn't have gone on defense regarding the IRS. There was a perfectly good case to be made that the agency actually did nothing wrong.

I'm really hoping Lerner pulls through. Good on her for already refusing one request for her resignation. She needs to play hardball with those idiots.

Same here. Obama should have just said "We'll look into the matter and see if any wrongdoing occurred and punish those responsible accordingly" and never have spoken of it again.

By being just as shocked and outraged at what happened, Obama and the Dems gave this whole farce an air of credibility among the mainstream media. Hell, even MSNBC went into full-on chicken little mode for the whole week it was introduced.

Once again, Democrats just don't know how to play the goddamned game.

edit:

tumblr_inline_mlv73hP4y21qz4rgp.jpg
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
What I hate is that everyone treats Obamacare as a singular bill that you have to completely like or completely hate. Obamacare is made up of tons of different policies that don't actually have much to do with each other apart from the overall theme of health care reform.

Given how huge the ACA is, you got to admit there's going to be some problems in it, but why can't we just focus on those problems? It's clear that most people like certain parts of it like pre-existing conditions getting covered and insurance company revenue spending being regulated to ensure the money is actually going to healthcare, so why is our only option to fix Obamacare to repeal the whole damn thing? Can't they just try to make things more lenient for businesses covering their employees if that's their main gruff, or try to get rid of the individual mandate, or find different ways to fund it if certain taxes go to far.

Have we forgotten that bills signed into law aren't an all or nothing affair, and you can still make minor or major adjustments to it after it goes into law without having to repeal the entire thing?
 
What I hate is that everyone treats Obamacare as a singular bill that you have to completely like or completely hate. Obamacare is made up of tons of different policies that don't actually have much to do with each other apart from the overall theme of health care reform.

Given how huge the ACA is, you got to admit there's going to be some problems in it, but why can't we just focus on those problems? It's clear that most people like certain parts of it like pre-existing conditions getting covered and insurance company revenue spending being regulated to ensure the money is actually going to healthcare, so why is our only option to fix Obamacare to repeal the whole damn thing? Can't they just try to make things more lenient for businesses covering their employees if that's their main gruff, or try to get rid of the individual mandate, or find different ways to fund it if certain taxes go to far.

Have we forgotten that bills signed into law aren't an all or nothing affair, and you can still make minor or major adjustments to it after it goes into law without having to repeal the entire thing?
The reason the GOP never put out their own alternative for their "repeal and replace" program is because they don't want to admit a healthcare reform effort spearheaded by Romney or other power brokers would look almost the exact same as Obamacare, except minus the new taxes and the mandate, probably. It's a very business-friendly approach as far as healthcare reform goes, but the industry is still complaining about it because they're entitled greedy bastards.
 
Is Obama's second term legacy going to be the massive failure of the Syrian policy?

It's like he's trying to rival Bush in botched Middle East policy.
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Same here. Obama should have just said "We'll look into the matter and see if any wrongdoing occurred and punish those responsible accordingly" and never have spoken of it again.

I'm not sure I've understood why anybody should be so outraged about what happened. I know the there was a breakdown in procedure, but in practical terms it doesn't seem like there was any negative outcome for any entity that came under the "extra" scrutiny.

I guess I just don't fundamentally understand why there are claims of bias and impropriety when all that actually happened was entities which adopted politically charged names were flagged for a closer look to check for political activity.

Considering how the Right has been eager to jump on the police, FBI, CIA, State department etc for failures when "all the information was there to put the pieces or avoid situation X entirely", it seems yet another (hypocritical) mixed message. That itself is not surprising, but the lack of anybody pointing that out publically continues to amaze.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I'm not sure I've understood why anybody should be so outraged about what happened. I know the there was a breakdown in procedure, but in practical terms it doesn't seem like there was any negative outcome for any entity that came under the "extra" scrutiny.

I guess I just don't fundamentally understand why there are claims of bias and impropriety when all that actually happened was entities which adopted politically charged names were flagged for a closer look to check for political activity.

Considering how the Right has been eager to jump on the police, FBI, CIA, State department etc for failures when "all the information was there to put the pieces or avoid situation X entirely", it seems yet another (hypocritical) mixed message. That itself is not surprising, but the lack of anybody pointing that out publically continues to amaze.

It's because profiling is wrong. I now link to the appropriate Daily Show segment to show the inherent irony in the fact the right got all pissy about said profiling.

Behold "The Only Unfair Thing Ever"
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
It's because profiling is wrong.

Given the nature of what the IRS does, profiling not only doesn't seem inappropriate to me, but desirable so as to create greater efficiencies.

Without profiling (targeting) a lot of companies would struggle to stay in business due to the loss of efficiency (not that that I'm saying the IRS should be "making money", just minimizing costs).
 
In 2014 they'll be getting money from the government to pay for health care plans they can buy directly off exchanges. You really can't judge anything now. Not to mention, of course, that as always the problem here isn't about health care specifically so much as it is about employers attempting to cut compensation during a recession without having to directly cut nominal wages. If the economy starts really improving this tendency will disappear.
That's quite an if, unfortunately. We seem stuck with tepid growth thanks to congress.

You're right that people will get subsidies next year, but they're still looking at being without insurance for months until that point. I blame greedy employers more than I blame ACA, but I still wish that portion of the law could be patched somehow (without congressional action).

Here in Michigan the congress has submitted the 2014 budget sans any expansion plan, so barring a last minute miracle a lot of poor people will remain fucked; Snyder wants to expand Medicaid but we're dealing with one of the most extreme legislatures in the Midwest. It seems like an Arkansas type plan would appeal to republicans here, given how much money it would make healthcare/hospital execs, but no dice so far. Same with Ohio. I think both states could have democrat governors soon.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
So damn tired of healthcare and medicine. My pay checks get cut by $70 a month in the summer time. That's $210 over the entire summer. That can pay for a whole bunch of medicine I need, and then some bills.

When an asthma inhaler cost $40, and a month's worth of pills cost $30, something is wrong...
I once paid over 400 dollars for two inhalers when I had to buy them with no insurance. I know it's hard to see the bright side, and paying premiums sucks, but it is better than the alternative.
 
I once paid over 400 dollars for two inhalers when I had to buy them with no insurance. I know it's hard to see the bright side, and paying premiums sucks, but it is better than the alternative.
Some medication is cheaper without prescription coverage. At least in Cali. I recently learned this when I took my grandmother off her supplemental and shopped around to see how much no insurance would cost. Granted these are almost all generics but the price dropped from $25 for 2 months to like $4 for 3.

Great system we have.

On the flip side with a $800 a month supplemental she still paid about $3 a day for a certain medication til we stopped it.

America fuck yeah.
 
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