It's like they refuse to address the elephant in the room of, "what about the presidents before or, hell, during the great depression?"
Anyone saying Obama is worse than Hoover is an idiot.
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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Anyone saying Obama is worse than Hoover is an idiot.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Worst president economically yet still has created more jobs than Bush already? Oh boy
Black Mamba
Member
The funniest part to me is he keeps saying "it's the worst recovery since the Great Depession" without acknowledging it's also the worst recession since the Great Depression.
related, much?
Catching up on some political stories right now. here's another fun one:
LAWL
youth smarter than given credit.
Peter Ferrara is an idiot. I've written about him quite a few times. He's on Thom Hartmann's show quite frequently (I don't know why since he insults Thom almost every time he's on), and is one of the most petulant, immature right wingers I've seen in media (which is saying something). He gets called out all the time and still repeats the same shit every time he comes back.
Avon Barksdale
Member
The only way that the GOP will win over younger voters is to basically shift to the left of the Democrats on just about every social issue.
Avon Barksdale
Member
It also seems that the GOP has given up on reaching out to Black voters.
el retorno
Member
Yeah in 1972
Hey, Rand Paul tried. Not his fault if they're too racist to let him teach them about Abraham Lincoln.
Not really. I think it's the Republicans hammering issues that the youth mainly doesn't give two shits about. It's not that young people are generally pro-gay marriage. They just don't care. They don't care about abortion. They don't care about immigration. These issues end up as noise, while the GOP consistently screws issues that would encourage youth vote, like the college loan rates.
Personally, I think the GOP will continue to suckle at the teat of big business until that dries up, and any outreach will be very slapdash at best. I expect them to do worse than projected in 2014, and lose the presidency in 2016. Something, or more likely someone, will change the whole party around, and they'll be a different beast come 2020. Since the US is determined to keep a two party system, and even more won't let a new party replace either of the old ones.
Yeah, nothing appeal to the youth like the Margaret Thatcher look.
And for real GOP, no one ever won anything with Alex Smith.
The Librarian
Banned
Where are you visiting?
The Librarian
Banned
Lautenburg is dead. Shit.
RIP.
It will be interesting to see hoe Christie plays this given how he's on thin ice already with the GOP.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Shit like this really bothers me because it all fails to recognize the obvious: The entire world is still recovering. If every other nation had recovered and we were still in bad shape then maybe they'd have an argument, but we're actually doing better than a lot of places, so the argument is utterly moot.
Drives me up the wall that people don't recognize this.
cooljeanius
Member
Listening to the debate over different student loan rate plans on the Diane Rehm show on NPR now... any opinions on the Republican plan vs. Obama's plan? The guests are saying that they aren't actually that different, except that the Republican plan has an interest rate cap, but the Obama plan doesn't... (and a few of the numbers are different, too)
NYCmetsfan
Banned
isn't booker gonna win in 2014?
Republicans want higher rates
Sirpopopop
Member
No assurance of a Booker win in 2014. It's very likely, but if Tom Kean Sr. is the guy who gets the seat, it's going to be a dog fight, and I would put Booker as the dog.
el retorno
Member
I figure New Jerseyians want to support Obama's agenda and if Booker runs on that he has a good shot.
What is the Kean's guys record? Is he a scott brown type where they put themselves out as moderate but vote like every other republican?
Who ever he puts up is gonna have to be on the record for votes (immigration reform for one) that will be used against them.
Is there no discussion on the Supreme Court decision today regarding DNA swabs?
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...m-arrestees/ydXPxGEPtmmYwo2B2n0wrK/story.html
Also, i was somewhat surprised by the alignment.
I think this is a good thing from a criminal justice point of view, but it has healthcare/privacy implications down the road and there don't seem to be any discussions of the safeguards put into place for this database.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...m-arrestees/ydXPxGEPtmmYwo2B2n0wrK/story.html
Also, i was somewhat surprised by the alignment.
I think this is a good thing from a criminal justice point of view, but it has healthcare/privacy implications down the road and there don't seem to be any discussions of the safeguards put into place for this database.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Seems reasonable to me.
Hoover raised the top income tax rate to 63%. Take that Obama you neoliberal scum!
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
So SCOTUS upheld by 5-4 police being able to take DNA samples without having to get a warrant. Scalia, Kagan, Sotormayor, and Ginsburg were the descent.
el retorno
Member
I don't think its bad for quick checks to identify a person and check if they're wanted for something else but they shouldn't be kept like fingerprints in a database for any length of time without warrants and judicial oversight.. Its sad its easier to keep DNA than background checks for guns on files probably.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Same as fingerprints to me.
Now, something might be done about the arrests that enable this is the first place.
Now, something might be done about the arrests that enable this is the first place.
JoeyJo-JoJuniorShabadoo
Banned
A bit of an unfair comparison. Bush inherited an economy that suffered a mild recession, and was very close to full employment. Obama inherited an economy that required massive job creation.
Still, Obama shouldn't be credited too much. The Republicans are absolutely deserving of the title of economic terrorists; who have stolen food from the mouths of every single person who could be just a little bit better off if the US government merely did what it is supposed to do.
I'm shocked the Democrats can't message that short-run deficits in a recession are "good", that when the market gives government a sub-2% interest rate the market itself is demanding intervention. So I wouldn't give Obama a lot of plaudits, but there is literally no one who has advanced a comprehensive policy that approaches even a 1930s level understanding of economics.
el retorno
Member
Republicans have made this impossible. Nobody will say deficits are good.
I remember in Bushs second term that deficits were good (remember Bush literally mailing people checks and saying go buy stuff?) in recessions were good and helped fill a gap. once obama became president they became the work of satan and were going to doom the US.
I'm always skeptical of any expansion of police power in an environment of institutionalized racism. This database is going to contain like 90% of all black American male DNA and maybe 5% of white males. What do you think that will do to accidental matches or false positives? Not to mention plants.
Criminally, not very different. But DNA holds a lot more information about a person than a fingerprint does, and as time passes it can be exploited for healthcare and other things.
I am Michael Bolton
Banned
Do finger prints illustrate your genetic makeup, liklihood to develop a certain disease, etc? Call me a tinfoil card carrying conspiracy nut but I am much more uncomfortable with ones genetic makeup being used against them in unintended ways than fingerprints.
Life insurance too. Though with the ACA, being able to use ones DNA against them for health plans, premiums, etc. becomes null and void.
Yeah I am kind of iffy on the DNA (and fingerprint, tbh) collection in and of itself, but it's made worse with the obvious bias in arrests to begin with.
So it boils down to the slippery slope fallacy again? :/
If your DNA is used for something like genetic research or cloning or whatever without your consent, then we'll have that argument when we get there.
But this is just talking about tracking identifying information about an arrestee. I see nothing inherently illegal about that.
JoeyJo-JoJuniorShabadoo
Banned
I can understand it's difficult, it certainly is. However, Democrats taking the GOP as winning every messaging war as fact without really even trying to reframe the debate is a victim mentality.
The opportunity cost of austerity, in this situation, exceeds the cost of additional interest on larger short-run deficits. You will end up being more in debt in the long-run cutting spending today, than you would be running up deficits. This is fact.
If you've got all the facts and you still can't make it work, better look at the messenger.
cooljeanius
Member
Besides Maryland v. King (the DNA case), the Supreme Court also handed down an easier, 9-0 decision today in Hillman v. Maretta: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/11-1221_7l48.pdf
Bad news for Cory Booker:
Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) died last night at 89 in his bed.
Solemn backpats to TPM.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/sen-frank-lautenberg-dead-at-89
edit: A slightly more interesting link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ublic-health-in-america/?wprss=rss_ezra-klein
Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) died last night at 89 in his bed.
Solemn backpats to TPM.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/sen-frank-lautenberg-dead-at-89
edit: A slightly more interesting link. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ublic-health-in-america/?wprss=rss_ezra-klein
PhoenixDark
Banned
Actually the GOP did impressive outreach work throughout W Bush's first term. Bush spoke with black church leaders, and the RNC also went to urban areas to sell conservatism. It payed dividends in 2004: Kerry won a huge amount of the black vote, but Bush won just enough to win Ohio and thus the presidency. Kerry would have won if he had performed closer to Obama's 2012 black vote performance in that state.
Obama has secured the black vote to the democrat party though, so it's too late. A large part of that is due to how ugly the GOP has been towards him, and the constant dog whistles they utilize. IMO things will get super ugly towards Hispanics as the immigration bill moves closer to reality (in the senate; it's probably DOA in the house).
I think I'm correct in that the R's plan has no locked in rates so you loan interest changes every year, but is capped to 8.5%. Obama's lock in the rate but makes no mention of a cap.
el retorno
Member
then audited the NAACP
I also thought one changes current loans as well whereas the other leaves them alone. So if you are currently locked in at a nice low rate you can get screwed.
More like backpats to Dax.
Shit. RIP
The Librarian
Banned
Cohn wrote a pretty angry piece in which he went off on Avik Roy. Bonus Twitter fight.
Avon Barksdale
Member
Bush only received 11% of the Black vote in 2004.
el retorno
Member
That twitter fight makes me angry because its shows how the US debate is completely missing the mark. The entire debate is shaped around how wealthy people (who can afford these things) will be affected rather than the people that will be helped and still need to be helped.
The problem isn't premiums but the health costs in general.
Cohn did a good job with his piece. Looks like it's turned into a three-way twitter fight.
This. 100x this.
el retorno
Member
One thing I find is that conservatives are really good at finding a small flaw or technicality and making that the issue (and liberals usually jump right in rightly or wrongly). And ignoring the larger issue which they'd most certainly lose at.
The Librarian
Banned
I failed.
Backpats to everybody but me.
Ladies first!
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