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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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A

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
APKmetsfan said:
http://gawker.com/abc-nyt-repeatedly-lied-about-cia-operative-robert-lev-1482879951

This is disturbing. Re: the Iran/CIA hostage story (Read this if you haven't, amazing read and story)

We have news agencies that not only conceal things at request of the government (sometimes acceptable) but to actively lie without caveats?
Click to expand...


To be fair, they say that the CIA wanted a chance to work it out diplomatically and that publishing the story back then could result in that contractor being hurt. Kind of odd to release the story now as Iranian-American relations are improving and this confirms that America was lying about that contractor all this time.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Yup it's coming. And unlike most big candidates in the past, both parties have an incentive to take him down. No democrat wants to face him in a general election, and conservative republicans hate him. I expect quite a few leaks, and Drudge will gleefully run with them all.

I don't know whether he did anything wrong with this bridge thing, but it's an ugly "he said, he said" story that will be referenced in the future to question his temperament if he blows up during a debate. You can just tell Rand Paul is going to piss him off during a debate, and a conservative crowd in Iowa or NH won't be as receptive to the back hand insults NJ media/crowds laugh at. Christie has behaved well in past debates, but consider his opponents: a criminal governor everyone knew was fucked, and a boring candidate everyone knew was fucked. How will he deal with blatant trolls from Cruz or Paul's passive aggressive libertarian bullshit.

The thing that killed Perry's campaign wasn't him forgetting which government agencies he wanted to end, it was him calling those opposed to basic immigrant protections/benefits "heartless." He disrespected the majority of the conservative base. I think Christie is going to easily fall into that trap at a debate, on immigration or Obamacare (specifically the Medicaid expansion).
Click to expand...

Sounds to me the Presidency, outside of a MAJOR fuck up, seems safely in Democrats' hand.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Al-ibn Kermit said:
To be fair, they say that the CIA wanted a chance to work it out diplomatically and that publishing the story back then could result in that contractor being hurt. Kind of odd to release the story now as Iranian-American relations are improving and this confirms that America was lying about that contractor all this time.
Click to expand...
Withholding the info makes sense (though 7 years?) but actively spreading information they know wasn't true? That's the issue to me. Could have added caveats to the story that the "US claims."
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Why wont the mayor of Ft Lee step forward and say Christie is a lying windbag that holds personal grudges? A Sunday evening 60 minutes type interview is just what's needed to bury Christie's national career. Can't wait for Rand Paul to bring it up in debates.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
It's Forbes, but whatever.

Of all of the last-minute delays, website bungles, and Presidential whims that have marred the roll-out of Obamacare’s subsidized insurance exchanges, what happened on Thursday, December 12 will stand as one of the most lawless acts yet committed by this administration. The White House—having canceled Americans’ old health plans, and having botched the system for enrolling people in new ones—knows that millions of Americans will enter the new year without health coverage. So instead of actually fixing the problem, the administration is retroactively attempting to force insurers to hand out free health care—at a loss—to those whom the White House has rendered uninsured. If Obamacare wasn’t a government takeover of the health insurance industry, then what is it now?
Click to expand...

I fail to see why this is a problem. Insurance companies have prayed on people for ages. It's time they suffer from loses.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Wilsongt said:
It's Forbes, but whatever.



I fail to see why this is a problem. Insurance companies have prayed on people for ages. It's time they suffer from loses.
Click to expand...

It's Forbes, they only care about rich people. They had a profile about the "real savior of GM" written by the guy the profile was supposed to be about. It was their goddamn cover story! He wrote an article fellating himself! And they published it as their cover story! The magazine has next to no journalistic integrity and should be ignored.
 
G

Giant Panda

Member
Wilsongt said:
It's Forbes, but whatever.



I fail to see why this is a problem. Insurance companies have prayed on people for ages. It's time they suffer from loses.
Click to expand...

It's not a good idea to make policy based on spite. There is clearly a problem with the move, but I'm not sure what else could be done to "actually fix the problem".
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
RustyNails said:
Why wont the mayor of Ft Lee step forward and say Christie is a lying windbag that holds personal grudges? A Sunday evening 60 minutes type interview is just what's needed to bury Christie's national career. Can't wait for Rand Paul to bring it up in debates.
Click to expand...

Why do that now when you can do it two years?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Wilsongt said:
It's Forbes, but whatever.



I fail to see why this is a problem. Insurance companies have prayed on people for ages. It's time they suffer from loses.
Click to expand...

Is that actually true, though? Sounds like chain e-mail fodder.
 
A

Armoured Priest

Member
APKmetsfan said:
I enjoyed all the free time. And I never ever had a bad finals period, I always had a good memory for testing. I'm weird I guess.

But yeah probably.
Click to expand...

You're not alone, I miss university as well, and finals were never that bad. Part of it stems from being pretty good at test taking...coupled with being a music major. For those that don't know, a lot of the chaos as a music major happens a couple weeks before finals with performances and juries (the equivalent of finals for instrumental instruction are, at some universities, are called this).

At the time I was a little burned out. Was just wanting to be done, but as they say, you don't appreciate what you had until you no longer have it.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
APKmetsfan said:
http://gawker.com/abc-nyt-repeatedly-lied-about-cia-operative-robert-lev-1482879951

This is disturbing. Re: the Iran/CIA hostage story (Read this if you haven't, amazing read and story)

We have news agencies that not only conceal things at request of the government (sometimes acceptable) but to actively lie without caveats?
Click to expand...
You know me, I'm all for transparency, but if the CIA come to you and say, hey, you publish that and the guy is dead, well, I can't really blame them for playing along.
That being said, it does seem that the CIA abused that privilege here, as I understand the story, they were mostly covering their asses as the Iranian knew pretty damn well he's a CIA agent.
 
D

Diablos

Member
So, Van Hollen is threatening to stop supporting the farm bill if the GOP doesn't extend unemployment benefits.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...gy-to-pressure-gop-on-unemployment-insurance/
I wonder if Pelosi will get behind this?

Now that Congress is set to leave town even as unemployment benefits for 1.3 million Americans are set to expire just after Christmas, is there any chance that Democrats can still prevail on Republicans to agree to extend them?

Dems who are pushing for an extension have hatched a new plan to do just that: Once Congress returns, they will refuse to support the reauthorization of the farm bill — which will almost certainly need Dem support to pass the House — unless Republicans agree to restart unemployment benefits with the farm bill’s savings.

“Under no circumstances should we support the farm bill unless Republicans agree to use the savings from it to extend unemployment insurance,” Dem Rep. Chris Van Hollen, a top party strategist, told me today. “This is a potential pressure point. We’re going to have to resolve differences in the farm bill because otherwise milk prices will spike. If past is prologue, they are going to need a good chunk of Democrats to pass the farm bill.”

Van Hollen said that he would organize among Democrats to get them to make this stand, and said he’d encourage the House Dem leadership to do the same.

“I will encourage my colleagues to take that position,” he said. “I’m confident that the House Democratic leadership will look for every opportunity to extend unemployment insurance, helping struggling families and the economy. The farm bill reauthorization may be the first such opportunity.” (Nancy Pelosi has already vowed to keep pushing, so she may favor this approach.)

Van Hollen said this idea could serve as a rallying point for outside progressive and labor groups, who can now insist that Dem leaders in both chambers adopt this stance. “I would encourage outside groups to make this point,” he said.

Now, some might recall that Democrats failed to make extension of unemployment insurance contingent on their support for the Ryan-Murray budget deal. But easing the sequester to help the recovery was a major Dem priority, and Dems might be more willing to use the farm bill’s fate as leverage to draw a hard line.

Van Hollen said that a “minimum of $15 billion in savings” was expected from the farm bill, much of it “from the elimination of direct subsidies,” and said it would be unconscionable not to use this money for some form of an extension of unemployment benefits (rather than deficit reduction), which would not only help 1.3 million people, but the economy, too.

“The priority should be to help those struggling familes, not only because it helps them, but
because it also helps local economies throughout the country,” he said, adding that Dems should evaluate the farm bill on its own merits, and make this stand on unemployment if they are inclined to support it.

Sure, it looks like getting Republicans to agree to an extension is an extreme long shot at this point. But Dems and liberals don’t need to give up. GOP leaders have already said they’d consider an extension if Dems offer a plan to pay for it, and the leadership’s opposition to the extension doesn’t appear to be visceral. Yes, conservative groups would scream at any extension, but now that John Boehner has told them to take a hike, he should theoretically care little about their opposition to continuing UI, right?

Okay, maybe that’s absurdly optimistic. But still, this plan offers the promise of going at this again with more leverage. And it gives liberal groups and labor a way to continue rallying for the extension — they can demand Dem leaders draw a hard line — even as Members of the House return to their districts, where local press may be devoting more human interest coverage to the plight of those losing insurance over the holidays.
Click to expand...
I don't know if that will go over so well... but Harry Reid is also planning to raise UE extension after the New Year should the GOP ditch it this year, and make it retroactive for those who would get screwed (should it pass in such a scenario).

You don't nuke emergency UE benefits with it still this high. Pretty unprecedented if the GOP allows this to happen. God dammit.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
For all the Republicans complaining about high premiums and deductibles, does this mean we should start enacting price controls?
 
A

Aylinato

Member
Oblivion said:
For all the Republicans complaining about high premiums and deductibles, does this mean we should start enacting price controls?
Click to expand...

Lol no silly. We allow the companies to gouge our eyes out with spoons. All for the glory of Satan of course!

/end only legit reason republicans could have
 
Joe Molotov

Joe Molotov

Member
Al-ibn Kermit said:
To be fair, they say that the CIA wanted a chance to work it out diplomatically and that publishing the story back then could result in that contractor being hurt. Kind of odd to release the story now as Iranian-American relations are improving and this confirms that America was lying about that contractor all this time.
Click to expand...

The thinking was that by this point Iran almost certainly knows that he was a CIA asset, so there's nothing to be gained by keeping it hushed up.
 
C

Chumly

Member
Wilsongt said:
It's Forbes, but whatever.



I fail to see why this is a problem. Insurance companies have prayed on people for ages. It's time they suffer from loses.
Click to expand...

I saw this article earlier and it infuriated me on how misleading and wrong it was. Lets clear a few things up here. I actually work for an insurance company and know how some of this works.

1. First of all there its not making insurers cover anyone for free. Its allowing people extra time to pay their premiums. There are normally grace periods anyways to get your premiums in once you have insurance. I mean hell my company allows people paying automatically to pay on the 15th of the month for that month. So "technically" by this morons argument we give out free healthcare for 14 days and then make them pay. (We also have a standard one month grace period)

2. Insurers sure as hell ain't going to lose any money on this other than normal workplace salaries. If anyone has been involved in any sort of claims process your not going to be able to go to the hospital on January 1st and somehow get your claim paid on January 2nd. First it actually has to be submitted and then it will sit around at the insurance company. Absolute WORST CASE SCENARIO someone will have a claim submitted to an insurance company and since they didn't pay their premiums the claim doesn't get paid. Then the entire responsibility falls on the person that didn't pay their premiums. Insurers don't lose shit other than someone in claims department denying a claim.


Literally the entire article is rambling nonsense.
 
A

Aylinato

Member
Chichikov said:
It definitely wouldn't be the first time that the CIA would claim national security in order to avoid embarrassment.
Click to expand...


Or maybe they leaked the info intentionally to try to sabotage the diplomatic talks because they need a boogie man to be able to tell congress "that's the enemy we need moar lasers"
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Aylinato said:
Or maybe they leaked the info intentionally to try to sabotage the diplomatic talks because they need a boogie man to be able to tell congress "that's the enemy we need moar lasers"
Click to expand...
That's nonsense.

If anything it shows the CIA had (has?) a pretty shoddy grasp on Iran. It just shows this system just needs reform. I'm not anti spying or anything like that. We need the CIA but they seem to just be a mess and out of control which is harming not helping their mission.

There needs to be an outside agency or review board that isn't from within the IC that can check up on them
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
I can't wait for Democrats to win the House back, because you know they'll finally pass their stupid "grand bargain" and it'll pass entirely on the backs of Democratic votes.
 
K

KingK

Member
Aaron Strife said:
I can't wait for Democrats to win the House back, because you know they'll finally pass their stupid "grand bargain" and it'll pass entirely on the backs of Democratic votes.
Click to expand...

If they win the House back I would hope they learned their lesson the past 5 years and don't even attempt to bargain with the GOP when at all possible. Pass everything on their terms. Although I'm sure what would actually happen is a long period of negotiating with brave "moderates" on a budget deal that gets dragged to the right for the sake of the magical, economy fixing powers of the Holy Bipartisanship, only to pass purely on Democratic votes anyway.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
I can't wait for Democrats to win the House back, because you know they'll finally pass their stupid "grand bargain" and it'll pass entirely on the backs of Democratic votes.
Click to expand...

Fuck the grand bargain. Reid and Pelosi should say "No. Fuck you and your party." when McConnell and Boehner try to enter "negotiations."

I want 2015-January 20th, 2017 to be a HUGE FUCK YOU to every single GOP member and their caucus members.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
I can't wait for Democrats to win the House back, because you know they'll finally pass their stupid "grand bargain" and it'll pass entirely on the backs of Democratic votes.
Click to expand...

They won't win the house anytime soon. And when they do I doubt there will be enough votes for any type of grand bargain regardless of who controls the senate without 60 votes.

If republicans were smart they would have taken Obama's entitlement cave years ago. From a republican perspective, raising taxes slightly in exchange for raising the Medicare eligibility age should have been a no brainer.
 
A

Aylinato

Member
APKmetsfan said:
That's nonsense.

If anything it shows the CIA had (has?) a pretty shoddy grasp on Iran. It just shows this system just needs reform. I'm not anti spying or anything like that. We need the CIA but they seem to just be a mess and out of control which is harming not helping their mission.

There needs to be an outside agency or review board that isn't from within the IC that can check up on them
Click to expand...



I never said CIA had control over anything. I said they just use certain countries to say "we need more monies for lasers and spies" so if Iran is on good terms diplomatically they cannot use Iran as leverage to get congressmen to give the CIA more monies/power to dick around.


Diplomacy=bad news bear for the CIA
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Damn, this Pope guy will just not back down on his America hating:

The most striking part of the Exhortation was where it refers to an economy that “kills”…

“There is nothing in the Exhortation that cannot be found in the social Doctrine of the Church. I wasn’t speaking from a technical point of view, what I was trying to do was to give a picture of what is going on. The only specific quote I used was the one regarding the “trickle-down theories” which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and social inclusiveness in the world. The promise was that when the glass was full, it would overflow, benefitting the poor. But what happens instead, is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger nothing ever comes out for the poor. This was the only reference to a specific theory. I was not, I repeat, speaking from a technical point of view but according to the Church’s social doctrine. This does not mean being a Marxist.”
Click to expand...

http://lastampa.it/2013/12/14/ester...tenderness-5BqUfVs9r7W1CJIMuHqNeI/pagina.html
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
speculawyer said:
The various protestant GOPers can brush it off . . . but Santorum, Paul Ryan, Newt and other Catholic GOPers sure look funny having to explain how the pope doesn't know what he's talking about and that Ayn Rand is a better Catholic than the pope.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but even if people like Rush aren't Catholic themselves, they'll look pretty bad attacking the Pope (hell, Rush himself sorta walked back his earlier comments).

People like Rick Santorum will probably just convert to Islam.
 
G

Giant Panda

Member
Oblivion said:
Yeah, but even if people like Rush aren't Catholic themselves, they'll look pretty bad attacking the Pope (hell, Rush himself sorta walked back his earlier comments).

People like Rick Santorum will probably just convert to Islam.
Click to expand...

Fundamentalist Islam does seem to fit Santorum's views pretty well, you may be onto something…
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Measley said:
Just curious; What can Republicans run on in 2016? If things continue going on the present track, Obama's record will be pretty damn hard to criticize.
Click to expand...

They'll be able to continue their simple strategic positioning of "I'm not Obama". This time round though, the Democratic candidate will (probably) have that claim too.
 
M

Measley

Junior Member
Mario said:
They'll be able to continue their simple strategic positioning of "I'm not Obama". This time round though, the Democratic candidate will (probably) have that claim too.
Click to expand...

If I were a Democratic nominee for president, I'd ride Obama's coattails right into the White House.

That is of course if there's no massive scandal, or some economic disaster that takes place between now and 2016.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Measley said:
If I were a Democratic nominee for president, I'd ride Obama's coattails right into the White House.

That is of course if there's no massive scandal, or some economic disaster that takes place between now and 2016.
Click to expand...

I was pointing to a literal claim the Democractic candidate could make while simultaneously making some sort of terrible joke around Barack and/or Michelle probably not running.

I expect the Democratic candidate will quite happily be able to point to the successes of Obama and suggest they will carry on a lot of the policies and even go further than some of them, while being able to distance themselves from stuff like privacy violations, whistleblower treatment, and drones.

Meanwhile, Republicans will... who even knows. I'm sure they even don't know right now. They have nothing.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Giant Panda said:
Fundamentalist Islam does seem to fit Santorum's views pretty well, you may be onto something…
Click to expand...

American_Taliban_Illustrated.jpg



Also, too:

Francis said many places in the world were seeing a "serious rise" in inequality between people living side by side.

He attacked the "widening gap between those who have more and those who must be content with the crumbs", calling on governments to implement "effective policies" to guarantee people's fundamental rights, including access to capital, services, educational resources, healthcare and technology.
Click to expand...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...BB0EH20131212?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

UH OH.

I've seen some right-wingers brush off the Pope's Kenyan Marxist talk by saying that it doesn't contradict conservative economic principles because they don't disagree with the idea of helping the poor (lol), they just don't want the government to force people to do so. But here he is saying in no certain terms that he wants the government to be all up in that.

How are they gonna defend this now?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Oblivion said:
American_Taliban_Illustrated.jpg



Also, too:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...BB0EH20131212?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

UH OH.

I've seen some right-wingers brush off the Pope's Kenyan Marxist talk by saying that it doesn't contradict conservative economic principles because they don't disagree with the idea of helping the poor (lol), they just don't want the government to force people to do so. But here he is saying in no certain terms that he wants the government to be all up in that.

How are they gonna defend this now?
Click to expand...

They'll ignore it and or slander the pope.
 
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