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[Oblivion]

They'll ignore it and or slander the pope.

Some Fox News guy called him the Catholic Church's Obama. lol

 

[NYCmetsfan]

60 minutes is so awful, what the hell happened.

The past few weeks they've produced a bogus bengahzi report, corporate propaganda regarding amazon and now they fawn over the NSA.

Should be embarrassing

 

[cartoon_soldier]

60 minutes is so awful, what the hell happened.

The past few weeks they've produced a bogus bengahzi report, corporate propaganda regarding amazon and now they fawn over the NSA.

Should be embarrassing

Conspiracy theory says they are going to the place where they can hold on to the 55+ viewers who are well the people who mostly watch news on TV these days.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Conspiracy theory says they are going to the place where they can hold on to the 55+ viewers who are well the people who mostly watch news on TV these days.

The fox news viewer?

 

[Sibylus]

60 minutes envious of CNN's namedroppability.

 

[Owzers]

The various protestant GOPers can brush it off . . . but Santorum, Paul Ryan, Newt and other Catholic GOPers sure look funny having to explain how the pope doesn't know what he's talking about and that Ayn Rand is a better Catholic than the pope.

At best they treat the Pope like they want to put him in a nursing home where he can't get visitors.

 

[Mario]

Also, too:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...BB0EH20131212?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

UH OH.

I've seen some right-wingers brush off the Pope's Kenyan Marxist talk by saying that it doesn't contradict conservative economic principles because they don't disagree with the idea of helping the poor (lol), they just don't want the government to force people to do so. But here he is saying in no certain terms that he wants the government to be all up in that.

How are they gonna defend this now?

I mentioned when the Pope made the initial comments related to this clarification that Catholic priest and Fox News contributor Jonathon Morris would find a way to spin it, and saw a couple of days after he had did address the comments in an interview with Don Imus here where he says the Pope "isn't a Marxist or a Socialist" and describes Capitalism as "the greatest system I know". There is also some word play hocus pocus around clarifying that you don't needing to be standing "with" the poor to be helping the poor from memory.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2923820223001/father-jonathan-morris-on-the-spirit-of-giving/

Not sure where he goes from here with this latest clarification.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nsa-speaks-out-on-snowden-spying/

60 minutes propaganda news report on the NSA. And video of the entire episode

BTW the corespondent? John Miller
Previous employer? Office of the Director of National Intelligence

Beginning in 2005, Miller served in the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, ending his tour as Deputy Director of the Analysis Division. John worked across the Intelligence Community with the CIA, NSA, FBI, and other agencies.

I'll admit I tend to give the benefit of doubt to the intelligence community. I still stand by them not being nefarious people and generally good, but when this kind of incestuous relationship forms and is so pervasive its hard to know who to trust.

This thread worthy?

Edit: Just realized we now have the government bragging that they're only collecting only metadata but 6 months ago they were claiming they weren't doing that.

 

[B-Dubs]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nsa-speaks-out-on-snowden-spying/

60 minutes propaganda news report on the NSA. And video of the entire episode

BTW the corespondent? John Miller
Previous employer? Office of the Director of National Intelligence



I'll admit I tend to give the benefit of doubt to the intelligence community. I still stand by them not being nefarious people, but when this kind of incestuous relationship forms and is so pervasive its hard to know who to trust.

This thread worthy?

Not really, from what I saw they were just trying to break the misconceptions people have about what they're doing. It was basically the NSA going "Hey we do bad shit, don't say we do worse shit for no reason"

 

[thepotatoman]

Not really, from what I saw they were just trying to break the misconceptions people have about what they're doing. It was basically the NSA going "Hey we do bad shit, don't say we do worse shit for no reason"

Which might mean something if their word wasn't worth so little anymore given them actually breaking the law by lieing to congress. And even then maybe them repeatedly saying they're not breaking the law would mean something if you don't have former NSA employees like John Schindler and William Binney and two Senators on the Intelligence Committee talking about how broad the interpretation of the law is for the NSA and how they'll find any loophole to collect as much data as they can.

So I guess all that stuff isn't relevant to the story and NSA deserves the benefit of the doubt, but Edward Snowden being a "20 something high school drop out" and maybe possibly having the chance to leak data to the foreign government is totally fair game despite no proof of that. They even spent a good portion of it framing it like Snowden was giving the ultimatum of "give me amnesty or your data is going to Russia" when I don't see where he said anything like that.

And while NSA does claim to not look at the email and internet data of American citizens, they do actually have and store that data according to the MUSCULAR leaks, which is able to be searched without court order and is the sort of slippery slope of less and less privacy that people are worried about.

Maybe the NSA aren't bad guys that are actively trying to commit evil, but that doesn't mean what they are doing is right, and it certainly doesn't mean the press should be giving them a free pass like this. After the Benghazi screw up and the Amazon PR stunt, I have to wonder what is going on with 60 Minutes lately.

 

[Diablos]

lol 60 minutes. I stopped paying attention after Andy Rooney died.

 

[Wilsongt]

SOme north Carolina news.

Godwin's law is being evoked this morning.


North Carolina State Sen.: Obamacare Worse Than 'Nazis,' 'Terrorists'

Bob Rucho @SenatorBobRucho
Follow

Justice Robert's pen & Obamacare has done more damage to the USA then the swords of the Nazis,Soviets & terrorists combined.
7:41 AM - 15 Dec 2013

Of course... he goes to "redefine" what he said.

Bob Rucho @SenatorBobRucho
Follow

Those that tweeted, put your thinking caps back on:"The PEN is mightier than the SWORD."Edward Bulwar-Lytton,1839. But surely you knew that.

ALso, bad news for Kay Hagan:

Sen. Hagan Tea Party Challenger Attended Secessionist Rally

North Carolina Senate candidate Greg Brannon (R) cosponsored and delivered a speech at an event sponsored by the secessionist League of the South.

According to a new Mother Jones report on Monday, Brannon, who is running in the GOP primary to defeat Sen. Kay Hagan (D-NC), spoke at rally which supported nullification (the argument that states are able to invalidate federal laws) in October.

Brannon, furthermore, has also repeatedly said that if elected he would model his tenure as a senator after former Sen. Jesse Helms (R), the longtime North Carolina senator who supported racial segregation. Brannon also said at an event sponsored by RedState.com that he decided to move to North Carolina because Helms was his hero.

Let me get out of the south before these teatards turn it into the Southern States of Racist and Guns.

 

[theprodigy]

They won't win the house anytime soon. And when they do I doubt there will be enough votes for any type of grand bargain regardless of who controls the senate without 60 votes.

If republicans were smart they would have taken Obama's entitlement cave years ago. From a republican perspective, raising taxes slightly in exchange for raising the Medicare eligibility age should have been a no brainer.

that's a huge if right there

 

[NYCmetsfan]

What point is the point democratic government when some people just ignore the established rules?

Also, why are sheriffs elected?

GREELEY, Colo. — When Sheriff John Cooke of Weld County explains in speeches why he is not enforcing the state’s new gun laws, he holds up two 30-round magazines. One, he says, he had before July 1, when the law banning the possession, sale or transfer of the large-capacity magazines went into effect. The other, he “maybe” obtained afterward.

He shuffles the magazines, which look identical, and then challenges the audience to tell the difference.

“How is a deputy or an officer supposed to know which is which?” he asks.

Colorado’s package of gun laws, enacted this year after mass shootings in Aurora, Colo., and Newtown, Conn., has been hailed as a victory by advocates of gun control. But if Sheriff Cooke and a majority of the other county sheriffs in Colorado offer any indication, the new laws — which mandate background checks for private gun transfers and outlaw magazines over 15 rounds — may prove nearly irrelevant across much of the state’s rural regions.

Some sheriffs, like Sheriff Cooke, are refusing to enforce the laws, saying that they are too vague and violate Second Amendment rights. Many more say that enforcement will be “a very low priority,” as several sheriffs put it. All but seven of the 62 elected sheriffs in Colorado signed on in May to a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the statutes.

The resistance of sheriffs in Colorado is playing out in other states, raising questions about whether tougher rules passed since Newtown will have a muted effect in parts of the American heartland, where gun ownership is common and grass-roots opposition to tighter restrictions is high.

In New York State, where Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo signed one of the toughest gun law packages in the nation last January, two sheriffs have said publicly they would not enforce the laws — inaction that Mr. Cuomo said would set “a dangerous and frightening precedent.” The sheriffs’ refusal is unlikely to have much effect in the state: According to the state’s Division of Criminal Justice Services, since 2010 sheriffs have filed less than 2 percent of the two most common felony gun charges. The vast majority of charges are filed by the state or local police.

In Liberty County, Fla., a jury in October acquitted a sheriff who had been suspended and charged with misconduct after he released a man arrested by a deputy on charges of carrying a concealed firearm. The sheriff, who was immediately reinstated by the governor, said he was protecting the man’s Second Amendment rights.

And in California, a delegation of sheriffs met with Gov. Jerry Brown this fall to try to persuade him to veto gun bills passed by the Legislature, including measures banning semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines and lead ammunition for hunting (Mr. Brown signed the ammunition bill but vetoed the bill outlawing the rifles).

“Our way of life means nothing to these politicians, and our interests are not being promoted in the legislative halls of Sacramento or Washington, D.C.,” said Jon E. Lopey, the sheriff of Siskiyou County, Calif., one of those who met with Governor Brown. He said enforcing gun laws was not a priority for him, and he added that residents of his rural region near the Oregon border are equally frustrated by regulations imposed by the federal Forest Service and the Environmental Protection Agency.

This year, the new gun laws in Colorado have become political flash points. Two state senators who supported the legislation were recalled in elections in September; a third resigned last month rather than face a recall. Efforts to repeal the statutes are already in the works.

Countering the elected sheriffs are some police chiefs, especially in urban areas, and state officials who say that the laws are not only enforceable but that they are already having an effect. Most gun stores have stopped selling the high-capacity magazines for personal use, although one sheriff acknowledged that some stores continued to sell them illegally. Some people who are selling or otherwise transferring guns privately are seeking background checks.

Eric Brown, a spokesman for Gov. John W. Hickenlooper of Colorado, said, “Particularly on background checks, the numbers show the law is working.” The Colorado Bureau of Investigation has run 3,445 checks on private sales since the law went into effect, he said, and has denied gun sales to 70 people.

A Federal District Court judge last month ruled against a claim in the sheriffs’ lawsuit that one part of the magazine law was unconstitutionally vague. The judge also ruled that while the sheriffs could sue as individuals, they had no standing to sue in their official capacity.

Still, the state’s top law enforcement officials acknowledged that sheriffs had wide discretion in enforcing state laws.

“We’re not in the position of telling sheriffs and chiefs what to do or not to do,” said Lance Clem, a spokesman for the Colorado Department of Public Safety. “We have people calling us all the time, thinking they’ve got an issue with their sheriff, and we tell them we don’t have the authority to intervene.”

Sheriffs who refuse to enforce gun laws around the country are in the minority, though no statistics exist. In Colorado, though, sheriffs like Joe Pelle of Boulder County, who support the laws and have more liberal constituencies that back them, are outnumbered.

“A lot of sheriffs are claiming the Constitution, saying that they’re not going to enforce this because they personally believe it violates the Second Amendment,” Sheriff Pelle said. “But that stance in and of itself violates the Constitution.”

Even Sheriff W. Pete Palmer of Chaffee County, one of the seven sheriffs who declined to join the federal lawsuit because he felt duty-bound to carry out the laws, said he was unlikely to aggressively enforce them. He said enforcement poses “huge practical difficulties,” and besides, he has neither the resources nor the pressure from his constituents to make active enforcement a high priority. Violations of the laws are misdemeanors.

“All law enforcement agencies consider the community standards — what is it that our community wishes us to focus on — and I can tell you our community is not worried one whit about background checks or high-capacity magazines,” he said.

At their extreme, the views of sheriffs who refuse to enforce gun laws echo the stand of Richard Mack, a former Arizona sheriff and the author of &#8220;The County Sheriff: America&#8217;s Last Hope.&#8221; Mr. Mack has argued that county sheriffs are the ultimate arbiters of what is constitutional and what is not. [<-Is this parody?] The Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, founded by Mr. Mack, is an organization of sheriffs and other officers who support his views.

&#8220;The Supreme Court does not run my office,&#8221; Mr. Mack said in an interview. &#8220;Just because they allow something doesn&#8217;t mean that a good constitutional sheriff is going to do it.&#8221; [<-Didn't know Andrew Jackson was back] He said that 250 sheriffs from around the country attended the association&#8217;s recent convention.

Matthew J. Parlow, a law professor at Marquette University, said that some states, including New York, had laws that allowed the governor in some circumstances to investigate and remove public officials who engaged in egregious misconduct &#8212; laws that in theory might allow the removal of sheriffs who failed to enforce state statutes.

But, he said, many governors could be reluctant to use such powers. And in most cases, any penalty for a sheriff who chose not to enforce state law would have to come from voters.

Sheriff Cooke, for his part, said that he was entitled to use discretion in enforcement, especially when he believed the laws were wrong or unenforceable.

&#8220;In my oath it says I&#8217;ll uphold the U.S. Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Colorado,&#8221; he said, as he posed for campaign photos in his office &#8212; he is running for the State Senate in 2014. &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t say I have to uphold every law passed by the Legislature.&#8221;

Posted the entire thing because the Times paywall is weird

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1387217063-eue/pHz6SZPfK75w9BVbHg

 

[The Librarian]

SOme north Carolina news.

Godwin's law is being evoked this morning.


North Carolina State Sen.: Obamacare Worse Than 'Nazis,' 'Terrorists'

lol

ALso, bad news for Kay Hagan:

[URL="http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/north-carolina-tea-party-candidate-brannon-attended-secessionist-rally"]Sen. Hagan Tea Party Challenger Attended Secessionist Rally

Let me get out of the south before these teatards turn it into the Southern States of Racist and Guns.

LOL

 

[Link]

What point is the point democratic government when some people just ignore the established rules?

Also, why are sheriffs elected?



Posted the entire thing because the Times paywall is weird

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1387217063-eue/pHz6SZPfK75w9BVbHg

“Our way of life means nothing to these politicians, and our interests are not being promoted in the legislative halls of Sacramento or Washington, D.C.,” said Jon E. Lopey, the sheriff of Siskiyou County, Calif., one of those who met with Governor Brown. He said enforcing gun laws was not a priority for him, and he added that residents of his rural region near the Oregon border are equally frustrated by regulations imposed by the federal Forest Service and the Environmental Protection Agency.

"Our way of life."

These people are cartoon characters.

 

[B-Dubs]

What point is the point democratic government when some people just ignore the established rules?

Also, why are sheriffs elected?



Posted the entire thing because the Times paywall is weird

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1387217063-eue/pHz6SZPfK75w9BVbHg

I think the idea of an elected sheriff is so that small towns don't wind up run by a single family, which happens anyway sometimes.

Either way that's disgusting.

lol

LOL

#dead

 

[NYCmetsfan]

"Our way of life."

These people are cartoon characters.

Why do I only hear that phrase to defend things people find wrong?

 

[InsaneZero]

Why do I only hear that phrase to defend things people find wrong?

Because if these things weren't wrong, they would have some merit other than tradition.

 

[Joe Molotov]

What point is the point democratic government when some people just ignore the established rules?

Obama didn't enforce DOMA, so both sides do it.

 

[Wilsongt]

lol

Scott Brown couldn't win in Mass so he is moving to NH to try for senate there.

 

[PhoenixDark]

What point is the point democratic government when some people just ignore the established rules?

Also, why are sheriffs elected?



Posted the entire thing because the Times paywall is weird

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1387217063-eue/pHz6SZPfK75w9BVbHg

This is why I've never been big on background checks. Very easy to ignore on the state level. Imagine if a federal background check law was passed this year, does anyone think sheriffs or governors in red states would comply?

In a perfect world, the FBI and other non-CIA agencies would be more focused on local home grown terrorism (specifically gun trafficking).

 

[Wilsongt]

Oh, wow. Someone is calling for a lynching of Edward Snowden. Literally.

One guess from which major network this gem came from:

&#8220;I think it&#8217;s a big mistake&#8230; My view is that Snowden committed treason, he ought to be convicted of that, and then he ought to swing from a tall oak tree.&#8221;

Spoiler

Faux News

Oop

Also, this exists:

A new Tumblr popped up out of nowhere this weekend and it features some seriously steamy fan fiction about a gay love affair between Republican Representatives Paul Ryan and Aaron Schock.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/this...people-have-way-too-much-time-on-their-hands/

 

[Joe Molotov]

ALso, bad news for Kay Hagan:

Sen. Hagan Tea Party Challenger Attended Secessionist Rally

Let me get out of the south before these teatards turn it into the Southern States of Racist and Guns.

http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2013/12/north-carolina-senate-candidate-thinks.html

LUMAYE: Let me just -- to give an example just what the government can't do -- and I didn't know this, I just found this out. And I'm not even going to pretend that I came up with this. I got it from Dr. Brannon. Stevie Wonder was given an award the other day. Right? By the president of the United --

BRANNON: Well, he was there, yeah, for the Burt Bacharach award. Burt Bacharach got a medal for the "king of music."

LUMAYE: Oh, it was Burt Bacharach. For the "king of music" or whatever it is.

BRANNON: And I just -- and this is a small token. I'm not saying nothing wrong with that. I love Stevie's music and all that stuff. But in Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution it says there shall be no titles of nobility given.

 

[Wilsongt]

http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2013/12/north-carolina-senate-candidate-thinks.html

The modern day GOP, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Aylinato]

This is why I've never been big on background checks. Very easy to ignore on the state level. Imagine if a federal background check law was passed this year, does anyone think sheriffs or governors in red states would comply?

In a perfect world, the FBI and other non-CIA agencies would be more focused on local home grown terrorism (specifically gun trafficking).

i wouldn't trust the CIA with anything in country. The last time we allowed them to do things in our own country, it was during Reagans era and he allowed them to fund terrorist organizations by funneling crack and other drugs to major urban hubs, of which we are only now recovering. Most of those cities also just HAPPENED to be the opposing party.

 

[empty vessel]

BRANNON: And I just -- and this is a small token. I'm not saying nothing wrong with that. I love Stevie's music and all that stuff. But in Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution it says there shall be no titles of nobility given.

But government-created entities like corporations may given rights against the people...

 

[Aaron Strife]

SOme north Carolina news.

Godwin's law is being evoked this morning.


North Carolina State Sen.: Obamacare Worse Than 'Nazis,' 'Terrorists'


Of course... he goes to "redefine" what he said.

ALso, bad news for Kay Hagan:

Sen. Hagan Tea Party Challenger Attended Secessionist Rally

Let me get out of the south before these teatards turn it into the Southern States of Racist and Guns.

Kay Hagan is doomed

Just like Elizabeth Warren

 

[FyreWulff]

Always like how rogue sheriffs will stand up for inanimate objects but not their fellow citizen.

 

[Aylinato]

But government-created entities like corporations may given rights against the people...

the original constitution has many things in it that had to change.

3/5 is one, slavery is another.

its a living document that has to change progressively or risk revolution, basically.



plus fuck corporations.

 

[The Librarian]

Kay Hagan is doomed

Just like Elizabeth Warren

PD, what have I told you about predicting races?

 

[Sibylus]

Judge: NSA phone program likely unconstitutional (Josh Gerstein, Politico)

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon found that the program appears to violate the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and seizures. He also said the Justice Department had failed to demonstrate that collecting the information had helped to head off terrorist attacks.

Acting on a lawsuit brought by conservative legal activist Larry Klayman, Leon issued a preliminary injunction barring the NSA from collecting so-called metadata pertaining to the Verizon accounts of Klayman and one of his clients. However, the judge stayed the order to allow for an appeal.

Government lawyers and the judges who found the NSA program legal pointed to a 1979 Supreme Court ruling, Smith v. Maryland, which found no search warrant was needed by police to install a device which recorded the numbers dialed on a particular phone line.

But Leon said the three-decade-old precedent was not applicable to a program like the NSA’s because of its sophistication and because telephone use has become far more intense in recent years.

“The ubiquity of phones has dramatically altered the quantity of information that is now available and, more importantly, what that information can tell the Government about people’s lives,” the judge wrote. “I cannot possible navigate these uncharted Fourth Amendment waters using as my North Star a case that predates the rise of cell phones.”

The judge went on to conclude that the searches involved in the NSA metadata program were likely not permissible under the Fourth Amendment in part because there was little evidence the program has actually prevented terrorism.

“I have significant doubts about the efficacy of the metadata collection program as a means of conducting time-sensitive investigations in cases involving imminent threats of terrorism,” Leon wrote. “The government does not cite a single instance in which analysis of the NSA’s bulk metadata collection actually stopped an imminent attack, or otherwise aided the Government in achieving any objective that was time-sensitive in nature.”

The opinion is supposedly hosted here, but it seems mildly hammered at the moment.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

That's a little...surprising to say the least.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Holy crap at the gun thread.

 

[PhoenixDark]

i wouldn't trust the CIA with anything in country. The last time we allowed them to do things in our own country, it was during Reagans era and he allowed them to fund terrorist organizations by funneling crack and other drugs to major urban hubs, of which we are only now recovering. Most of those cities also just HAPPENED to be the opposing party.

That's my point though, non-CIA groups should be focused more on stuff in the country than on terrorism. The FBI has taken a back seat on a lot of things to focus on terrorism, and given how weak the ATF is...issues like gun trafficking are overlooked.

It would be hard to ass legislation on gun trafficking, no doubt, given how much illegal shit goes on at gun shows. But I think it's an easier and far more effective way to address the issue than focusing on automatic weapons or background checks.

That's why I hated that Manchin bill, as well as Obama's proposed bill. Both bills insult the intelligence of people who understand the issue. I can just imagine Obama (or any democrat president, to be fair) making a show of signing such a bill, like it's a victory. No thanks.

 

[TestOfTide]

And in a few months to a year the supreme will make sure to reverse that decision with Scalia making a blatant semantics argument to justify his fucked up logic.

 

[Trouble]

http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2013/12/north-carolina-senate-candidate-thinks.html

I don't think this guy understands what 'nobility' means.

Unless Obama actually granted him lands and privileges with inherited rights.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I don't think this guy understands what 'nobility' means.

Unless Obama actually granted him lands and privileges with inherited rights.

As the King of Music, he is allowed to exercise his right to sleep with Miley Cyrus on her wedding night.

 

[cooljeanius]

Also, this exists:

A new Tumblr popped up out of nowhere this weekend and it features some seriously steamy fan fiction about a gay love affair between Republican Representatives Paul Ryan and Aaron Schock.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/this...people-have-way-too-much-time-on-their-hands/

All right, which PoliGAFer created this?

 

[Sibylus]

Lawyer Behind NSA Lawsuit Once Sued His Own Mother, Believes Obama Is Kenyan Socialist Muslim (Ryan J. Reilly, Huffpo)

Exhibit 10,378 in column "He's fucking nuts, but can hold uses".

Spoiler

Was stupidly-tempted to run with "Larry Klayman Wins Superbowl".

 

[RustyNails]

All right, which PoliGAFer created this?

We all know who.

 

[PhoenixDark]

We all know who.

I only write interracial fanfic.

 

[theprodigy]

right so what's going on in here today-

I only write interracial fanfic.

LOL

 

[Jooney]

It would be hard to ass legislation on gun trafficking, no doubt, given how much illegal shit goes on at gun shows. But I think it's an easier and far more effective way to address the issue than focusing on automatic weapons or background checks.

That's why I hated that Manchin bill, as well as Obama's proposed bill. Both bills insult the intelligence of people who understand the issue. I can just imagine Obama (or any democrat president, to be fair) making a show of signing such a bill, like it's a victory. No thanks.

There was no ban on automatic guns in the final manchin bill, and no restrictions on ammo.

The final bill was an expansion of background checks and a prohibition of setting up a gun registry.

A summary of the Manchin-Toomey gun proposal

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act - Summary

Key quote:

WHAT THE BILL WILL NOT DO

The bill will not, in any way, shape, or form infringe upon anyone&#8217;s Second
Amendment rights to keep and bear arms.

The bill will not take away anyone&#8217;s guns.

The bill will not ban any type of firearm.

The bill will not ban or restrict the use of any kind of bullet or any size clip or
magazine.

The bill will not create a national registry; in fact, it explicitly prohibits it.

People who say that the bill failed because of restrictions on automatic weapons and ammo types don't understand what was in the final bill, or are deliberately spreading FUD.

Having said that, I agree that gun trafficking laws will be effective, but background checks were a perfectly acceptable place to start and that couldn't pass because of the GOP filibuster.

 

[PhoenixDark]

There was no ban on automatic guns in the final manchin bill, and no restrictions on ammo.

The final bill was an expansion of background checks and a prohibition of setting up a gun registry.

A summary of the Manchin-Toomey gun proposal

The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act - Summary

Key quote:



People who say that the bill failed because of restrictions on automatic weapons and ammo types don't understand what was in the final bill, or are deliberately spreading FUD.

Having said that, I agree that gun trafficking laws will be effective, but background checks were a perfectly acceptable place to start and that couldn't pass because of the GOP filibuster.

I was discussing both bills, Manchin's and the White House one which did have an AWB.

 

[Oblivion]

Conservatives shitting bricks right about now:

A malfunctioning HealthCare.gov website and confusion over canceled policies have kept millions of Americans from choosing new health plans so far this fall. But with website access improving and the initial deadline to sign up for coverage looming Dec. 23, insurers are starting to blanket the airwaves and social media with glitzy ads urging consumers to buy their plans.

WellPoint Inc. – which has held off for weeks on a planned campaign as problems with the website made it impossible for many consumers to sign up – said it expects to spend up to $100 million by the end of this year on TV, social media and print ads targeting mostly young and healthy people – the consumers it covets most because their premiums will help offset the medical costs of older, sicker policyholders. […]

The enrollment surge has compelled some insurers to snap up TV ad time, said Scott Roskowski, director of business development at TVB. “It’s already very noticeable that the December pace has begun to pick up” with insurer advertising, Mr. Roskowski said. TVB projects that insurers will spend about $500 million on ads on local TV stations in 2014.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/insurers-the-rescue

I've always wondered why the insurance companies never really bothered to defend Obamacare. Sure, there's a bunch of things in there that makes them sad, but you would think the prospect of millions of new customers would give them a little bit of incentive to play ball.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Conservatives shitting bricks right about now:

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/insurers-the-rescue

I've always wondered why the insurance companies never really bothered to defend Obamacare. Sure, there's a bunch of things in there that makes them sad, but you would think the prospect of millions of new customers would give them a little bit of incentive to play ball.

I think they always planned to make the most of it once it was implemented. They just wanted the best possible deal for them before we got to this point.

Really wondering what December's enrollments look like. Should be at least triple November from the jumps we saw.

 

[Chumly]

I think they always planned to make the most of it once it was implemented. They just wanted the best possible deal for them before we got to this point.

Really wondering what December's enrollments look like. Should be at least triple November from the jumps we saw.

I would think so.


Anyone know if there are any numbers on people just enrolling directly with insurers for ACA compliant plans? I mean my dad enrolled in a gold plans directly with BCBS because he was way over the income limit and had a broker help him. I imagine that there were a .lot of people like him since if you already know your over the limit why try and sit through the website problems. Also you got those crazy nutbags that probably think Obama will steal their information.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Kinda off topic but this thread does go into media talk a bit.

I don't know if any of you are following the great smarm vs. snark war of 2013 (AKA buzzfeed vs gawker) but my god at this David Brooks column, where did this come from

Little boys and girls in ancient Athens grew up wanting to be philosophers. In Renaissance Florence they dreamed of becoming Humanists. But now a new phrase and a new intellectual paragon has emerged to command our admiration: The Thought Leader.

The Thought Leader is sort of a highflying, good-doing yacht-to-yacht concept peddler. Each year, he gets to speak at the Clinton Global Initiative, where successful people gather to express compassion for those not invited. Month after month, he gets to be a discussion facilitator at think tank dinners where guests talk about what it&#8217;s like to live in poverty while the wait staff glides through the room thinking bitter thoughts.

He doesn&#8217;t have students, but he does have clients. He doesn&#8217;t have dark nights of the soul, but his eyes blaze at the echo of the words &#8220;breakout session.&#8221;

Many people wonder how they too can become Thought Leaders and what the life cycle of one looks like.

In fact, the calling usually starts young. As a college student, the future Thought Leader is bathed in attention. His college application essay, &#8220;I Went to Panama to Teach the Natives About Math but They Ended Up Teaching Me About Life,&#8221; is widely praised by guidance counselors. On campus he finds himself enmeshed in a new social contract: Young people provide their middle-aged professors with optimism and flattery, and the professors provide them with grade inflation. He is widely recognized for his concern for humanity. (He spends spring break unicycling across Thailand while reading to lepers.)

Not armed with fascinating ideas but with the desire to have some, he launches off into the great struggle for attention. At first his prose is upbeat and smarmy, with a peppy faux sincerity associated with professional cheerleading.

Within a few years, though, his mood has shifted from smarm to snark. There is no writer so obscure as a 26-year-old writer. So he is suddenly consumed by ambition anxiety &#8212; the desperate need to prove that he is superior in sensibility to people who are superior to him in status. Soon he will be writing blog posts marked by coruscating contempt for extremely anodyne people: &#8220;Kelly Clarkson: Satan or Merely His Spawn?&#8221;

Of course the writer in this unjustly obscure phase will develop the rabid art of being condescending from below. Of course he will confuse his verbal dexterity for moral superiority. Of course he will seek to establish his edgy in-group identity by trying to prove that he was never really that into Macklemore.

Fortunately, this snarky phase doesn&#8217;t last. By his late 20s, he has taken a job he detests in a consulting firm, offering his colleagues strategy memos and sexual tension. By his early 30s, his soul has been so thoroughly crushed he&#8217;s incapable of thinking outside of consultantese. It&#8217;s not clear our Thought Leader started out believing he would write a book on the productivity gains made possible by improved electronic medical records, but having written such a book he can now travel from medical conference to medical conference making presentations and enjoying the rewards of being T.S.A. Pre.

By now the Thought Leader uses the word &#8220;space&#8221; a lot &#8212; as in, &#8220;Earlier in my career I spent a lot of time in the abject sycophancy space, but now I&#8217;m devoting more of my energies to the corporate responsibility space.&#8221;

The middle-aged Thought Leader&#8217;s life has hit equilibrium, composed of work, children and Bikram yoga. The desire to be snarky mysteriously vanishes with the birth of the first child. His prose has never been so lacking in irony and affect, just the clean translucence of selling out.

He&#8217;s succeeding. Unfortunately, the happy moment when you are getting just the right amount of attention passes, and you don&#8217;t realize you were in this moment until after it is gone.

The tragedy of middle-aged fame is that the fullest glare of attention comes just when a person is most acutely aware of his own mediocrity. By his late 50s, the Thought Leader is a lion of his industry, but he is bruised by snarky comments from new versions of his formerly jerkish self. Of course, this is when he utters his cries for civility and good manners, which are really just pleas for mercy to spare his tender spots.

In the end, though, a lifetime of bullet points are replaced by foreboding. Toward the end of his life the Thought Leader is regularly engaging in a phenomenon known as the powerless lunch. He and another formerly prominent person gather to have a portentous conversation of no importance whatsoever. In the fading of the light, he is gravely concerned about the way everything is going to hell.

Still, one rarely finds an octogenarian with status anxiety. He is beyond the battle for attention. Death approaches. Cruelly, it smells like reverence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/o...-leader.html?smid=tw-nytdavidbrooks&seid=auto

I have no idea how I'm supposed to feel right now. Is he self aware or elevating subtweeting to the NYT opinion page?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

#factcheck