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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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C

Chichikov

Member
speculawyer said:
Yeah, but I'm sure that PNW weed comes from Northern California.

Actually, it probably comes from Canada.
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It used to come from BC, but as far as I know, after 9/11 it became too much of a hassle and it's been mostly locally grown (I assume post legalization it will be practically all locally grown).

And we've all see how PWN weed stack up against the mediocre nor-cal weed in the NFC championship game.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
speculawyer said:
Btw, fuck Feinstein. You helped start this.
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Apparently the computers in question were set up by the CIA at a CIA facility so it's really weird that she would come out screaming about "spying".

You'd think with all the NSA stuff, a senator wouldn't make such seemingly specious charges. Doesn't she realize the GOP will just use this against her fellow Dem Senators in November as proof of "Obama's CIA"? No one will care that the CIA is trying to cover up what happened under Bush.

But she's safe in CA so who cares, right?
 
Z

Zen

Banned
So the big thing I am hearing now is that apparently the states cannot afford Obamacare, because by 2020 they will have to foot 10% of the bill. Is there any truth to this, or even if true is it actually an easily solved problem?
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Zen said:
So the big thing I am hearing now is that apparently the states cannot afford Obamacare, because by 2020 they will have to foot 10% of the bill. Is there any truth to this, or even if true is it actually an easily solved problem?
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It will be interesting. Medicaid rolls are increasing, even in states that didn't expand the program (woodwork effect ). The conservative argument is that free healthcare incentivizes people to sign up, exploding the roll numbers, to the point where even paying 10% would be problematic.

I haven't seen any numbers on this but it sounds like bullshit. It seems to me that this saves states money over the coming years since they won't have to deal with Medicaid expenses for a few years. And you could also argue that people on Medicaid will spend more money now that they don't have to worry about healthcare costs, which will benefit the state and businesses.

States like Texas are doing themselves a disservice by not signing up during the "free" period. By the time they do sign up in 3+ years they'll have to pay the 10%.
 
S

Skiptastic

Member
thepotatoman said:
Wow, I did not expect 12 Years a Slave having such a dramatic partisan divide like that. Very interesting.
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Republicans disagreed because they supported Gravity. It shows the failure of frivolous government expeditions like NASA and the Space Station. They can't even predict and protect themselves from random debris, and we want to give them billions to send a remote control car to Mars?
 
A

AntoneM

Member
Zen said:
So the big thing I am hearing now is that apparently the states cannot afford Obamacare, because by 2020 they will have to foot 10% of the bill. Is there any truth to this, or even if true is it actually an easily solved problem?
Click to expand...

10% of the expanded Medicaid, not 10% of all ACA health insurance.
 
S

Sathsquatch

Member
S

Sibylus

Banned
Cloudy said:
Apparently the computers in question were set up by the CIA at a CIA facility so it's really weird that she would come out screaming about "spying".

You'd think with all the NSA stuff, a senator wouldn't make such seemingly specious charges. Doesn't she realize the GOP will just use this against her fellow Dem Senators in November as proof of "Obama's CIA"? No one will care that the CIA is trying to cover up what happened under Bush.

But she's safe in CA so who cares, right?
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About those specious charges: it was the CIA itself that brought their "audit" to the attention of the Senator in the first place, despite an initial explicit understanding between the two bodies:
  • That the computers in question were allocated for Committee use
  • That the resultant Committee report was entirely property of said Committee, including the work on said computers
Regardless, neither domestic surveillance nor surveillance of its oversight body falls even remotely within the prescribed powers of the agency, and the CIA brushed off both fundamental restrictions like an afterthought. It's kind of a big fucking deal.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Cloudy said:
Apparently the computers in question were set up by the CIA at a CIA facility so it's really weird that she would come out screaming about "spying".

You'd think with all the NSA stuff, a senator wouldn't make such seemingly specious charges. Doesn't she realize the GOP will just use this against her fellow Dem Senators in November as proof of "Obama's CIA"? No one will care that the CIA is trying to cover up what happened under Bush.

But she's safe in CA so who cares, right?
Click to expand...

So your issue is strictly political? Who gives a shit how this impacts the administration. They deserve all the flack they'll receive, and to blame this them covering Bush's ass is ridiculous. It's 2014.

My issue is moreso that she is now magically concerned about the NSA/spying, whereas previously she didn't give a shit about the initial allegations about spying being done on other Americans. She's a hypocrite. Personally I hope Van Jones primaries her in 2014.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Chichikov said:
It used to come from BC, but as far as I know, after 9/11 it became too much of a hassle and it's been mostly locally grown (I assume post legalization it will be practically all locally grown).

And we've all see how PWN weed stack up against the mediocre nor-cal weed in the NFC championship game.
Click to expand...

much better than Colorado weed, apparently
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
PhoenixDark said:
So your issue is strictly political? Who gives a shit how this impacts the administration. They deserve all the flack they'll receive, and to blame this them covering Bush's ass is ridiculous. It's 2014.

My issue is moreso that she is now magically concerned about the NSA/spying, whereas previously she didn't give a shit about the initial allegations about spying being done on other Americans. She's a hypocrite. Personally I hope Van Jones primaries her in 2014.
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I'm not sure this makes her a hypocrite. Intelligence agencies spying on Congress is different from spying on citizens, or at least an argument can be made that it is. Frankly, the more one condones spying of any kind, the more likely one probably is to make that distinction, so I'm somewhat surprised that more people aren't distinguishing them. The argument can be made that spying on Congress presents problems distinct from spying on the general public because it very directly raises the issue of blackmail over policy makers.

For me, it makes no difference, because I think the same rationale applies to citizens, especially politically active ones who can be blackmailed into being silent, as the intelligence agencies in fact tried to do to MLK, Jr. In other words, I view citizens--through their political organizing activities--as policy makers too. But most people do not (although they should). Feinstein is a problem for supporters of democratic governance, but I'm not sure she's a hypocrite.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
“We have got this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work, and so there is a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with," he said on Bill Bennett's "Morning In America," as recorded by Think Progress.

In discussing inner city culture, Ryan referenced Charles Murray, a social scientist who has claimed that, "One reason that we still have poverty in the United States is that a lot of poor people are born lazy."
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/paul-ryan-inner-city-men-poverty

This guy...
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
Rasmussen has the Wisconsin governors race all tied up, and considering the muted campaign Burke's run so far this is promising.

Also PPP is showing that Paul "evolution is a lie from the depths of hell" Broun is leading double digits over his primary opponents, still gonna go to a runoff but this is also promising for a Dem pickup.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
So in other words. He's trying to blame black people...while not blaming black people?
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I think that's been the dog whistle for a long time. Saying "those lazy blacks" is obviously not going to work out well. But since the poor are disproportionately minority, they go to "those lazy poors" while blowing that whistle loud and clear. The base knows what they mean (and so should anyone else paying attention).

Which is not to say that everyone using that argument is explicitly racist; there are several reasons they could hold an anti-poor people bias (they tend to vote Dem, they actually think poor people are lazy, etc.). But I do think it's often used as a code word to the base.
 
K

KingK

Member
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
WayneMorse said:
Rasmussen has the Wisconsin governors race all tied up, and considering the muted campaign Burke's run so far this is promising.

Also PPP is showing that Paul "evolution is a lie from the depths of hell" Broun is leading double digits over his primary opponents, still gonna go to a runoff but this is also promising for a Dem pickup.
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Too bad Rasmussen is junk, though it still helps for the all-important media narrative, as pundits still take them seriously for some reason.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
I think that's been the dog whistle for a long time. Saying "those lazy blacks" is obviously not going to work out well. But since the poor are disproportionately minority, they go to "those lazy poors" while blowing that whistle loud and clear. The base knows what they mean (and so should anyone else paying attention).

Which is not to say that everyone using that argument is explicitly racist; there are several reasons they could hold an anti-poor people bias (they tend to vote Dem, they actually think poor people are lazy, etc.). But I do think it's often used as a code word to the base.
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I wonder who was the last openly racist Politician elected.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
KingK said:
What a piece of shit. So how does he explain higher poverty rates among minorities compared to whites? Are minorities just naturally more likely to be born lazy than white people? The reason conservatives get accused of being racist so much is because if you follow their philosophies to their logical conclusions, it always comes down to "minorities are lazier than whites."
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That is usually what they are implying. They have just figured out how to be racist fucks with the ability to deny that their statements were racist. And how dare you accuse them of being racist because being accused of racism is far worse than actual racism!!!
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
GhaleonEB said:
I think that's been the dog whistle for a long time. Saying "those lazy blacks" is obviously not going to work out well. But since the poor are disproportionately minority, they go to "those lazy poors" while blowing that whistle loud and clear. The base knows what they mean (and so should anyone else paying attention).

Which is not to say that everyone using that argument is explicitly racist; there are several reasons they could hold an anti-poor people bias (they tend to vote Dem, they actually think poor people are lazy, etc.). But I do think it's often used as a code word to the base.
Click to expand...

I used to give people making statements like this the benefit of the doubt, but ever since Obama became president these people have been so emboldened. These types of comments have become so frequent and many times even more blatant, I am now at the point where if I find out you are Republican, or an 'independent who always voted republican,' I automatically assume you are racist unless you prove otherwise.
 
Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
GhaleonEB said:
I think that's been the dog whistle for a long time. Saying "those lazy blacks" is obviously not going to work out well. But since the poor are disproportionately minority, they go to "those lazy poors" while blowing that whistle loud and clear. The base knows what they mean (and so should anyone else paying attention).

Which is not to say that everyone using that argument is explicitly racist; there are several reasons they could hold an anti-poor people bias (they tend to vote Dem, they actually think poor people are lazy, etc.). But I do think it's often used as a code word to the base.
Click to expand...

I think your dog-whistle theory is a result of partisan bias, rather than evidence, but I'm open to persuasion.

After all, most of the poor (about 60%--see Table 1 in the linked report) are white. Even excluding Hispanics from that number still leaves more poor non-Hispanic whites (around 45% of all poor people) than poor members of any other racial group. So on what basis do you claim that the politician who says "those lazy poors" (to borrow your phrasing) means (at least sometimes) to ignore the majority (or a very substantial minority) of poor people? And what evidence do you have to support that some, most, or all of that politician's target audience will so understand it?

EDIT: Also, note that the "born lazy" comment wasn't from Ryan. He just "referenced" a person (Charles Murray) who had made such a comment in the past, and did not specify whether he endorsed (or whether he was even aware of) that particular comment.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
So in other words. He's trying to blame black people...while not blaming black people?
Click to expand...

Wow. He's saying we're not all born equal and doesn't even give a fuck.

Metaphoreus said:
EDIT: Also, note that the "born lazy" comment wasn't from Ryan. He just "referenced" a person (Charles Murray) who had made such a comment in the past, and did not specify whether he endorsed that particular comment.
Click to expand...

Why bring up the comment then? I'll concede that the comment wasn't racist itself. (Though it's suspect when coupled with "inner city"
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Metaphoreus said:
I think your dog-whistle theory is a result of partisan bias, rather than evidence, but I'm open to persuasion.

After all, most of the poor (about 60%--see Table 1 in the linked report) are white. Even excluding Hispanics from that number still leaves more poor non-Hispanic whites (around 45% of all poor people) than poor members of other racial groups. So on what basis do you claim that the politician who says "those lazy poors" (to borrow your phrasing) means (at least sometimes) to ignore the majority (or a very substantial minority) of poor people? And what evidence do you have to support that some, most, or all of that politician's target audience will so understand it?

EDIT: Also, note that the "born lazy" comment wasn't from Ryan. He just "referenced" a person (Charles Murray) who had made such a comment in the past, and did not specify whether he endorsed that particular comment.
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Its a code word. Referring to the intercity or lazy poor means black to the base. There is tons of evidence for this. The fact most poor are white means nothing. There are other words for them. "Lower middle class" "down on their luck" Etc.
Metaphoreus said:
I'm not the one claiming top-secret messages that only Republicans can decipher.
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Its not top secret messages its coded language. Its a very common thing. Its been studied.

Do you seriously discount the southern strategy, welfare queen, open statements By people like Atwater, racial divides in polling, the confederate flags etc?
 
Metaphoreus

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Fenderputty said:
Why bring up the comment then? I'll concede that the comment wasn't racist itself. (Though it's suspect when coupled with "inner city"
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Why, indeed? Do you know who brought up the comment? It wasn't Ryan and it wasn't the radio host.

APKmetsfan said:
Its a code word. Referring to the intercity or lazy poor means black to the base. There is tons of evidence for this. The fact most poor are white means nothing. There are other words for them. "Lower middle class" "down on their luck" Etc.
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Such as?

EDIT:
APKmetsfan said:
Its been studied.
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Show me.

APKmetsfan said:
Do you seriously discount the southern strategy, welfare queen, open statements By people like Atwater, racial divides in polling, the confederate flags etc?
Click to expand...

What does any of that have to do with GhaleonEB's comment and the evidence supporting it?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
WayneMorse said:
BTW Jan Brewer said she's retiring at the end of her term and wont run for re-election.

Another possible Dem governor pickup?
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PPP had the likely D candidate Fred DuVal tied with or leading the GOPers, but a lot of undecideds.

The red states I could see the Democrats winning in are AZ, KS, GA and SC. As much as I love Wendy Davis and everything she stands for, I don't think she could win even if it were a repeat of 2006.
 
K

KingK

Member
Metaphoreus said:
I think your dog-whistle theory is a result of partisan bias, rather than evidence, but I'm open to persuasion.

After all, most of the poor (about 60%--see Table 1 in the linked report) are white. Even excluding Hispanics from that number still leaves more poor non-Hispanic whites (around 45% of all poor people) than poor members of any other racial group. So on what basis do you claim that the politician who says "those lazy poors" (to borrow your phrasing) means (at least sometimes) to ignore the majority (or a very substantial minority) of poor people? And what evidence do you have to support that some, most, or all of that politician's target audience will so understand it?

EDIT: Also, note that the "born lazy" comment wasn't from Ryan. He just "referenced" a person (Charles Murray) who had made such a comment in the past, and did not specify whether he endorsed (or whether he was even aware of) that particular comment.
Click to expand...

But a higher percentage of minority communities live in poverty than whites. The numbers are skewed when you look at the totals because whites make up a large majority of the total population.

I'm saying that if you assert that the primary cause of poverty is people being "born lazy," then following that to it's logical end, you must conclude that minorities are more likely to be born lazy than whites. Which I think would be pretty universally accepted as a racist statement, whereas the statement that logically leads to that conclusion (poor people are poor because of natural laziness), is not so easily or immediately identified as racist.

To your edit, thank you for pointing out that Ryan was referencing the person and did not actually say that quote. I had read it as Ryan repeating that quote from the guy, but that's not the case so it's not quite so bad.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
What do you know? The GOP's plan to delay the individual mandate would actually raise premiums and increase the number of uninsured!

GOP's Anti-Obamacare Bill Would Hike Premiums, Uninsure 13 Million

House GOP legislation to delay Obamacare's individual mandate by five years would cause a spike in health insurance premiums and 13 million fewer Americans insured, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The bill is set to come up for a vote on Friday, a Republican leadership aide said.

A delay of the mandate until 2019 would save $170 billion and use the money to fund a $138 billion "doc fix" that avoids the prospect of large physician payment cuts set to take effect on April 1, the budget office said.

It would cause insurance premiums to "increase by 10 percent to 20 percent" come 2018, CBO projected. It would lead to one million fewer people on Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Plan, one million fewer people with employer-based coverage and seven million fewer with coverage from the Obamacare exchanges.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) on Tuesday rejected the idea. Delaying the individual mandate has been a nonstarter for the White House.
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N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
WayneMorse said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrdTX8m5G98
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iulgvAM6fgxSC.gif
 
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