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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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Glad Peters is leading again but if the Dems fuck up beating Snyder they deserve to lose.

Waiting eagerly for their North Carolina poll.
 
http://theadvocate.com/home/8844068-125/us-rep-vance-mcallister-admits

U.S. Rep. Vance McAllister admits to infidelity

After being caught on videotape, U.S. Rep. Vance McAllister, who ran as a devoted family man and Christian, asked forgiveness from his family and constituents Monday for kissing an aide a month after being sworn into Congress.

To stand out from a crowded field last fall, McAllister, R-Swartz, used commercials asking voters to pray for him, promised to bring family values to Congress and relied on the stars of “Duck Dynasty,” the popular reality program that famously ends each episode in prayer.


...

A video acquired by The Ouachita Citizen newspaper and released Monday showed McAllister on Dec. 23 embracing and giving an aide — the wife of a longtime friend — a lingering kiss in the dark of his Monroe district office.

...

After the election, McAllister said those who advised that Riser go negative should be “run out of Louisiana” for failing to represent Louisiana values.

Naturally, this guy opposes marriage equality.
 
What does this half to do with his ability to govern ? Politicians lie and go back on campaign promises all the time. I don't understand why these things matter so much.

Who cares?

Oppress the rights of others based on strong religious belief.

Personally violate said religious belief, annulling the original driver for oppressing the rights of others.

Nothing wrong with this?
 
On the other hand, rare good news from the state:

Judge rules for MoveOn.org in state billboard flap

dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls
MoveOn.org’s roadside billboard that uses Louisiana’s tourism slogan to criticize Gov. Bobby Jindal’s refusal to expand Medicaid can stay right where it is on Interstate 10 in Port Allen, a federal judge ruled Monday.

U.S. District Judge Shelly Dick, who heard arguments last week in Lt. Gov. Jay Dardenne’s lawsuit against the pro-Medicaid expansion group, refused to order the national advocacy group to remove the billboard.

Dick, of Baton Rouge, said the state failed to demonstrate a compelling reason to curtail MoveOn’s political speech in favor of protecting the state’s registered trademark. She also said Dardenne “underestimates the intelligence and reasonableness of people viewing the billboard.”
 
Oppress the rights of others based on strong religious belief.

Personally violate said religious belief, annulling the original driver for oppressing the rights of others.

Nothing wrong with this?

I don't think my opinion matters in his relationships.

He wasn't caught with a man. He's not changing his views. He's apologized. He's not getting replaced by someone for equal rights. And are we gonna judge all politicians based on their hypocrisies demanding they resign?

This isn't about gay marriage.
 
I don't think my opinion matters in his relationships.

He wasn't caught with a man. He's not changing his views. He's apologized. He's not getting replaced by someone for equal rights. And are we gonna judge all politicians based on their hypocrisies demanding they resign?

This isn't about gay marriage.

I'm gonna judge bigots based on their hypocrisies, sure. Why not? This is the guy who brought the Duck Dynasty nutjobs to the SotU to laud them for their crazy racist and homophobic bullshit.
 
Glad Peters is leading again but if the Dems fuck up beating Snyder they deserve to lose.

Waiting eagerly for their North Carolina poll.
It's out now. Hagan trails 6 of her opponents by margins ranging from 1-4 points. But she's leading Thom Tillis by 2 (43-41) who's her most likely opponent.
 
I'm gonna judge bigots based on their hypocrisies, sure. Why not? This is the guy who brought the Duck Dynasty nutjobs to the SotU to laud them for their crazy racist and homophobic bullshit.

I'm not saying you can think he's a horrible person but I don't get the calls to resign. They're stupid. Nothing has changed since from when he was being elected. Again I get the hypocrisy if he was caught with another man but the two issues don't seem related. Lots of dems talk up their families, how much they love their wife and how much they want to strengthen them and support policies that help them and get caught cheating. Bringing gay marriage into this seems cheap.

He cheated on his wife. So what?

On a side note I'm pretty sure this leak came from the right not the left.
 
Michigan is like Pennsylvania with respect to state-wide polls. It'll look close until the big county/city (Detroit, Philly) is counted. Peters will be fine unless something crazy happens.
 
Why do dems keep bringing up issues they know wont get passed?

So they can get audio and quotes like this

"Instead of focusing on jobs, [Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid] launched into another confusing attack on the left's latest bizarre obsession,[Referring to Equal Pay]" the Republican leader said on the Senate floor. "Just think about that. The percentage of Americans in the workforce is at an almost four-decade low, and Democrats chose to ignore serious job-creation ideas so they could blow a few kisses to their powerful pals on the left."
 
Michigan is like Pennsylvania with respect to state-wide polls. It'll look close until the big county/city (Detroit, Philly) is counted. Peters will be fine unless something crazy happens.
It also attracts a number of right-wing pollsters and pundits talk breathlessly about how it's a tossup state and then it totally is not.

Michigan's Senate race was declared one of the early tossups in 2012 and yet the Democratic candidate in Mississippi did better than the Republican in Michigan did.

Mitch McConnell:

On Tuesday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) dismissed the Democrats' all-out push for action on gender pay equity as a "bizarre obsession" designed to blow "kisses to their powerful pals on the left."

"Instead of focusing on jobs, [Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid] launched into another confusing attack on the left's latest bizarre obsession," the Republican leader said on the Senate floor. "Just think about that. The percentage of Americans in the workforce is at an almost four-decade low, and Democrats chose to ignore serious job-creation ideas so they could blow a few kisses to their powerful pals on the left."
jon-stewart-popcorn.gif
 

Wilsongt

Member
It also attracts a number of right-wing pollsters and pundits talk breathlessly about how it's a tossup state and then it totally is not.

Michigan's Senate race was declared one of the early tossups in 2012 and yet the Democratic candidate in Mississippi did better than the Republican in Michigan did.

Mitch McConnell:


jon-stewart-popcorn.gif

Oh... Oh my. This is too good... The stupidity...
 
It also attracts a number of right-wing pollsters and pundits talk breathlessly about how it's a tossup state and then it totally is not.

Michigan's Senate race was declared one of the early tossups in 2012 and yet the Democratic candidate in Mississippi did better than the Republican in Michigan did.

Mitch McConnell:


jon-stewart-popcorn.gif

The last post!
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I'm not saying you can think he's a horrible person but I don't get the calls to resign. They're stupid. Nothing has changed since from when he was being elected. Again I get the hypocrisy if he was caught with another man but the two issues don't seem related. Lots of dems talk up their families, how much they love their wife and how much they want to strengthen them and support policies that help them and get caught cheating. Bringing gay marriage into this seems cheap.

He cheated on his wife. So what?

On a side note I'm pretty sure this leak came from the right not the left.

...dude.
 
I don't think my opinion matters in his relationships.

He wasn't caught with a man. He's not changing his views. He's apologized. He's not getting replaced by someone for equal rights. And are we gonna judge all politicians based on their hypocrisies demanding they resign?

This isn't about gay marriage.

Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuals. But he railed against divorce. There is a huge inherent hypocrisy in Christians that cheat but make a huge deal out of homosexuality when Jesus said NOTHING about it.
 

What? I just don't think the outrage is justified. This isn't an Eich situation. This isn't about gay marriage. The dude messed up his marriage. That's not cool. I just don't know why voters should care.

Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuals. But he railed against divorce. There is a huge inherent hypocrisy in Christians that cheat but make a huge deal out of homosexuality when Jesus said NOTHING about it.

I really don't think its very helpful for people outside a religion to speak as authorities of it when talking about doctrinal issues.

But even then where is the connection between this and gay marriage? Its not a direct line where someone voices opposition but then secretly does something to support it. Cheating on his wife didn't have anything to do with his opposition to gay marriage. Which is a horrible position he holds.

Its just strikes me as grasping at something that isn't there.
 
What? I just don't think the outrage is justified. This isn't an Eich situation. This isn't about gay marriage. The dude messed up his marriage. That's not cool. I just don't know why voters should care.
Because they elect these people on 'family values'. That is what they are supposed to be their strong point.

It is like when Al Gore drives some gas guzzler . . . it is hypocritical thing.
 
Because they elect these people on 'family values'. That is what they are supposed to be their strong point.

It is like when Al Gore drives some gas guzzler . . . it is hypocritical thing.

Oh sure its hypocrisy (Though I must say I'm hesitant to put personal failings on the same level of intentional hypocrisy, glass houses and all that) but again where is the hypocrisy in regards to gay marriage?

But if hypocrisy is going to be the standard, ever politician deserves to leave office
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think republicans understand that it's not just employment, but also stagnant wages not keeping up with cost of living that are causing average people to feel like they're in a recession still.

Sure great employment numbers could help with those wages, but these policies focusing on wages aren't going to be unwelcome.
 
I don't think republicans understand that it's not just employment, but also stagnant wages not keeping up with cost of living that are causing average people to feel like they're in a recession still.

Sure great employment numbers could help with those wages, but these policies focusing on wages aren't going to be unwelcome.

This is something that both the Republicans and Democrats ignore. I mean sure Democrats want to raise the minimum wage but that's it. They aren't too big in favor of unions or worker/business relationships. The liberals are just putting a bandaid on a gushing wound that is gradually opening wider and wider. Increasing the welfare and minimum wage won't stitch it.
 
On Tuesday, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) dismissed the Democrats' all-out push for action on gender pay equity as a "bizarre obsession" designed to blow "kisses to their powerful pals on the left."

I'm not sure I understand this. Is McConnell calling women "powerful pals on the left."? I guess that is sorta true . . . without women, the Dems would fall apart.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
This is something that both the Republicans and Democrats ignore. I mean sure Democrats want to raise the minimum wage but that's it. They aren't too big in favor of unions or worker/business relationships. The liberals are just putting a bandaid on a gushing wound that is gradually opening wider and wider. Increasing the welfare and minimum wage won't stitch it.

Very true, but at least democrats are starting to get it by talking about equal pay and minimum wage laws alongside a general focus on income inequality.

I just feel like the republicans have been caught completely off guard about this, and their responses just seem straight up confused that Democrats are talking about the economy in a way that doesn't include jobs. I mean just look at McConnell's confused response about the equal pay bill that Aaron posted.

I'm sure eventually they'll get the problem and start including wages in the rhetoric of their proposed solutions, but right now I find it very entertaining seeing them running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to figure out how to handle this new Democrat strategy.

I'm not sure I understand this. Is McConnell calling women "powerful pals on the left."? I guess that is sorta true . . . without women, the Dems would fall apart.

I'm trying to figure this out too. Could he be simply referring to Hillary Clinton, like she's some sort of all powerful puppet master of the democrat party? Or donors like Soros as if they have something to personally gain from this bill? or feminist activists as if they any power beyond the ability to perform an occasional demonstration?

Anything I can possibility think of all seems ludicrous. It almost does sound like he's just saying "if white men were the only ones who voted, Democrats wouldn't be backing this bill".
 
This is something that both the Republicans and Democrats ignore. I mean sure Democrats want to raise the minimum wage but that's it. They aren't too big in favor of unions or worker/business relationships. The liberals are just putting a bandaid on a gushing wound that is gradually opening wider and wider. Increasing the welfare and minimum wage won't stitch it.
And Dems shouldn't just push this as helping the little guy, push it as a way to help the overall economy. It is well known that if you pay people at the lower rungs more, they will spend more and it will boost the economy. I think our economy is a bit wedged with so much money going to the very top. They don't spend it. They just invest more, bid up fancy art, build vanity projects, and do other things that don't really help the overall broader economy.

Bill Maher had a good rant last night when he pointed out some Walton heir spending a billion on an art museum in Arkansas. "She wanted to do something to make a difference. . . hey lady how about giving your employees a raise, you deluded nitwit?"

Edit: Link to the new rules:
http://realtimewithbillmaher.blogspot.com/2014/04/new-rules-4414.html
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
And Dems shouldn't just push this as helping the little guy, push it as a way to help the overall economy. It is well known that if you pay people at the lower rungs more, they will spend more and it will boost the economy. I think our economy is a bit wedged with so much money going to the very top. They don't spend it. They just invest more, bid up fancy art, build vanity projects, and do other things that don't really help the overall broader economy.

Bill Maher had a good rant last night when he pointed out some Walton heir spending a billion on an art museum in Arkansas. "She wanted to do something to good . . . hey lady, if you want to do something good then how about giving your employees a raise?"

No kidding. It's not like that theory is any more complicated than Reaganomics. Hell, Democrats could even use the "a rising tide raises all boats" line to promote it too.
 

Aaron

Member
Oh sure its hypocrisy (Though I must say I'm hesitant to put personal failings on the same level of intentional hypocrisy, glass houses and all that) but again where is the hypocrisy in regards to gay marriage?

But if hypocrisy is going to be the standard, ever politician deserves to leave office
They should then. It's not difficult to keep the values you espouse if you're not a scumbag. 'They all do it' is the lowest rung on the ladder of excuses. There's no reason anyone should put up with that. There's no reason why we have to just accept politicians will say anything to get elected as the norm. It would be absurd in any other context.
 
Spec and Potato, you both make great points, however there is something that I felt hasn't brought up. The thing is America just doesn't have a problem with income inequality with the top 1%, it has a problem with income inequality with the top 40% or so. Much of the "disappearing" middle class jobs never really disappeared. What happened is that the jobs just don't pay that much anymore. Wages have hurt the poor and the working class the most. Being a butcher, janitor, and (as much as GAF likes to pretend otherwise) a waiter/waitress just doesn't pay that much anymore. Yes the middle and upper class have had their wages fallen but not as much in comparison. In reality if we do make the top 1% redistribute their wealth, it is very likely that by doing that we would have ignite the left to push to come for the top 40% as well, because well they should. THIS is what much of America is scared of. "Yeah the blacks and mexicans will come for the rich, fine fuck them, but soon after that they'll come for me!"
 
They should then. It's not difficult to keep the values you espouse if you're not a scumbag. 'They all do it' is the lowest rung on the ladder of excuses. There's no reason anyone should put up with that. There's no reason why we have to just accept politicians will say anything to get elected as the norm. It would be absurd in any other context.

First of all, Where did he break his promise? What does his personal mistakes have to do with his votes?

And they all do it because its inherent in the job. Politicians aren't robots, they change opinions, deal with facts as they are. He had a personal failing. Attack him for his positions but his personal failings don't affect that.

I'm serious at a struggle to understand why him cheating on his wife should mean he should resign.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
First of all, Where did he break his promise? What does his personal mistakes have to do with his votes?

And they all do it because its inherent in the job. Politicians aren't robots, they change opinions, deal with facts as they are. He had a personal failing. Attack him for his positions but his personal failings don't affect that.

I'm serious at a struggle to understand why him cheating on his wife should mean he should resign.

If he made personal ethics and stuff like that a big part of his campaign then it's definitely something voters should get pissed over. If he got elected solely on his ideas and stances on issues then you're right. Not every politician gets elected the same way, so we can't hold them all to the same standard.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Oh sure its hypocrisy (Though I must say I'm hesitant to put personal failings on the same level of intentional hypocrisy, glass houses and all that) but again where is the hypocrisy in regards to gay marriage?

But if hypocrisy is going to be the standard, ever politician deserves to leave office

Huh? Why are you bringing up gay marriage? Sure, we have a Republican who was caught cheating with a woman for once, but he's still one of those shithead "family values" douchebags.

Also, he fired the staffer he had an affair with, but he's still gonna run for re-election.
 
If he made personal ethics and stuff like that a big part of his campaign then it's definitely something voters should get pissed over. If he got elected solely on his ideas and stances on issues then you're right. Not every politician gets elected the same way, so we can't hold them all to the same standard.

On-the-Issues.jpg


Huh? Why are you bringing up gay marriage? Sure, we have a Republican who was caught cheating with a woman for once, but he's still one of those shithead "family values" douchebags.

Also, he fired the staffer he had an affair with.
Because it was the thing I was seeing liberals post about. I just think all these sex scandals are stupid. People shouldn't be concerned about other peoples sex lives. Full stop. the only time I think its relevant is if they are passing anti-gay laws while being in a gay relationship or something.

I'm not defending the guy, what he did was dispicable. He hurt his wife, his family, the women and his husband for nothing. Adultery is a horrible thing. I just think voters and the public has no place in that. I hold that view universally.
 

dabig2

Member
Spec and Potato, you both make great points, however there is something that I felt hasn't brought up. The thing is America just doesn't have a problem with income inequality with the top 1%, it has a problem with income inequality with the top 40% or so. Much of the "disappearing" middle class jobs never really disappeared. What happened is that the jobs just don't pay that much anymore. Wages have hurt the poor and the working class the most. Being a butcher, janitor, and (as much as GAF likes to pretend otherwise) a waiter/waitress just doesn't pay that much anymore. Yes the middle and upper class have had their wages fallen but not as much in comparison. In reality if we do make the top 1% redistribute their wealth, it is very likely that by doing that we would have ignite the left to push to come for the top 40% as well, because well they should. THIS is what much of America is scared of. "Yeah the blacks and mexicans will come for the rich, fine fuck them, but soon after that they'll come for me!"

True, and you can see this is every minimum wage increase topic on Neogaf, Reddit, <fill in forum board here> on the internet. People get really incensed when they see proposals that have "burger flippers" making almost as much as they do now. You would think the focus would then be to try to raise their own wages instead of keeping to depress the wages of others, but no. We get into a fight over table scraps while the rich and powerful laugh their asses off to the bank as they watch the peons fight amongst themselves ensuring that no one gets anything more than what the rich deemed them to be worthy of.
 
A checklist isn't really what I was talking about. You need to look at his speeches and his rhetoric. You need to take a holistic approach here.

That tells me that your trying to define his campaign and the reasons for him being elected to the reasons that you want. He talked a lot about family values but his campaign was about much more.

In fact he advocated for the medicaid expansion,mandated coverage and the idea of 'hand ups'. Why is that not the reason voters picked him? Did his opponent differ on the family values issue?

During Friday's debate, he made it clear that because of the high poverty rate in the 5th District -- one of the highest in the country -- he believes the governor should accept the Medicaid expansion. He also criticized Jindal for his push to do away with the state's charity hospital system.

"Our governor and Sen. Riser right here have gutted (heath care) to the core and privatized it," said McAllister, adding, "Before we give handouts, we need to give hand-ups."

Not accepting offers like Medicaid expansion is the wrong choice, McAllister said: "If you're going down the road at 50 mph, you just can't throw it in reverse."

Riser accused McAllister of flip-flopping on the federal health care law, telling Democrats he was for it and Republicans he was against it. Riser said the law "has become a failure" that has to be repealed "at all costs."

"We sent a man to the moon, certainly we can repeal this law," Riser said.

McAllister and Riser also differed on another health care policy. Riser believes insurance companies have the right to decide whether or not to cover people with pre-existing conditions. McAllister said companies should be required to cover them.

For much of the rest of the debate, the two men were in agreement on issues. Both are in favor of infrastructure improvements and funding for food stamps; bots said cuts to higher education in Louisiana have been detrimental to the health of the state's institutions.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
That tells me that your trying to define his campaign and the reasons for him being elected to the reasons that you want. He talked a lot about family values but his campaign was about much more.

In fact he advocated for the medicaid expansion,mandated coverage and the idea of 'hand ups'. Why is that not the reason voters picked him? Did his opponent differ on the family values issue?

Now you're assigning motive to my words that isn't there. All I said was that if he pushed the family values stuff really hard then the voters have a right to be pissed.
 
Now you're assigning motive to my words that isn't there. All I said was that if he pushed the family values stuff really hard then the voters have a right to be pissed.
Where did he fail them on it? He didn't not vote for those things. He did something bad in his personal life.
 
First of all, Where did he break his promise? What does his personal mistakes have to do with his votes?

And they all do it because its inherent in the job. Politicians aren't robots, they change opinions, deal with facts as they are. He had a personal failing. Attack him for his positions but his personal failings don't affect that.

I'm serious at a struggle to understand why him cheating on his wife should mean he should resign.
That argument works for Bill Clinton. But he didn't run on 'family values'. In fact the whole Genifer Flowers thing showed us during the campaign that he had strayed in the past. (It is funny, no one remembers her name anymore because Monica Lewinsky has replaced it.)

But if this guy ran on family values, and that was his selling point then it is hugely hypocritical. Again, I think when people mock Al Gore when he flies around on private jets, that is actually a pretty effective attack on Al Gore. And Al Gore really should install a huge solar array on his big house if he doesn't want to look hypocritical. (I know, he says he buys carbon credits but that is just not tangible and visual enough.)
 
Spec and Potato, you both make great points, however there is something that I felt hasn't brought up. The thing is America just doesn't have a problem with income inequality with the top 1%, it has a problem with income inequality with the top 40% or so. Much of the "disappearing" middle class jobs never really disappeared. What happened is that the jobs just don't pay that much anymore. Wages have hurt the poor and the working class the most. Being a butcher, janitor, and (as much as GAF likes to pretend otherwise) a waiter/waitress just doesn't pay that much anymore. Yes the middle and upper class have had their wages fallen but not as much in comparison. In reality if we do make the top 1% redistribute their wealth, it is very likely that by doing that we would have ignite the left to push to come for the top 40% as well, because well they should. THIS is what much of America is scared of. "Yeah the blacks and mexicans will come for the rich, fine fuck them, but soon after that they'll come for me!"
There shouldn't be any direct 'redistribution of wealth'. I just think the fact that we have infrastructure that is crappy and falling apart, we have rich people with so much money they don't know what to do with it, and we have poor people with no jobs can be combined by taxing the rich a little more and spending on infrastructure projects to create jobs for those poor people. And doing so will ultimately grow the overall economy such that the rich people benefit. I feel that at certain points, taxing people too little can actually hurt the economy when you end up with massive amounts of potential economic activity being idled (unemployed people).
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Where did he fail them on it? He didn't not vote for those things. He did something bad in his personal life.

I never said he did! All I said was if he ran on that stuff the voters have a right to be mad. If you push family values stuff really hard then you've got to live up to them. It's no different than saying you'll support something when you run but then do nothing or fight against it when you're in power.
 
I assumed we'd been over this stuff by now. "Family values" Republicans wanting to keep gay people from getting married because it's a perversion of the institution going out and perverting their own institutions is a pretty familiar occurrence by now. This guy isn't even our only Congressman doing this kind of thing - we've had Vitter as our Senator through his prostitution scandal and he's even going to be our next governor. Both of these guys talk about morals and values and religion as reasons to keep other people down, but they don't even walk their own talk.

I don't hate these guys or have my pitchfork out any more than I usually do. I just figured I'd throw PoliGAF some entertaining hypocrisy and naked bigotry to chew on.
 

fallagin

Member
It also attracts a number of right-wing pollsters and pundits talk breathlessly about how it's a tossup state and then it totally is not.

Michigan's Senate race was declared one of the early tossups in 2012 and yet the Democratic candidate in Mississippi did better than the Republican in Michigan did.

Mitch McConnell:


jon-stewart-popcorn.gif

Sooo... women are their powerful pals on the left? Are the GOP seriously trying to alienate women that hard?
 
Jilted Husband Says Kissing Congressman Is 'The Most Non-Religious Person I Know'

The husband of the staffer caught kissing Rep. Vance McAllister (R-LA) says that while the congressman ran as a religious man who cherished family values, he wasn't actually religious.

"I know his beliefs. When he ran one of his commercials, he said 'I need your prayers,' and I asked, 'When did you get religious?' He said, 'When I needed votes,'" Heath Peacock, 34, told CNN Tuesday. "He broke out the religious card and he's about the most non-religious person I know."
 
Maybe I'm just cynical, but the equal pay stuff really seems like nothing more than playing politics. To make matters worse the White House has multiple cases of men and women not making the same amount. Every negotiation is different, and I feel like a lot of the equal pay discussion doesn't take experience into account.

What are your views on maternity leave and how it impacts pay, poli-gaf? I'm just curious, I'm not taking a position.
 
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