• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gotchaye

Member
Where did he fail them on it? He didn't not vote for those things. He did something bad in his personal life.

This just seems like a really alien view of US politics. It is just not the case that voters are only interested in having a representative who votes the right way on some set of issues. Voters want representatives who represent them. And this isn't entirely crazy - part of the reason we have representatives at all rather than just doing everything by direct democracy is that the voters aren't supposed to be qualified to come to the right decision on many issues and are instead supposed to appoint people whose judgment they trust and whose values they agree with to make those decisions for them. Hypocritical or otherwise insincere politicians break the system - they take the positions they take so as to signal to voters that they're the right sort of person, but aren't actually guided by these values in making decisions that the voters aren't micromanaging. Or, worse, they might actually be abusing voters' trust to win support for things that the voters really wouldn't support, absent trusted authority figures telling them it's consistent with their values. You can argue that the voters are too easily outraged by minor bits of wrongdoing, but this is a pretty serious wrong in itself and the hypocrisy is especially problematic given the importance of "family values" to the voters.

But you're right that "this isn't an Eich situation". Here it's actually smart to make this guy the poster boy for the anti- SSM movement and to emphasize how judge-y of other people's personal lives the "family values" stuff is.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Maybe I'm just cynical, but the equal pay stuff really seems like nothing more than playing politics. To make matters worse the White House has multiple cases of men and women not making the same amount. Every negotiation is different, and I feel like a lot of the equal pay discussion doesn't take experience into account.

What are your views on maternity leave and how it impacts pay, poli-gaf? I'm just curious, I'm not taking a position.

I would say making data openly accessible makes a real difference on the issue of equal pay. That alone does plenty to make it a lot harder to screw over specific employees based on their race or gender.

As for maternity leave, I think disability insurance is a good way to go to smooth out the costs which is how a lot of states do it. That just leaves the 3-6 month gap of unpaid leave to worry about, which I can't imagine is that terribly impactful in most situations for employers outside of maybe the typical hiring costs for a temp. Some companies might even save money if the leave is timed with a slow period of the year.

Surely there are some situations where the company is really screwed by it, but I don't really know how often that is.
 
This just seems like a really alien view of US politics. It is just not the case that voters are only interested in having a representative who votes the right way on some set of issues. Voters want representatives who represent them. And this isn't entirely crazy - part of the reason we have representatives at all rather than just doing everything by direct democracy is that the voters aren't supposed to be qualified to come to the right decision on many issues and are instead supposed to appoint people whose judgment they trust and whose values they agree with to make those decisions for them. Hypocritical or otherwise insincere politicians break the system - they take the positions they take so as to signal to voters that they're the right sort of person, but aren't actually guided by these values in making decisions that the voters aren't micromanaging. Or, worse, they might actually be abusing voters' trust to win support for things that the voters really wouldn't support, absent trusted authority figures telling them it's consistent with their values. You can argue that the voters are too easily outraged by minor bits of wrongdoing, but this is a pretty serious wrong in itself and the hypocrisy is especially problematic given the importance of "family values" to the voters.

But you're right that "this isn't an Eich situation". Here it's actually smart to make this guy the poster boy for the anti- SSM movement and to emphasize how judge-y of other people's personal lives the "family values" stuff is.

I don't think he abused any trust. I think he didn't live up to his promises which is vastly different. This isn't as I've said doing one thing and saying another (I'll get to the family values part later). this isn't lying for political gain to mislead voters (That CNN report isn't something I'm going to take at face value considering when its coming out). This isn't Larry Craig or a criminal action.

And if the voters did think he did and disagree with me, then come November they will make that know. And I like I've said before just don't see the hypocrisy, is all sex stuff now related?

He had a personal failing. The hand wringing by democrats about the mismatch of family values and his actions screams concern trolling or attempting to put your "family values" and substitute them for his and the voters of the 5th district. Also, why do we have any say? We aren't his constituents. Let his voters speak as they did in the Randal situation

And I disagree that this is a good thing to help the gay marriage push. The campaign on Eich was for his views on gay people and gay marriage. There was a clear link to why that action was pushed he actively was aiding a proposition which was hurting gay couples. There is no link to gay marriage here. He would be pressured to resign not because his biogted views on LGBT Americans but because he cheated on his wife. I don't think pressuring people to resign because of a tangentially related thing is anything other than just a bitter, opportunistic and cynical attack. And will probably put a worse person in the seat. IMO.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but the equal pay stuff really seems like nothing more than playing politics. To make matters worse the White House has multiple cases of men and women not making the same amount. Every negotiation is different, and I feel like a lot of the equal pay discussion doesn't take experience into account.

What are your views on maternity leave and how it impacts pay, poli-gaf? I'm just curious, I'm not taking a position.

The bolded is you just taking GOP talking points and concern trolling.

And I think its absolutely justified to take experience into account when talking about pay. But employers hide behind that and aren't actually taking that into account and just using it to dock pay because they employee doesn't have a very good legal recourse since there are a lot of loopholes in the Equal Pay Act. This bill helps close them.

Why wouldn't they pass this bill? Why does the GOP block it. Ask yourself why would they do such a thing if it didn't hurt their interests.

And I'm not sure of your last question. Maternity leave should be mandatory and so should paternity. Fathers have every right to spend time with their child free from fear they will lose their job.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Because it was the thing I was seeing liberals post about. I just think all these sex scandals are stupid. People shouldn't be concerned about other peoples sex lives. Full stop. the only time I think its relevant is if they are passing anti-gay laws while being in a gay relationship or something.

I'm not defending the guy, what he did was dispicable. He hurt his wife, his family, the women and his husband for nothing. Adultery is a horrible thing. I just think voters and the public has no place in that. I hold that view universally.

The guy is a self proclaimed "Christian conservative". He ran on a platform of "family values" just like every other Republican in congress. He's now asking forgiveness from Jesus for his dalliances. Come on, now.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but the equal pay stuff really seems like nothing more than playing politics. To make matters worse the White House has multiple cases of men and women not making the same amount. Every negotiation is different, and I feel like a lot of the equal pay discussion doesn't take experience into account.

Don't repeat this meme, dude. They're paid low for doing different kind of work. Obama's not paying them less for equal work.
 
The guy is a self proclaimed "Christian conservative". He ran on a platform of "family values" just like every other Republican in congress. He's now asking forgiveness from Jesus for his dalliances. Come on, now.

Me said:
The hand wringing by democrats about the mismatch of family values and his actions screams concern trolling or attempting to put your "family values" and substitute them for his and the voters of the 5th district.

I really think its silly for non-christian voters to pretend to opine on christian values and morality. They're entitled to their opinion but its concern trolling IMO, I don't see sincerity but opportunism. Just the same as all the horrible generalizations that go on in religion threads here. Why do atheists or non-religious pretend to care about fixing doctrinal disputes or claim to know the real true teachings of Jesus/Moses/Muhammad? I don't mean to attack anyone it just a personal quibble I have.
 
Maybe I'm just cynical, but the equal pay stuff really seems like nothing more than playing politics. To make matters worse the White House has multiple cases of men and women not making the same amount. Every negotiation is different, and I feel like a lot of the equal pay discussion doesn't take experience into account..
Well EVERYTHING is merely 'playing politics' right now. Nothing the Congress passes gets through the Senate or President. Nothing the president wants gets through the Congress.

But as long as Obama would really sign a bill that he is asking for Congress to pass, I don't think you can just dismiss it as merely 'playing politics'. It is staking out a policy position that they would like to achieve if possible.


On the other hand . . . the Ryan budget. Would Congress really pass that if they knew it wasn't going to get destroyed by the Senate or vetoed by the President? I don't know. Many people say "No".
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-04-03/does-paul-ryan-really-want-to-pass-a-budget
http://www.usnews.com/news/politics...p-lawmakers-balk-when-spending-cuts-turn-real
 

Crisco

Banned
The gun stuff doesn't even bother me anymore. All recent polling shows the number of gun nuts in this country dwindling. Sure, the ones that remain are buying more guns and ammo then ever, but who cares. We're approaching only 25% of US households with a gun, and that's skewed by a handful of southern states with extremely high gun ownership. Eventually it just won't be an issue worth fighting for the GOP on the national level.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi

Yep. On the upside, my gun friendly friends here in TN say there is strong support among owners for stronger background checks. There is seemingly within the gun community a wave of realization that the few fringe can ruin it for everyone, and they realize that preventing ownership for those with mental issues and criminal backgrounds is better than ruining it for the responsible folk as well.
 
I don't think you're actually talking about concern trolling. Concern trolling is when you pretend to be concerned about something in order to attack it. "Guys I'm really worried about Obama not showing his birth certificate, if he really is from Kenya they won't let him be sworn in!"

Nobody's pretending to care about this guy's... whatever it is they're supposedly concern trolling over. It's about spotlighting hypocrisy.

Also, for goodness sake, when christian morality comes into politics, as it has, of course non-christians should opine on it.

I'm talking about people who are pretending to worry about family values and the feelings of the 5th district voter or Mcallister and in reality really want him to resign for another reason. Their political disagreements with the man.

And I don't think people can't talk about christian morality when in comes into politics but it delves into stupid territory when people start telling Christians what they should believe in (in the sense where they mention what is a greater sin, where the focus should be, etc) or what their religion 'really says' instead of saying 'this has no place in politics or public policy.' Or this is a non-religious argument.

I'm not saying you can't tell a religious person they are homophobic just that it strikes me as weird and annoying for a non-christian or what ever religion to justify that by cherry picking verses from a book they don't believe in.
 

Gotchaye

Member
I'm talking about people who are pretending to worry about family values and the feelings of the 5th district voter or Mcallister and in reality really want him to resign for another reason. Their political disagreements with the man.

And I don't think people can't talk about christian morality when in comes into politics but it delves into stupid territory when people start telling Christians what they should believe in (in the sense where they mention what is a greater sin, where the focus should be, etc) or what their religion 'really says' instead of saying 'this has no place in politics or public policy.' Or this is a non-religious argument.

I'm not saying you can't tell a religious person they are homophobic just that it strikes me as weird and annoying for a non-christian or what ever religion to justify that by cherry picking verses from a book they don't believe in.

Sure, bad arguments from assumptions you disagree with are problematic. But arguments from assumptions you disagree with are a hugely important part of finding common ground with people who aren't 100% with you on an issue. You don't need to convince someone of your entire philosophy in order to convince them to agree with you on some particular policy, if you can instead argue that their existing philosophy commits them to your position on the policy.

All but the most extreme of the anti-gay crowd are committed to not just hating homosexuality as a one-off thing. Their expressed reasons for the positions they take have to do with some broader notions of sexual morality and often with some (unexamined) interpretive framework for reading the Bible. Even though I have pretty deep disagreements with them on these things, I don't see what the problem is with arguing that their behavior towards gay people and adulterers is inconsistent with how bad they think those things are, or arguing that they're the ones cherry-picking Bible verses to make homosexuality out to be uniquely bad. This seems win-win - if I convince them, then they'd agree that I helped them come to a truer understanding of things, and they would be supporting the policy I want them to support. And I'm not being dishonest, since I'm not presenting myself as buying into the assumptions, and I'm not withholding other evidence that seems irrelevant to me but which would matter to them - I think that, for the most part, people's other beliefs really do commit them to tolerance for homosexuality. I can even find plenty of Christians who would wholeheartedly endorse the sorts of arguments I would make.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Honestly, I would be surprised if McAllister faces any negative repercussions whatsoever. We are talking about a base who didn't care what Newt did to his previous wives, as well as a base who voted Mark Sanford into Congress after his affair that he lied about.

As long as he wasn't playing tonsil hockey with a man, he's safe.
 
I'm talking about people who are pretending to worry about family values and the feelings of the 5th district voter or Mcallister and in reality really want him to resign for another reason. Their political disagreements with the man.

And I don't think people can't talk about christian morality when in comes into politics but it delves into stupid territory when people start telling Christians what they should believe in (in the sense where they mention what is a greater sin, where the focus should be, etc) or what their religion 'really says' instead of saying 'this has no place in politics or public policy.' Or this is a non-religious argument.

I'm not saying you can't tell a religious person they are homophobic just that it strikes me as weird and annoying for a non-christian or what ever religion to justify that by cherry picking verses from a book they don't believe in.
Going back to my example . . . the people that critique Al Gore for spewing emissions don't even believe in climate change but they still have a point.
 
What are your views on maternity leave and how it impacts pay, poli-gaf? I'm just curious, I'm not taking a position.

Should be government mandated paid maternity/paternity leave, and they should be equal, and they should be longer than your company currently offers for either.
 
Yesterday's On Point on NPR was painful to listen to...

It had someone on their saying that women in the GOP are doing great, that that Libby Ledbetter (?) act failed, and then it had Bobby Jindal on. Essentially, it was looking at "the new face of the GOP", which is essentially the old face of the GOP, just younger and more ignorant.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/04/08/bobby-jindal-rob-portman-gop-2016-republican-party

On Point is a great show. But the replacements just are not as good as Tom Ashbrook.

And yeah, the GOP keeps talking like they have new ideas but they never say what they are or they turn out to just be the old ideas.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oh.... Oh... Oh.

This is glorious.


Jim DeMint: Federal Gov’t Didn’t End Slavery, Some Guy Named Lincoln Did


Former Senator and current head of the Heritage Foundation Jim DeMint told a radio show last week that the federal government didn’t have all that much to do with ending slavery.

“The reason that the slaves were eventually freed was the Constitution,” DeMint told Vocal Point’s Jerry Newcombe. “It was like the conscience of the American people. Unfortunately there were some court decisions like Dred Scott and others that defined some people as property, but the Constitution kept calling us back to ‘all men are created equal and we have inalienable rights’ in the minds of God.”

“But a lot of the move to free the slaves came from the people, it did not come from the federal government,” DeMint continued. “It came from a growing movement among the people, particularly people of faith, that this was wrong. People like Wilberforce, who persisted for years because of his faith, because of his love for people. So no liberal is going to win a debate that big government freed the slaves. In fact, it was Abraham Lincoln, the very first Republican, who took this on as a cause and a lot of it was based on a love in his heart that comes from God.”

I <3 revisionist history. Republicans of Lincoln's era =/= Republicans of today.
 
Should be government mandated paid maternity/paternity leave, and they should be equal, and they should be longer than your company currently offers for either.
Pretty much. If a company hires an employee, it does not mean he or she is bought as a slave from a trader. This is something old conservative assholes still think to this day, where your employee is your slave. They are not. Employees must be given paid maternity/paternity leaves and the expense should come from the company's coffers.
 
Oh.... Oh... Oh.

This is glorious.


Jim DeMint: Federal Gov’t Didn’t End Slavery, Some Guy Named Lincoln Did




I <3 revisionist history. Republicans of Lincoln's era =/= Republicans of today.

I'm sorry . . . did Jim DeMint have a stroke or something? He does realize that Lincoln was the head of the Federal government, right?

“It came from a growing movement among the people, particularly people of faith, that this was wrong."
This revisionist history also really annoys me. Yes, people of faith were in the anti-slavery movement. But people of faith were pretty much 100% of the pro-slavery movement too! The regularly used the Bible to defend slavery and frankly, they had the better argument! Jesus even talked about the ways slaves should be treated.
 

AntoneM

Member
"but the Constitution kept calling us back to ‘all men are created equal and we have inalienable rights’ in the minds of God.”

Umm, that was the Declaration of Independence Mr. Smart Guy.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I'm talking about people who are pretending to worry about family values and the feelings of the 5th district voter or Mcallister and in reality really want him to resign for another reason. Their political disagreements with the man.

And I don't think people can't talk about christian morality when in comes into politics but it delves into stupid territory when people start telling Christians what they should believe in (in the sense where they mention what is a greater sin, where the focus should be, etc) or what their religion 'really says' instead of saying 'this has no place in politics or public policy.' Or this is a non-religious argument.

I'm not saying you can't tell a religious person they are homophobic just that it strikes me as weird and annoying for a non-christian or what ever religion to justify that by cherry picking verses from a book they don't believe in.

Does it matter if we don't believe in the Bible? I mean, we're not the ones who created the rule about remaining loyal to one's spouse. They themselves are the ones who came up with that! So I don't see anything wrong with using that very same rationale to throw it back in their faces.

Again, under normal circumstances, no one would have given a shit about this guy and I think we'd all agree that a person can do whatever the hell they want (up to a point) in their private lives. But we're dealing with people who pull the "holier than thou" bullshit all the time, so it's totally fair game.

Oh.... Oh... Oh.

This is glorious.


Jim DeMint: Federal Gov&#8217;t Didn&#8217;t End Slavery, Some Guy Named Lincoln Did




I <3 revisionist history. Republicans of Lincoln's era =/= Republicans of today.

So...Lincoln, President of the United States, freed the slaves by NOT using the power of the federal government?

Dear god...the mental gymnastics required for that. Wow.

Umm, that was the Declaration of Independence Mr. Smart Guy.

Dunno how I missed that.
 

dabig2

Member
Such utterly bizzare revisionist history that any junior higher taking a civics class could correct. Lol @ him confusing the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. Btw, here's what the original Constitution had to say in respects to black people:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Yes, that is the infamous 3/5 Compromise.

Moving on, the 13th amendment which really freed the slaves and outlawed slavery was introduced after Lincoln died. The only thing Lincoln did in respect to slavery was making sure it didn't expand to other states and then issuing an executive order that took away the "constitutional rights" of Southern states to use slavery.

Fuck off DeMint. Hopefully we get to see Colbert/Stewart go off on him.
 

Joe Molotov

Member
So...Lincoln, President of the United States, freed the slaves by NOT using the power of the federal government?

Dear god...the mental gymnastics required for that. Wow.

Yeah, he just went out there and physically started grabbing slaves up and carrying them off their plantations with his bare hands. That was one of my favorite scenes from the movie Lincoln. Or maybe it was in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter, I can't remember now.
 
There's a new Iowa Senate poll where Bruce Braley is leading 6-13 points, but there's a lot of undecideds so I don't know how useful it actually is.
 
Such utterly bizzare revisionist history that any junior higher taking a civics class could correct. Lol @ him confusing the Declaration of Independence with the Constitution. Btw, here's what the original Constitution had to say in respects to black people:



Yes, that is the infamous 3/5 Compromise.

Moving on, the 13th amendment which really freed the slaves and outlawed slavery was introduced after Lincoln died. The only thing Lincoln did in respect to slavery was making sure it didn't expand to other states and then issuing an executive order that took away the "constitutional rights" of Southern states to use slavery.

Fuck off DeMint. Hopefully we get to see Colbert/Stewart go off on him.

And remember . . . this is a man that is the head of the most well-known "conservative think tank" . So he should sorta be viewed as their top intellectual thinker (although he is clearly not).
 
It is really fascinating (read: infuriating) to see the conversation about getting more benefits/pay for NCAA athletes mirror that of the conversation around minimum/living wages and welfare. I see the same arguments of them being 'entitled' or that they should be happy to get anything at all because [person against] didn't get those benefits/has student debt and maybe they shouldn't get anything at all to show them how well they have it now. This isn't even the GOP framing the issue, it just seems to be the stock response from a large portion of people to immediately start to demonize those asking for more while simultaneously carrying the water for those on top who continue to profit on the backs of those doing the labor. We seem to love being taken advantage of, as if we thirst for any sort of recognition, be it positive or negative and if we aren't being taken advantage of then perhaps we aren't worthy on some level.

Someone posted a screenshot a few pages back of an ESPN.com poll asking if NCAA athletes should unionize and it was nearly 60% against. How soon people forget that unions are largely responsible for the working conditions/benefits that almost everyone is privy to nowadays but are willing to forget all that because some 'fat-cat union boss' is taking advantage of their position while 'union workers' only work 3 hours a day, get unlimited breaks, and don't have to do any hard work. Essentially strawmen that don't actually exist.

NCAA athletes aren't exactly Oliver Twist asking for some more porridge but I find it sad that our response is "what the hell is wrong with what you already got?!" instead of examining how things could be made better.

Why do so many seemingly hate anyone with the audacity to ask for things to be better?
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Why do so many seemingly hate anyone with the audacity to ask for things to be better?

I think it is partly the assumption that if somebody has things get better, that necessarily means somebody else had things get worse i.e. every improvement is at the expense of somebody else whether it be through taxes, higher prices, less services etc.
 
I think it is partly the assumption that if somebody has things get better, that necessarily means somebody else had things get worse i.e. every improvement is at the expense of somebody else whether it be through taxes, higher prices, less services etc.
So whatever the opposite of "a rising tide lifts all boats" adage is.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
There's a new Iowa Senate poll where Bruce Braley is leading 6-13 points, but there's a lot of undecideds so I don't know how useful it actually is.

It's useful so far as showing that the farmer gaffe doesn't really mean anything, seeing as that's in line with what Braley has been getting for the last few months.
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
I think it is partly the assumption that if somebody has things get better, that necessarily means somebody else had things get worse i.e. every improvement is at the expense of somebody else whether it be through taxes, higher prices, less services etc.

I think it's a combination of bootstrap ideology gone wild and a perversion of the Protestant work ethic. Rugged individualism = good, collectivism = bad, work = good, non-work = bad.
 
Yesterday's On Point on NPR was painful to listen to...

It had someone on their saying that women in the GOP are doing great, that that Libby Ledbetter (?) act failed, and then it had Bobby Jindal on. Essentially, it was looking at "the new face of the GOP", which is essentially the old face of the GOP, just younger and more ignorant.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/04/08/bobby-jindal-rob-portman-gop-2016-republican-party

Listening to this now. Holy shit the GOP is fucked! They've learned nothing NOTHING!
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
So whatever the opposite of "a rising tide lifts all boats" adage is.

The mentality is that a finite total amount of "good/money" exists.

As if one was in a boat and another one was on top of a glacier and global warming slowly melts it. The top guy won't be as high up compared to the water level guy, although still well above.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Why do so many seemingly hate anyone with the audacity to ask for things to be better?

This is just my personal opinion, and other posters have offered good views on it. But I think a lot of people are in denial that things don't have to work the way they used to before. They're so wrapped up in "daddy had to work for his stuff, grandaddy had to work for his stuff" that they view people getting assistance or society deciding that it's wrong to make (healthcare/food) an explicit reward for having a job that they fight against it. "My family had to suffer to get this, everyone else should, if they don't, then my ancestor's suffering was for nothing", basically

When the US has enough manpower, smart people, and technology that tomorrow, we could feed everyone, have free healthcare, and make everyone super-educated, but we're held back by an old man's battle flag. you start to see the absurdity of blindly following an ideology concocted when working meant life or death when you're out on the plains farming on your own. These days, a farmer can be taken to the hospital no matter how remote they are within hours. Nobody is an island anymore.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Oh and another thing about the stupid DeMint screed. He tries to claim that we wound up defeating slavery cause of the constitution. But the constitution itself kept that shit in place! That whole 3/5ths clause thing? Yeah..
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
On Point is a great show. But the replacements just are not as good as Tom Ashbrook.
I cannot agree with this. Tom Ashbrook comes off as a Wolf Blitzer level moron in some interviews and has trouble controlling the flow of conversation. He'll stumble all over himself throwing out hypotheticals without really understanding them, and then cut a guest off just to throw out more.
 
Scott Walker doesn't have a college degree?
http://news.yahoo.com/walker-dodges-lack-degree-170919193--politics.html

I guess that is an advantage in the GOP.

He was a straight D student who also got into a good amount of trouble when he was running for student government and tried to steal all the school newspapers around campus because they endorsed his opponent.

He went to the State Assembly right after dropping out, he's a career politician through and through and I doubt Marquette would let someone who hadn't taken classes in over 25 years to finish their required credit hours.

But he takes orders without asking many questions, so he's perfect for the Republican Party today!
 

Mort

Banned
He was a straight D student who also got into a good amount of trouble when he was running for student government and tried to steal all the school newspapers around campus because they endorsed his opponent.

He went to the State Assembly right after dropping out, he's a career politician through and through and I doubt Marquette would let someone who hadn't taken classes in over 25 years to finish their required credit hours.

But he takes orders without asking many questions, so he's perfect for the Republican Party today!

Wait what?

He actually tried to steal all the school newspapers? Can I get a source for that because that sounds absolutely insane.
 
He was a straight D student who also got into a good amount of trouble when he was running for student government and tried to steal all the school newspapers around campus because they endorsed his opponent.

He went to the State Assembly right after dropping out, he's a career politician through and through and I doubt Marquette would let someone who hadn't taken classes in over 25 years to finish their required credit hours.

But he takes orders without asking many questions, so he's perfect for the Republican Party today!

He can run on his private business experience and foreign policy know-how too.
 
The mentality is that a finite total amount of "good/money" exists.

As if one was in a boat and another one was on top of a glacier and global warming slowly melts it. The top guy won't be as high up compared to the water level guy, although still well above.
Good thing global warming isn't real.

This is just my personal opinion, and other posters have offered good views on it. But I think a lot of people are in denial that things don't have to work the way they used to before. They're so wrapped up in "daddy had to work for his stuff, grandaddy had to work for his stuff" that they view people getting assistance or society deciding that it's wrong to make (healthcare/food) an explicit reward for having a job that they fight against it. "My family had to suffer to get this, everyone else should, if they don't, then my ancestor's suffering was for nothing", basically

When the US has enough manpower, smart people, and technology that tomorrow, we could feed everyone, have free healthcare, and make everyone super-educated, but we're held back by an old man's battle flag. you start to see the absurdity of blindly following an ideology concocted when working meant life or death when you're out on the plains farming on your own. These days, a farmer can be taken to the hospital no matter how remote they are within hours. Nobody is an island anymore.
I agree, don't get me started on how tradition holds back progress. The greatest enemy of the future is the past.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Uh oh. More bad news about Obamacare....for conservatives:

The long-awaited Rand Corp. study of Obamacare’s effect on health insurance coverage was released Tuesday and confirmed the numbers that had been telegraphed for more than a week: At least 9.3 million more Americans have health insurance now than in September 2013, virtually all of them as a result of the law.

That’s a net figure, accommodating all those who lost their individual health insurance because of cancellations. The Rand study confirms other surveys that placed the number of people who lost their old insurance and did not or could not replace it – the focus of an enormous volume of anti-Obamacare rhetoric – at less than 1 million.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/new-aca-data-bolsters-systems-success

Though I have to say, I don't really understand how those numbers make sense. Why are several million more people than the Obama admin reported?
 
Uh oh. More bad news about Obamacare....for conservatives:



http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/new-aca-data-bolsters-systems-success

Though I have to say, I don't really understand how those numbers make sense. Why are several million more people than the Obama admin reported?

Actually the administration has focused on private insurance enrollees. They don't tend to talk much about the success of the Medicaid expansion, however Obama did mention it last week during his speech. That plus young adults on their parents plans and those who signed up for plans directly through insurers=9.3mil number.

It's probably even higher than that, considering this is just a survey and thus has some sample errors. Regardless the GOP is losing if they want to haggle over whether 5 million or 7 million plus have signed up. It's such a short term argument that I'm kind of disappointed in its laziness.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom