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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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Bad news for etc

Arkansas Senate

Mark Pryor (D-inc) 46
Tom Cotton (R) 36

Kentucky Senate

Mitch McConnell (R-inc) 44
Allison Lundergan Grimes (D) 43

Louisiana Senate (multiway primary)

Mary Landrieu (D-inc) 42
Bill Cassidy (R) 18
Paul Hollis (R) 5
Rob Mannes (R) 4

North Carolina Senate

Kay Hagan (D-inc) 42
Thom Tillis (R) 40

Particularly bad news for Bill Kristol anyway because he's already hard at work unskewing dat shit.

PPP Wisconsin governor

Scott Walker (R-inc) 48
Mary Burke (D) 45
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
How in the world is Scott Walker going to get reelected?
 
Well Wisconsin is pretty much the most schizophrenic state in the Union so who knows where this will go. I would be surprised if Walker lost in November though, he's got dat Koch money.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Well, then. I await the Fox News spin on this.

New Records: IRS Targeted Progressive Groups More Extensively Than Tea Party


A series of IRS documents, provided to ThinkProgress under the Freedom of Information Act, appears to contradict the claims by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) and his House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that only Tea Party organizations applying for tax-exempt status “received systematic scrutiny because of their political beliefs.” The 22 “Be On the Look Out” keywords lists, distributed to staff reviewing applications between August 12, 2010 and April 19, 2013, included more explicit references to progressive groups, ACORN successors, and medical marijuana organizations than to Tea Party entities.

IRS_FOIA_Data

The IRS provided the heavily-redacted lists to ThinkProgress, after nearly a year-long search. From the earliest lists through 2012, the “historical” section of the lists encouraged reviewers to watch out for “progressive” groups with names like “blue,” as their requests for 501(c)(3) charitable status might be inappropriate. Their inclusion in this section suggests that the concern predates the initial 2010 list.

Explicit references to “Tea Party,” included in the “emerging issues” section of the lists, also began in August 2010 — but stopped appearing after the May 10, 2011 list. From that point on, the lists instructed agents to flag all political advocacy groups of any stripe. The documents instructed the agents to forward any “organization involved with political, lobbying, or advocacy” applying for 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(4) status be forwarded to “group 7822″ for additional review. Groups under both categories are limited in the amount of of lobbying and political activity each can undertake.

irs_foia-65.jpg


Well, how about that.

Cue right wing bitch fest about the data is made up or some shit. Issa has egg on his face. Again.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Well, then. I await the Fox News spin on this.

New Records: IRS Targeted Progressive Groups More Extensively Than Tea Party




http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/irs_foia-65.jpg

Well, how about that.

Cue right wing bitch fest about the data is made up or some shit. Issa has egg on his face. Again.

We've heard claims like this since almost the beginning of the IRS scandal. The fact that these groups appeared on a list doesn't mean they were targeted like conservative groups were. As I argued nearly a year ago, it makes the scandal worse:

To be sure, many of those of us who've been concerned about the IRS targeting wondered in the past why terms like "Progressive" and "Occupy" weren't treated as terms leading to further scrutiny. Our implication was that, if the IRS weren't motivated by partisan animus, they would have included terms associated with both the left and the right, and not just terms associated with the right. So, at first, this revelation appears to defuse the situation.

However, given what we already knew about groups with the word "Progressive" in their names, this revelation really only raises more questions. If "Progressive" was on the BOLO list just like "Tea Party," why was every single Tea Party application flagged and held up when only a fraction of "Progressive" groups were? To my mind, this information makes the situation look worse, not better. The IRS apparently recognized that "Tea Party" and "Progressive" are equally indicative of substantial campaign intervention (and I continue to maintain that neither is sufficiently indicative to alone justify further scrutiny), yet they only flagged "Tea Party" applications as a class.

So, yes, those of you who have always dismissed our concerns about the IRS may continue to do so, and you may pretend that this further justifies your dismissal. But for those of us who have considered this issue seriously, without partisan blinders on, this only raises more questions.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
We've heard claims like this since almost the beginning of the IRS scandal. The fact that these groups appeared on a list doesn't mean they were targeted like conservative groups were. As I argued nearly a year ago, it makes the scandal worse:

"But for those of us who have considered this issue seriously, without partisan blinders on, this only raises more questions."

Hilarious.

I also see nothing wrong with the IRS, you know, the tax people, scrutinizing anti-tax groups a little more closely for their tax exempt status. Even so, they stopped this practice as soon as the higher ups became aware of it.

How long have republicans been looking into this crap? Anything remotely close to a smoking gun found yet?
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
There is nothing new under the sun.



Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago.

I'm still not understanding what the issue is at this point. ZERO conservative groups had their tax exempt status denied (whereas one or two progressive groups did).

You might say that sure, the IRS didn't deny any right-wing groups, but they still unfairly targeted them. Well, even then I'd assume there was additional scrutiny simply cause after Citizens United, there was suddenly a massive influx of right-wing 501c (or whatever the hell they're called) groups.
 
We've heard claims like this since almost the beginning of the IRS scandal. The fact that these groups appeared on a list doesn't mean they were targeted like conservative groups were. As I argued nearly a year ago, it makes the scandal worse:

And as I said a year ago, assuming arguendo that more conservative groups were held up, that does not mean that conservative groups were targeted. It could just as well mean that conservative groups--especially those using words which were deemed to mark the application as requiring further scrutiny--were applying more. And there is every reason to suspect that to be the case, given the sharp increase of conservative "tea party" activity during the period.

This has from the jump simply been a conservative push for less tax code enforcement.
 

AntoneM

Member
And it was bullshit when Black Mamba said it, too. The division between the 1% and the 99% has principally--though not exclusively--been treated as a division based on income, not wealth. The results of a quick and easy Google search (perhaps the best medicine for failing memories) support this conclusion:

Here's the Chicago Tribune ("The Internal Revenue Service says that in order to qualify for the 1 percent, you had to have an adjusted gross income of at least $343,927 in 2009. That's using the most recent year's figures available." The article later notes parenthetically the necessary net worth to be among the top 1% in wealth). Here's Barron's ("While the report studies all affluent earning more than $100,000 year, I am only going to zero in on the section of the report dealing exclusively with the top 1%, 390 of the 1,268 surveyed that had more than $450,000 in annual income.") Here's a study by Emmanuel Saez from early 2012 ("Top 1% incomes grew by 11.6% while bottom 99% incomes grew only by 0.2%. Hence, the top 1% captured 93% of the income gains in the first year of recovery. Such an uneven recovery can help explain the recent public demonstrations against inequality.") Here's The Economist ("Occupy Wall Street gets a boost from a new report on income distribution"). And again ("The ultra-rich skew that average upwards: admission to the 1% began at $380,000 in 2008. The Congressional Budget Office puts the cut-off lower, at $347,000 in 2007, or $252,000 after subtracting federal taxes and adding back transfers." They also offer, as an alternative measure, the cut-off for the top 1% by wealth). Here's a Gallup poll from late 2011 ("Politically, the wealthiest 1% of Americans -- those in households earning $500,000 or more annually -- are somewhat to the right of the remaining 99%, but more in terms of party identification than self-professed ideology.") Politico reported on the poll here ("Of the country’s top 1 percent — those in households that earn $500,000 or more annually who the Occupy Wall Street movement has been protesting against — 41 percent identify themselves as independents, while 33 percent say they are Republicans and 26 percent are Democrats.")Here's HuffPo, in a piece entitled, "What The 1% Majored In" ("The New York Times recently endeavored to find what the top 1% of earners majored in while in college. Using information from the Census Bureau's 2010 American Community Survey, they found being a pre-med gave you the best chance of joining the financial cream of the crop. Economics came in second. In a surprise twist, zoology cracked the top 5.") Here's Michael Moore, claiming to live "among the 1%." NBC News understood him to be referring to his income, not net worth. Here's CNN ("Think it takes a million bucks to make it into the Top 1% of American taxpayers? Think again. In 2009, it took just $343,927 to join that elite group, according to newly released statistics from the Internal Revenue Service.") And again, in a follow-up a year later ("It doesn't take a million bucks to get into the top 1%. In fact, it took a little less than $370,000 in adjusted gross income in 2010 to make it into this elite group, according to newly released data from the Internal Revenue Service.") Mother Jones demonstrates its lack of sophistication regarding the difference between income and wealth. California's Metropolitan Transportation Commission certainly seemed to believe that being a member of the "top 1%" was a matter of income, rather than wealth. The New York Times agreed ("The range of wealth in the 1 percent is vast — from households that bring in $380,000 a year, according to census data, up to billionaires like Warren E. Buffett and Bill Gates"). (You might recognize the names of the authors of that article--they're the same two that wrote the article you linked to. Even to them, measuring the "1%" by wealth was an afterthought, as it was with most people who considered the question.) Here, the Grio looks into who make up the "black 1 percent" ("The income cutoff to be a part of the top 1 percent was $646,195"). This Guardian op-ed refers to "the top 1% of income earners," and ties this to Occupy Wall Street's slogan. At Wonkblog, Suzy Khimm wanted to know "Who are the 1 percent?" ("Taken literally, the top 1 percent of American households had a minimum income of $516,633 in 2010"), and Ezra Klein wanted to know "Who are the 99 percent?" ("Let’s be clear. This isn’t really the 99 percent. If you’re in the 85th percentile, for instance, your household is making more than $100,000, and you’re probably doing okay. If you’re in the 95th percentile, your household is making more than $150,000").

OWS specifically targeted big banks, hedge funds, etc. (let's collectively call them Wall St., although, cleary when people generally refer to Wal St. they mean the road so it may take some adjusting on your part). OWS, was a movement about the leaders of Wall St. who were outrageously rich and getting richer while the people they screwed over were getting kicked out of their house (let's call these leaders of Wall St. "the one percent", although clearly when people talked about the one percent before OWS it was in reference to income, not people like Steve Jobs).

Do you get it now?
 
Also the new 538 is basically the worst thing ever.

I've pretty much lost all professional respect for Nate. His site is the opposite of what he claimed it would be.

I'll still probably look at his polling but that's about it. You need to have some basis of what these numbers mean and where they come from. Number don't tell a story, they illustrate one.
We've heard claims like this since almost the beginning of the IRS scandal. The fact that these groups appeared on a list doesn't mean they were targeted like conservative groups were. As I argued nearly a year ago, it makes the scandal worse:

How can any one spin a tea party group into anything but a political front? Especially with the influx as others have mentioned. why would any social welfare group use the tea party as an Identifier. Progressive is a much less political word and represents and idea and social goal. Tea party and progressive are not equivalent words to compare.

Conservative should be the word they used if they want to not be scrutinized.

The real scandal here is that there is a scandal about the IRS attempting to enforce the law. all these groups should lose their tax exempt status.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
And as I said a year ago, assuming arguendo that more conservative groups were held up, that does not mean that conservative groups were targeted. It could just as well mean that conservative groups--especially those using words which were deemed to mark the application as requiring further scrutiny--were applying more. And there is every reason to suspect that to be the case, given the sharp increase of conservative "tea party" activity during the period.

We know precisely how many groups with "Tea Party," "Patriot," or "9/12" in their names applied. It was exactly equal to the number of such groups held up. There's no mystery there, and no room for squirming out of the obvious import of that fact.

Your conspiracy-theory version of this scandal remains, as ever, absurd.
 
We know precisely how many groups with "Tea Party," "Patriot," or "9/12" in their names applied. It was exactly equal to the number of such groups held up. There's no mystery there, and no room for squirming out of the obvious import of that fact.

Your conspiracy-theory version of this scandal remains, as ever, absurd.

Why shouldn't those groups be held up?

Same goes for American Bridge, Priorities USA etc etc. they're funnels for rich people not to pay taxes and bribe politicians
 

Wilsongt

Member
We know precisely how many groups with "Tea Party," "Patriot," or "9/12" in their names applied. It was exactly equal to the number of such groups held up. There's no mystery there, and no room for squirming out of the obvious import of that fact.

Your conspiracy-theory version of this scandal remains, as ever, absurd.

I think your stance on the issue is more of a conspiracy theory.

Clearly these groups do have history of being politically active, when they shouldn't be.

In fact, let me give you a very recent example:

http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2014/04/21/hillary-clinton-tax-exemption-revoked/

The Internal Revenue Service has revoked the tax-exempt status of a conservative-aligned charity for engaging in political activity as far back as the 2004 presidential election — including statements opposing Hillary Clinton for president.

The Patrick Henry Center for Individual Liberty, based in Manassas, Va., “has shown a pattern of deliberate and consistent intervention in political campaigns” and made “repeated statements supporting or opposing various candidates by expressing its opinion of the respective candidate’s character and qualifications,” according to a written determination released by the IRS Friday.

Although the name of the group was redacted from the determination, the facts of the case match statements made by the Patrick Henry Center’s founder. A separate IRS notice confirms that the Patrick Henry Center’s tax exemption was revoked in February.

The group’s founder, Gary Aldrich, did not return phone calls and e-mails seeking comment.

Aldrich, a former FBI agent, established the group after publishing a book critical of President Bill Clinton in 1996 — alleging, among other things, that First Lady Hillary Clinton decorated the White House Christmas Tree with crack pipes and condoms. The purpose of the Patrick Henry Center was to represent government whistleblowers, and its first client was Linda Tripp, the Pentagon employee whose recorded phone calls with Monica Lewinsky launched an effort to impeach Clinton.

In 2004, Aldrich wrote an article — posted on the Patrick Henry Center’s website and elsewhere — as part of the “Swift Boat” campaign against Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.


If it walks like a duck, etc.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more

Wilsongt

Member
Remind me: of "Patrick", "Henry", "Center", "for", "Individual", and "Liberty", which word triggered enhanced scrutiny of 501(c)(4) applications?

There has been no evidence that I could find that "liberty" was a red flag.

This organization was around prior to the 2010 - 2013 incident, anyway.
 
I've pretty much lost all professional respect for Nate. His site is the opposite of what he claimed it would be.

I'll still probably look at his polling but that's about it. You need to have some basis of what these numbers mean and where they come from. Number don't tell a story, they illustrate one.
Like how this article (not written by Nate) has no real evidence to back up the claim in the headline?
 
Remind me: of "Patrick", "Henry", "Center", "for", "Individual", and "Liberty", which word triggered enhanced scrutiny of 501(c)(4) applications?

What point does this have? His point was that conservative groups are breaking and skirting the law to not pay taxes.

Why was it wrong for the IRS to flag Tea Party groups?

Like how this article (not written by Nate) has no real evidence to back up the claim in the headline?

Yeah I posted that a few pages back. It was the article that broke the camels back. Its prime example of using stats wrong or at least not adding context. Its a horrible article, horrible. Who takes the electoral college has a whole. Nate doesn't even do that. Its a product of individual states. Look up polling and demographics and its plainly obvious the dems have a build in advantage.
 
We know precisely how many groups with "Tea Party," "Patriot," or "9/12" in their names applied. It was exactly equal to the number of such groups held up. There's no mystery there, and no room for squirming out of the obvious import of that fact.

I don't understand what the obvious import of it is other than that "Tea Party" was a flagged phrase (which I have no problem with).
 
Your sarcasm is misplaced. The study points out that that's exactly what OWS does when it speaks of the 1% as a monolithic bloc. You can ignore the findings if you want, but the way you're trying to do so is intellectually dishonest. Not to mention supremely obnoxious.

Such bullshit. The author tried to ascribe it that way because the author didn't understand the point.

Do you honestly believe OWS was talking about random injections of cash for a single year in one's life versus those who are in the top 1% wealth-wise?

If Buffett loses $2 million this year, OWS no longer thinks of him in the 1%?

And you're accusing me of being obnoxious?

Again, you're missing the point of the article. If it's true that "just because you get a one time injection of $500k doesn't make you affluent," then it's wrong for groups to target "the 1%", because--as the study shows--many of those in that group just "g[o]t a one time injection of $500k."

No, what's going on is there are two different definitions of top 1% and the author is conflating the two terms to confuse the reader.

When I'm in a conversation with someone and I mention the "top 1%," they inherently know I'm talking about Buffet, even if he loses a million this year and not their friend who won a $500k lottery.

Your problem should be with OWS and others who take an unsophisticated view of "the 1%," not with the researchers.

You're trying to argue a technical definition versus what is used colloquially. An argument of semantics and one that in itself is wrong.

Now, I don't mind if the author of a study wants to demonstrate how in a given year people move up and down a yearly income, but the way the article was written mentioned wealth and implied change of social status. That was wrong.

Have you considered that this may be why the researchers whose article I linked to looked at a ten-year period?

They did, and barely mentioned it, but still said people become wealthy in a single year which is fucking bullshit. The entire tone of the article was misleading. That's the issue here. Because it implies changes in social status which is not true.

When people talk about the 1%, there's is a very specific social status that is being discussed and I don't care how much technical bullshit you want to bring into the fray, it's still fucking bullshit. One year income numbers are useless in determining the top 1%. Maybe that will help you understand. THE NUMBERS ARE USELESS.

Your argument is patently ridiculous and most of us here see why. You should too.
 
We've heard claims like this since almost the beginning of the IRS scandal. The fact that these groups appeared on a list doesn't mean they were targeted like conservative groups were. As I argued nearly a year ago, it makes the scandal worse:

And I thoroughly destroyed that argument in that thread over numerous posts.

I refer back to my last comment there.

Again, you have to establish that the conservative groups were either unfairly targeted and/or that liberal groups were unfairly given a pass. Without doing so, I see no reason why it isn't possible that more progressive groups simply didn't raise red flags to the IRS investigators compared to tea party groups.

And again, this makes sense given that the Tea Party was an actual political party founded in 2010 while progressives have been around for a long time and the IRS knows what its looking at with them, more or less.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Such bullshit. The author tried to ascribe it that way because the author didn't understand the point.

Do you honestly believe OWS was talking about random injections of cash for a single year in one's life versus those who are in the top 1% wealth-wise?

If Buffett loses $2 million this year, OWS no longer thinks of him in the 1%?

This revision is even less plausible than your last attempted revision. Tell me, what percentage of income accrued to the "1%," where "1%" doesn't actually mean the entire top percentile in terms of income or wealth, but instead an indefinite subset of that group which includes, at least, Warren Buffett? I'm certain you can find many sources showing the income of the top 1% (as that term is properly understood), and very few--I'd venture to guess none--that provide such information for the subset that you now claim constitutes the "1%." And that's because, until just now, not a single human believed that the "1%" was defined in the way you suggest here.

EDIT:

And I thoroughly destroyed that argument in that thread over numerous posts.

I refer back to my last comment there.

Your definition of "thoroughly destroyed" must be as idiosyncratic as your definition of the "1%." If you're still waiting for evidence that the conservative groups were inappropriately targeted--a year after the IRS, Eric Holder, and Barack Obama admitted that such was the case--then there's no evidence in all the world that could persuade you of the truth of that assertion.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
This revision is even less plausible than your last attempted revision. Tell me, what percentage of income accrued to the "1%," where "1%" doesn't actually mean the entire top percentile in terms of income or wealth, but instead an indefinite subset of that group which includes, at least, Warrent Buffett. I'm certain you can find many sources showing the income of the top 1% (as that term is properly understood), and very few--I'd venture to guess none--that provide such information for the subset that you now claim constitutes the "1%." And that's because, until just now, not a single human believed that the "1%" was defined in the way you suggest here.

Notice how you absolutely refuse to answer my questions?

I'll ask again. Do you honestly believe OWS was talking about random injections of cash for a single year in one's life versus those who are in the top 1% wealth-wise?

When people speak about it colloquially, do we include random injections of cash for a single year of one's life?

EDIT:


Your definition of "thoroughly destroyed" must be as idiosyncratic as your definition of the "1%." If you're still waiting for evidence that the conservative groups were inappropriately targeted--a year after the IRS, Eric Holder, and Barack Obama admitted that such was the case--then there's no evidence in all the world that could persuade you of the truth of that assertion.

Really? Obama reacting almost instantly to the initial report, which has not been properly supported since, is your evidence? Remember, that initial IG report was shown to have major holes.

Usually you make decent arguments from the other side of the pond but today you've gone off the rails.
 
Unless I'm missing something, that poll doesn't filter for likely voters, and therefore it really is worthless as any sort of political metric. I do believe it's accurate and its a damn good indicator of how much democrats suck at getting the vote out, but the polls of likely voters showing the race to be close are obviously the more likely predictors.

It's a bit too early for likely voter polls (though they did measure it).

The poll is probably an outlier but that's fine. Outliers are important too. Outliers do not mean we should throw the poll out (unless its method is faulty, then yes).
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Notice how you absolutely refuse to answer my questions?

I'll ask again. Do you honestly believe OWS was talking about random injections of cash for a single year in one's life versus those who are in the top 1% wealth-wise?

When people speak about it colloquially, do we include random injections of cash for a single year of one's life?

I don't think OWS was talking about random injections of cash for a single year in one's life. I think they thought that the entire 1% consisted of Warren Buffetts and Kochs. The article I provided shows why such an unsophisticated view is wrong.

Now, I've answered your question. Answer mine.

What percentage of income accrued to the "1%," where "1%" doesn't actually mean the entire top percentile in terms of income or wealth, but instead an indefinite subset of that group which includes, at least, Warren Buffett?

Really? Obama reacting almost instantly to the initial report, which has not been properly supported since, is your evidence? Remember, that initial IG report was shown to have major holes.

Remind me what holes in that report have been shown, and we'll proceed from there. And yes, an admission is as good as evidence gets.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
We know precisely how many groups with "Tea Party," "Patriot," or "9/12" in their names applied. It was exactly equal to the number of such groups held up. There's no mystery there, and no room for squirming out of the obvious import of that fact.

Your conspiracy-theory version of this scandal remains, as ever, absurd.

The Tea Party is a political movement wrapped up neatly in a box decorated with a pretty bow and labelled as a social advocacy group, which it can get away with as long as less than 50% of its expenses are political in nature. It's basically a 501(c)(3) except it can do as much political stuff it wants, so long as it can use accounting gimmicks and loopholes to classify those expenses as non-political in nature.

There's a reason they call themselves the Tea Party, and why conservative politicians identified themselves as Tea Party-backed. That was all political in nature.

"Hey, this 501(c)(4) organization... at first glance, it sounds a lot more like a 527 organization... let's make sure they filed properly"

That's all that happened with the IRS.
 

Jooney

Member
This revision is even less plausible than your last attempted revision. Tell me, what percentage of income accrued to the "1%," where "1%" doesn't actually mean the entire top percentile in terms of income or wealth, but instead an indefinite subset of that group which includes, at least, Warrent Buffett? I'm certain you can find many sources showing the income of the top 1% (as that term is properly understood), and very few--I'd venture to guess none--that provide such information for the subset that you now claim constitutes the "1%." And that's because, until just now, not a single human believed that the "1%" was defined in the way you suggest here.

I would absolutely agree with Black Mumba's interpretation of what OWS meant when they coined the 1% term. The fact that Wall Street was in their moniker and the staging ground for the protest reaffirms that their focus was on symbols of accumulated wealth. And what symbolises wealth more than Wall Street?

The protest was also against people who use their heir wealth to manipulate the political system for their benefit. I don't think John Johnson who won a 500k lottery has any real sway on members of congress. But Lloyd Blankfein? Dick Fuld? Jamie Dimon? Yeah, they have some sway, and they're the people who OWS were referring to when they say the 1%. To say otherwise is to engage in semantics.
 
I don't think OWS was talking about random injections of cash for a single year in one's life. I think they thought that the entire 1% consisted of Warren Buffetts and Kochs. The article I provided shows why such an unsophisticated view is wrong.

Because you're confusing colloquial expression with technical data. It doesn't show that the OWS view was unsophisticated. It shows that they understood messaging (well, to a point) and that arguing for the "0.1 percent" doesn't sound good. It's the same as regular people. People will say "1%" when in reality they're referring to the 0.1% or so. It's just easier.

It's why the author's understanding of the expression is incorrect. he's trying to explain why their colloquial expression is wrong by looking at the technical definition but this misses the point. The technical definition is irrelevant. Words only matter to the point that other people understand it.

You yourself admit they weren't taking about that and I'd assume you'd extend that understanding to personal conversation, too. With that being the case, you've admitted why the position of the author was wrong, though you probably didn't realize it.

Now, I've answered your question. Answer mine.

What percentage of income accrued to the "1%," where "1%" doesn't actually mean the entire top percentile in terms of income or wealth, but instead an indefinite subset of that group which includes, at least, Warren Buffett?

Probably the 0.1%, though a "know it when I see it" thing could also apply. And again, it's over much longer time and not one single year. It's accumulated income/wealth over an extended period of time.

Remind me what holes in that report have been shown, and we'll proceed from there. And yes, an admission is as good as evidence gets.

Obama made the admission before any facts were actually known, for political reasons. please.

And we've been through this. He left out the full BOLO list. Furthermore, the IG himself stated in testimony that his report did not claim the IRS targeted conservative groups. He also said it wasn't complete!

To date, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing. Why is Issa still trying to bring people in? Show me what their hearings have shown.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Because you're confusing colloquial expression with technical data. It doesn't show that the OWS view was unsophisticated. It shows that they understood messaging (well, to a point) and that arguing for the "0.1 percent" doesn't sound good. It's the same as regular people. People will say "1%" when in reality they're referring to the 0.1% or so. It's just easier.

It's why the author's understanding of the expression is incorrect. he's trying to explain why their colloquial expression is wrong by looking at the technical definition but this misses the point. The technical definition is irrelevant. Words only matter to the point that other people understand it.

You yourself admit they weren't taking about that and I'd assume you'd extend that understanding to personal conversation, too. With that being the case, you've admitted why the position of the author was wrong, though you probably didn't realize it.



Probably the 0.1%, though a "know it when I see it" thing could also apply. And again, it's over much longer time and not one single year. It's accumulated income/wealth over an extended period of time.



Obama made the admission before any facts were actually known, for political reasons. please.

And we've been through this. He left out the full BOLO list. Furthermore, the IG himself stated in testimony that his report did not claim the IRS targeted conservative groups. He also said it wasn't complete!

To date, there is no evidence of any wrongdoing. Why is Issa still trying to bring people in? Show me what their hearings have shown.

About as much as his benghazi and website gate witchhunt.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
the conservative strategy is to continue to demonize the IRS and connect these "scandals" with the IRS fines imposed by the ACA for not having insurance.

demonize the IRS. Demonize the ACA. Connect the two, paint a narrative of widespread obama corruption and ruining america. Get the sheep to vote them in in 2014. Add Benghazi for 2016, especially if the head of the State Dept at the time and one of obama's lackeys, Hilary Clinton, ends up being the nominee.
 
I mean, Sam Brownback from Kansas said that he would ignore the State Supreme Court if it mandated a minimum funding level for education in the state, so this isn't a new thing with Republican governors.
 
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