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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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pigeon

Banned
The ACA is actually pretty much bribery for insurance companies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9y5-Vo61w

I'd love for her to be more left and prove everybody wrong, but I'm only basing my assumptions on Bill Clinton's presidency.

Sexism!

Bill Clinton was president twenty years ago. Most importantly, he was president before Bill Clinton had been president. Bill's explicit goal was to prove that Democrats could govern by taking on Democratic sacred cows. Hillary won't have this problem. Everybody knows Democrats can govern by now -- they're the only ones who can.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
The problem is who do Dems have? No one besides Hillary and Biden. Who is there to groom?

Cuomo?
John Kerry's revenge?
LOL.

Warren would be their best runner up. She has strong support from within the base of the party, is slowly becoming more and more of a household name, and her biggest policy strength and focus is something that is popular among voters from both parties. And she's really a pretty good politician overall. Her only real problem would be all the banks funding the other guy, which didn't happen in 2008.

I don't know why you're so against her running.

The problem is that I don't think Warren has any interest in foreign policy, from what I can tell. And foreign policy is where the president has the most power/authority. I really don't think she wants the job.

Then again, Obama had no foreign policy credentials at all really before becoming president, and I've ended up liking his handling of it more than I would have expected. My only major gripe is drone expansion, which is still better than all out invasions into Yemen/Pakistan, I suppose, but does more harm than good imo. He's done about as good a job as I could realistically expect from any US president in this regard though.

The most power you get is being able to appoint people to various positions of government. It would be far less likely for Holder to be in a position to say too big to fail when he gets appointed by a president that ran against that. And don't tell me that senate confirmation will block that, since there's basically a 99% chance the democrats will hold the senate in 2016 and I highly doubt democrats would fight back if she won.

She also made a foreign policy lecture a few months ago, saying that we need to care more about foreign civilian casualties. It's not going to be a strength, but she'll easily cut out a space for herself in foreign policy that makes sense. There's also a question about 3 things she'd change as president at 30:42. All 3 she can do as long as the senate democrats don't revolt against her, and I really doubt senate democrats would revolt against a brand new president like that.
 

pigeon

Banned
Warren would be their best runner up. She has strong support from within the base of the party, is slowly becoming more and more of a household name, and her biggest policy strength and focus is something that is popular among voters from both parties. And she's really a pretty good politician overall. Her only real problem would be all the banks funding the other guy, which didn't happen in 2008.

She has no political experience. Way too risky for a presidential candidate. Most candidates have at least ten years of experience running for some kind of office, to make sure they won't say anything absurdly stupid and don't have any secret murders in their past.

Running Warren would be the Democratic equivalent of a Tea Party candidate. Sure, she's not insane like the Tea Party. But she just isn't vetted. Anything could happen.
 

Wilsongt

Member
In more "Republicans are flushing Michigan down the toilet" news:

http://www.freep.com/article/20140622/NEWS06/306220096/



More at the link.

It is absolutely insane. In Michigan, 79% of charter schools are run by for-profit companies. The next highest state is Missouri with 36%. Thanks, GOP!

They want to invest in more Charter schools in SC as opposed to fixing the already failing schools. Just more ways for the rich to get money and say "fuck you" to the poor.
 
It is absolutely insane. In Michigan, 79% of charter schools are run by for-profit companies. The next highest state is Missouri with 36%. Thanks, GOP!

Charter schools NEVER work. It failed in Chile, it is failing in Sweden, and it is failing here. Competition of institutions goes completely against the philosophy of education.

She has no political experience. Way too risky for a presidential candidate. Most candidates have at least ten years of experience running for some kind of office, to make sure they won't say anything absurdly stupid and don't have any secret murders in their past.

Running Warren would be the Democratic equivalent of a Tea Party candidate. Sure, she's not insane like the Tea Party. But she just isn't vetted. Anything could happen.

Pretty much. Unfortunately she's too green to run for president and by the time her horns ripen she will be too old to run.
 
Pretty much. Unfortunately she's too green to run for president and by the time her horns ripen she will be too old to run.
Obama was a US senator for only 2 years before he became the president. I think she will have sufficient experience by 2016. She needs to run to get her feet wet with national media and debates, and also to push everyone in the primaries to the left.
 
Obama was a US senator for only 2 years before he became the president. I think she will have sufficient experience by 2016. She needs to run to get her feet wet with national media and debates, and also to push everyone in the primaries to the left.
US senator for four years. He was also a state senator for i think 8 years

lol Walker

JOBS20G-SUB1_zps8e9d1791.jpg


103068384_WISVOTER22G2-online-2_zps89736975.jpg
 

pigeon

Banned
Obama was a US senator for only 2 years before he became the president. I think she will have sufficient experience by 2016. She needs to run to get her feet wet with national media and debates, and also to push everyone in the primaries to the left.

As Aaron said, Obama started running for office in 1996. By the time he ran for president he had over ten years of experience in five different campaigns.

I'm not saying Warren shouldn't run for the nomination, but I definitely wouldn't vote for her.
 
As Aaron said, Obama started running for office in 1996. By the time he ran for president he had over ten years of experience in five different campaigns.

I'm not saying Warren shouldn't run for the nomination, but I definitely wouldn't vote for her.

Also, as I pointed out in the Hillary thread, Warren would disappoint everybody who wants to vote for her just like Obama did - because both would have to deal with political reality, not just push through whatever us crazy leftists want.
 
Also, as I pointed out in the Hillary thread, Warren would disappoint everybody who wants to vote for her just like Obama did - because both would have to deal with political reality, not just push through whatever us crazy leftists want.

I could see Warren being a Red Herring, just pushing the nominees to the left, but in reality I'd prefer her in the Senate.
 

Aylinato

Member
In more "Republicans are flushing Michigan down the toilet" news:

http://www.freep.com/article/20140622/NEWS06/306220096/



More at the link.

It is absolutely insane. In Michigan, 79% of charter schools are run by for-profit companies. The next highest state is Missouri with 36%. Thanks, GOP!

It's important to note the students coming out of charter schools do worse in college then kids graduating from Detroit Public Schools.



US senator for four years. He was also a state senator for i think 8 years

lol Walker

JOBS20G-SUB1_zps8e9d1791.jpg


103068384_WISVOTER22G2-online-2_zps89736975.jpg


Michigan still lagging in job growth, our gas prices are some of the highest in the nation, education in our state is abysmal, and the only increase in wages will be from minimum wage increases.
 
Also, as I pointed out in the Hillary thread, Warren would disappoint everybody who wants to vote for her just like Obama did - because both would have to deal with political reality, not just push through whatever us crazy leftists want.
tbh I don't think any Democratic administration would be that different from Obama, not even Bernie Sanders. That's not to say there wouldn't be any differences, but given the political realities of the past four years (Republican House blocking everything, Senate minority blocking most everything, conservative majority on the Supreme Court) it's hard to pinpoint anything that might have been accomplished under someone else.

Clinton was able to work with a Republican Congress, but only by focusing on policy like welfare reform that Gingrich directly campaigned on. Given that Republicans' only major policy initiative seems to be "repeal Obamacare," Obama hasn't had much luck there.
 

KingK

Member
In more "Republicans are flushing Michigan down the toilet" news:

http://www.freep.com/article/20140622/NEWS06/306220096/



More at the link.

It is absolutely insane. In Michigan, 79% of charter schools are run by for-profit companies. The next highest state is Missouri with 36%. Thanks, GOP!

That is terrible, wow. I'm going to bring this up next time I encounter someone arguing for charter schools. It could not be more obvious than this that it's just a way to funnel tax dollars towards private profit.

Warren would be their best runner up. She has strong support from within the base of the party, is slowly becoming more and more of a household name, and her biggest policy strength and focus is something that is popular among voters from both parties. And she's really a pretty good politician overall. Her only real problem would be all the banks funding the other guy, which didn't happen in 2008.

I don't know why you're so against her running.



The most power you get is being able to appoint people to various positions of government. It would be far less likely for Holder to be in a position to say too big to fail when he gets appointed by a president that ran against that. And don't tell me that senate confirmation will block that, since there's basically a 99% chance the democrats will hold the senate in 2016 and I highly doubt democrats would fight back if she won.

She also made a foreign policy lecture a few months ago, saying that we need to care more about foreign civilian casualties. It's not going to be a strength, but she'll easily cut out a space for herself in foreign policy that makes sense. There's also a question about 3 things she'd change as president at 30:42. All 3 she can do as long as the senate democrats don't revolt against her, and I really doubt senate democrats would revolt against a brand new president like that.

Obama's first term erased any confidence I had in Senate Democrats. Too many conservatives/red state Dems who make or break their ability to have a majority and demand to be pandered to by the rest of the party. Rural America just has way too much power in congress for anything progressive to come about.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
As Aaron said, Obama started running for office in 1996. By the time he ran for president he had over ten years of experience in five different campaigns.

I'm not saying Warren shouldn't run for the nomination, but I definitely wouldn't vote for her.

He was only ever opposed in his first primary for the Illinois senate. Every other election he was completely unopposed in the primary, and democrats wins the district by default in the general. How does that create experience for running campaigns?

And Warren was very involved with government politics since 1995, though it was all solely on the financial side as a financial lawyer.

It seems really dumb to say 1 state senate primary makes the difference between presidential and not.
 
As Aaron said, Obama started running for office in 1996. By the time he ran for president he had over ten years of experience in five different campaigns.

I'm not saying Warren shouldn't run for the nomination, but I definitely wouldn't vote for her.
By 2016, she will have 4 years of experience in US Senate+consumer advocacy experience which isn't completely terrible. I'm not saying she should win the general election, but I would vote for her in the primaries. We need a firebrand like her to tug all the other contenders to the left.
 

Ecotic

Member
The problem is Elizabeth Warren doesn't want to run for President. I have a friend who works for the Center for American Progress and he told me they could barely convince her to run for the U.S. Senate. He said privately she didn't want to deal with anything that didn't have to deal directly with helping the middle class. The Presidency is just too much that she doesn't want to be involved in; Commander in Chief, foreign policy, running agencies, what to do with the NSA, and such.
 

Crisco

Banned
Hillary is definitely a hold your nose and vote D candidate. The good news is that all the GOP candidates are way worse. The only ones who could challenge her in the general would never make it through the primaries, and the ones who could are unelectable nationally. They know it too. Just like Cain and Palin before them, they are doing it for the publicity and long term income boost.

On top of that, the economy is steadily improving and ACA isn't destroying the health care market, I have no idea what the GOP is going to run on in 2016. Iraq? Benghazi? No way, people don't care. They'll have to go back to their base, and start trumping up fear of minorities, gays, abortion, and gun control. On almost every one of those issues though, the public sides with the progressive/liberal view, the GOP can't run on that stone age shit anymore. They're fucked.
 
Also, as I pointed out in the Hillary thread, Warren would disappoint everybody who wants to vote for her just like Obama did - because both would have to deal with political reality, not just push through whatever us crazy leftists want.

Obama has always been a centrist, even during his senate career. Warren is at least center left.

lol Walker

I really thought that his tax cuts would bring the jobs here, just not with higher wages attached to them.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Also, as I pointed out in the Hillary thread, Warren would disappoint everybody who wants to vote for her just like Obama did - because both would have to deal with political reality, not just push through whatever us crazy leftists want.

Like I said a million times before, it's all about appointments, not legislation. The problem isn't that Obama can't pass progressive legislation, it's that him and his appointees aren't using their powers at all. Things like Eric Holder's too big to fail policies and Tom Wheeler's Net Neutrality policies are things that don't require the senate at all.

Obama's first term erased any confidence I had in Senate Democrats. Too many conservatives/red state Dems who make or break their ability to have a majority and demand to be pandered to by the rest of the party. Rural America just has way too much power in congress for anything progressive to come about.

I guess that mostly depends on how much the Dems hold the senate. If it stays above around 54, I would say it's unlikely for 5 conservative democrats to band around blocking a ton of stuff. If it's directly at 50 then the Lieberman effect might be a problem. How this 2014 election goes will go a long way in how much ability the next president will have in confirming decent people because of that.

As far as the filibuster is concerned, either Republicans are going to have to give up on blocking things so often, or the people are going to become so sick of it, they'll give Dems all the political capital in the world to just end the stupid thing. In a way we're already there, and I think them experimenting with it with confirmations has shown that there isn't really a blow back waiting for them on this. I wouldn't be surprised if getting rid of the filibuster completely will be a big issue in the primary debates on what they'd do different than Obama.
 
Tax cuts have rarely (if ever) brought massive job growth with them, even if we count those that are low wage.
Wait you're telling me the centerpiece of Republican and libertarian economic philosophy is a lie? Harrumph. Next you're going to tell me austerity is a failed method of achieving economic growth!
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
It's important to note the students coming out of charter schools do worse in college then kids graduating from Detroit Public Schools.






Michigan still lagging in job growth, our gas prices are some of the highest in the nation, education in our state is abysmal, and the only increase in wages will be from minimum wage increases.

I am 100% convinced they want to drive away as many people as possible. 10 years ago, the Upper Peninsula seemed like it was locked in a time warp. Now, that stagnatiin has creeped down into northern Michigan as well. The Tea Party has a massive hold in the area.
 
Warren also doesn't have the connections Obama had. Harry Reid told him he should run for president, Nancy Pelosi essentially endorsed him, Daschle gave him his chief of staff in 2005, Goldman Sachs was on board, etc. Warren doesn't have any comparable connections, and with some many Obama folks already on board to help Hillary I don't expect Warren to run.

And I don't think the country needs another idealist who won't be able to get things done and doesn't understand how DC works.
 
Jindal: People Ready For 'Hostile Takeover' Of DC

"I can sense right now a rebellion brewing amongst these United States," Jindal said, "where people are ready for a hostile takeover of Washington, D.C., to preserve the American Dream for our children and grandchildren."

The governor said there was a "silent war" on religious liberty being fought in the U.S. — a country that he said was built on that liberty.

"I am tired of the left. They say they're for tolerance, they say they respect diversity. The reality is this: They respect everybody unless you happen to disagree with them," he said. "The left is trying to silence us and I'm tired of it, I won't take it anymore."

Didn't they try this a few weeks ago? Ten million men marching on Washington? Didn't...about eight people show up?
 

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Bobby Jindal said:
"Are we witnessing right now the most radically, extremely liberal, ideological president of our entire lifetime right here in the United States of America

No. It just seems that way because your party took a giant leap to the right.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I'm not sure how to parse the phrase "hostile takeover" in any way that doesn't make it sound like Jindal's clamoring for a new Civil War.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Look guys. His MAJESTY wants his spoiled kids to work minimum wage jobs so that they can better relate to the common man:

President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama want their children to experience the virtues of hard work at minimum-wage pay.

“I think every kid needs to get a taste of what it’s like to do that real hard work,” Michelle Obama said in an interview with Parade magazine published Friday.

“We are looking for opportunities for them to feel as if going to work and getting a paycheck is not always fun, not always stimulating, not always fair,” President Obama added. “But that’s what most folks go through every single day.”


The sage words from the Obamas come just days before the the White House hosts the Working Families Summit, which is set for Monday. They also come on the heels of a failed effort in the Senate to increase the minimum wage to $10.10, which the president supported. Obama signed an executive order in February that lifted the minimum wage for federal contractors to that amount.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-daughters-get-taste-what-its-do-real-hard-work
 
Jindal: People Ready For 'Hostile Takeover' Of DC



Didn't they try this a few weeks ago? Ten million men marching on Washington? Didn't...about eight people show up?

Decades and decades of violent right wing rhetoric. There's always going to be an ugly fringe on every side of the political realm, but the danger starts when mainstream figures start providing validation for the fringe. The fringe should stay the fringe, where it's irrelevant - it shouldn't be given the spotlight or cosigned.

Today we have Fox News propogating this shit nonstop, and senators/governors/congressman/etc doing it as well. It's disgusting.
 

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
Why does everything Republicans say about liberals and Democrats sound like projection?

This is a rhetorical question.
 
Obama is more conservative than he is liberal. I don't get this argument that he's a socialist. Socialism would be free health care for everyone.
 
Obama is more conservative than he is liberal. I don't get this argument that he's a socialist. Socialism would be free health care for everyone.

Which he supported, then said he was against, then after the bill passed, said we wouldn't get to single payer in one step or something like that.
 
Which he supported, then said he was against, then after the bill passed, said we wouldn't get to single payer in one step or something like that.

Obama was never for Medicare for all. Not the first time he ran nor the second. He did want a "Public Option" which isn't the same as Medicare for all.
 

thefro

Member
Obama was never for Medicare for all. Not the first time he ran nor the second. He did want a "Public Option" which isn't the same as Medicare for all.

That 1996 questionnaire tho

Or that 2003 support:
“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” (applause) “I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”
 
The people that make such arguments are not rational people.

Obama is hardly a liberal.

He wants to keep the status quo on illegal drugs many of which could be helpful to many illnesses.
He wants the min. wage to still be a poverty wage.
He wants the for profit healthcare industry to be in place.
He wants to gather all your private information as he circumvents the constitution. He should be impeached for that.
He wants to drone strike anyone he chooses...American citizens and all.

The list goes on and on...dude is basically no different than Bush. Anyone who is defending Obama and didn't attack Bush or who defended Bush and is now attacking Obama is not living in reality.
 
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