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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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E

Ecotic

Member
Joe Biden's revelation that he doesn't own any stock or have any kind of savings is pretty alarming to me. This is something I've suspected over the years, but I don't think he has much intellectual curiosity towards business, finance, and economics in general. He seems to have a fair amount of cursory knowledge about medicare, social security, and other government programs, enough to perform in a debate against Paul Ryan, but there's a huge difference between just knowing the basics of our safety net and real economic passion and insight and into the world.
 
O

Owzers

Member
Oblivion said:
Reagan isn't loved by Republicans for what he did so much as for what he represents. He's a symbol for all that is right with conservatism. A man who cut taxes, cut spending, curbed the growth of government, who was always principled and never compromised with the enemy, be it foreign or domestic.

Sure, Ronald Reagan might have tripled the national debt. But the REAL Ronald Reagan never did such a thing, and in fact balanced the budget.

Sure, Ronald Reagan might have given amnesty to 3 million illegals, but the REAL Ronald Reagan shot them out of of a canon back into Mexico.

Sure, Ronald Reagan negotiated with terrorists by giving them thousands of missiles, but the REAL Ronald Reagan would merely need to give said terrorists a brief second of stinkeye for them to willfully and unconditionally surrender lest they incur his patriotic wrath.
Click to expand...

They love Reagan like they love Jesus.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Pretty much. Reagan is a myth now, a perfect, Founding Father type symbol the right can heap all praise on. Probably because Reagan was the only popular republican president since the late 1950s. Democrats don't hype Clinton nearly as much, but you do see some "let's go back to the awesome Clinton years" stuff since he was the last democrat president to preside over a good economy.
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How do you think Obama will be remembered as? The great savior of America or greatest?
 
C

Crisco

Banned
It's amazing to me that Obama still enjoys 80+% approval among Democrats. I read nothing but criticism about him from most liberals and progressives. I think when people look back, they'll see that Obama got it right on the big issues. Passed healthcare, ended US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan, ended the Bush tax cuts, and got our energy policy moving in the right direction. He'll also be the President who presided over reduced legal discrimination against gays and expansion of access to legal marijuana, however dubious his contributions to those causes were. Assuming we don't actually reinvade Iraq or another Lehman happen, it'll be fairly easy to look back at his Presidency with rose colored glasses.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Bill and Hillary Clinton have long supported an estate tax to prevent the U.S. from being dominated by inherited wealth. That doesn’t mean they want to pay it.

To reduce the tax pinch, the Clintons are using financial planning strategies befitting the top 1 percent of U.S. households in wealth. These moves, common among multimillionaires, will help shield some of their estate from the tax that now tops out at 40 percent of assets upon death.

The Clintons created residence trusts in 2010 and shifted ownership of their New York house into them in 2011, according to federal financial disclosures and local property records.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...use-trusts-to-limit-estate-tax-they-back.html

Some Republicans are already calling Hillary the Democratic Mitt Romney. lol
 
A

alstein

Member
Crisco said:
It's amazing to me that Obama still enjoys 80+% approval among Democrats. I read nothing but criticism about him from most liberals and progressives. I think when people look back, they'll see that Obama got it right on the big issues. Passed healthcare, ended US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan, ended the Bush tax cuts, and got our energy policy moving in the right direction. He'll also be the President who presided over reduced legal discrimination against gays and expansion of access to legal marijuana, however dubious his contributions to those causes were. Assuming we don't actually reinvade Iraq or another Lehman happen, it'll be fairly easy to look back at his Presidency with rose colored glasses.
Click to expand...

People expected a ton from him, he didn't deliver that, but he has achieved some.

Social liberals have a lot to like about Obama, economic progressives are the ones you hear complaining (such as myself)- bit even there he got the CFPB, which I think will be a bigger accomplishment than Obamacare down the road.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Ecotic said:
Joe Biden's revelation that he doesn't own any stock or have any kind of savings is pretty alarming to me. This is something I've suspected over the years, but I don't think he has much intellectual curiosity towards business, finance, and economics in general. He seems to have a fair amount of cursory knowledge about medicare, social security, and other government programs, enough to perform in a debate against Paul Ryan, but there's a huge difference between just knowing the basics of our safety net and real economic passion and insight and into the world.
Click to expand...
Retirement saving saving in the US has very little to do with business and the intellectual curiosity about it.
I suspect only very few (and very weird) people would actually be passionate about that crap if we didn't have a gun to our heads saying "learn that shit or die a poor person".

I spent time learning about this shit, I invested well and I sit quite comfortably right now, but man, fuck Wall Street for forcing me to spend time on that crap. Yes, I am well aware this is like the least of the complaints one can have about the horrible retirement system we have in the US, but fuck it, if I had the same congressional/VP pension as Biden, I would spend one second on that crap.
 
K

KingK

Member
Crisco said:
It's amazing to me that Obama still enjoys 80+% approval among Democrats. I read nothing but criticism about him from most liberals and progressives. I think when people look back, they'll see that Obama got it right on the big issues. Passed healthcare, ended US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan, ended the Bush tax cuts, and got our energy policy moving in the right direction. He'll also be the President who presided over reduced legal discrimination against gays and expansion of access to legal marijuana, however dubious his contributions to those causes were. Assuming we don't actually reinvade Iraq or another Lehman happen, it'll be fairly easy to look back at his Presidency with rose colored glasses.
Click to expand...

Eh, I think a lot of people (like myself) who like to criticize Obama for not being liberal enough (especially on economic issues) will still answer that they approve if asked for a poll. Realistically, he does have a modest amount of good achievements, and with the opposition he's faced in Congress, I can't see anyone else doing anything significantly differently to advance liberal causes. Then there's also the fact that a lot of registered Democrats are pretty much centrists and Obama represents the center pretty well.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Ecotic said:
Joe Biden's revelation that he doesn't own any stock or have any kind of savings is pretty alarming to me. This is something I've suspected over the years, but I don't think he has much intellectual curiosity towards business, finance, and economics in general. He seems to have a fair amount of cursory knowledge about medicare, social security, and other government programs, enough to perform in a debate against Paul Ryan, but there's a huge difference between just knowing the basics of our safety net and real economic passion and insight and into the world.
Click to expand...

Why would he need to own stock? Dude's got an amazing pension. Also what does one have to do with the other? You can be intellectually curious about economics and all that without owning stock. Shit, half the reason anyone even owns any stock is because it's required for retirement. Lord knows I wouldn't tie any money up in the stock market given the choice.

Chichikov said:
Retirement saving saving in the US has very little to do with business and the intellectual curiosity about it.
I suspect on very few (and very weird) people would actually be passionate about the crap if we didn't have a gun to our heads saying "learn that shit or die a poor person".

I spent time learning about the shit, I invested well and I sit quite comfortably right now, but man, fuck Wall Street for forcing me to spend time on that crap. Yes, I am well aware this is like the least of the complaints one can have about the horrible retirement system we have in the US, but fuck it, if I had the same congressional/VP pension as Biden, I would spend one second on that crap.
Click to expand...

This. Definitely this.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Surprised no one talked about the SC ruling on the EPA's new regulations:

In a two-part decision Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled both against and for the Environmental Protection Agency's regulation of stationary sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the case of Utility Air Regulatory Group v. EPA.

Scott Lemieux at The American Prospect writes that while the ruling unnecessarily restricts the EPA's authority, "the opinion could have been much worse." Indeed it could.

The court ruled 5-4 that the EPA cannot require facilities that are applying for operating or construction permits also to obtain greenhouse gas emissions permits if their only polluting emissions are those gases. But, by 7-2, with extremist Justices Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas in dissent, the court majority stated that industrial plants and other large stationary sources that already must get permits for emissions of other pollutants can also be required to obtain permits for GHG emissions. The chief facilities affected by the EPA rules are oil and gas projects, cement plants and power plants.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...-greenhouse-gas-emissions-the-EPA-mostly-wins

So, it seems like it was mostly good news.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
table-was-the-iraq-war-worth-cost1.jpg

table-was-the-iraq-war-worth-cost2.jpg

table-should-us-remove-troops.jpg

table-support-for-us.jpg


Stupid cut and runner, isolationist, 9/10 mentality Americans. This is only going to embolden Iran, ISIS and bin Laden.
 
P

Piecake

Member
Chichikov said:
Retirement saving saving in the US has very little to do with business and the intellectual curiosity about it.
I suspect only very few (and very weird) people would actually be passionate about that crap if we didn't have a gun to our heads saying "learn that shit or die a poor person".

I spent time learning about this shit, I invested well and I sit quite comfortably right now, but man, fuck Wall Street for forcing me to spend time on that crap. Yes, I am well aware this is like the least of the complaints one can have about the horrible retirement system we have in the US, but fuck it, if I had the same congressional/VP pension as Biden, I would spend one second on that crap.
Click to expand...

Wait, congressmen have pensions? How come I have never heard any republicans clamoring to get rid of those for 401ks?

As for our shitty retirement system, well, I am sure it will become more and more obvious to people when the 401kers begin to retire at an increasing rate.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Oblivion said:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...use-trusts-to-limit-estate-tax-they-back.html

Some Republicans are already calling Hillary the Democratic Mitt Romney. lol
Click to expand...

Meh. The fact that there are estate planning techniques you can use to reduce your estate tax liabilities is a reason to not eliminate them. And the techniques are generally not nefarious. They are things like set up irrevocable trusts, get lots of insurance, give assets away during your life, donate to charity, etc. It is not stuff like putting your money into some offshore tax shelter . . . though the sleazy people will do that.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/24/upshot/24up-scotus-agreement-rates.html?_r=0
JGxk3S5.png


Reminds me: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nanimous-opinions-in-three-low-profile-cases/
With today’s three unanimous opinions, the Court has been unanimous in 41 of the 62 cases decided after argument this term. This means the Court will have been unanimous in a clear majority of cases decided this term no matter what happens next week. This will be the first time the Court has been unanimous in a majority of argued cases in quite some time. And even were the Court to split 5-4 in all of the remaining cases, this would account for only one-quarter of the Court’s decisions from this term.
Click to expand...
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/inside-the-vast-liberal-conspiracy-108171.html
Picture this: millionaires and billionaires gathering under tight security in fancy hotels with powerful politicians and operatives to plot how their network of secret-money groups can engineer a permanent realignment of American politics.

Only, it’s not the Koch brothers. It’s the liberal Democracy Alliance.

The 21 groups at the core of the Democracy Alliance’s portfolio intend to spend $374 million during the midterm election cycle — including nearly $200 million this year — to boost liberal candidates and causes in 2014 and beyond, according to internal documents obtained by POLITICO.

While growing sums of that cash are being spent vilifying the billionaire conservative industrialists Charles and David Koch over their own network’s political spending, the documents reveal the extent to which the Democracy Alliance network mirrors the Kochs’ — and is obsessed with it.

“Conservatives, particularly the Koch Brothers, are playing for keeps with an even more pronounced financial advantages than in recent election cycles,” reads the introduction to a 62-page briefing book provided to donors ahead of April’s annual spring meeting of the DA, as the club is known, at Chicago’s tony Ritz-Carlton hotel.

The briefing book reveals a sort of DA-funded extra-party political machine that includes sophisticated voter databases and plans to mobilize pivotal Democratic voting blocs, air ads boosting Democratic candidates, while also — perhaps ironically — working to reduce the influence of money in politics.

...

It makes public for the first time details of the complete organizational flowchart of the big-money left, including up-to-date budget figures and forecasts, program goals and performance assessments for the 21 core DA groups, including the Center for American Progress, Media Matters, America Votes and the Obama-linked Organizing for Action.

It also includes a “Progressive Infrastructure Map,” with 172 other groups to which the DA recommends that its rich liberal members — including billionaire financier George Soros and Houston trial lawyers Amber and Steve Mostyn — donate.

...

But the prospect of such scrutiny being directed back at the DA was enough of a concern that the group distributed a memo to board members ahead of its Chicago meeting including suggested responses to questions about the club’s secretive rules and closed-press policy, as well as photos of reporters who it was feared might crash the Ritz shindig.

“The truth is political strategists and funders frequently gather to discuss their plans without inviting reporters to listen in,” said DA spokeswoman Stephanie Mueller. “The Democracy Alliance was organized to provide a forum for people with a shared set of principles to coordinate their resources more efficiently and effectively to achieve their common goals – it doesn’t represent a single industry or family, and doesn’t give money directly to organizations.”

...

When Freedom Partners convened the Koch donor network for its semi-annual seminar last week at the St. Regis in Dana Point, California, it bought out all the rooms at the hotel, and security ushered reporters off the premises.

“High levels of security, concealment, deception and oaths of silence — that doesn’t sound anything like a typical conference,” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Thursday in his latest speech from the Senate floor condemning the Kochs. “It sounds more like a cult. But instead of being a religious movement or a secret sect, this is a cult of money, influence and self-serving politics. This is the cult of Koch.”

Yet Reid’s colleagues and allies up to and including Vice President Joe Biden have attended DA meetings, which can be similarly secretive. Though reporters aren’t always barred from them entirely, they aren’t exactly made to feel welcome, either.

DA board members were warned before the meeting in Chicago that reporters might stake out the meeting and were given a list of about 20 journalists — including photos — to watch out for. POLITICO obtained the list, which included four of its own journalists, including this reporter, as well as Jennifer Haberkorn, Tarini Parti and Byron Tau.
Click to expand...
• Voter data: Soros and other DA backers laid the seed money in 2005 for the for-profit company Catalist, which pioneered the privatization of political data. Late last year, he committed an additional $2.25 million to Catalist, which is now seen within the tech community as lagging behind other Democratic outfits, though the DA briefing boasts that “conservatives are investing heavily to catch up in this area, using Catalist as a model.” Koch-related nonprofits have poured at least $24 million into Themis, a voter database now considered the class of the conservative data universe.
• Hispanic voter outreach: The DA in the 2014 cycle expects to steer $3.9 million from its donors (out of a total $6.2 million budget) to the Latino Engagement Fund, which is working with other groups to register 250,000 new voters in eight key states, while Freedom Partners in 2012 donated $3.1 million to the LIBRE Initiative, which has aired anti-Obamacare ads targeting Latino voters.
• Millennial outreach: The DA expects to steer $1.7 million to the Youth Engagement Fund, which aims to register 200,000 voters in nine key states and to “conduct millennial polling research to craft effective messaging that demonstrably improves organizations’ ability to engage and mobilize young people.” Freedom Partners in 2012 donated $5 million to Generation Opportunity, which has spent heavily on ads and other outreach urging young voters to oppose Democratic politicians and policies.
• Women voter outreach: The DA expects its donors to give $2 million to the Women’s Equality Center, which plans to push to “increase turnout among low-propensity women voters in the 2014 elections in 10 states,” according to the briefing, while Freedom Partners in 2012 gave $8.2 million to Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee, which pushes to elevate conservative social issues.
• Ground organizing: DA partners have donated at least $1.87 million to Organizing for Action, the nonprofit created to mobilize activists to support Obama’s agenda, which appears on pace to meet a $19 million 2014 fundraising goal. Americans for Prosperity, the most aggressive political group in the Koch network, plans a 2014 budget of more than $125 million, which will be spent on everything from ground organizing to television ads bashing Democrats.
• Judicial advocacy: The DA predicts its partners will provide $1.5 million of the projected $4.7 million 2014 budget of the American Constitution Society, which last year helped get “five members of ACS network confirmed to federal bench, including three of four new D.C. circuit members,” according to the DA briefing. The Federalist Society, which advocates on conservative judicial issues, since 2010 has received $3.4 million in grants from foundations associated with donors in the Koch network.
Click to expand...
 
A

alstein

Member
Ecotic said:
Joe Biden's revelation that he doesn't own any stock or have any kind of savings is pretty alarming to me. This is something I've suspected over the years, but I don't think he has much intellectual curiosity towards business, finance, and economics in general. He seems to have a fair amount of cursory knowledge about medicare, social security, and other government programs, enough to perform in a debate against Paul Ryan, but there's a huge difference between just knowing the basics of our safety net and real economic passion and insight and into the world.
Click to expand...

It's owned through his wife. He's just using some semantics.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Drakeon said:
Has it been mentioned Christie is involved in yet another Bridge scandal? This time it's involving the Pulaski skyway. Link.
Click to expand...

Article said:
The inquiries into securities law violations focus on a period of 2010 and 2011 when Gov. Chris Christie’s administration pressed the Port Authority to pay for extensive repairs to the Skyway and related road projects, diverting money that was to be used on a new Hudson River rail tunnel that Mr. Christie canceled in October 2010.

Again and again, Port Authority lawyers warned against the move: The Pulaski Skyway, they noted, is owned and operated by the state, putting it outside the agency’s purview, according to dozens of memos and emails reviewed by investigators and obtained by The New York Times.
Click to expand...

I've made the case several times before that Christie is an asshat for cancelling the the ARC tunnel project.

My guess is that either he or some of his associates profited directly from that Pulaski Skyway project whereas he had no chance to profit from the ARC tunnel started under his predecessor.

Had he not cancelled that ARC tunnel project and bungled the federal Race to the Top application, I'd bet that unemployment in NJ would be much better right now. He was too shortsighted in the profits and politics to make smart moves for his career; the exact opposite of someone like Obama or Hillary who works to build up long term political capital through smart decision making.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
Drakeon said:
Has it been mentioned Christie is involved in yet another Bridge scandal? This time it's involving the Pulaski skyway.
Click to expand...
CharlieDigital said:
My guess is that either he or some of his associates profited directly from that Pulaski Skyway project whereas he had no chance to profit from the ARC tunnel started under his predecessor.
Click to expand...
Why is New Jersey naming a project after the doctor from the second season of TNG?
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
bonercop said:
California just became the second state to call for that convention to get money out of politics!
Click to expand...

Stump said in the other thread that he doesn't see any contentious constitutional amendment passing in the near or mid term future. And I agree mostly. My concern though is that this is really more of a long term thing, and that the constitution has become effectively unamendable because everything in politics seems to be contentious because it politically must be and not because it actually is.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
kehs said:
panel: Why did this happen in 2011!

witness: ...Uh I wasnt there then


...
Click to expand...

Panel: Why did the IRS hire you right after the scandal broke? What was your purpose? Why do you work with the white house now? ANSWER ME! STOP BEING A HOSTILE WITNESS. YES OR NO ANSWERS ONRY!
 
O

Owzers

Member
irs hearings are to lois lerner emails as the benghazi hearings are to the talking points.

she's tanking when she can't say the names of those she worked with. Who said hi to you in the morning?
 
K

kehs

Banned
At the very least, there seems to be an underlying theme from everyone of "holy shit the computer infrastructure is this stupid?"
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
RustyNails said:
Like me and others repeatedly said, bridgegate is tip of the iceberg. Christie has a closet overfilled with skeletons.
Click to expand...
Nah man, Christie will weather this, so will Walker, and they'll run together and beat Hillary who will have been brought down because of Obummer's approval ratings

Bad news for Kay Hagan
 
E

Ecotic

Member
Chichikov said:
Retirement saving saving in the US has very little to do with business and the intellectual curiosity about it.
I suspect only very few (and very weird) people would actually be passionate about that crap if we didn't have a gun to our heads saying "learn that shit or die a poor person".

I spent time learning about this shit, I invested well and I sit quite comfortably right now, but man, fuck Wall Street for forcing me to spend time on that crap. Yes, I am well aware this is like the least of the complaints one can have about the horrible retirement system we have in the US, but fuck it, if I had the same congressional/VP pension as Biden, I would spend one second on that crap.
Click to expand...

B-Dubs said:
Why would he need to own stock? Dude's got an amazing pension. Also what does one have to do with the other? You can be intellectually curious about economics and all that without owning stock. Shit, half the reason anyone even owns any stock is because it's required for retirement. Lord knows I wouldn't tie any money up in the stock market given the choice.
Click to expand...

In my opinion I think you two are missing something critical here about what makes the world turn. What really defines a nation's strength now is its industries, its workforce, its comparative advantages, its economic soft power, it's what makes the difference between Japan and the Philippines. You absolutely need to be consumed with a working knowledge of America's economic strengths and weaknesses in this era and to be constantly advancing a vision for how to compete in a globalized economy if you want to be President. Having a real passion for business news, finance, and economics can give you a huge knowledge of America's past successes, its failures, and give you a vision going forward for each of America's regions and as a whole, such as knowing what industries are suited to which region and what policies help foster it, knowing what infrastructure needs are holding a region back, knowing what industries are suffering from educational deficiencies that are keeping a region from having full employment. Not having knowledge like this leaves you with a titanic hole in your knowledge base. It's not enough now to be a President in the mold of George H.W. Bush who'd really rather not care about anything economically.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Ecotic said:
In my opinion I think you two are missing something critical here about what makes the world turn. What really defines a nation's strength now is its industries, its workforce, its comparative advantages, its economic soft power, it's what makes the difference between Japan and the Philippines. You absolutely need to be consumed with a working knowledge of America's economic strengths and weaknesses in this era and to be constantly advancing a vision for how to compete in a globalized economy if you want to be President. Having a real passion for business news, finance, and economics can give you a huge knowledge of America's past successes, its failures, and give you a vision going forward for each of America's regions and as a whole, such as knowing what industries are suited to which region and what policies help foster it, knowing what infrastructure needs are holding a region back, knowing what industries are suffering from educational deficiencies that are keeping a region from having full employment. Not having knowledge like this leaves you with a titanic hole in your knowledge base. It's not enough now to be a President in the mold of George H.W. Bush who'd really rather not care about anything economically.
Click to expand...

You are implying that owning stock translates into this, which it completely doesn't. I think you are operating under a false assumption. You can absolutely have interest in these things, you can have knowledge about these things, without owning any stock. You can own stock and be completely uninformed about these issues, just as you can be informed about these issues without owning stock. The two are not mutually exclusive. That's what I'm saying, which you didn't seem to get.
 
O

Owzers

Member
i had to turn off Morning Joe today after they got done stroking thy name of Christie. Why is a story about Christie possibly abusing his power on the front page of the new york times when they should be writing about the irs scandal! The IRS SCANDAL!
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Ecotic said:
In my opinion I think you two are missing something critical here about what makes the world turn. What really defines a nation's strength now is its industries, its workforce, its comparative advantages, its economic soft power, it's what makes the difference between Japan and the Philippines. You absolutely need to be consumed with a working knowledge of America's economic strengths and weaknesses in this era and to be constantly advancing a vision for how to compete in a globalized economy if you want to be President. Having a real passion for business news, finance, and economics can give you a huge knowledge of America's past successes, its failures, and give you a vision going forward for each of America's regions and as a whole, such as knowing what industries are suited to which region and what policies help foster it, knowing what infrastructure needs are holding a region back, knowing what industries are suffering from educational deficiencies that are keeping a region from having full employment. Not having knowledge like this leaves you with a titanic hole in your knowledge base. It's not enough now to be a President in the mold of George H.W. Bush who'd really rather not care about anything economically.
Click to expand...

I really don't think this is true at all, mainly because I don't think people who are passionate for business news and finance have any real understanding of the American economy. Business news and finance is heavily slanted towards a worldview in which business news and finance are net benefits to society that deserve to exist. This is not an uncommon worldview, but I think that the evidence of the American economy in the last fifty years generally suggests that it's not an accurate one.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Trey Gowdy offered up the possibility that there might have been a conspiracy at the IRS to make teabagger groups sad that didn't involve the White House.

So who's orders was Lois Lerner acting on?
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Oblivion said:
Trey Gowdy offered up the possibility that there might have been a conspiracy at the IRS to make teabagger groups sad that didn't involve the White House.

So who's orders was Lois Lerner acting on?
Click to expand...

These people are fucking nuts. Who are they listening to to come up with these ideas?
 
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