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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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benjipwns

Banned
No its really not.
True, Wilson never recanted and then extensively argued against segregation but he had a fucking stroke, I'll give the guy a further pass. It's still pretty worthless to bring up in the face of the rest of his work, especially as some kind of attempt for No True Scotsmanning him.
 
True, Wilson never recanted and then extensively argued against segregation but he had a fucking stroke, I'll give the guy a further pass. It's still pretty worthless to bring up in the face of the rest of his work, especially as some kind of attempt for No True Scotsmanning him.

Its not 'no true scotsman' its 'there is no such thing as a Scotsman, stop pretending you are one'
 

benjipwns

Banned
So your position is that there's no such thing as a libertarian or business conservative or anything else Pew worked on in their typology exercise? They really did waste their time then didn't they.

Because otherwise I don't understand this "one drop" rule being used.
 
So your position is that there's no such thing as a libertarian or business conservative or anything else Pew worked on in their typology exercise? They really did waste their time then didn't they.

Because otherwise I don't understand this "one drop" rule being used.

There is no such thing as a libertarian.
 
There is no such thing as a libertarian.

Well, I think there are a couple of crazy people who are truly isolationist, want all local control, gay marriage/abortion to be legal, and so on. But, it's like acting like there's a "socialist" movement because young people are slightly more in favor of government involvement in the population.

Most libertarians are white people who want low taxes, but ya' know, stop shooting black people (but don't give them welfare) and crapping on gay people too.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Plus his thought is bulletproof:
In this body of work and method and approach, in the new synthesis brought forward by Bob Avakian, there is an analogy to what was done by Marx at the beginning of the communist movement—establishing in the new conditions that exist, after the end of the first stage of the communist revolution, a theoretical framework for the renewed advance of that revolution. But today, and with this new synthesis, it is most emphatically not a matter of “back to the drawing board,” as if what is called for is throwing out both the historical experience of the communist movement and the socialist societies it brought into being and “the rich body of revolutionary scientific theory” that developed through this first wave. That would represent an unscientific, and in fact a reactionary, approach. Rather, what is required—and what Avakian has undertaken—is building on all that has gone before, theoretically and practically, drawing the positive and the negative lessons from this, and raising this to a new, higher level of synthesis.
...
This has often been accompanied by narrow, pragmatic, and positivist outlooks and approaches—which restrict what is relevant, or what can be determined (or is declared) to be true, to what relates to immediate experiences and struggles in which the masses of people are involved, and to the immediate objectives of the socialist state and its leading party, at any given time. This, in turn, has gone along with tendencies—which were a marked element in the Soviet Union but also in China when it was socialist—toward the notion of “class truth,” which in fact is opposed to the scientific understanding that truth is objective, does not vary in accordance with differing class interests, and is not dependent on which class outlook one brings to the pursuit of the truth. The scientific outlook and method of communism—if it is correctly taken up and applied, as a living science and not as a dogma—provides, in an overall sense, the most consistent, systematic, and comprehensive means for arriving at the truth, but that is not the same thing as saying that truth itself has a class character, or that communists are bound to arrive at the truth with regard to particular phenomena, while people who do not apply, or who even oppose, the communist outlook and method are not capable of arriving at important truths. Such views of “class truth,” which have existed to varying degrees and in various forms in the communist movement, are reductionist and vulgar materialist and run counter to the actual scientific viewpoint and method of dialectical materialism.
...
This new synthesis, in its many crucial dimensions (which we have only been able to briefly touch on here) has put revolution and communism on a more solid scientific foundation. As Avakian himself has emphasized:

It is very important not to underestimate the significance and potential positive force of this new synthesis: criticizing and rupturing with significant errors and shortcomings while bringing forward and recasting what has been positive from the historical experience of the international communist movements and the socialist countries that have so far existed; in a real sense reviving—on a new, more advanced basis—the viability and, yes, the desirability of a whole new and radically different world, and placing this on an ever firmer foundation of materialism and dialectics....

So, we should not underestimate the potential of this as a source of hope and of daring on a solid scientific foundation

He even has tips for Tim Tebow: http://www.revcom.us/a/258/tips-for-tim-tebow-en.html
 

Jooney

Member
Libertarians are people who want limited government, but what it's "limited" to differs from person to person. That variance is to be expected, unless you believe people who self-ascribe themselves to a particular philosophy march in lockstep on every position.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Plus his thought is bulletproof:


He even has tips for Tim Tebow: http://www.revcom.us/a/258/tips-for-tim-tebow-en.html

fH83mzD.png
 

benjipwns

Banned
Libertarians are people who want limited government, but what it's "limited" to differs from person to person. That variance is to be expected, unless you believe people who self-ascribe themselves to a particular philosophy march in lockstep on every position.
I don't think that works as defining the different philosophies as all of them except some explicitly totalitarian ones (like Hobbes outlines) want to limit government's powers in some manner. Even Marx while explaining how there will be an absolute dictatorship that uses force to crush class enemies then went on to describe how after this the state will just wither away since it has nothing else to do. (Unlike those stupid Utopian Socialists who reject science.) So there would only be a temporary period of non limited government.

So it's more of a sliding scale of degrees, libertarians are liberals taken almost to the logical conclusion but stopping shy of anarchism for one reason or another. The non-aggression principle is almost a unifying principle, but the less limited philosophies long ago found the "loophole" where you just define everything as having the agency to perform aggression so all your "self-defense" is justified and doesn't infringe.

But I agree that there's no lockstep to be found, instead it's more of a ballpark figure estimate.
 

kehs

Banned
Why is the US still a country where people need to have donations for their cancer surgeries?


I'm so sick of this shit.
 
Why is the US still a country where people need to have donations for their cancer surgeries?


I'm so sick of this shit.

Because a poor person might receive better care than a middle class person, and as we all know, if poor people get more than they deserve, they become lazy and shiftless.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Wesley Lowery's twitter said:
At one point tonight, Michael Brown protesters chanted "hands up, don't shoot!"

Darren Wilson supporters responded: "Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!"

Post racial America, indeed.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
lol:

Fox has peddled every allegation of wrongdoing by Mike Brown from the beginning of the story. On Fox and Friends Monday morning, Linda Chavez argued that the media should stop calling the teenager “unarmed” because “we’re talking about an 18-year-old man who is 6-foot-4 and weighs almost 300 pounds, who is videotaped just moments before the confrontation with a police officer strong-arming an employee and robbing a convenience store.”

So Mike Brown can’t be considered unarmed because … he had arms?
 
But I wonder how many Wilson supporters actually think he's innocent compared to how many think the police brutality was justified because Brown was black.
 
That variance is to be expected, unless you believe people who self-ascribe themselves to a particular philosophy march in lockstep on every position.

They may not, but their potential elected officials will. That's why "party lines" is such a common phrase. You can't be a republican who's Pro-Choice or approves of Obamacare.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Sheriff Joe's fundraising pitch:
Our country is under attack.

And Barack Obama is the aggressor. That’s right. Our own President has overseen the release of thousands of illegal immigrants…hundreds of whom are convicted criminals – even felons, which are flooding into America.

Every day you read the newspaper or turn on the news, there is something tragic happening, something Obama says is beyond our control.

But I must tell you: the state of the U.S. – Mexican border IS NOT BEYOND OUR CONTROL. In fact, it’s one of the key places where the safety of our nation starts. AND I am working around the clock to take criminals off the streets. Will you support my reelection campaign with a $15 or more donation right now?

Every action Obama has taken since the border crisis began has led to an increase in the flood of men, women, children, AND CRIMINALS! The icing on the cake…Obama’s solution is holding events at the White House “honoring young adults who came to this country illegally.”

HE IS REWARDING CRIMINALS! We are arresting them just to have the Obama administration release them the next day!

Over the past seven months, I have compiled the statistics of over 3,000 inmates in my jail for various crimes that are here illegally. Over 36% of these illegals come back many times after they are turned over to the federal government for deportation.

But if they’re coming back at such an alarming rate, either our border is so porous or the federal government is releasing them out the back door. Either way is unacceptable! I have written every month to the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security about this and just last week I sent a letter to the Inspector General’s office asking for an investigation. You know what I got back? Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Even the mainstream media is completely ignoring this problem.

If we lose control over our own borders and the rule of law no longer matters in the courts, then I fear our great American experiment will draw to a close. In Arizona alone, more than 1,000 illegal immigrants are being dropped off at bus stations in Phoenix and Tucson alone. We now have U.S. Border Patrol agents moving illegal immigrants from one city to another in our United States.
 
Wow. The GOP is really screwing up. Perhaps it is the Tea party influence and people are not liking the Tea party.

But in mid-term election with much of the world falling apart and people (unfairly IMHO) thinking the economy is in bad shape, the GOP should be doing great. But it seems pretty even. The GOP just has nothing to offer but the same old social conservative bullshit and obstructionism. That works for a sizeable minority of the country but it is not a big seller to the masses.
 

Crisco

Banned
At the end of the day, it's about who do you blame. As bad as Obama's approval ratings have been, Congress's is much much worse, and it's mostly due to GOP obstructionism.
 
Sheriff Joe's fundraising pitch:

Every action Obama has taken since the border crisis began has led to an increase in the flood of men, women, children, AND CRIMINALS! The icing on the cake…Obama’s solution is holding events at the White House “honoring young adults who came to this country illegally.”

HE IS REWARDING CRIMINALS!
We are arresting them just to have the Obama administration release them the next day!

If we assume that Obama is holding events honoring people that came to this country as children (lets say, under 12), calling them criminals is ridiculous. They were brought by others and thus did not intentionally commit the acts. Further, they are children and thus lack the means rea for such a 'criminal' act.

I understand the anti-immigration view on the right but it is kinda disgusting when they push it so far that they are outright lying about things.
 

benjipwns

Banned
This is the only recent poll I could find on why people are against/voting regarding Congress

NBC/WSJ
Q13 Will your vote for Congress this November be a vote to send a message that we need... (ROTATE :1-2) +

More Republicans to be a check and balance to Barack Obama and Congressional Democrats ...........
Total: 22%
D: 5
I: 16
R: 43
More Democrats who will help Barack Obama and Congressional Democrats pass their agenda .........
Total: 24%
D: 51
I: 9
R: 2
More incumbents of both parties to lose so Congress has a lot of new people.........................................
Total: 33%
D: 24
I: 43
R: 38
I would want my vote to send a different message than these ...................................................................
Total: 20%
D: 18
I: 29
R: 17

And I guess this from CBS:
Issues: Which Party Will Do a Better Job On…?

Republican Democratic
National security 46% 33
The economy 41% 42
Immigration 38% 41
Sharing your values 38% 45

And from Reason/Rupe because it's fun:
59. In just a few words, how would you define
socialism?
• Government Control...................................20%
• Equality/Sharing ...........................................8%
• Govt Taking Care of/Helping People.............7%
• Redistribution/Makers v Takers/Handouts...7%
• Working Together/For the People ................3%
• Being Social/Getting Along...........................3%
• Communism/Similar to ................................2%
• Associated w/ Leaders/Dictator ...................2%
• To Each According to Needs/Capacity ..........1%
• Govt Control of Health Care .........................1%
• Favor it/It Works...........................................2%
• Against It/Doesn’t Work ...............................9%
• Other............................................................5%
• Don’t Know What Socialism Is....................25%
• Refused.........................................................2%
• Total..........................................................100%
67. Thinking about your overall political philosophy,
would you describe yourself as:
• Conservative...............................................31%
• Moderate....................................................25%
• Liberal.........................................................18%
• Libertarian ....................................................5%
• Progressive ...................................................7%
• Or something else? ......................................9%
• Don’t Know/Refused ....................................4%
• Total..........................................................100%
 

teiresias

Member
Issues: Which Party Will Do a Better Job On…?

Republican Democratic
National security 46% 33
The economy 41% 42
Immigration 38% 41
Sharing your values 38% 45

National Security doesn't surprise me, economy doesn't surprise me, Immigration surprises me in how close it is actually, but the sharing your values figure is pretty surprising to me. I guess the social war is really starting to take its toll on the GOP in this regard.
 
What's considered progressive vs liberal?

Anytime I see someone distinguish the two, it's a question of not purity but...sincerity. Like, someone can be a liberal but it's too believable or is beholden to certain interests. A progressive, though, is free from such influences and always looks to push the leftist position.
 
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