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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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The market is quite confused at the moment. There are all sorts of world geopolitical events happening (Russia/Ukraine/sanctions, Israel/Gaza, ISIS/Iraq, Libya meltdown, etc.) yet the markets seem strangely calm. And oil prices have dropped.

I don't know what to think either . . .

But the USA is doing pretty well. Cheap natural gas to buy and although oil prices are high (in a long term view), we produce much more domestically.

Frankly I don't get why the right direction/wrong track numbers are still so bad. Economically things are getting better rather than worse and while the world isn't all sunshine and chocolate the US seems to be in a much better place than when vast numbers of troops were in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I mean, even the most cynical among us would have to say that the US is going in the right direction rather than the wrong track.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
It's a small business school. I'm hoping that you are correct that's just to show us what's out there, but it's not a good sign that that the required books for the class are all written by Rothbard. : (

If he wrote all of them solo I might worry, if it's all co-written by him then you'll probably be fine.

If subsequent polls follow suit then it'll be time to worry.

Yup, single polls are irrelevant. It's the larger trend that's important.
 

Diablos

Member
Yup, single polls are irrelevant. It's the larger trend that's important.
It does make me anxious to see more polls out of NH, because there have only been two recently (going back to the beginning of July, which is kind of stale tbh).

More polling out of NH pls.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
It does make me anxious to see more polls out of NH, because there have only been two recently (going back to the beginning of July, which is kind of stale tbh).

More polling out of NH pls.

Which is the problem with state races during the midterms, there isn't nearly enough data to figure out the trends.
 

Diablos

Member
I wonder if pollsters like PPP will jump in and try to see what's really going on.

I can't believe Obama's overall approval is so shitty. Have people not learned anything since the GOP took back the House?

I'm telling you, even should Hillary succeed Obama, people are going to miss this man when he leaves office. I'm not even excited about 2016 -- I'm voting for Hillary, yeah, but I am constantly reminded with all the buzz about her lately that she's just another hawk with deep pockets who happens to lean left.
 
PPP's next poll this week is of mine and PD's third-favorite race, Iowa (the other two are North Carolina and Arkansas, obviously). So we'll see where Bruce Braley stands.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
So is the GOP going to let the Ex-Im bank die?
Interesting the GOP line is Ex-Im should be shut down because it's just "corporate welfare." Admittedly, I'm not very familiar with Ex-Im, but it's pretty safe to assume that means it should continue being funded. I doubt Republicans would be trying to shut it down if it was really only about helping big business.
 
Interesting the GOP line is Ex-Im should be shut down because it's just "corporate welfare." Admittedly, I'm not very familiar with Ex-Im, but it's pretty safe to assume that means it should continue being funded. I doubt Republicans would be trying to shut it down if it was really only about helping big business.
Its something the out of power party always opposes.
 
Frankly I don't get why the right direction/wrong track numbers are still so bad. Economically things are getting better rather than worse and while the world isn't all sunshine and chocolate the US seems to be in a much better place than when vast numbers of troops were in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I mean, even the most cynical among us would have to say that the US is going in the right direction rather than the wrong track.
Because people don't realize how shit things are elsewhere.

That and the top 1% are sucking up most of the gains.
 
Frankly I don't get why the right direction/wrong track numbers are still so bad. Economically things are getting better rather than worse and while the world isn't all sunshine and chocolate the US seems to be in a much better place than when vast numbers of troops were in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I mean, even the most cynical among us would have to say that the US is going in the right direction rather than the wrong track.
Its shouldn't be looked at as people answering the question rather just a general optimism vs pessimism metric.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Its something the out of power party always opposes.

I don't remember anyone caring about it with Bush, and all that my searches came back with was about Bush cutting funding to it by 25% back in 2001 with Ron Paul and the Cato Institute complaining that cut's aren't enough and that the whole thing should go.

Bernie Sanders seems to be the main liberal voice against it in the Bush era, and he was more for reforming it than ending it from what I can tell, to be more targeted towards helping smaller businesses and protecting manufacturing jobs, something I'd assume he'd probably still say today if asked, unless that's how it's currently being managed.
 
I'm not even excited about 2016 -- I'm voting for Hillary, yeah, but I am constantly reminded with all the buzz about her lately that she's just another hawk with deep pockets who happens to lean left.
Ugh you just made me picture myself voting for Hillary in 2016.

Now I completely understand how republicans felt while voting for Mittens in 2012.
 
Frankly I don't get why the right direction/wrong track numbers are still so bad. Economically things are getting better rather than worse and while the world isn't all sunshine and chocolate the US seems to be in a much better place than when vast numbers of troops were in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I mean, even the most cynical among us would have to say that the US is going in the right direction rather than the wrong track.

The economy is bad in the eyes of most people, based on what they feel or hear from others. A lot of people have simply stopped looking for work, young people are moving back with their parents, low wage jobs are being created*, etc. It's not surprising why Americans are negative right now. And of course the media makes it worse.

*middle income jobs are slowly coming back, just not fast enough
 
I don't remember anyone caring about it with Bush, and all that my searches came back with was about Bush cutting funding to it by 25% back in 2001 with Ron Paul and the Cato Institute complaining that cut's aren't enough and that the whole thing should go.

Bernie Sanders seems to be the main liberal voice against it in the Bush era, and he was more for reforming it than ending it from what I can tell, to be more targeted towards helping smaller businesses and protecting manufacturing jobs, something I'd assume he'd probably still say today if asked, unless that's how it's currently being managed.
I should be more specific they're not calling to end it but they always oppose it. The solutions differ. Like you said sanders was bashing it for cronyism and helping big business.

And cato and Ron Paul aren't voices of the republican party

Heres a story on the role reversal:

http://www.salon.com/2014/06/25/win..._export_import_bank_politics_are_so_perverse/
But pre-Internet liberals might want to get out their back issues of the Nation and Mother Jones at this point to jog their memory, for they will see article after article condemning the 80-year-old institution as a slush fund that allows the government to fund a series of nasty activities. Here’s one from 1981 (“The Ex-Im helps sell nuclear reactors to dictatorships like the Philippines”). Here’s another from 1992, about the Reagan administration using Ex-Im to funnel loans to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq during their war with Iran. Even more recently, in 2011, Mother Jones reported on how Ex-Im loan guarantees helped build one of the largest coal plants in the world, in South Africa. (Ex-Im subsequently announced it would stop facilitating coal plant production – but only in December of last year.)

Ex-Im wasn’t just a minor annoyance, but a lefty cause célébre. Here’s Sen. Bernie Sanders, back when he served in the House, eviscerating Ex-Im on the floor in 2002, when it came up for reauthorization then. Sanders asked why American taxpayers would provide “huge subsidies and loans to the largest multinational corporations in the world, who pay their CEOs huge salaries … and companies take this money from the taxpayers and say, thank you very much, and oh by the way, we are laying you off because we are going to China and hiring somebody at 20 cents an hour.”

Sanders crafted bipartisan legislation to reform Ex-Im to better protect manufacturing workers, but the bill’s markup got canceled at the last minute. “My suspicion is that the moneyed interests who like the Export-Import Bank as it is right now sent down the word from the top that that markup never take place,” he told his House colleagues.

Back then, liberals highlighted how Enron, the failed energy giant, benefited from $675 million in Ex-Im loans. In 2002, Sanders also pointed out that Ex-Im gave an $18 million loan to a Chinese steel mill, which was later on accused of dumping steel into U.S. markets and hurting U.S. workers. And it was common just a decade or so ago for lefties to call Ex-Im the “Bank of Boeing,” because close to 60 percent of all Ex-Im loans facilitated their aircraft sales. Sanders in particular pointed out that Ex-Im aid for a Boeing sale to the Chinese military ended up displacing workers, as some manufacturing for the aircraft moved from Wichita to China. “The Export-Import Bank is helping General Electric ship jobs to Mexico … helping AT&T ship jobs to China. And on and on it goes,” Sanders concluded.

And Sanders certainly did not believe that financing for multinational trade deals would dry up without Ex-Im. He questioned the head of the bank in 2004, asking, “General Electric, which itself is one of the largest financial institutions in America, cannot get loans anyplace else but from the taxpayers and the workers of America? Are you going to tell me with a straight face that GE is a struggling small business, a minority business in the barrio of New York, and they just cannot find financing?”

I wanted to give all that back story to inform today’s debate. While libertarian groups like the Cato Institute have been consistent on opposing Ex-Im for picking corporate winners and losers, most of the rest of D.C. has shifted. Establishment conservatives like the incoming majority leader, Kevin McCarthy, once supported Ex-Im. Now he opposes it. While some Republicans still support the bank – 41 House GOP members endorsed it Monday – a large majority of the caucus has turned away, following the lead of Financial Services Committee chair Jeb Hensarling. Republicans barely reauthorized Ex-Im two years ago, amid Tea Party resistance to “crony capitalism.” Then-Majority Leader Eric Cantor was the driving force behind reauthorization then; with him on the way out, the bank is imperiled. Boeing stock crashed after Cantor’s primary loss.
 

benjipwns

Banned
It sounds like one of those midday courtroom shows, like Judge Joe Brown or whatever his name is. Basically it's televised small claims court, except the judge tries to be a character and everyone involved has some form of mental illness.
Nope, Fox News Saturday 9PM political talk show. She just spent 5 minutes berating the president as if giving an audition for the role of "scary 3rd grade teacher".
She actually had one of the other type: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Jeanine_Pirro
 

How the hell does judge judy have 4,375 shows? jeez!

It was reported in mid-2012 that Sheindlin was the highest paid television personality, making $123,000 per episode of Judge Judy,[2] or $45 million annually for the 52 days per year that she tapes her show.[3][4] In October 2013 it was reported that Sheindlin was still the highest paid TV star, earning $47 million per year for Judge Judy, which translates into just over $900,000 per workday.[5]
She is loaded!
 

benjipwns

Banned
Judy actually surpassed Oprah as the highest rated syndicated program in the last years of Oprah's show. It airs for effectively two straight hours on one of the local channels here. (There's another judge show inbetween two of the episodes.)

It gets great ratings and it's cheap as fuck to make. They shoot like a year's worth of cases in a couple weeks. (And with the soap opera and Maury type show mostly dying off, there were huge gaps in afternoon programming so these fill it up on the cheap and you can air the same ones ten thousand times.)

What the one company does, which made Gloria Allred's show and has ties to Byron Allen, is just take transcripts of small court cases and then have cheap actors re-create from it as a script and improvise a little. That even cuts out the expense of finding actual cases and people.

I think Judge Alex is/was one of those, I watched it a couple times and liked to pretend he didn't know they were actors.

Eye for an Eye was arguably the best one because it not only had a baseball bat labeled JUSTICE but Kato Kaelin:
47Y0wY9.jpg


The People's Court when Ed Koch was on it was my favorite, though Marilyn Milian is pretty good.
 
How the hell does judge judy have 4,375 shows? jeez!


She is loaded!

18 seasons. At 18 seasons, that's just 1 episode a day every weekday. Really, there's 2 per day for 24 weeks and the rest are reruns. At least in the beginning, maybe now it's 1 new and 1 rerun, who knows.

But she's been around nearly 20 years with a show that is on every weekday at least once in every market (probably twice or more). It's not that many shows.

And they film like 5 episodes in a day or something. Like Jeopardy. They do a whole week in 1 day.


PS: I'm back from vacation to torment you all, once again!
 

kehs

Banned
Obama was supposed to have a speech/brief about the militarization thing today. did it happen yet?


e: watching the press briefing...I miss jay carney.
 

benjipwns

Banned
And? AND? AND?!?

At the time, the nature of the delegation stirred controversy in the British media as tabloids claimed British officials felt snubbed that high-level American officials -- including President Obama himself -- were not attending.

The White House countered that Baker and Schultz' attendance were "testimony" to Thatcher's "global stature and reputation." British Prime Minister David Cameron's office also denied claims at the time that the administration had snubbed the late prime minister.

But in the case of Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old fatally shot by a police officer earlier this month, the Obama administration has devoted considerable resources. Attorney General Eric Holder visited Ferguson, Mo., last week and has dozens of investigators on the ground conducting a federal civil rights probe.

The administration also said that one of the White House officials attending the funeral on Monday had a personal connection.

Marlon Marshall, deputy director of the White House Office of Public Engagement, is a St. Louis native and went to high school with Michael Brown's mother.

The other White House official is Heather Foster, public engagement adviser for the White House Office of Public Engagement.

The White House also came under criticism recently when Obama did not attend the funeral for Maj. Gen. Harold Greene, the highest-ranking U.S. military officer killed in combat since the Vietnam War.

He was killed in a suspected insider attack in Afghanistan. Obama was in Martha's Vineyard during the funeral, but Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno attended.

When Greene's body arrived at Dover Air Force Base days earlier, Odierno and Army Secretary John McHugh reportedly were there for the transfer. While White House officials typically do not attend these transfers, Obama and past U.S. presidents do from time to time. Obama and top Defense officials attended the transfer, for instance, of the remains of 30 U.S. service members killed in Afghanistan in 2011 when their helicopter was shot down.

Meanwhile, the highest-level administration official at the 2010 funeral for border agent Brian Terry was then-Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Rick Perry's attorneys have filed an Application for Pretrial Writ of Habeas Corpus seeking to bar Perry's prosecution.

Attorneys for Gov. Rick Perry have filed a 60-page writ of habeas corpus to dismiss the charges filed against the governor.

The writ claims the charges of abuse of power and coercion filed against Perry are unconstitutional and that Perry was simply exercising his constitutional veto powers when he vetoed funding for the Public Integrity Unit last summer.

“By seeking to criminalize not merely the veto itself, but the Governor’s explanation for it as well, this prosecution also violates the Governor’s rights under Free Speech Clauses of the United States and Texas Constitution…” the writ says in part.

The writ also says the indictment violates the constitutional separation of powers and the speech or debate clause in the Texas Constitution.
 

Vlad

Member
People get too riled up over things that just aren't that big of a deal.

I know it's not possible to know for sure, but I just have this hunch that if things were the other way, we'd be hearing the same people bitch about how more delegates were sent to the funeral of someone from another country than there were to an american's.
 
Libertarians aren't really libertarians

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/25/in-search-of-libertarians/

Self-described libertarians tend to be modestly more supportive of some libertarian positions, but few of them hold consistent libertarian opinions on the role of government, foreign policy and social issues…..

In some cases, the political views of self-described libertarians differ modestly from those of the general public; in others there are no differences at all.

When it comes to attitudes about the size and scope of government, people who say the term libertarian describes them well (and who are able to correctly define the term) are somewhat more likely than the public overall to say government regulation of business does more harm than good (56% vs. 47%). However, about four-in-ten libertarians say that government regulation of business is necessary to protect the public interest (41%).

The attitudes of libertarians similarly differ from the public on government aid to the poor; they are more likely than the public to say “government aid to the poor does more harm than good by making people too dependent on government assistance” (57% vs. 48%), yet about four-in-ten (38%) say it “does more good than harm because people can’t get out of poverty until their basic needs are met.”

Libertarianism is associated with limited government involvement in the social sphere. In this regard, self-described libertarians are somewhat more supportive of legalizing marijuana than the public overall (65% vs. 54%).

But there are only slight differences between libertarians and the public in views of the acceptability of homosexuality. And they are about as likely as others to favor allowing the police “to stop and search anyone who fits the general description of a crime suspect” (42% of libertarians, 41% of the public).

Similarly, self-described libertarians do not differ a great deal from the public in opinions about foreign policy. Libertarianism is generally associated with a less activist foreign policy, yet a greater share of self-described libertarians (43%) than the public (35%) think “it is best for the future of our country to be active in world affairs.”

None of the seven groups identified by the 2014 political typology closely resembled libertarians, and, in fact, self-described libertarians can be found in all seven. Their largest representation is among the group we call Business Conservatives; 27% of this group says the term libertarian describes them well. Business Conservatives generally support limited government, have positive views of business and the U.S. economic system, and are more moderate than other conservative groups on the issue of homosexuality. However, they are also supportive of an activist foreign policy and do not have a libertarian profile on issues of civil liberties.

Under this one model, the group with a libertarian profile constituted about 5% of the public. They hold generally conservative views on the social safety net, regulation and business; liberal attitudes on homosexuality and immigration; and are less supportive of the use of military force when compared with the more conservative-leaning typology groups. They also are younger, on average, than most of the other groups (though a majority are 30 or older). But many members of this group diverge from libertarian thinking on key issues, including about half who say affirmative action is a good thing and that stricter environmental laws are worth the cost.

If anyone wants to make a thread, seems like a good topic
 
Libertarians aren't really libertarians

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/25/in-search-of-libertarians/

If anyone wants to make a thread, seems like a good topic

Well, for years I've been saying the "Libertarian" is a label that has been adopted by a lot of Republicans who are too embarrassed to identify as Republican because of one or another embarrassing policy position that the GOP has adopted. (It varies by person but they often are gay-bashing, abortion, war-mongering, war on drugs, immigration, etc.)

Many of them generally line up with the GOP but have one or two positions that they just can't stomach.
 

Retro

Member
I thought it was pretty well established already that for the average person "I'm a Libertarian" is a way to say "I'm a conservative" without saying "I'm a Republican." Obviously that doesn't apply to all Libertarians, just the... um... "Reddit Libertarian" type.

Either way, doesn't surprise me at all.

Edit: Beaten
 

benjipwns

Banned
The seeming conundrum is one of common American political terminology. These people are liberals, but in the United States nobody associates "liberal" with liberalism, in part thanks to the GOP and its allies. So the chasm that exists between conservatives and libertarians is no longer bridged by liberals (ala Hayek) and they associate the former with social conservatives so they wind up self-describing as the latter.
 

benjipwns

Banned
William F. "Segregation is a good thing" Buckley?
Yes, William F. "Learned, changed his stance and argued against segregation in 1960s debates with George Wallace" Buckley was much more libertarian than the conservative movement he "led" (similarly to Goldwater) but wouldn't have probably self-identified as a libertarian back then (though he did on occasion use "libertarian conservative") though I would imagine would if he was starting out now and likely would have appeared in the business conservative typography.

Though his focus was always more on culture as a force than direct politics.

To attempt to summarize the wide product of Buckley, especially with something as tremendous and far-reaching as Firing Line available, by citing a utilitarian argument from someone who was a Southerner writing in the 1950s is like discounting Wilson for his re-segregation of staffing rather than his progressive philosophy outlined in Congressional Government, Constitutional Government and the rest of his body of work. Or its predecessor The Republic merely because Plato held slaves. (See how I avoided the cliche about Jefferson's argument in The Deceleration and his holding of slaves by going with someone where there was no cognitive dissonance.)
 
To attempt to summarize the wide product of Buckley, especially with something as tremendous and far-reaching as Firing Line available, by citing a utilitarian argument from someone who was a Southerner writing in the 1950s is like discounting Wilson for his re-segregation of staffing rather than his progressive philosophy outlined in Congressional Government, Constitutional Government and the rest of his body of work. Or its predecessor The Republic merely because Plato held slaves. (See how I avoided the cliche about Jefferson's argument in The Deceleration and his holding of slaves by going with someone where there was no cognitive dissonance.)

No its really not. Buckley had plenty of other racist crap in his magazine and his statements. His Oxford Debate is especially noxious with its 'blacks are the real racists' arguments. He evolved like other conservatives, he kept his racist views but transformed them and hid them. He was a racist till he died. He constantly talked about racial IQ, supported apartheid, and racialized welfare.

But I have no problem saying Wilson was a 'progressive... for whites only', plato's philosophy should generally be ignored, and Jefferson was a hypocrite.
 
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