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[NYCmetsfan]

Lean R

Yup Santa Monica and Beverly Hills, hotbeds of conservative activism

 

[empty vessel]

Conservatives do this shit all the time. Romney/Ryan did an almost identical play during the election (though that was directed at medicare). Just the other day Bachmann tried to deny that she wanted to cut SS. Republicans have no respect for their idiot base.

They are in the business of representing business interests while making it appear as though they are representing people. Democrats too, for that matter, although they are more divided and moderate.

 

[Oblivion]

Anyway. We've received his message and the mods will discuss. If you want to comment on it, feel free to PM me or another mod. Otherwise let's get back on topic: what's the latest bad news for Kay Hagan?

Ghal just posted a link to a health insurance CEO saying that his company has to file for bankruptcy cause of all the new customers due to Obamacare.

 

[Oblivion]

New Lucky Ducky!

 

[AndyD]

I'm sure the talk shows hope he runs anyway.

Frankly, anything to wear down the GOP ability to run a forceful presidential campiagn by prolonging the primaries (even with the new primary rules the RNC laid out) is fine by me.

Do you have more details on this. Just curious.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

New Lucky Ducky!

lol

 

[Armoured Priest]

Do you have more details on this. Just curious.

Here's one of the articles.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7d85be-84db-11e3-a273-6ffd9cf9f4ba_story.html

 

[StopMakingSense]

Yup Santa Monica and Beverly Hills, hotbeds of conservative activism

Well, spots of BH can be really conservative, but that really only shows up in votes by precinct maps.

 

[Aaron Strife]

New Lucky Ducky!

Gotcha!

 

[NYCmetsfan]

@seanspicer
.@msnbc president phil griffin has issued an apology & acknowledged that they have fired the staffer responsible for offensive #tcot tweet

#JOBCREATORS

 

[Tamanon]

Good move by MSNBC. It's one thing for one of the editorial folks to say something like that, but not the newsroll.

 

[Oblivion]

#JOBCREATORS

Once again, your so called liberal media, ladies and Germans.

Ugh.

 

[RoninChaos]

Conservatives do this shit all the time. Romney/Ryan did an almost identical play during the election (though that was directed at medicare). Just the other day Bachmann tried to deny that she wanted to cut SS. Republicans have no respect for their idiot base.

Right, but it's outright LYING. Are the people who believe this really that stupid? I mean, even the language of it was basically "Those poor people are getting more than you!". It really was disgusting.

 

[zero shift]

New Lucky Ducky!

I never really understood why outsourcing industry jobs was that big of a deal. There is nothing that makes those jobs important. With guarantee employment and the presence of cooperatives wages for all jobs would go up to the living wage standard.

 

[Giant Panda]

Poor MSNBC guy got fired for telling the truth when FoxNews employees regularly say much worse about liberals.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Hm. House GOP released an immigration reform proposal that includes legalization for immigrants.

It's compromised as all fuck of course but maybe there's an inkling of hope.

 

[bananas]

Hm. House GOP released an immigration reform proposal that includes legalization for immigrants.

It's compromised as all fuck of course but maybe there's an inkling of hope.

An inkling of hope that the GOP destroys itself going into the midterms?

YOU BETCHA.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

‏@LukeRussert
House plan requires the immigrants seeking legalization be able to support themselves and their families without access to public benefits.

Second class citizens (does it use the word citizens?)

 

[Trouble]

Second class citizens (does it use the word citizens?)

If it's just at the time of naturalization, that's not so terrible if it makes reform finally happen. If it is permanently, then that seems quite unconstitutional. Equal protectional clause and such.

 

[Ataraxia]

Good move by MSNBC. It's one thing for one of the editorial folks to say something like that, but not the newsroll.

Firing the lowest employee in the food chain isn't always the answer but is what typically happens. Will MSNBC learn from it? I doubt it as they have a history of this nonsense and it will likely continue. It was a vile tweet not befitting a supposedly respectable news organization. Generalizing an entire group of people is never appropriate and striving to become the much less successful left-wing version of Fox News is hardly laudatory.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Let him know he's contacting the wrong person. If he wants to discuss his ban, he should contact support@neogaf.com. And we shouldn't be discussing it in thread.

Ahem.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Here is the GOP's principles on immigration:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/house-gop-immigration-principles-document

But they cannot be solved with a single, massive piece of legislation that few have read and even fewer understand, and therefore, we will not go to a conference with the Senate’s immigration bill. The problems in our immigration system must be solved through a step-by-step, common-sense approach that starts with securing our country’s borders, enforcing our laws, and implementing robust enforcement measures. These are the principals guiding us in that effort.

Border Security and Interior Enforcement Must Come First

In addition, we must ensure now that when immigration reform is enacted, there will be a zero tolerance policy for those who cross the border illegally or overstay their visas in the future.

Youth

One of the great founding principles of our country was that children would not be punished for the mistakes of their parents. It is time to provide an opportunity for legal residence and citizenship for those who were brought to this country as children through no fault of their own, those who know no other place as home. For those who meet certain eligibility standards, and serve honorably in our military or attain a college degree, we will do just that.

There will be no special path to citizenship for individuals who broke our nation’s immigration laws – that would be unfair to those immigrants who have played by the rules and harmful to promoting the rule of law. Rather, these persons could live legally and without fear in the U.S., but only if they were willing to admit their culpability, pass rigorous background checks, pay significant fines and back taxes, develop proficiency in English and American civics, and be able to support themselves and their families (without access to public benefits). Criminal aliens, gang members, and sex offenders and those who do not meet the above requirements will not be eligible for this program. Finally, none of this can happen before specific enforcement triggers have been implemented to fulfill our promise to the American people that from here on, our immigration laws will indeed be enforced.

They're not serious. Immigration reform won't happen till the dems win the house. I see nothing about citizenship, and triggers are a no go for the left.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It seems like that proposal would at least pass the DREAM Act which is good. But legalization without a path to citizenship is ridiculous, and only creates second class citizens.

If I was Obama I'd throw my support behind the proposal, and kill it with kindness. There's no way republicans pass that bill in the House. "Legalization" will be declared amnesty, just watch.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

It seems like that proposal would at least pass the DREAM Act which is good. But legalization without a path to citizenship is ridiculous, and only creates second class citizens.

If I was Obama I'd throw my support behind the proposal, and kill it with kindness. There's no way republicans pass that bill in the House. "Legalization" will be declared amnesty, just watch.

Obama should say nothing besides saying he supports immigration reform. He gains nothing be endorsing or scorning the bill. Its not happening either way.

Edit: so much for that

@DavidMDrucker Source: House GOP debate in retreat's #immigration session "rough." 50/50 for/against, which isn't bad for the pro's. But opposition "angry"

hahahaha

 

[RustyNails]

If GOP is split 50/50, then it can pass with Based Pelosi's help.

 

[RustyNails]

It seems like that proposal would at least pass the DREAM Act which is good. But legalization without a path to citizenship is ridiculous, and only creates second class citizens.

If I was Obama I'd throw my support behind the proposal, and kill it with kindness. There's no way republicans pass that bill in the House. "Legalization" will be declared amnesty, just watch.

No, Obama has to stay the fuck out of it right now. If he even suggests that he likes the progress so far, the entire GOP caucus will flip against it because of Republicans' collective obama derangement syndrome. I'm optimistic.

 

[PhoenixDark]

No, Obama has to stay the fuck out of it right now. If he even suggests that he likes the progress so far, the entire GOP caucus will flip against it because of Republicans' collective obama derangement syndrome. I'm optimistic.

That's the point of killing it with kindness. But APKmetsfan is probably right, he won't need to do anything: the House will destroy this bill.

 

[Black Mamba]

Here is the GOP's principles on immigration:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/house-gop-immigration-principles-document


They're not serious. Immigration reform won't happen till the dems win the house. I see nothing about citizenship, and triggers are a no go for the left.

Rather, these persons could live legally and without fear in the U.S., but only if they were willing to admit their culpability, pass rigorous background checks, pay significant fines and back taxes, develop proficiency in English and American civics, and be able to support themselves and their families (without access to public benefits).

Is making them pay back taxes even legal? Ex post facto and all that jazz? Seems dicey.

It's also a second-class citizenry described here which is ridiculous.

 

[speculawyer]

Henry Waxman is retiring.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/01/30/3228001/waxman-climate-legacy/

 

[PhoenixDark]

Is making them pay back taxes even legal? Ex post facto and all that jazz? Seems dicey.

It's also a second-class citizenry described here which is ridiculous.

Chuck Shumer made positive remarks about it. I understand he probably wants to get something done regardless, and doesn't want to cause a stir immediately, but still...this is stupid.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

If GOP is split 50/50, then it can pass with Based Pelosi's help.

The GOP isn't split 50-50 GOP reps at a retreat and in private are 50-50. Lets see once they make public statements and go back to their districts.

Chuck Shumer made positive remarks about it. I understand he probably wants to get something done regardless, and doesn't want to cause a stir immediately, but still...this is stupid.

shumer is speaking to immigration activists, saying they [dems] are actively trying to get something done and not just gonna play complete politics with the issue. If he comes out and says the GOP isn't playing ball the assumption will be he's not negotiating because its good politically for the dems. You won't see them endorsing specifics

They pretend they want to get something done (which they want but realize won't happen) and watch as the GOP base revolts, just like they did to bush.

 

[AndyD]

Is making them pay back taxes even legal? Ex post facto and all that jazz? Seems dicey.

It's also a second-class citizenry described here which is ridiculous.

It is legal in the sense that they would declare past undeclared income. Then pay taxes on it. Like any other tax evader.

This will stir up businesses who paid them under the table though and paid no payroll taxes and such. Because they would be fined as well. But of course businesses will get amnesty.

Realistically, with no citizenship on the table, this is pretty dead on arrival with half the people. And by not deporting all illegal immigrants and granting amnesty, its dead with the other half.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

It is legal in the sense that they would declare past undeclared income. Then pay taxes on it. Like any other tax evader.

This will stir up businesses who paid them under the table though and paid no payroll taxes and such. Because they would be fined as well. But of course businesses will get amnesty.

Realistically, with no citizenship on the table, this is pretty dead on arrival with half the people. And by not deporting all illegal immigrants and granting amnesty, its dead with the other half.

About 71 percent of voters surveyed nationwide said they would back an immigration bill that contains the following provisions: border security, an expanded visa program for high-skilled workers and agricultural workers, an employment verification system, a pathway to citizenship for undocumented children and legal status for immigrants in the United States illegally.

As for a pathway to citizenship, 73 percent would support it if it includes requirements to cough up penalties, learn English, pass background checks, pay taxes and wait at least 13 years, according to the poll.

Try 3/4s of the people supporting citizenship.

Those requirements are still too strict but its gonna be hard to get a truly humane immigration bill through

 

[PhoenixDark]

Some fascinating Obamacare stories from Alabama

The $77 Winslett is set to pay each month will go toward a BCBS Silver plan for himself and his wife. The plan's premiums are actually much higher on paper, but the family is eligible for a substantial subsidy, based on household income. (Winslett is the pastor at the Flint River Primitive Baptist Church, near Huntsville, and his wife is a stay-at-home mother for the family's children.)

A Silver policy for all seven family members would have cost much more, but upon being processed through the federal exchange, Winslett's children were deemed eligible for various forms of state-administered health coverage. His two youngest children will now be covered by Medicaid, and his three eldest will go onto the state's ALL Kids program.

It all might sound like a great deal for Winslett and his family. But the economics of the situation, however favorable, go against some of his core beliefs.

"I have a moral conviction against taking money from another person that I don't need," Winslett says. "I don't want to be on government assistance." But he has no choice: The Affordable Care Act made it illegal not to have health insurance, while at the same time changing the cost picture completely.

This is not to say that Winslett is against government assistance in general. "We have an obligation to take care of those that are downcast," he says. But for him, going from paying his own way to being unwillingly entered into a government program defies logic.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/who_hates_obamacare_increased.html#incart_special-report

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/who_likes_obamacare_alabamians.html#incart_special-report

 

[AndyD]

Try 3/4s of the people supporting citizenship.

Those requirements are still too strict but its gonna be hard to get a truly humane immigration bill through

I agree. Problem is that what most people want (within reason) is not what Congress does. A la gun control.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Some fascinating Obamacare stories from Alabama

"I have a moral conviction against taking money from another person that I don't need," Winslett says. "I don't want to be on government assistance." But he has no choice: The Affordable Care Act made it illegal not to have health insurance, while at the same time changing the cost picture completely.

This is not to say that Winslett is against government assistance in general. "We have an obligation to take care of those that are downcast," he says. But for him, going from paying his own way to being unwillingly entered into a government program defies logic.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/who_hates_obamacare_increased.html#incart_special-report

I wish people understood that health care at this point is a need.

But I can see how this whole thing would be troubling for him and many like it: suddenly they are the ones who 'need' help, who are the 'downcast'. Kinda sad really.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I agree. Problem is that what most people want (within reason) is not what Congress does. A la gun control.

Yup, but it goes against the it will piss off half. It will piss of a minority of people who are political radicals and who have shaped the political system to give themselves an undemocratic amount of power.

Some fascinating Obamacare stories from Alabama


http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/who_hates_obamacare_increased.html#incart_special-report

http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/who_likes_obamacare_alabamians.html#incart_special-report

Will he sign a pledge never to go to the emergency room if he doesn't pay up front? Or not take out more in social security than what he put in?

 

[Black Mamba]

I wish people understood that health care at this point is a need.

But I can see how this whole thing would be troubling for him and many like it: suddenly they are the ones who 'need' help, who are the 'downcast'. Kinda sad really.

This is exactly because the GOP has successfully branded anyone getting gov't assistance as "dirty poors," so not they're seeing themselves like they are one of them.

There's no shame in having to take gov't assistance and as a society we need to stop making people feel ashamed for it.

This is why those mentioned earlier like farmers are so adamant they aren't getting gov't assistance, but rather what they're owed. If they admit it's assistance, their hypocrisy isn't the problem, it's that they're "one of them" now.

 

[Karakand]

Is making them pay back taxes even legal? Ex post facto and all that jazz? Seems dicey.

Tax residency is determined with a lawful permanent resident test or a substantial presence test.

Generally speaking, the U.S. residents targeted by these reforms have had tax filing obligations for years that have not been satisfied. There would be nothing ex post facto about requiring those obligations to be satisfied.

 

[Oblivion]

"I have a moral conviction against taking money from another person that I don't need," Winslett says. "I don't want to be on government assistance." But he has no choice: The Affordable Care Act made it illegal not to have health insurance, while at the same time changing the cost picture completely.

WRONG!

You DO have a choice. It's to not get health insurance and pay the penalty. Of course, if he goes down that route then that also means he can't use the emergency room when he does get sick since that would make him a moocher.

 

[speculawyer]

Will he sign a pledge never to go to the emergency room if he doesn't pay up front? Or not take out more in social security than what he put in?

Well he is already getting huge benefits that he never paid for. Rich people do pay most of the taxes, so he is a moocher right now whether he realizes it or not.

Edit: That is a big lie that Rush Limbaugh tells his listeners all the time . . . "Hey, you don't want to have to pay for healthcare/welfare of those poor people, do you?!?!" . . . when in reality most of his listeners are the moochers. Yes, many of them pay taxes but most probably don't pay nearly as much taxes as the average tax amount per capita.

 

[BLACKLAC]

WRONG!

You DO have a choice. It's to not get health insurance and pay the penalty. Of course, if he goes down that route then that also means he can't use the emergency room when he does get sick since that would make him a moocher.

Couldn't he shop outside the exchanges?

 

[Oblivion]

Right, but it's outright LYING. Are the people who believe this really that stupid? I mean, even the language of it was basically "Those poor people are getting more than you!". It really was disgusting.

Yeah, I knew what you meant. I've said it before, liberals may spin, but conservatives just straight up lie. They've become way more brazen about it over the past couple of years. I still can't get over the Romney/Ryan gambit on medicare (which honestly, I thought was way more offensive than the 47% thing). I mean, can you imagine if Obama gave a speech in front of a crowd of liberals/democrats trying to make the case that Romney wanted to raise taxes on the wealthy and expecting them to get angry about it?

Couldn't he shop outside the exchanges?

Yup, that's true.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Couldn't he shop outside the exchanges?

His Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance premium was doubling because of the evil of Obamacare and he couldn't afford it anymore. So you see, he was forced to suck on the government teet by the dastardly socialist Obummer.

 

[Oblivion]

Firing the lowest employee in the food chain isn't always the answer but is what typically happens. Will MSNBC learn from it? I doubt it as they have a history of this nonsense and it will likely continue. It was a vile tweet not befitting a supposedly respectable news organization. Generalizing an entire group of people is never appropriate and striving to become the much less successful left-wing version of Fox News is hardly laudatory.

What was so "vile" about it? You realize that there was a previous Cheerios commercial involving a bi-racial family and right-wingers went ballistic for some reason, right?

 

[Piecake]

Speaking of MSNBC, watching it will make you dumber (Fox is even worse)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/business...watching_fox_news_make_you_less_informed.html

Can't say I am surprised

 

[BertramCooper]

Speaking of MSNBC, watching it will make you dumber (Fox is even worse)



http://www.slate.com/blogs/business...watching_fox_news_make_you_less_informed.html

Can't say I am surprised

FUCK YEAH NPR.

Public radio = best radio.

 

[B-Dubs]

Speaking of MSNBC, watching it will make you dumber (Fox is even worse)



http://www.slate.com/blogs/business...watching_fox_news_make_you_less_informed.html

Can't say I am surprised

The Daily Show being that up there is pretty sad.

Watching no news being better than FOX is worse though, holy shit.

 

[Oblivion]

Speaking of MSNBC, watching it will make you dumber (Fox is even worse)



http://www.slate.com/blogs/business...watching_fox_news_make_you_less_informed.html

Can't say I am surprised

The only one I'm really surprised about is the high score for people who listen to talk radio. Wtf?

 

[lednerg]

I'd like to see an updated version of that survey. Specifically, I'd like to know exactly what people are 'learning' from which news source. For each question, ask people "where did you learn about this subject?"