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[cartoon_soldier]

It was always super weird. I grew up in Wisconsin and always thought it was more or less liberal

Weren't all his victories in off election years?

 

[empty vessel]

Soo I'm part of this crazy political discussion group on Facebook (which has some insane right-wingers) and I'm arguing with this guy whose studying to be a social worker.. who literally denies privilege and institutional racism actually exists.. (he's white) is that the social science equivalent to a biologist who doesn't believe in evolution?

Ha. Yeah, pretty much.

 

[AndyD]

It's actually a brilliant move, because it means immigration reform gets passed (and Obama gets the credit) but it means that "will you allow the immigration reform bill to go into effect" will be the first question at every Republican primary debate, which takes away the entire benefit from taking it off the table for the GOP. No surprise Boehner shot it down -- it's nothing but downsides for the Republicans.

Indeed. Because it removes their current excuse from play, forcing them to either make up another excuse, or go with it and then answer questions for the next few years. I thought it was more a smart move than not.

 

[FyreWulff]

Texas moment of silence law? For real?

a quick google put me here:

http://www.danbranch.com/2013/09/03/10th-anniversary-of-the-texas-moment-of-silence-law-remembered/

Holy shit, this guy is scary. Also, inevitably equates the law to gay marriage.

It's like none of these people get that they're installing more indoctrination into schools than what they say their opponents are doing.

 

[Armoured Priest]

Weren't all his victories in off election years?

Yeah, they were.

 

[RustyNails]

Well I do think it's insane to say we need immigration reform because we're facing a worker shortage. I wish we had a worker shortage right now, but that's clearly the 100% exact opposite of what's going on right now.

The true argument for immigration is one of compassion, but I guess you can't expect any republican to argue for that.

Actually the argument for immigration reform is a legal matter. As a country what should you do with a sizeable underclass that does the dirty work no one wants to do (pick fruits, clean our clothes, cook our food, clean our houses and other hard labor for as low as $1 an hour), but remain without a legal status. Obvious answer is pay fine and get in the back of the line.

 

[Father_Brain]

This WSJ contributor has a genius idea for fighting poverty and unemployment: a lower minimum wage!

As a volunteer interviewer of the poor at a religious charitable organization in southwest Florida, I have come to believe that the most effective step we can take to ameliorate poverty, kick-start job growth and invigorate hope in every social stratum is to experiment with a $5 minimum wage.

A $5 wage will put money and hope into the lives of our poor in immediate, powerful and enduring ways. For all its $4 trillion stimulus, mere nickels of quantitative-easing funding "trickled down" to where the poor reside. But a $5 minimum wage will "trickle up," directly from employer to employed—creating millions of jobs rapidly and putting them within reach of huge numbers of the poor.

Intact low-income families, where three or four persons have the capacity and desire to work, but only one has a job, often at a near-minimum wage that typically generates about $15,000 a year. A $5 wage that opens full- or part-time jobs for the remaining three can change that single survival income into a $30,000-plus income stream to help produce a life of reasonable comfort and dignity.

You'd think no one can value making $5 an hour. But for those in poverty, a primal need is immediate and reliable access to an income of one's own. When one has nothing, anything becomes priceless. Watch the expression on the face of a poor person when you provide him or her with $2, $3 or $5 to put gas in a neighbor's borrowed car so he can bring free groceries, clothing, linens, housewares or furnishings from our organization back home. You'll see then the value of such a "trivial" wage.

 

[Hitokage]

DEFLATION WILL SAVE US

 

[Joe Molotov]

Four people working full-time to bring home $30,000 a year is the new American dream. Someone give me a hand moving these goalposts.

 

[StopMakingSense]

This WSJ contributor has a genius idea for fighting poverty and unemployment: a lower minimum wage!

I would love once for these people advocating for a lower minimum wage would explain by what magic it creates new jobs.

 

[PhoenixDark]

You say that as if Latinos have been the U.S. for only a short time.

A lot haven't been here long due to immigration, whereas others have been here longer. The point is that future generations will inevitably assimilate; an example of this would be current generation Hispanics who don't speak Spanish, just as the grandchildren of many Ellis Island Italians don't speak Italian. Once that happens on a large scale, and the anger over immigration fades (I assume an immigration bill will pass in the next president's first term), there will be a different mindset than there is now.

 

[Father_Brain]

I would love once for these people advocating for a lower minimum wage would explain by what magic it creates new jobs.

Geez, did you not read the part where he says that it "trickles up" from employer to employed? Are you really so blind that you can't see that employers would love to create millions of lower-paying jobs but are held back by the sinister hand of oppressive statist minimum wage law?

 

[Zona]

Soo I'm part of this crazy political discussion group on Facebook (which has some insane right-wingers) and I'm arguing with this guy whose studying to be a social worker.. who literally denies privilege and institutional racism actually exists.. (he's white) is that the social science equivalent to a biologist who doesn't believe in evolution?

If he's a sociology major or minor then yes. Having just finished a sociology major I can't fathom his position.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

‏@FloridaGOP
Happy Hug-iversary @charliecrist! Sign the card TODAY! http://bit.ly/1cbu0g1 pic.twitter.com/slPWSDXdb0

 

[NYCmetsfan]

A lot haven't been here long due to immigration, whereas others have been here longer. The point is that future generations will inevitably assimilate; an example of this would be current generation Hispanics who don't speak Spanish, just as the grandchildren of many Ellis Island Italians don't speak Italian. Once that happens on a large scale, and the anger over immigration fades (I assume an immigration bill will pass in the next president's first term), there will be a different mindset than there is now.

People get habitualized into voting patters. They're seeing the GOP now that will forever affect the way the view the parties. A lot of that will work its way down to their kids, it won't be as strong but it will play a large part. Kids look to their parents (Look at Democratic voters that grew up in the New Deal or Dems in West Virginia and Arkansas). An immigration bill isn't going to change this as it will be passed over the objections of the GOP base.

There is a large contingent of xenophobes in this country. Far too large to truly have a sister soulja moment too IMO. What ever party they cling to will be tainted by their ideas further preventing the party of ever attempting to attract non-whites beyond rare one of gains (Bush with Latinos). Its not just immigration but their demonization and fear mongering about Spanish speaking and Mexicanization of the country, the attempts to suppress pride for their ancestry, the general racism. There's also the fact poll after poll shows Latinos politics, not withstanding the ethnic elements of their association with Dems, are liberal on most issues.

It wasn't the fact that the Irish and Italians learned English, it was the fact they were allowed to work and not be as discriminated against and were able to enjoy economic success. Latino kids might speak English but they still face discrimination. Until the GOP stand for ending those barriers (or they erode on their own, which I doubt will happen anytime soon) they won't attract Latino voters.

 

[empty vessel]

People get habitualized into voting patters. They're seeing the GOP now that will forever affect the way the view the parties. A lot of that will work its way down to their kids, it won't be as strong but it will play a large part. Kids look to their parents (Look at Democratic voters that grew up in the New Deal or Dems in West Virginia and Arkansas).

Right. It's the same reason the South remained Democratic for so long after 1964. Rick Perry was a Democrat until 1989. These kinds of partisan shifts take decades.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Right. It's the same reason the South remained Democratic for so long after 1964. Rick Perry was a Democrat until 1989. These kinds of partisan shifts take decades.

Yup. Which is why the GOP is already screwed with Latino voters. They burned that bridge when they shot Bush's proposal down and passed the AZ law. A law won't fix things. What it might to is change the margins slightly. I imagine there are some well-to-do Latinos that aren't voting for the GOP due purely because of their stance on Immigration but its not gonna swing elections

Edit: I missed the debate the last few pages about the electoral college but you guys put far too much emphasis on elections as events rather than ways to measure what already exists. Campaigns matter in that the get people out to vote. Peoples political ideas already shaped.

 

[Aaron Strife]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-walker-reagan-vote

During an interview with Right Wing News last month Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R) reminisced about conservative darling Ronald Reagan and made an interesting claim.

"I remember, I was a teenager, had just become a teenager and voted for Ronald Reagan — limited government, you know, smaller government, lower taxes, strong national defense," he said. "You knew what you were getting. You knew how a Reagan administration, a Reagan presidency was going to be better for you."

However, as James Rowen and Blogging Blue note, Walker was born on Nov. 2, 1967. He would have been age 13 for the 1980 election and age 17 for the 1984 election -- both times Reagan ran.

Walker's office did not immediately respond to TPM's request for comment.

what an idiot

 

[NYCmetsfan]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-walker-reagan-vote


what an idiot

See? Voter fraud is real!

 

[Armoured Priest]

Unless he's remembering those high school voting things they do that kind of goes over the process of voting (and completely doesn't matter at all...and doesn't alter the fact that he's an idiot).

 

[Aaron Strife]

Unless he's remembering those high school voting things they do that kind of goes over the process of voting (and completely doesn't matter at all...and doesn't alter the fact that he's an idiot).

I voted for Bob Dole!

 

[NYCmetsfan]

"No Irish Need Apply."

I meant that it was after those practices ended they became 'white' and the ethnic cohesion ended. It was only after that they were assimilated.
Latino's still face systemic discrimination which prevents full assimulation. My contention is that is not just stay here for 4 generations and speak english youre 'white' it takes much more than that namely the reduction of barriers.

African Americans are the best example, most can trace their ancestry more than 2 centuries but they've never fully 'assimilated' because institutional barriers were and have never been fully taken down

 

[Byakuya769]

‏@FloridaGOP
Happy Hug-iversary @charliecrist! Sign the card TODAY! http://bit.ly/1cbu0g1 pic.twitter.com/slPWSDXdb0

They do realize that he's not running as a Republican anymore... right?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

They do realize that he's not running as a Republican anymore... right?

Who knows. The FloridaGOP is a mess (They'll keep the legislature too I imagine though.)


Reminds me of these two Florida Latinos switching parties because of the rhetoric of the GOP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...&ir=Latino+Voices&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000052

"The GOP of today is not the party I joined; it's not the party of my parents," Rivas Logan said in a statement. "It's a party that has been radicalized and held hostage by a group of extremists. It's a party that attacks women and minorities -- and one that asked me, and my former Hispanic Republican colleagues in the Florida legislature, to turn on their own people by supporting extreme anti-immigrant policies. It's a party I was no longer proud to be a part of."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/13/pablo-pantoja-democrat_n_3269977.html

"It doesn’t take much to see the culture of intolerance surrounding the Republican Party today," he wrote. "I have wondered before about the seemingly harsh undertones about immigrants and others. Look no further; a well-known organization recently confirms the intolerance of that which seems different or strange to them."

I don't know how the GOP or PD thinks they're making any inroads with these voters.

 

[Tamanon]

I voted for Bob Dole!

No politicians ever brag about voting for him.

 

[Vahagn]

Right. It's the same reason the South remained Democratic for so long after 1964. Rick Perry was a Democrat until 1989. These kinds of partisan shifts take decades.

Wait what? That's not what happened at all.

The south literally turned their backs on Democrats overnight after the passage of the Civil Rights Bill.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Wait what? That's not what happened at all.

The south literally turned their backs on Democrats overnight after the passage of the Civil Rights Bill.

The south was still 'Democratic'. Most people were democrats and were voting for a democrat (Wallace) and voted for democrats on the state and congressional level.

Look at their congressional representation it was all dems until the late 70s.
Tom Cotton's father had never voted for a Republican until his son ran.

 

[JesseEwiak]

EV is referring to state-level and local-level politics. Yes, the South voted for Republican Presidential candidates (aside from Carter & Clinton), but continued to vote for Democratic Senator's, Representatives, Mayor's, Governor's, and so on, until the 80's and early 90's.

 

[empty vessel]

EV is referring to state-level and local-level politics. Yes, the South voted for Republican Presidential candidates (aside from Carter & Clinton), but continued to vote for Democratic Senator's, Representatives, Mayor's, Governor's, and so on, until the 80's and early 90's.

Right. Texas still had a Democratic Senator as late as 1993. 1994 would probably be considered the point at which the balance finally and fully tipped. Exactly 30 years from when the partisan shift began.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Right. Texas still had a Democratic Senator as late as 1993. 1994 would probably be considered the point at which the balance finally and fully tipped. Exactly 30 years from when the partisan shift began.

Which is about how long they usually last. 30-40 years.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Right. Texas still had a Democratic Senator as late as 1993. 1994 would probably be considered the point at which the balance finally and fully tipped. Exactly 30 years from when the partisan shift began.

West Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas and Louisiana still have one!

And Georgia had one till 2003 and there was John Edwards until 2005

 

[zero shift]

Question: How come labor participation is dropping yet there are still three applicants for every job opening?

It was always super weird. I grew up in Wisconsin and always thought it was more or less liberal

Did you go outside of Kenosha, Milwaukee, or Madison?

 

[Vahagn]

Right. Texas still had a Democratic Senator as late as 1993. 1994 would probably be considered the point at which the balance finally and fully tipped. Exactly 30 years from when the partisan shift began.

Texas has a democratic senator now. One of the Castro brothers. While I agree with the basic premise that a political party completely or in large part shifting its constituency takes time, I disagree with the notion that individual people take a long time to shift.


I think whether it's the rise of Reagan or Obama or a single issues like Health Care or Civil Rights, I think momentary, drastic, and profound changes can and do happen quickly in the electorate.


As for state and local level politics, much of that isn't driven by ideology or passion. It's driven by name recognition, low low voter turnout, and whether you feel like the person is competent. Nobody has ever been passionate about a state legislator before.

 

[empty vessel]

Texas has a democratic senator now. One of the Castro brothers.

No Democrat has won a statewide election in Texas since 1994. Both of our Senators have been Republicans since then. We currently have Cornyn and Cruz.

 

[PhoenixDark]

People get habitualized into voting patters. They're seeing the GOP now that will forever affect the way the view the parties. A lot of that will work its way down to their kids, it won't be as strong but it will play a large part. Kids look to their parents (Look at Democratic voters that grew up in the New Deal or Dems in West Virginia and Arkansas). An immigration bill isn't going to change this as it will be passed over the objections of the GOP base.

There is a large contingent of xenophobes in this country. Far too large to truly have a sister soulja moment too IMO. What ever party they cling to will be tainted by their ideas further preventing the party of ever attempting to attract non-whites beyond rare one of gains (Bush with Latinos). Its not just immigration but their demonization and fear mongering about Spanish speaking and Mexicanization of the country, the attempts to suppress pride for their ancestry, the general racism. There's also the fact poll after poll shows Latinos politics, not withstanding the ethnic elements of their association with Dems, are liberal on most issues.

It wasn't the fact that the Irish and Italians learned English, it was the fact they were allowed to work and not be as discriminated against and were able to enjoy economic success. Latino kids might speak English but they still face discrimination. Until the GOP stand for ending those barriers (or they erode on their own, which I doubt will happen anytime soon) they won't attract Latino voters.

Things can also change quickly amongst a minority group, voting wise. A great example of this would be black voting patterns after the 1927 Mississippi flood; Hoover secured support from blacks, most of whom were republican at the time anyway, in part due to a variety of promises he made in the flood's aftermath - but by 1932 FDR won blacks over after Hoover didn't keep his promises.

The major difference with Hispanics and other minorities is the issue of white identity though. While I agree that voting patterns are often habitualized, I'm not convinced the Hispanic vote is off the table for republicans for a generation. Texas is a great example of this. Newly immigrated Hispanics and those near the border tend to be democrats, whereas as you move deeper into Texas you find a good deal of conservative, religious Hispanics (many of whom have lived in Texas for decades, are "legal," etc).

After immigration is moved off the table and the assimilation process continues, who knows what will happen. In the short term I expect the Hispanic vote to vary between low and high dem leans. Jeb Bush wouldn't lose the Hispanic vote by 40-50 points, whereas it was pretty obvious Mitt Romney was going to lose it by that margin. If Bush were to lose 60-40, 55-45, that's pretty much the best case scenario for republicans until the party fundamentally changes.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I was reading the newspaper today and this made me laugh

House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) plans to publish another budget soon. He is expected once again to propose sweeping changes to Medicare.

Ryan has previously proposed switching the system from one in which Medicare simply pays fees for medical services rendered to the elderly, into one in which tax dollars subsidize seniors’ premiums.

He argues that such a system would contain costs; Democrats complain that it would shift the burden on to seniors.

“House Republicans have offered commonsense solutions and made it clear who stands up for seniors. Chairman Ryan has worked across the aisle to protect and strengthen Medicare, and he will continue to advocate for real reform,” spokesman William Allison said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/197892-the-defeat-of-the-deficit-hawks

That sounds like another program I've heard a lot about recently...

 

[NYCmetsfan]

As for state and local level politics, much of that isn't driven by ideology or passion. It's driven by name recognition, low low voter turnout, and whether you feel like the person is competent. Nobody has ever been passionate about a state legislator before.

Its driven by party loyalty.

 

[Black Mamba]

The CBO literally released a FAQ to address GOP lies on their report.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45096

This is so sad...

 

[Black Mamba]

ACA's employer mandate delayed again.

Those with 50-99 employees delayed to 2016.
Those with 100+ must cover off coverage to 70%+ of employees in 2015, 95%+ in 2016 and thereafter.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The CBO literally released a FAQ to address GOP lies on their report.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45096

This is so sad...

Is it a coincidence that the CBO has Barack's initials? More Chicago style politics

ACA's employer mandate delayed again.

Those with 50-99 employees delayed to 2016.
Those with 100+ must cover off coverage to 70%+ of employees in 2015, 95%+ in 2016 and thereafter.

Why not just repeal it? The employer mandate I mean.

 

[Black Mamba]

Is it a coincidence that the CBO has Barack's initials? More Chicago style politics



Why not just repeal it? The employer mandate I mean.

Because that would be illegal. SCOTUS case on the matter allows for delays, but also stated it can't be indefinite.

There's always wiggle room for the executive, but I think because of how much of a stink it would make, they can't just ignore/repeal it forever.

Congress has to do it.

 

[Jackson50]

Has the divorce rate jumped yet? I heard heterosexual marriages were going to collapse as gay marriage swept the nation.

"I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires."
2 Peter 2: 2 & 3.

If economy imploded on the scale of depression, sure. But that is few and far in between. Last time economy tanked as much as it did before 2008 collapse was the great depression in 1930s. Small economic meltdowns like the savings and loan crisis during Reagan presidency or the dot com bubble burst do not affect the presidency that much. But if your broader point is that if we have a widespread economic meltdown when democratic President is in power, I agree that it can bring Republican president in power. But I don't think a major economic meltdown is in order for the next several decades. We could experience smaller crises, but they will not bring presidencies down.

The economy under Carter and Bush experienced short-term decline, and they both suffered the electoral consequences. Although, assuming our government avoids a catastrophically stupid mistake, even a recession is unlikely in the next two years. If growth remains moderate, the Democratic candidate should enjoy a slight advantage. And if growth accelerates, the Republicans will probably lose.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Rand Paul on endorsing Mitch McConnell

In a radio interview posted to YouTube on Saturday, the conservative freshman was asked by an incredulous Glenn Beck why he's endorsing the Senate Republican leader.

After an awkward pause, Paul tried to change the subject.

"Um ... I'm here in Texas today to endorse Don Huffines," he said.

Beck burst into laughter. Paul laughed with him, and then took a stab at answering the question. But he couldn't muster up a single nice thing to say about his fellow Kentuckian and leader of his party.

"Uhh, because he asked me," Paul said. "He asked me when there was nobody else in the race. And I said yes."

Hoo boy.

 

[zero shift]

Soo I'm part of this crazy political discussion group on Facebook (which has some insane right-wingers) and I'm arguing with this guy whose studying to be a social worker.. who literally denies privilege and institutional racism actually exists.. (he's white) is that the social science equivalent to a biologist who doesn't believe in evolution?

I'm pretty much arguing on facebook now too. Never really have done it before. I really regret it. Here's the argument so far. I'm the person with everything (including the face) blacked out.

I don't think I will reply to him again. I feel embarrassed with putting so much time and effort into this. And in case you are curious I blacked out the black guy's comments because they had my name on it (he was praising me).

 

[WayneMorse]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-walker-reagan-vote


what an idiot

And the sad part is that he's gonna get re-elected no matter what.

You crazy for this one Wisconsin.

 

[Vahagn]

No Democrat has won a statewide election in Texas since 1994. Both of our Senators have been Republicans since then. We currently have Cornyn and Cruz.

Sorry about that. He's a congressman and not a senator. That's my fault.

 

[speculawyer]

‏@FloridaGOP
Happy Hug-iversary @charliecrist! Sign the card TODAY! http://bit.ly/1cbu0g1 pic.twitter.com/slPWSDXdb0

I don't get this. Is the point here that Crist is the devil because he hugged Obama? Just like people that are whacked out because Chris Christie worked with Obama?

I mean it seems so racist . . . just hugging Obama makes a person completely unacceptable? I mean he is the president and he does work across the aisle to help people no matter what party they are in .. . but if you touch Obama then you are bad?

 

[Wilsongt]

I don't get this. Is the point here that Crist is the devil because he hugged Obama? Just like people that are whacked out because Chris Christie worked with Obama?

I mean it seems so racist . . . just hugging Obama makes a person completely unacceptable? I mean he is the president and he does work across the aisle to help people no matter what party they are in .. . but if you touch Obama then you are bad?

If you hug Obama you immediately become a Kenyan, Muslim, Marxists, Communist, Socalist, Gay, Liberal, racist fear monger. It's like when you touch a gay, your marriage is immediately nullified and you start liking the dick.

 

[Dan]

Is it a coincidence that the CBO has Barack's initials? More Chicago style politics

Communist Barack Obama

 

[sc0la]

I'm pretty much arguing on facebook now too. Never really have done it before. I really regret it. Here's the argument so far. I'm the person with everything (including the face) blacked out.


I don't think I will reply to him again. I feel embarrassed with putting so much time and effort into this. And in case you are curious I blacked out the black guy's comments because they had my name on it (he was praising me).

The only difference between arguing on Facebook and arguing with a farm animal is you might shift the farm animal's opinion with a well reasoned argument.