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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Watching the chaos from the side of the chamber was the man who caused it: Cruz, his hands in his pants pockets and a satisfied grin on his face. The Texas Republican strolled to the clerk's table to check on the vote count and was met with a look of disgust from Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN). And the feeling was widespread: Moments after Cruz walked into the Republican cloakroom, four senators emerged from it and changed their votes to 'aye.'"

"Cruz reemerged from the cloakroom, chewing gum, his hands again in his pockets. He smirked as his colleagues finally overcame his filibuster after a ­59-minute struggle.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...826d02-95b3-11e3-8461-8a24c7bf0653_story.html

I must admit I admire Cruz's troll expertise.

edit: can't stand Dana's assertion that we were close to default. Even if the vote failed we'd have until February 27th to pass it, and obviously there would be no way it would not pass, given the consequences.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...826d02-95b3-11e3-8461-8a24c7bf0653_story.html

I must admit I admire Cruz's troll expertise.

edit: can't stand Dana's assertion that we were close to default. Even if the vote failed we'd have until February 27th to pass it, and obviously there would be no way it would not pass, given the consequences.
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Well Cruz is actually a slightly terrifying figure.

Kinda reminds me of Tony Blair in that his convictions are so strong it blinds him from seeing the consequences of his own actions.
 
S

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
APKmetsfan said:
Isn't it used as medicine? I thought I read it was used in giving birth for pain.
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Other opiates probably are, heroin like you are imagining is not. But morphine (also an opiate) is Schedule I also and it is used to manage pain in medical situations.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
thepotatoman said:
I thought first degree needed to be premeditated. No matter what, I don't think he started his drive thinking "I'm going to kill a black kid today".

Second degree murder is the right verdict.
Click to expand...

Whatever though, hopefully they'll lock him away for the rest of his life at sentencing.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
APKmetsfan said:
That's not what first degree means.
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Yeah you're right, I was mistaken. On further research it sounds like the time it takes to go for the gun is plenty to count as premeditation.

That makes more sense, and I don't know what the verdict should have been.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Metaphoreus said:
The jury was hung on first-degree murder. That doesn't mean "not guilty." It does mean he can be tried on that charge again.
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Also, I heard on NPR that the charges for attempted murder could add up to decades in prison. So it's not like he's getting off without any punishment. (Unless the judge reduces the sentence to something piddly.)
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Dems' catch: Voters like their issues, not party

I am beginning to wonder if being popular on nearly every single issue doesn't matter if you're not popular on the 1 or 2 biggest issues.

A Republican sweep because we need jobs and "Republicans know how to make jobs" feels like a very scary but real possibility to me.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...5c018c-967c-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_story.html

Sometimes I really think the American people are idiots. Why would you reject the ability to ask for higher wages and better working conditions?

Or do the American people really think that the absurd amount of profits rich people get from exploiting the worker is well deserved, and it's their own faults they get shit wages even though they produce much more than they're earning.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
WayneMorse said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...5c018c-967c-11e3-9616-d367fa6ea99b_story.html

Sometimes I really think the American people are idiots. Why would you reject the ability to ask for higher wages and better working conditions?

Or do the American people really think that the absurd amount of profits rich people get from exploiting the worker is well deserved, and it's their own faults they get shit wages even though they produce much more than they're earning.
Click to expand...

In this one case, I don't think it's people voting against their own interest. Tennessee Republicans (like Bob Corker) threatened to take away VW incentives if they unionized, which would lead to VW closing their plants and moving to Mexico.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
USA Today seems to think that the workers didn't feel a need for higher wages or better working conditions in the first place. I suppose if there was a huge need for a union to vastly change things that VW didn't want to change, VW wouldn't have backed it in the first place.
 
E

Eric_S

Member
So I was watching a Google solve for x talk about stunting, when it was mentioned that ~7% of the american population suffers from it. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R7r-uazgGRI


No way, I thought and lulled over to Wikipedia for a brief check: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Children_under_height_for_age_UN_HDR_2007-2008.PNG

Yeah. :(

Now as you can see, in on the phone, (My apologies for any silly errors due to it) which prevents me from comfortably checking the things that I should further. Do other countries categorize stunting differently, how reliable are the numbers and what not? But still. Assuming that the 7% number is even remotely true, you still have a very large portion of the US population for whom any sort of "bootstrapping" will be far far harder.

And why? Does the food stamps and other nutritional programs not work? What is the root cause of this in the US and what can be done to rectify it?
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
Montana Prosecutor Allegedly Told Mother of 5-Year-Old Sexual-Assault Victim That "Boys Will Be Boys"

On Friday, the Department of Justice sent a letter to the Missoula County Attorney's Office in Montana, alleging that it has found "substantial evidence" that prosecutors there systematically discriminate against female sexual-assault victims. According to the DOJ, the office considers sexual-assault cases involving adult women a low priority, often treats these victims with disrespect—quoting religious passages to one woman who reported assault, in a way that made her feel judged—and declines to prosecute some cases in which it has confessions or eyewitnesses, including a case in which Missoula police obtained incriminating statements from a man who admitted to having sexual intercourse with a mentally ill woman, who had asked him to stop.

"We uncovered evidence of a disturbing pattern of deficiencies in the handling of these cases by the County Attorney's Office, a pattern that not only denies victims meaningful access to justice, but places the safety of all women in Missoula at risk," wrote Acting Assistant Attorney General Jocelyn Samuels for the Civil Rights Division, in a statement on Friday.

In a statement emailed to Mother Jones on Saturday, Missoula County Attorney Fred Van Valkenburg wrote, "I think that everything the DOJ is saying about our office is false. These people are as unethical as any I have ever seen. They obviously have a political agenda they want to push and the truth does not matter to them." Van Valkenburg also told The Missoulian, "There was no effort whatsoever by the DOJ to in any way inform me before they made this thing public." (A Justice Department spokeswoman told Mother Jones on Saturday that it has reached out to the Missoula County Attorney's Office "more than a half-dozen times over the past 21 months in an attempt to reach an amicable resolution." She added, "We remain confident in the integrity of our findings.")
....

According to the Justice Department's letter, in one instance, a deputy county attorney in Missoula allegedly quoted religious passages to a woman who'd reported sexual assault "in a way that the victim interpreted to mean that the Deputy County Attorney was judging her negatively for have made the report." In another case, the Justice Department spoke to a woman whose daughter was sexually assaulted, at the age of five, by an adolescent boy, who was sentenced to two years of community service for the crime. A prosecutor handling the case allegedly told the mother that "boys will be boys." Another sexual-assault victim discussing prosecution options was allegedly told by a deputy county attorney, "All you want is revenge."
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Jesus fucking Christ.

Republican governance everyone. Fucking Americans.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
thepotatoman said:
Dems' catch: Voters like their issues, not party

I am beginning to wonder if being popular on nearly every single issue doesn't matter if you're not popular on the 1 or 2 biggest issues.

A Republican sweep because we need jobs and "Republicans know how to make jobs" feels like a very scary but real possibility to me.
Click to expand...

Dems had a couple years to impress voters (2009-2010) and they didn't. Obviously part of that is that the economy was going to be fucked regardless, and some GOP obstruction, but overall clearly voters don't view democrats as competent. And I think a lot of it also has to do with the party not focusing on some popular policies when they had the chance.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
Oblivion said:
In this one case, I don't think it's people voting against their own interest. Tennessee Republicans (like Bob Corker) threatened to take away VW incentives if they unionized, which would lead to VW closing their plants and moving to Mexico.
Click to expand...

Reading the GAF OT Thread on this...

I think it's safe to say it's stupidity about what unions do that is driving this.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Dems had a couple years to impress voters (2009-2010) and they didn't. Obviously part of that is that the economy was going to be fucked regardless, and some GOP obstruction, but overall clearly voters don't view democrats as competent. And I think a lot of it also has to do with the party not focusing on some popular policies when they had the chance.
Click to expand...

I don't think Obama should've tackled healthcare reform in the first year of his Presidency, Obama should've listened to Biden and gone for a second stimulus while he had the chance. It would've definitely improved the economy and put Obama in a stronger position for 2012.

If the ACA was never passed the Dems would've kept control of the House in 2010 and probably would've done better with state and local elections as well.


Also, related to Obama's first term, I think Obama should've appointed Kerry as Sec. of State in 2009 instead of Hillary, seeing what Kerry has done in the past 12 months makes me wonder what giving him a full eight years would've looked like. It would be interesting to see how he would've dealt with the Arab spring.
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
WayneMorse said:
Also, related to Obama's first term, I think Obama should've appointed Kerry as Sec. of State in 2009 instead of Hillary, seeing what Kerry has done in the past 12 months makes me wonder what giving him a full eight years would've looked like. It would be interesting to see how he would've dealt with the Arab spring.
Click to expand...

That assumes he would've done all 8 years. Do many SOS's do more than one term?
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
WayneMorse said:
If the ACA was never passed the Dems would've kept control of the House in 2010 and probably would've done better with state and local elections as well.
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What are you basing this on? It doesn't seem to be founded in reality. The only thing that would have resulted in the Democrats keeping the House would be the economy vastly improving. And frankly, that probably wasn't going to happen unless there was a large second stimulus specifically targeted towards creating jobs (which may not have been a feasible political move because of lack of support).

If the ACA doesn't pass before 2010 it probably doesn't happen at all.

Also, related to Obama's first term, I think Obama should've appointed Kerry as Sec. of State in 2009 instead of Hillary, seeing what Kerry has done in the past 12 months makes me wonder what giving him a full eight years would've looked like. It would be interesting to see how he would've dealt with the Arab spring.
Click to expand...

This misses the point of why Obama appointed Hillary in the first place.
 
D

Diablos

Member
WayneMorse said:
If the ACA was never passed the Dems would've kept control of the House in 2010 and probably would've done better with state and local elections as well.
Click to expand...
Oh wah wah. Obama this, Obama that. Fact is no matter what, he was up against the most insane opposition out of the GOP not seen since the civil war. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do.

A second huge stimulus would have been dumb; something like a jobs bill would have been a better suggestion. Health care reform is a once in a lifetime opportunity though and he had to strike while the iron was hot. I don't blame him one bit for doing it. And I do not think a second stimulus nor a jobs bill really would have made the economy that much better off. The Tea Party was coming out of the woodwork ever since Obama got sworn in. Nothing was going to stop them. The only question was how big of a win would they have had in 2010 had PPACA not passed? The momentum was there.

Besides, what are you whining about? He got re-elected, god dammit. Your post reeks of someone in an alternate universe where Obama is a one-term President. Democrats should be proud of what Obama accomplished in his first term. In his first two years he did more than most Presidents have done in eight. This isn't even counting other things he did afterwards like getting OBL. Everyone is so fucking negative all the time in America about anything, from politics to the olympics. It is quite tiresome.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
WayneMorse said:
I don't think Obama should've tackled healthcare reform in the first year of his Presidency, Obama should've listened to Biden and gone for a second stimulus while he had the chance. It would've definitely improved the economy and put Obama in a stronger position for 2012.

If the ACA was never passed the Dems would've kept control of the House in 2010 and probably would've done better with state and local elections as well.


Also, related to Obama's first term, I think Obama should've appointed Kerry as Sec. of State in 2009 instead of Hillary, seeing what Kerry has done in the past 12 months makes me wonder what giving him a full eight years would've looked like. It would be interesting to see how he would've dealt with the Arab spring.
Click to expand...
Oh whatever. At least he did something with the majority he had.
 
I

ISOM

Member
Diablos said:
Oh wah wah. Obama this, Obama that. Fact is no matter what, he was up against the most insane opposition out of the GOP not seen since the civil war. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do.

A second huge stimulus would have been dumb; something like a jobs bill would have been a better suggestion. Health care reform is a once in a lifetime opportunity though and he had to strike while the iron was hot. I don't blame him one bit for doing it. And I do not think a second stimulus nor a jobs bill really would have made the economy that much better off. The Tea Party was coming out of the woodwork ever since Obama got sworn in. Nothing was going to stop them. The only question was how big of a win would they have had in 2010 had PPACA not passed? The momentum was there.

Besides, what are you whining about? He got re-elected, god dammit. Your post reeks of someone in an alternate universe where Obama is a one-term President. Democrats should be proud of what Obama accomplished in his first term. In his first two years he did more than most Presidents have done in eight. This isn't even counting other things he did afterwards like getting OBL. Everyone is so fucking negative all the time in America about anything, from politics to the olympics. It is quite tiresome.
Click to expand...

That is why certain posters deserve to be on ignore. They are always negative about everything. And they spin history to suit their negativity. It is exhausting to talk to these people.
 
D

Drakeon

Member
Diablos said:
Oh wah wah. Obama this, Obama that. Fact is no matter what, he was up against the most insane opposition out of the GOP not seen since the civil war. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do.

A second huge stimulus would have been dumb; something like a jobs bill would have been a better suggestion. Health care reform is a once in a lifetime opportunity though and he had to strike while the iron was hot. I don't blame him one bit for doing it. And I do not think a second stimulus nor a jobs bill really would have made the economy that much better off. The Tea Party was coming out of the woodwork ever since Obama got sworn in. Nothing was going to stop them. The only question was how big of a win would they have had in 2010 had PPACA not passed? The momentum was there.

Besides, what are you whining about? He got re-elected, god dammit. Your post reeks of someone in an alternate universe where Obama is a one-term President. Democrats should be proud of what Obama accomplished in his first term. In his first two years he did more than most Presidents have done in eight. This isn't even counting other things he did afterwards like getting OBL. Everyone is so fucking negative all the time in America about anything, from politics to the olympics. It is quite tiresome.
Click to expand...

You tell em' Diablos. Fuck yeah.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
WayneMorse said:
I don't think Obama should've tackled healthcare reform in the first year of his Presidency, Obama should've listened to Biden and gone for a second stimulus while he had the chance. It would've definitely improved the economy and put Obama in a stronger position for 2012.

If the ACA was never passed the Dems would've kept control of the House in 2010 and probably would've done better with state and local elections as well.


Also, related to Obama's first term, I think Obama should've appointed Kerry as Sec. of State in 2009 instead of Hillary, seeing what Kerry has done in the past 12 months makes me wonder what giving him a full eight years would've looked like. It would be interesting to see how he would've dealt with the Arab spring.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with them doing healthcare first (you have to go big early), I just feel they should have done it better. Wasting months playing kick-the-football with Lucy Olympia Snowe was a bad idea, and they didn't sell the plan to the public effective at all; it was a horrible sell job from beginning to end.

But ultimately healthcare didn't fuck dems in 2010 alone, it was moreso the economy. Also let's not forget democrats left Washington with literally nothing they could tell their constituents about. The stimulus was unpopular, healthcare was toxic...and that's it. The WH was probably too ambitious trying to get huge things done, when they could have focused on smaller, effective items that constituents would like. Ultimately they miscalulated just how bad the economy was, and the need to be focused on it.

With respect to Hillary...I agree Kerry has been a far better SecOfState, whereas Clinton largely used the job as a giant photo op. But Obama's decision made sense at the time; having Hillary in the senate could have been problematic, especially during the tough times in 2010 and 2011. Rewarding her was a good way to remove a potential thorn from his side and buy Bill Clinton's loyalty.

With respect to the Arab Spring, I don't think Kerry would have changed anything. Ultimately Obama's non-response was going to be the official response regardless of who was at the State Department.

(another thing on healthcare: without it, Obama would have no legacy. It was quite important and I'm glad he got it done. However I'm still shocked at just how poorly he has handled it since then. You would think that he'd be more focused on ensuring his legacy item worked, ie making sure the website was ready to go, breathing down people's necks about kinks, glitches, etc)
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Diablos said:
Oh wah wah. Obama this, Obama that. Fact is no matter what, he was up against the most insane opposition out of the GOP not seen since the civil war. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do.

A second huge stimulus would have been dumb; something like a jobs bill would have been a better suggestion. Health care reform is a once in a lifetime opportunity though and he had to strike while the iron was hot. I don't blame him one bit for doing it. And I do not think a second stimulus nor a jobs bill really would have made the economy that much better off. The Tea Party was coming out of the woodwork ever since Obama got sworn in. Nothing was going to stop them. The only question was how big of a win would they have had in 2010 had PPACA not passed? The momentum was there.

Besides, what are you whining about? He got re-elected, god dammit. Your post reeks of someone in an alternate universe where Obama is a one-term President. Democrats should be proud of what Obama accomplished in his first term. In his first two years he did more than most Presidents have done in eight. This isn't even counting other things he did afterwards like getting OBL. Everyone is so fucking negative all the time in America about anything, from politics to the olympics. It is quite tiresome.
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Who are you and what did you do to Diablos
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Diablos said:
Oh wah wah. Obama this, Obama that. Fact is no matter what, he was up against the most insane opposition out of the GOP not seen since the civil war. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do.

A second huge stimulus would have been dumb; something like a jobs bill would have been a better suggestion. Health care reform is a once in a lifetime opportunity though and he had to strike while the iron was hot. I don't blame him one bit for doing it. And I do not think a second stimulus nor a jobs bill really would have made the economy that much better off. The Tea Party was coming out of the woodwork ever since Obama got sworn in. Nothing was going to stop them. The only question was how big of a win would they have had in 2010 had PPACA not passed? The momentum was there.

Besides, what are you whining about? He got re-elected, god dammit. Your post reeks of someone in an alternate universe where Obama is a one-term President. Democrats should be proud of what Obama accomplished in his first term. In his first two years he did more than most Presidents have done in eight. This isn't even counting other things he did afterwards like getting OBL. Everyone is so fucking negative all the time in America about anything, from politics to the olympics. It is quite tiresome.
Click to expand...

Diablos, did your account get hacked?

I agree with everything said here, it's perfect. I'm saving this post so I can quote it later if need be.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Diablos said:
Oh wah wah. Obama this, Obama that. Fact is no matter what, he was up against the most insane opposition out of the GOP not seen since the civil war. It doesn't matter what he did or didn't do.

A second huge stimulus would have been dumb; something like a jobs bill would have been a better suggestion. Health care reform is a once in a lifetime opportunity though and he had to strike while the iron was hot. I don't blame him one bit for doing it. And I do not think a second stimulus nor a jobs bill really would have made the economy that much better off. The Tea Party was coming out of the woodwork ever since Obama got sworn in. Nothing was going to stop them. The only question was how big of a win would they have had in 2010 had PPACA not passed? The momentum was there.

Besides, what are you whining about? He got re-elected, god dammit. Your post reeks of someone in an alternate universe where Obama is a one-term President. Democrats should be proud of what Obama accomplished in his first term. In his first two years he did more than most Presidents have done in eight. This isn't even counting other things he did afterwards like getting OBL. Everyone is so fucking negative all the time in America about anything, from politics to the olympics. It is quite tiresome.
Click to expand...

Citizen_kane_clapping.gif
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
The Dems were never keeping the House. The overly aggressive gerrymandering while everyone was distracted with other things ensured a Republican house.
 
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