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[Oblivion]

In case you had forgotten, Republicans and their friend, Joe Lieberman, were pushing very hard against any public option. What you are bolding right there is after months of negotiation where Obama was attempting to basically compromise with Joe Lieberman and friends in order to get the law passed with some semblance of a public option. He thought having a trigger would be the best route, at the end of the day, they did not even accept that plan.

It's true that Obama may not have been able to overcome Lieberman and the conservadems obstruction, but that doesn't mean that he even remotely fought for it. I remember seeing Democrats in congress constantly talking about the PO and how Obama was conspicuously silent on that matter. From what I can recall, Obama name dropped it early on during the HCR debate, but then pretty much chucked it long before the bill was even close to passing.

 

[Oblivion]

Pretty damning for Microsoft IMO.

But Bill Gates supported Obama! How does Ewick justify his purchase?

 

[WayneMorse]

not only did they not accept that plan, the blue dogs were(deservedly) massacred in 2010 and the notion of an "insurance-based reform" did not win Obama even a shred of conservative support politically, neither from politicians or from voters. none of the political calculations he supposedly made when abandoning the public option panned out.

in other words: obama's strategy of being the ~*post-partisan uniter*~ was idiotic at best and didn't win him anything.

Obama did a lot of bad things in order to appear centrist.

I think it's also important to note that the White House lobbied hard against the Brown=Kaufman amendment to Dodd-Frank which would've caused JP Morgan, Well Fargo and Bank of America to break up. It had the support of the Dem leadership and some blue dogs and conservative Republicans so it could've passed. He also failed to renegotiate NAFTA, something he pledged to do on the campaign trail in 08.

 

[Zabka]

No he wasn't. I specifically remember him outright not even mentioning it, and of course there's the fact the insurance companies weren't going to sign on if the bill featured a public option. It was taken off the table long before the bill was written.

By pushing for it I was referring to his campaign. When it actually came down to making the law he knew it was off the table. The "trigger" was his compromise that none of the blue dogs bit on.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/24/leaderless-senate-pushes_n_332844.html

An article of nothing but rumors. Look I have one too:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...on-its-a-myth/2011/11/17/gIQAZQt0UN_blog.html

ETA: The public option was dead the second election night ended. Lieberman and Nelson would never let it through.

 

[Oblivion]

So I was wondering if the CBO report on the impact of a minimum wage hike was as big a deal as it was made out to be. They said that a min. wage hike would result in the loss of 500k jobs. Now, while that's not cool, the whole job market is what, over 100 million jobs, right? So that's actually a 0.5% job loss.

Isn't that not enough enough to be considered statistical noise?

 

[theprodigy]

But Bill Gates supported Obama! How does Ewick justify his purchase?

10/10

Spoiler

I bet very few people in this thread have either PS4 or XB1

 

[Tristam]

not only did they not accept that plan, the blue dogs were(deservedly) massacred in 2010 and the notion of an "insurance-based reform" did not win Obama even a shred of conservative support politically, neither from politicians or from voters. none of the political calculations he supposedly made when abandoning the public option panned out.

in other words: obama's strategy of being the ~*post-partisan uniter*~ was idiotic at best and didn't win him anything.

It won him a handful of kind words from David Brooks! Surely, there is no worthier achievement.

 

[speculawyer]

No he wasn't. I specifically remember him outright not even mentioning it, and of course there's the fact the insurance companies weren't going to sign on if the bill featured a public option. It was taken off the table long before the bill was written.

I hate to agree with PD but he is right with this. Obama did not vocally support a public option and pretty much laughed at the idea of single-payer.

That was very stupid . . . it was very early Obama naivety. He should have pushed hard for single payer but then settled for a public option. Or at least pushed harder for a single option and then give it to get some more votes or better terms on something.

You gotta move that Overton Window.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I hate to agree with PD but he is right with this. Obama did not vocally support a public option and pretty much laughed at the idea of single-payer.

That was very stupid . . . it was very early Obama naivety. He should have pushed hard for single payer but then settled for a public option. Or at least pushed harder for a single option and then give it to get some more votes or better terms on something.

You gotta move that Overton Window.

I don't think it had anything to do with being naive though. The insurance companies weren't going to play ball with a public option, and it was quietly drowned behind the scenes. Obama's entire presidency has revolved around compromise and very little ideological focus; he's more than willing to give just about anything up if it ensures he gets to sign something into law.

 

[Zabka]

I hate to agree with PD but he is right with this. Obama did not vocally support a public option and pretty much laughed at the idea of single-payer.

That was very stupid . . . it was very early Obama naivety. He should have pushed hard for single payer but then settled for a public option. Or at least pushed harder for a single option and then give it to get some more votes or better terms on something.

You gotta move that Overton Window.

Your memory is inaccurate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8QKUxang9g

Single-payer was never going to happen. Nelson and Lieberman were put in office to prevent something like a public option from passing.

Here's a great Bill Moyers piece on the Public Option from 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ5tj4cN9Jk

And here's an article on Max Baucus from 2013: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-dreier/max-baucus-china-ambassador_b_4476035.html

From the time Obama took office in January 2009 until he signed the Affordable Care Act in March 2010, Baucus used his considerable influence to undermine Obama's efforts to include meaningful regulations to require the insurance and drug companies to act more responsibly. He led the opposition of a handful of moderate Democrats to Obama's proposal for a public option health care plan. That opposition forced Obama and progressive Democrats in Congress to make numerous compromises to accommodate a few Senators, including Baucus, who were tools of the insurance lobby. Baucus consistently thwarted efforts by health reform advocates to protect consumers and control costs.

 

[Sibylus]

CIA and senators in bitter slanging match over Capitol Hill spying claims (Spencer Ackerman, Guardian) - John Brennan, CIA director, rebukes intelligence committee as tensions over torture findings explode into public sphere

John Brennan, the director of the CIA, said the claims by members of the Senate intelligence committee were “spurious” and “wholly unsupported by the facts”, and went as far as suggesting the committee itself may have been guilty of wrongdoing.

The battle stems from a hotly contested report into the use of torture by the CIA in the interrogations it carried out after 9/11, whose conclusions are so explosive that it has yet to be declassified, despite exhortations from the White House that a summary should be published.

Earlier on Wednesday reports surfaced that the CIA inspector general had opened an inquiry, said to be reporting to the justice department, into claims that CIA employees had acted improperly. Suggestions that the CIA had monitored the computer networks of committee staffers had shocked the senators that sit on the panel. Some observers believe that such actions might be criminal.

Observers expressed alarm about the reports of the CIA inspector general inquiry, first revealed by McClatchy and the New York Times, raising the disturbing prospect of a bitter public fight between an angry intelligence agency and its elected overseers.

“In the worst case it would be a subversion of independent oversight and a violation of separation of powers,” Steven Aftergood, an intelligence analyst at the Federation of American Scientists, told the Guardian. “It’s potentially very serious.”

CIA acting like they're scared to death of what's in that torture report.

 

[Oblivion]

Bad news for minimum wage hike supporters:

When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the state’s minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasn’t been borne out.

In the 15 years that followed, the state’s minimum wage climbed to $9.32 -- the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washington’s restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...t-minimum-wage-state-beats-u-s-with-jobs.html

Sure, it LOOKS like that's positive news, but imagine how much higher Washington's growth would have been if they DIDN'T enact the minimum wage.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Spoiler

I bet very few people in this thread have either PS4 or XB1

We're all poor.

 

[TacticalFox88]

I hate to agree with PD but he is right with this. Obama did not vocally support a public option and pretty much laughed at the idea of single-payer.

That was very stupid . . . it was very early Obama naivety. He should have pushed hard for single payer but then settled for a public option. Or at least pushed harder for a single option and then give it to get some more votes or better terms on something.

You gotta move that Overton Window.

That's the problem with Bams. He never negotiates down. He always tries to negotiate up. That almost NEVER works in daily life, let alone politics.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

That's the problem with Bams. He never negotiates down. He always tries to negotiate up. The almost NEVER works in daily life, let alone politics.

As much as I love the dude. This has always been his M.O. He doesn't understand politics IMO.

What I mean by that is he doesn't understand why things change, he know how to win an election but not lead (and I don't mean that in the Beltway meaning of the word). It isn't insider trading ideas and policy proposals, it isn't greasing peoples wheels, it isn't presenting a good and rational argument. Its about putting fear into the politicians that they will lose an election. Republicans grasp this and run their policy based on this. Democrats keep on misinterpreting why they win and ignore winning tacitcs based on a mistaken idea about why things were the way they were during the 'good old bipartisan days'

Politicians are empty vessels they are what the situation demands. Obama doesn't grasp that.

 

[zero shift]

Bad news for minimum wage hike supporters:



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...t-minimum-wage-state-beats-u-s-with-jobs.html

Sure, it LOOKS like that's positive news, but imagine how much higher Washington's growth would have been if they DIDN'T enact the minimum wage.

Seeing this made me look up the minimum wage by state. I never knew that some states had a lower minimum wage than the federal and that some had no minimum wage at all.

EDIT - Reading more it seems that is only on some conditions.

 

[speculawyer]

That's the problem with Bams. He never negotiates down. He always tries to negotiate up. That almost NEVER works in daily life, let alone politics.

Well now that Dirty Harry took over some of the negotiations, things are a bit better.

 

[speculawyer]

So Issa is trying to make the fake IRS scandal look like a real scandal by just putting up witness that would repeatedly take the fifth. Congressman Cummings wanted to point some things out such as the fact that they already had someone testify that the white house was not at all involved but Issa didn't want to hear it and shut down the meeting and shut off Cummings microphone.

Cummings got mad and shouted. And basically just looked like angry black man while Issa got his B roll for spewing conspiracy theories.

:-/

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Can someone explain the Earned Income Tax Credit? I'm have a hard time really understanding the wikipedia article.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Can someone explain the Earned Income Tax Credit? I'm have a hard time really understanding the wikipedia article.

Do you have a more specific question, or are you just looking for a general overview?

EDIT: In either event, the IRS website is usually an excellent place to start when researching tax topics. In this case, you should start at this webpage or Publication 596.

 

[bananas]

10/10

Spoiler

I bet very few people in this thread have either PS4 or XB1

I own a bone.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Do you have a more specific question, or are you just looking for a general overview?

EDIT: In either event, the IRS website is usually an excellent place to start when researching tax topics. In this case, you should start at this webpage or Publication 596.

I understand tax credits but how does the scale work?

Its also more of an economic question. How does it get money to working class folks differently than minimum wage. Wouldn't they have to wait till tax season to get the credit or refund?

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Hmm...

 

[Karakand]

I understand tax credits but how does the scale work?

Its also more of an economic question. How does it get money to working class folks differently than minimum wage. Wouldn't they have to wait till tax season to get the credit or refund?

As you work more you earn more of the credit. When you earn X dollars you can no longer earn more credit (i.e. it plateaus) but the credit doesn't begin to phase out until you start earning Y dollars, disappearing completely when you earn Z dollars. (X, Y, and Z vary based on your marital status and the number of children you have. If you're single with no children it's not a very effective anti-poverty measure because the plateau and phase out occur in a very narrow and low income range.)

There used to be advanced EITC payments that you could receive during the year (similar to the subsidies for health insurance under the ACA) before you filed your personal income tax return but that was repealed ca. 2010. You only receive the credit when you file your return now to my knowledge.

Your last question is weird, the EITC exists because the minimum wage is insufficient at keeping people out of poverty. It's a direct cash assistance payment, I thought the economic impact of those was fairly settled in PoliGAF? Unlike many of those however, EITC can be very forgiving with certain taxpayers whose income fluctuates in a broader band. There is also evidence that it encourages people to enter the workforce (I believe single mothers are the most successful demographic) because you can only earn the cash assistance by working and you can only earn more by working more. I would prefer AEITC be returned but people in poverty getting $ 3,000.00 of no strings attached cash assistance in April is still pretty swell.

 

[theprodigy]

As much as I love the dude. This has always been his M.O. He doesn't understand politics IMO.

What I mean by that is he doesn't understand why things change, he know how to win an election but not lead (and I don't mean that in the Beltway meaning of the word). It isn't insider trading ideas and policy proposals, it isn't greasing peoples wheels, it isn't presenting a good and rational argument. Its about putting fear into the politicians that they will lose an election. Republicans grasp this and run their policy based on this. Democrats keep on misinterpreting why they win and ignore winning tacitcs based on a mistaken idea about why things were the way they were during the 'good old bipartisan days'

Politicians are empty vessels they are what the situation demands. Obama doesn't grasp that.

*looks around*
hey where's the MMT economics

We're all poor.

Spoiler

I have a 3DS, does that count

Hmm...

meh
probably doesn't matter

 

[jWILL253]

We have a serious war on the poor right now, and nobody cares.

I just seen the Food Stamps segment of the Daily Show. I know this is Fox News we're taking about, but I've never seen such a blatant demonization of the poor by a mainstream news outlet.

It's disgusting...

 

[Aaron]

Republicans need someone to hate. They can't be racist anymore with their dogwhistles getting exposed, and they're losing the war against gays. Need to pick on a group too tired and hungry to fight back. I can't wait until this all turns around, and they say everything is the fault of the Jews.

 

[Oblivion]

Spoiler

I have a 3DS, does that count

It's a handheld, so no.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Wasn't there something last year that proved/went about saying that PPP polling is junk?

What happened to all that?

 

[Rhomega Beta]

I can't wait until this all turns around, and they say everything is the fault of the Jews.

No, Jews are sacred. Say anything bad about them, and they'll start calling you Hitler or an evil Muslim.

 

[PhoenixDark]

As much as I love the dude. This has always been his M.O. He doesn't understand politics IMO.

What I mean by that is he doesn't understand why things change, he know how to win an election but not lead (and I don't mean that in the Beltway meaning of the word). It isn't insider trading ideas and policy proposals, it isn't greasing peoples wheels, it isn't presenting a good and rational argument. Its about putting fear into the politicians that they will lose an election. Republicans grasp this and run their policy based on this. Democrats keep on misinterpreting why they win and ignore winning tacitcs based on a mistaken idea about why things were the way they were during the 'good old bipartisan days'

Politicians are empty vessels they are what the situation demands. Obama doesn't grasp that.

The thing that is most striking is that he's been president for 5 years and hasn't gotten better, at all, with regard to this. It's just who he is, and clearly he has no intention of changing.

The beginning of the end was when the administration just let OFA wither and die. As a community organizer you would have thought that Obama of all people would realize the importance of having a movement outside of Washington/power focused on holding people accountable, grassroots work, etc. It seemed like that energy could have been used to easily take over a lot of local school and community boards, local elections, etc. In short, to get people involved.

Another thing: he seems to be completely disinterested in governance unless it's passing legislation; if that's the case he should have stayed a senator. For all the 2008 talk about making government efficient, he hasn't done that at all. I like Obamacare but there are certainly things that could have gone a lot better in the hands of a more activist, focused government. Hearing Obama lament the decades long decline of government IT really rustled my jimmies: you're president, you can fix that without congress.

In short I wish Obama worked more with state governments, who tend to understand the importance of government working moreso than their federal counterparts.

 

[Diablos]

Obama was pushing hard for a public option but it would never have passed the Senate. It was blocked by conservative democrats.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I hate to agree with PD but he is right with this. Obama did not vocally support a public option and pretty much laughed at the idea of single-payer.

That was very stupid . . . it was very early Obama naivety. He should have pushed hard for single payer but then settled for a public option. Or at least pushed harder for a single option and then give it to get some more votes or better terms on something.

You gotta move that Overton Window.

Anything stopping States from putting a public option on the exchange?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Anything stopping States from putting a public option on the exchange?

Budget realities

BTW I love all the money Scott Brown is bilking out of people in NE

Brown, the ex-Massachusetts lawmaker now considering a run against U.S. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, is trailing the Democratic incumbent by a 52-39 percent margin in a general election matchup, according to the Suffolk/Herald poll of 800 likely New Hampshire voters.

http://bostonherald.com/herald_radi..._on_scott_brown_new_suffolk_herald_poll_shows

Edit:

LOL good one CPAC

 

[Aaron Strife]

Wasn't there something last year that proved/went about saying that PPP polling is junk?

What happened to all that?

Uh, no?

Nate Silver doesn't like them anymore because he disagrees with their methodology, and he was being a whiny brat about it. And PPP has always been the media's chew toy, who would rather report a new Rasmussen poll than PPP for various excuses.

Yet PPP has consistently nailed the big races - they have their occasional misfires, but overall their track record has been stellar.

 

[PhoenixDark]

A new poll shows that while Gov. Chris Christie's overall job rating among New Jersey voters has stabilized, his marks on a defining issue of his governorship — the Hurricane Sandy recovery effort — have fallen.

The Rutgers-Eagleton poll, released this morning, shows that 54 percent of voters approve of how the Republican governor has handled the state's rebuilding after the 2012 storm. That's a 15-point drop from a January survey and a 26-point slide from November.

Comeback kid.

 

[Joe Molotov]

Hmm...

Not conservative enough.

 

[Diablos]

Comeback kid.

lol.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Some good trolling by the dems here

http://b.3cdn.net/dccc/91bb9bfc2f20501dbf_zkm6bn6ld.pdf

 

[Aaron Strife]

Comeback kid.

So on a scale of Barack Obama to Kay Hagan, how in trouble is Jeanne Shaheen?

 

[WayneMorse]

 

[polyh3dron]

Jeez, obamacare is just a horrible law.

I mean its better than the status quo and will push us closer to single payer. It will save lives, and improve the economy.

But they picked the worst most complicated way to do it. The really screwed up not having a public option. I can't believe the buckled on that. Well, I can but I'm still disappointed. That would have been so much better and such and easy sell politically.

You can thank Max Baucus, Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson for that.

 

[speculawyer]

Some good trolling by the dems here

http://b.3cdn.net/dccc/91bb9bfc2f20501dbf_zkm6bn6ld.pdf

For the lazy . . . original has links explaining the jokes.

Conservative Political Action Conference
March 6-8, 2014 Washington, D.C.
Program of Events

Introduction: Daniel Schneider, Executive Director, American Conservative Union

Session Title: Remarks by The Honorable Paul Ryan, Chairman, Committee to Voucherize Medicare and Privatize Social Security
Speakers: The Hon. Paul Ryan (WI-01)

Session Title: Pregnant Women: Hosts or Mothers?
Speakers: Virginia State Senator Steve Martin (VA-11)

Session Title: Book Signing: How to Make Your Wife Submissive
Speakers: The Hon. Steve Pearce (NM-02)

Session Title: Why Social Security is Really a Ponzi Scheme
Speakers: The Hon. Joe Heck (NV-03), The Hon. Mike Coffman (CO-06), Congressional Candidate Steve Lonegan (NJ-03)

Session Title: The Downside of a Female President
Speakers: Fox News Host Bill O’Reilly

Session Title: Entertainment by Ted Nugent
Speakers: Ted Nugent

Session Title: Workshop: How to Shut Down the Government without the Voter Backlash
Speakers: The Hon. Ted Cruz (R-TX) (Moderator)

Session Title: How to Lose a Campaign in a Swing State
Speakers: Former Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli

Session Title: SuperPACSs: An Investment Strategy
Speakers: Karl Rove (Moderator), David Koch, Joe Ricketts, Harold Simmons

Session Title: The Republican Health Care Proposal
Speakers: TBD

Session Title: The Path to 270 (Obamacare Repeal Votes)
Speaker: The Hon. Eric Cantor (VA-07)

Session Title: Hot Mic Awareness in a Blind Rage
Speakers: The Hon. Michael Grimm (NY-11)

Session Title: Shoot on Sight: An Immigration Reform Strategy
Speakers: Republican Senate candidate Chris Mapp (R-TX)

Session Title: Remarks by Donald Trump, Chairman and President, The Trump Organization
Speakers: Donald Trump, Chairman and President, The Trump Organization

Session Title: Workshop: Data and Targeting 101: Meet The Internet
Speakers: NRCC Intern

Session Title: How to Fend off A Tea Party Primary
Speaker: NRCC Chairman Greg Walden (OR-02)

Session Title: How to Challenge a RINO Speaker: Congressional candidate Dennis Linthicum (OR-02)
Session Title: Off-the-Record Presentation: Our Base Scares Me1
Speakers: The Hon. John Boehner (OH-08)

Session Title: Subsidies vs. Loopholes: Debating the Ultimate Donor Reward
Speakers: The Hon. Kevin McCarthy (CA-23)

Session Title: Why We Can’t Count to 218 Votes
Speakers: Hon. John Boehner (OH-08), Hon. Eric Cantor (VA-07), Hon. Kevin McCarthy (CA-23)
1 This session has been relocated to Marco Island, FL. Merlot and Handkerchiefs will be provided.

Session Title: Family Surrogates: Duck Dynasty or The Duggars
Speakers: Phil Robertson, Jim Bob Duggar

Closing: The Honorable Sarah Palin
Speakers: The Honorable Sarah Palin, former Governor of Alaska

 

[WayneMorse]

Weigel's highlights from CPAC

- Sen. Mitch McConnell saying farewell to his colleague, retiring Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn, by telling the audience that Coburn empties his pockets and goes through metal detectors at the Capitol. "He doesn't have to do it, but he does," said McConnell. "He's the only senator I know who does that every single morning." It was of a piece of McConnell's critique of the Democrats, that they were functionally elitists under whom "the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer."

- Sen. Ted Cruz and Sen. Tim Scott being chased by throngs of college students and international reporters, whipping up such a frenzy that security had to cut off the interlopers at a barrier. Escaping the scrum, I overheard some of the college students comparing notes.

"I just shook hands with Tim Scott."

"That just happened!"

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Should there be an OT CPAC thread? I want to share the joy.

"Obama's in the White House now, you'd better grab your honey,

God and guns are all we need, let's let 'em take the money":

Has there every been a better song lyric? The subtext of that is amazing.

http://youtu.be/2LBbxi0Bc3E?t=2m2s

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Christie union bashing.

Edit: Surprise! MEDIA BASHING!

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Not conservative enough.

PPP's newest Arizona poll finds that John McCain is unpopular with Republicans, Democrats, and independents alike and has now become the least popular Senator in the country. Only 30% of Arizonans approve of the job McCain is doing to 54% who disapprove. There isn't much variability in his numbers by party- he's at 35/55 with Republicans, 29/53 with Democrats, and 25/55 with independents, suggesting he could be vulnerable to challenges in both the primary and general elections the next time he's up.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2014/03/mccain-least-popular-senator-in-country.html

 

[polyh3dron]

A CPAC thread would be fun.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

What would the title be. I want it to be funny but not mean spirited or dismissive

 

[polyh3dron]

What would the title be. I want it to be funny but not mean spirited or dismissive

Something about conservatives getting their message out with the help of liberals since they seem to give more extensive coverage of it

Maybe something simple like "Please Proceed, Conservatives". Since the original quote was referring to Benghazi and much of this event will, it fits.