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PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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Does anyone honestly believe Scalia or Kennedy is going to step down between 2017-2025 assuming Hillary servers 8 years?

Not alive, no.

2025 ages

Ginsberg - 92
Scalia - 89
Kennedy - 88
Breyer - 86
Thomas - 77
Alito - 75
Sotomayor - 71
Roberts - 70
Kagan - 65

No matter who wins 2016, you're gonna see at least two strategic retirements minimum.

Must say, does make me happy that our constitution establishes a compulsory retirement age for public employees at 70. And that our supreme court told the legislators to get fucked when they tried to raise it to 75 for judges.
 

HylianTom

Banned
I don't know how he can hear the story of Jim Obergefell and then tell gays they should have had to wait for the democratic process to play out.

It's just completely heartless.

It's a cop-out. The court's role is precisely to review laws, and he decides upon himself that marriage laws are exempt because of tradition? Bullshit.

I can at least understand some hesitation around finding the "liberty" or "dignity" objections. Those are vague and left up to interpretation. But his refusal to concede what he knows is a clear case gender discrimination (gender's more solid than orientation) in violation of Equal Protection is chickenshit. The wording of the Equal Protection Clause is pretty damn easy to understand.

If Roberts wants to scribble "equal protection of the laws - ***except for laws where tradition dictates otherwise" into the margins of the Constitution, that's not his job. There's an amendment process that he can go through.

Scalia might be the funny joke headliner, but Roberts came out of this one looking absolutely horrid.
 
Not all good things are constitutional and not all bad things are unconstitutional.

However, bans on gay marriage are unconstitutional for a host of different reasons, ranging from due process to rational basis to even sex discrimination.

The feigned sympathy towards the plight of gay couples wishing they could achieve this through the legislative process is uneeded. In even five years, your average American will have no idea how we got here, nor will they care. And real couples won't be harmed. It' a win win.

It's just strange that he contorted himself in a really unexpected way in order to affirm the constitutionality of the ACA individual mandate, but he couldn't reach what seems like such a logical conclusion on the unconstitutionality of SSM bans.

I realize these judges have biases and they have an impact on their rulings, but I find Roberts completely puzzling. I don't get his willingness to repeatedly defend the ACA but his steadfast refusal to recognize the completely valid argument for SSM.

It's a weird sort of selective empathy, I guess.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
It's just strange that he contorted himself in a really unexpected way in order to affirm the constitutionality of the ACA individual mandate, but he couldn't reach what seems like such a logical conclusion on the unconstitutionality of SSM bans.

I realize these judges have biases and they have an impact on their rulings, but I find Roberts completely puzzling. I don't get his willingness to repeatedly defend the ACA but his steadfast refusal to recognize the completely valid argument for SSM.

It's a weird sort of selective empathy, I guess.

A conservative with an empathy problem?!?!
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
It's just strange that he contorted himself in a really unexpected way in order to affirm the constitutionality of the ACA individual mandate, but he couldn't reach what seems like such a logical conclusion on the unconstitutionality of SSM bans.

I realize these judges have biases and they have an impact on their rulings, but I find Roberts completely puzzling. I don't get his willingness to repeatedly defend the ACA but his steadfast refusal to recognize the completely valid argument for SSM.

It's a weird sort of selective empathy, I guess.

Roberts was just trying to get some street cred back with conservatives. If he was the swing vote on the case he'd likely have gone with the liberal justices.

Don't get me wrong, it was a total dick move and he deserves to get shit on for it.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
It's just strange that he contorted himself in a really unexpected way in order to affirm the constitutionality of the ACA individual mandate, but he couldn't reach what seems like such a logical conclusion on the unconstitutionality of SSM bans.

I realize these judges have biases and they have an impact on their rulings, but I find Roberts completely puzzling. I don't get his willingness to repeatedly defend the ACA but his steadfast refusal to recognize the completely valid argument for SSM.

It's a weird sort of selective empathy, I guess.

Yeah, it's absolute horseshit excuse. If something is so obviously unfair, discriminatory and just outright cruel, then we shouldn't fucking wait for the rest of the country to come around on the right side of history.
 

Diablos

Member
Wow, Thomas entered the Court in his early 40's?

He's younger than I thought. He's going to be there forever. Dammit.

I think Ginsburg, Breyer and Scalia will step down at some point in the next five years. Kennedy seems like a guy who has a lot of fight left in him and will probably stay on the court until he dies, or is close enough to it. His remarks on solitary confinement kind of give the impression that he's on a mission, and won't stop until he feels like he's done enough to vote on matters of importance to him. I respect that, even if I disagree with many of his positions.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
QezgVWl.png


can someone edit this to say "by 2017", " Woman President", "Hispanic Vice President"(Castro)

America would have a black president, woman president, hispanic vice president etc by 2017
 
http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/06/carly-fiorina-gains-ground/

A recent poll by the Wall Street Journal and NBC News found that a handful of Republican presidential candidates have seen an increase in support but one of the the biggest jumps went to Carly Fiorina

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul moved in the opposite direction over the same period, with the share of likely GOP primary voters who said they could see themselves backing him falling from 59% in late April to 49% in mid-June. The decline came as Mr. Paul battled fellow Republicans over his effort to end the National Security Agency’s bulk collection of phone records…

Gain Ground was my favorite sega genesis game
 
Never gonna happen. If she gets any significant numbers, she's super easy to tear down just by telling people about her record.
She's been asked about her tenure and she has a lot of impressive stats about how she helped to grow hewlett packard (the growth rate of patents is the only one i can recall at the moment) but i suppose you mean the firings
 

Diablos

Member
What the fuck caused this?
No idea.

Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina all gained significant ground with Republican primary voters in the weeks since they announced their candidacy for the party’s presidential nomination, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll finds.

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul moved in the opposite direction over the same period, with the share of likely GOP primary voters who said they could see themselves backing him falling from 59% in late April to 49% in mid-June. The decline came as Mr. Paul battled fellow Republicans over his effort to end the National Security Agency’s bulk collection of phone records…

The biggest movers in the new survey were Ms. Fiorina and Messrs. Carson and Huckabee.

The share of Republican primary voters who said they were open to supporting Ms. Fiorina, a former chief executive of Hewlett-Packard Co., jumped from 17% in April to 31% in June, about even with the 29% who said they weren’t open to supporting her.
 

Ecotic

Member
Fiorina's effectively used the media victimization angle to get her message out, which is simply "nobody dislikes Hillary more than me". She's been on the Sunday Shows every time for weeks.
 

Jackson50

Member
Wow, she jumped to 31%. That's a huge gain
That's the number of people who could conceivably support her. It's not her actual support. Considering that she's a relatively obscure candidate, I would expect more Republican voters to hypothetically support her once they learn about her. And she's not the only candidate to have made big gains in the poll.
 
Fiorina's effectively used the media victimization angle to get her message out, which is simply "nobody dislikes Hillary more than me". She's been on the Sunday Shows every time for weeks.

It's all glamor and pomp for now, and there is certain coddling involved with Fiorina. Doesn't help the fact that sunday shows are atrocious. Wait till we're in the thick of it and the candidates are forced to sit down with Des Moines Register and actually answer some real questions.
 
What the fuck caused this?

People are just bouncing around from day to day, probably. One week they like one, the next another. I think that's just the nature of having such a big field 1/2 a year away from the first primaries. People are entertaining them until they "get serious" about one come the week before the primary.

On an entirely unrelated note, I just browsed through Steven's decent in DC v Heller while participating in a gun control thread. I certainly agree with the ultimate conclusion that the framers did not intend nor does the Constitution imply completely unrestricted access and usage of personal firearms. However, I have to say, the linguistic reasoning in the beginning of his dissent is pure nonsense.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZD.html

How are you going to say that "the people" in constitutional language applies to groups to the exclusion of individuals? His argument that the Assembly & Petition clause clearly refers to group action is nonsense. Individuals have the constitutional right of petition. And then he says "oh, and clearly the protections of the fourth amendment under the language of "the people" is applied to individuals, but I already said [incorrectly] it didn't apply to individuals in the Assembly & Petition clause of the first, so who can really say?" What... what even is that? And his take on "Keep and Bear Arms" is just pure semantics.

I find his take on the Militia Clause to be slightly more tenable, but he places all the impetus behind the writing of the amendment on the fear of federal disarmament by the states. He ignores the impact of Shay's Rebellion on the provision entirely. Not that Shay's being the impetus invalidates the idea that the amendment was directed towards the right of states as opposed to citizens to keep standing militias, but it's just a big oversight in trying to strengthen that argument.

His argument on the militia clause falls apart though because it's only foundation is his incredibly weak argument that "the people" implies the state by means of referring specifically to group action. Also when you look at the actual text of the amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It's clear that the primary clause of the sentence is the "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not infringed" and the militia clause is an introductory clause. He calls it a preamble, but I don't think that flies if it's just one sentence. I'm sorry, but if the framers intended the amendment to guarantee the right of the individual states to maintain armed militias, why wouldn't they have written "the right of the state to keep and bear arms/the right of the state to keep a standing armed militia shall not be infringed." They were smart men, if they wanted to imply that the right was applicable to the state at the exclusion of individuals they would have written exactly that.

Like I said, I disagree with the majority opinion and outcome of Heller but the first section of this dissent is just godawful. Am I off the mark here?
 
She's been asked about her tenure and she has a lot of impressive stats about how she helped to grow hewlett packard (the growth rate of patents is the only one i can recall at the moment) but i suppose you mean the firings

I've already experienced one Fiorina campaign, she is a horrible candidate and even worse campaigner, all around.

Also if she gets any serious traction, the other candidates have all the material they need to obliterate her.
 
Gingrich and santorum thought they could destroy romney and he had more baggage for conservative voters to consider than fiorina does
But then again, in terms of establishment support fiorina is certainly no romney
 
I really, really hate when people call the ACA universal healthcare.

It's clearly not genuinely universal healthcare in the form proponents of universal healthcare want, and calling it that is essentially claiming victory in a fight not yet won instead of actually fighting to win it.
 

Tamanon

Banned
That's the number of people who could conceivably support her. It's not her actual support. Considering that she's a relatively obscure candidate, I would expect more Republican voters to hypothetically support her once they learn about her. And she's not the only candidate to have made big gains in the poll.

Talk about burying the lede of Jeb Bush vastly increasing his number.
 

pigeon

Banned
I really, really hate when people call the ACA universal healthcare.

It's clearly not genuinely universal healthcare in the form proponents of universal healthcare want, and calling it that is essentially claiming victory in a fight not yet won instead of actually fighting to win it.

Contrariwise, I think people who say we need "real universal healthcare" are selling the ACA way short, which is why I usually call it universal healthcare.

We got guaranteed issue, community rating, bans on rescission, price regulation, expanded public insurance, and subsidies for low-income people. True, it's not single-payer, but every American should (if states had cooperated) have guaranteed access to health insurance, of a required level of quality, at a reasonable price. That's a pretty big deal! It's very, very close to health care as universal as any other country.
 
Contrariwise, I think people who say we need "real universal healthcare" are selling the ACA way short, which is why I usually call it universal healthcare.

We got guaranteed issue, community rating, bans on rescission, price regulation, expanded public insurance, and subsidies for low-income people. True, it's not single-payer, but every American should (if states had cooperated) have guaranteed access to health insurance, of a required level of quality, at a reasonable price. That's a pretty big deal! It's very, very close to health care as universal as any other country.

And, just as importantly, unlike every proposed reform for the last hundred-or-so years, it's actually there as a stepping point to "real universal healthcare".
 
Contrariwise, I think people who say we need "real universal healthcare" are selling the ACA way short, which is why I usually call it universal healthcare.

We got guaranteed issue, community rating, bans on rescission, price regulation, expanded public insurance, and subsidies for low-income people. True, it's not single-payer, but every American should (if states had cooperated) have guaranteed access to health insurance, of a required level of quality, at a reasonable price. That's a pretty big deal! It's very, very close to health care as universal as any other country.

A lot of universal health care systems aren't single-payer. Why not say this conservative idea alongside some liberal tweaks is working better than expected? I don't think making stuff up about guaranteed access or how close the US is to other countries is going to change anyone's mind that wanted something more progressive.
 

Jackson50

Member
I really, really hate when people call the ACA universal healthcare.

It's clearly not genuinely universal healthcare in the form proponents of universal healthcare want, and calling it that is essentially claiming victory in a fight not yet won instead of actually fighting to win it.
The ACA is near universal healthcare. It wasn't designed to provide universal coverage; that would be true even if every state expanded Medicaid. True universal healthcare remains the goal. But the benefits of the ACA should not be diminished. Millions of Americans now have access to health insurance or public healthcare. That's an accomplishment considering the repeated failures to reform healthcare in the past.
 
I don't think it's been posted, but Barney Frank comin' in with a hot take down of Scalia's dissent in Obergefell.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...riage-ruling-119480.html?hp=c2_3#.VY_AR6YmQgQ

Apparently, Justice Scalia has come to realize that since public opinion in America has moved away from anti-LGBT prejudice, heavily salting his writings with a personal distaste for the idea that we should enjoy the same rights as our heterosexual brothers and sisters weakens the appeal of his legal reasoning. (Compare his angry screed in the sodomy case, essentially justifying the criminalization of private sexual conduct between consenting adults, with Justice Clarence Thomas’s terse statement that while he would have voted against the “silly” Texas statute in question, he believed it was a deeply flawed judgment that the Legislature was constitutionally permitted to make.) So in an unexplained abandonment of his vigorously anti-LGBT prior stance, Justice Scalia asks that his pronouncement that the Court’s opinion calls our democracy into question be judged not on the substantive issue, but as an expression of his view that “allow[ing] the policy question of same-sex marriage to be considered and resolved by a select, patrician, highly unrepresentative panel of nine is to violate a principle even more fundamental than no taxation without representation: no social transformation without representation.”

Also, I didn't realize that Rand had yet to make any statement about the SSM ruling. He's making a real habit of this. "Leading from behind," indeed

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...supreme-court-ruling-2016-119500.html?hp=l1_3
 

Diablos

Member
How Mitt Romney saved Obamacare

lol, Mitt can't do anything right.
Neither can you, apparently! Ba-dum-tish :p

Romney and "such Exchange" saved the ACA. Shit, a lot of things saved the ACA. Conservatives will call it "cherry picking" but in all honestly there's so much in there that validates the fact that the law always intended for subsidies, either via a state exchange or the federal fallback.

"Such" is my new favorite word.

Reading Scalia's dissent, it's even more clear (amazing such a thing would be possible) that he's a hater and a troll. His dissent reads more like an op-ed than it does a well-written dissent that we'd come to expect from the Court.

Also I love how Roberts called them out...

L4ZBiim.png


It's like they have absolutely no shame in hiding their bias. It's pretty obvious to me that they just wanted to gut the law because they don't like it.

I really, really hate when people call the ACA universal healthcare.

It's clearly not genuinely universal healthcare in the form proponents of universal healthcare want, and calling it that is essentially claiming victory in a fight not yet won instead of actually fighting to win it.
I really hate it when people trash talk the law. It's a necessary step forward in order to obtain literal 'universal healthcare' someday. It's far from perfect but it's vastly superior to the way things were pre-ACA. The level of uninsured Americans is at a record low, and even if you aren't on the Exchange (i.e. getting insurance through work) you are still benefiting from the reforms in some way. Even with Democrats dominating all three branches of Government circa 2010, this was about as good as it got. We can't change to a single-payer system overnight. This, however, paves the way for such a law to be enacted someday.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Can someone edit your post? Socialist president, female vice president. Sanders and Warren.

Sanders has zero chance in a general election. Sanders beating Hillary means President Bush, Rubio, or Walker.
 

Diablos

Member
The delusion I am witnessing among some of my fellow Democrats that Sanders is somehow going to make it to the general is concerning to me. Please don't place all of your hopes on this man. It's unrealistic, and when he loses in the primary, I fear it will harm Democratic enthusiasm heading into 2016.
 

Owzers

Member
The delusion I am witnessing among some of my fellow Democrats that Sanders is somehow going to make it to the general is concerning to me. Please don't place all of your hopes on this man. It's unrealistic, and when he loses in the primary, I fear it will harm Democratic enthusiasm heading into 2016.

i'm not going to come to neogaf and read your disrespect for future President Sanders.
 
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