Support NeoGAF

[brainchild]

I've been doing some reading on Bernie this evening, and I ran into some interesting articles.

First, a really good piece on his personality behind the scenes that also outlines his impressive executive performance as mayor of Burlington. This is a really good article that has a mix of unflattering and flattering information in it: Bernie Sanders - Cold as Ice

And this piece about Bernie's legislative accomplishments in the house and Senate. Despite his reputation for being an uncompromising ideologue, he has been very effective in his own way. During the period between 1994 and 2006, Bernie passed more amendments than any other member of the house, despite the fact that the house was controlled by republicans.

Finally, this piece on why Bernie wanted someone to primary Obama in 2012. A lot of people may have forgotten how badly the president caved to republicans during his first term. I remember being really disappointed in him during this same time period. I think the democratic party is trying to Reaganize him now, and I think it's a mistake to do so. I also think Hilary's insinuation that she will be Obama's third term is her weakest argument. She has her own record, and her own unique style. If she wins, she will be a totally different kind of president than Obama, and she needs to do a better job of telling voters what she's really all about.

Yeah, I've known this for quite a while, but the narrative has already been spun and there's not much anyone can do about it. I've posted his excellent Congress report card on poliGAF and I don't think a single person responded to it. Likewise, you're not likely to get many responses to your post.

Bernie needs to work on promoting himself better because his resume is pretty damned good but his talking points make him seem like he doesn't have a single pragmatic bone in his body.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Why is it terrible?

It's terrible if you assume they are just being courted for the primary, if the intention is to retain them it's pretty much the whole Clinton vs Trump gives Clinton an advantage with moderates thing slightly rephrased.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I think it's bad timing with all these Republican groups calling for Republicans to caucus for Sanders and then caucus for their own party 3 days later.

Then Bernie's lucky that video was released three days ago. I mean, the video is an overview of the entire caucus process. Mentioning that republicans can register as democrats if they want to support Bernie is a totally legitimate thing that someone can do and that information takes up 10 seconds of the whole 2 and a half minutes. That wasn't even the issue, it was that the 15% viability rule doesn't apply statewide while the video assumes it does. If you're running a campaign and don't give people that might want to support you the information needed to do so, you're running a shit campaign. There's no reason not to include the information they did.

If anyone watches that video and thinks "Bernie's trying to get republicans to support him just to undermine Hillary" I'd say that person is terribly desperate.

 

[johnsmith]

That these Trump comments are getting no traction in the media (three hours old now) is fucking sad. Nobody cares that Trump fantasizes about killing brown people.

It's Friday night.

 

[Krowley]

Yeah, I've known this for quite a while, but the narrative has already been spun and there's not much anyone can do about it. I've posted his excellent Congress report card on poliGAF and I don't think a single person responded to it. Likewise, you're not likely to get many responses to your post.

Bernie needs to work on promoting himself better because his resume is pretty damned good but his talking points make him seem like he doesn't have a single pragmatic bone in his body.

Agreed. He seems to be allergic to selling himself. He only wants to sell the message. It's one of his strengths in some ways, but it's leaving him open to attacks at the moment.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

It's Friday night.

True, I guess :/

 

[Makai]

If it's legal and it helps Bernie win the primary, good for Bernie.

 

[Aaron Strife]

SCOTUS denies stay to NC's big fat mess of a gerrymander. The three judge panel will now review the maps that still give a 10-3 advantage to the GOP. It's possible even this new map could be denied.

Come on court drawn map.

I had a thought, I lost it. Tricky little devils.

 

[danm999]

If the party doesn't like what Bernie does they should change the rules. Until then, all's fair.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Why is it terrible?

Because I really don't want the Republicans picking the nominee of the Democratic party. I don't want them involved in the process at all, honestly. I'm frankly of the opinion that the Republicans have nothing worth offering to the country, and the idea of them playing a part in selecting the guy who'll run against their guy skeeves me out.

It's one thing if they've decided to move over whole hog, but encouraging them to pop over and vote for Bernie and that's all is...

Ugh.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

If the party doesn't like what Bernie does they should change the rules. Until then, all's fair.

Then people will just complain like they do about superdelegates.

 

[brainchild]

I mean I don't doubt that it's well intentioned (and the little girl is adorable), but asking encouraging Republicans to caucus for the Dems is... well, it's terrible. No two ways about it.

I don't see the problem. Nor would I see this as a problem if it came from Hillary's camp. Are republicans not allowed to change their minds? Or better yet, are they not allowed to be strategic in the primaries?

Agreed. He seems to be allergic to selling himself. He only wants to sell the message. It's one of his strengths in some ways, but it's leaving him open to attacks at the moment.

The sad thing is that he's even less likely to promote himself in the general election.

I do understand why he does it though. Notice he uses 'we' and 'us' a lot, which is 100% necessary for a political movement. Can't just be about Bernie. Still, if you're attacked, that's the time to tout your accomplishments.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I mean I don't doubt that it's well intentioned (and the little girl is adorable), but asking encouraging Republicans to caucus for the Dems is... well, it's terrible. No two ways about it.

You realize there are republicans who genuinely support Bernie and probably appreciate this information, right? There was an anecdote in NH about a republican who wanted to vote for Bernie but couldn't since she was registered republican, so she wrote him in on a republican ballot. Unfortunately for her, that vote is counted entirely separately. Nonetheless, those people who don't spend time discussing politics on the internet need this information. It's not subverting democracy, it's making sure people who support you are aware that they can. If a voter abuses that ability, the onus is on that person, not any candidate.

 

[SenorArdilla]

You mean Bernie is like some sort of old martial arts teacher trying to teach Hillary an important life lesson as ineffectively as he can?

 

[RustyNails]

I remember the Operation Something something being done in 2008 as well for cross party voting in primaries. Nothing came out of it.

Frankly I think the amount of people that are willing to wake up in the morning, drive to the whatever caucus place, stay for 2-3 hours to caucus against the other side in order to subvert the democracy, while altogether trying to hide the imposter syndrome is miniscule. You have to be dedicated as fuuck to do that, or a person who needs to see a psychiatrist.

 

[Poodlestrike]

You realize there are republicans who genuinely support Bernie and probably appreciate this information, right? It's not subverting democracy, it's making sure people who support you are aware that they can. If a voter abuses that ability, the onus is on that person, not any candidate.

Sure, there's probably a handful. But how big is the cross section of people who are republicans, people who are interested in voting for Bernie, and people whose ideologies we want driving the Democratic primary process?

 

[Elaugaufein]

Then people will just complain like they do about superdelegates.

Yes, is that a problem ? I mean theres plenty of people willing to handwave the superdelegates heck Kirblar goes to bat for it every time it comes up.

 

[Yoda]

I think it's bad timing with all these Republican groups calling for Republicans to caucus for Sanders and then caucus for their own party 3 days later.

The majority of politicos who vote in primaries and caucuses aren't going to go out of their way to cast an inconsequential vote in the other party's primary.

 

[RastaMentality]

So we're gonna get Nevada results around 3pm ET with SC coming at night?

 

[Macho Madness]

So we're gonna get Nevada results around 3pm ET with SC coming at night?

Likely, yes.

 

[Elaugaufein]

Sure, there's probably a handful. But how big is the cross section of people who are republicans, people who are interested in voting for Bernie, and people whose ideologies we want driving the Democratic primary process?

That's assuming we agree on what ideologies we want driving the Democratic party. I kinda suspect that's untrue. There's like 3 different groups just in this thread (court the centre, social issues, economic issues) and even thats an oversimplification since the groups aren't exclusive and the way they are interpreted can vary.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Sure, there's probably a handful. But how big is the cross section of people who are republicans, people who are interested in voting for Bernie, and people whose ideologies we want driving the Democratic primary process?

If Facebook likes are anything to go by, there's about 23,000 republicans who support Bernie. And if they do so, I assume their ideology in some way aligns with his.

 

[RedFyn]

That's part of the problem. He shouldn't be sending Republicans mail in a closed caucus.

Well, I mean I get that view but I don't think that inherently makes his strategy bad. I think you would have to find something that he's not doing and then say he would be better off doing that instead. I'm sure there are other things he could be doing that may or may not be more successful, that's why I asked why you were saying what you were.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I say it every day

Every night

Every afternoon.

And it's so true.

I hope Trump dies from drowning.

 

[Macho Madness]

Oh my god Cruz is the biggest snake there ever was.

CLEMSON, S.C. — A new robocall going out to South Carolina voters on the eve of the state's Republican primary blasts Donald Trump as pro-gay and urges listeners to vote for Ted Cruz, according to a source who received the call Friday night.

The source, who resides in a Republican-heavy part of Columbia, S.C., requested anonymity to describe the call, but he is not connected to any of the campaigns, and says he is not even registered to vote.

He said the robocall begins with a recording of a gay-rights activist asking Trump if there would still be progress for LGBT people under his presidency. Trump's answer — at least as it is represented on the recording — is positive.

The narrator on the recording goes on to denounce Trump as being pro-gay, before listing a series of high-profile legal battles that cast the expansion of LGBT rights as a threat to religious freedom. The robocall concludes by telling voters that only Cruz can be trusted to protect conservative Christians in these culture war battles.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppin...p-as-pro-gay-urges-south-carolini#.paWw13L0my

 

[dramatis]

If Rubio wins SC this Republican primary will turn upside down

Again

ivy where's my Hollywood Election 2016 Cinematic Universe

Every candidate can get a movie at this point

 

[Poodlestrike]

That's assuming we agree on what ideologies we want driving the Democratic party. I kinda suspect that's untrue. There's like 3 different groups just in this thread (court the centre, social issues, economic issues) and even thats an oversimplification since the groups aren't exclusive and the way they are interpreted can vary.

True, but, again, I'm assuming that Republican voters are Republican for a reason; there's no reason to think that most of them don't agree with most of the Republican positions. Although, admittedly, a lot of them are further left economically than they think they are. But still.

If Facebook likes are anything to go by, there's about 23,000 republicans who support Bernie. And if they do so, I assume their ideology in some way aligns with his.

That seems like an unsafe assumption to me, unless we're classifying "fuck da man" as an ideology now.

---

I realize that this sort of thing will have a negligible impact (unless we get some truly impressive get-out-the-vote efforts from the R side of things), but I really dislike it on principle.

 

[Makai]

Bernie says he's expanding the party. One way to do that is Republican outreach.

 

[Jay-Hova]

I've been doing some reading on Bernie this evening, and I ran into some interesting articles.

First, a really good piece on his personality behind the scenes that also outlines his impressive executive performance as mayor of Burlington. This is a really good article that has a mix of unflattering and flattering information in it: Bernie Sanders - Cold as Ice

And this piece about Bernie's legislative accomplishments in the house and Senate. Despite his reputation for being an uncompromising ideologue, he has been very effective in his own way. During the period between 1994 and 2006, Bernie passed more amendments than any other member of the house, despite the fact that the house was controlled by republicans.

Finally, this piece on why Bernie wanted someone to primary Obama in 2012. A lot of people may have forgotten how badly the president caved to republicans during his first term. I remember being really disappointed in him during this same time period. I think the democratic party is trying to Reaganize him now, and I think it's a mistake to do so. I also think Hilary's insinuation that she will be Obama's third term is her weakest argument. She has her own record, and her own unique style. If she wins, she will be a totally different kind of president than Obama, and she needs to do a better job of telling voters what she's really all about.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-radical-past-how-the-vermont-230255076.html
This is another great article on his history, he has a pretty interesting history for someone who started off as the mayor of Vermont.
Honestly it'd be a storybook moment in a way if he became president (not that that's a factor in deciding who to vote for).

 

[Holmes]

Bernie says he's expanding the party. One way to do that is Republican outreach.

It probably kills Sanders a little inside whenever he has to talk nicely about the Democratic Party and Obama.

 

[Basileus777]

I don't really see any legitimate complaint about people changing parties to participate in a single caucus (ie not doing both).

True, but, again, I'm assuming that Republican voters are Republican for a reason; there's no reason to think that most of them don't agree with most of the Republican positions. Although, admittedly, a lot of them are further left economically than they think they are. But still.



That seems like an unsafe assumption to me, unless we're classifying "fuck da man" as an ideology now.

Why are you acting like membership in the Democratic party requires adherence to some sort of ideology instead of being something that anyone can register as for a variety of rational and irrational reasons? There's no litmus test and Republicans changing registration because they want to participate aren't any less legitimate than anyone else.

 

[RustyNails]

.

 

[Jay-Hova]

It probably kills Sanders a little inside whenever he has to talk nicely about the Democratic Party and Obama.

Obama campaigned for him in 06 and Bernie has campaigned for other democrats.
He's not someone who just hate's the democratic party, he just doesn't believe they're immune from criticism.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

If Rubio wins SC this Republican primary will turn upside down

Again

ivy where's my Hollywood Election 2016 Cinematic Universe

Every candidate can get a movie at this point

If anyone but Trump were leading, we wouldn't even be entertaining the idea of someone 16-ish points behind the frontrunner winning the primary.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I don't really see any legitimate complaint about people changing parties to participate in a single caucus (ie not doing both).


Why are you acting like membership in the Democratic party requires adherence to some sort of ideology instead of being something that anyone can and do register as for a variety of rational and irrational reasons?

The one gaping hole in my argument I was hoping nobody would point out

Yeah, I really can't deny that. Still rubs me the wrong way. After all the damage Republicans and the people who vote for them have done, I don't like encouraging them to start interfering in the affairs of the party I'm actually fairly fond of.

 

[Foffy]

.

"Of course the Pope would go for the Jew!"

"He probably doesn't even believe in God!"

"Stay out of politics! Get back in the church!"

What's said here is I'm trying to mock, but these are legit claims from those of anti-reason.

 

[Macho Madness]

Dunn Republican David Lewis did, in fact, "freely admit" that on the House floor before today's vote. "I think electing Republicans is better than electing Democrats," Lewis said, "so I drew this map to help foster what I think is better for the country."

How in the hell can you get away with that?

 

[GnawtyDog]

What's up with Bernie?

Playing tricks? ehh...

 

[Holmes]

Obama campaigned for him in 06 and Bernie has campaigned for other democrats.
He's not someone who just hate's the democratic party, he just doesn't believe they're immune from criticism.

It's one thing to disagree and criticize, it's another thing to openly call for him to be overthrown by a primary challenge. Especially after getting his help in his 06 Senate race. Really sad.

 

[GnawtyDog]

They're not fake voters and strategic voting isn't anything new or particularly heinous. The harsh words against it are probably toothless.

Is that what we are calling it? lol cmon now...

 

[CDX]

If it's legal and it helps Bernie win the primary, good for Bernie.

If the party doesn't like what Bernie does they should change the rules. Until then, all's fair.

Then if Bernie wins Nevada and it's found out it was because of registered Republicans, and it's found out they still voted in the Republican primary.

Well, then nobody can complain if the Nevada Superdelegates go about correcting that obvious Republican mischief by not going along with the official tampered results. That would be perfectly in-line with the rules.

 

[RedFyn]

So we're gonna get Nevada results around 3pm ET with SC coming at night?

Doors open at 11pst and "close" at 12 so I wouldn't expect results at 3 est. The fact that you can register at the caucus location probably means that some locations will take longer. Plus there's always the inevitable card draw to add some time.

 

[Diablos]

It's clear to me that Bernie is on the brink of doing irreversible damage to the Democratic Party. He doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. His campaign is a left wing populist Petri dish that has no skin in the GE game. He's incredibly short sighted and arrogant. It's like he's in a bubble filled with people who think just like he does...

 

[danm999]

Then if Bernie wins Nevada and it's found out it was because of registered Republicans, and it's found out they still voted in the Republican primary.

Yeah if this comes out it'll look terrible for Bernie and Clinton can say the GOP is trying to McCaskill him.

 

[Diablos]

Yeah if this comes out it'll look terrible for Bernie and Clinton can say the GOP is trying to McCaskill him.

No one will care. The media will crave a tight race and Berniebots will cry foul. All a conspiracy, man. Hilary's concerns will be drowned out.

 

[Krowley]

Some of the people who vote republican are basically libertarians. Bernie holds a lot of views that would appeal to those people on issues like drugs, military spending, and privacy. Basically, he's willing to take some pretty radical positions that mainstream politicians shy away from, and libertarians love that. I suspect that a certain portion of the Ron Paul Crowd really like Bernie.

He's also got a very strong populist message. His opposition to the free trade agreements and outsourcing of jobs is something that a lot of lower income republicans sympathize with. Donald Trump basically agrees with Bernie on issues like china and free trade, which is one of the reasons he's getting so much traction. There are a lot of republicans who vote mostly on social issues who have fairly liberal views on a lot of economic subjects, and those people have been growing in numbers since the economic collapse. A lot of people who used to work $15.00 an hour jobs in factories are working for shit wages at Walmart or Burger King now, and none of the mainstream politicians want to talk about finding a fix for that issue. The economy has recovered, but most of the benefit went to the very rich. Poor republicans see that too, and they don't like it. Some of them are ready to abandon their social concerns and vote with their pocket books.

 

[Effect]

No one will care. The media will crave a tight race and Berniebots will cry foul. All a conspiracy, man. Hilary's concerns will be drowned out.

If this scenario takes place watch the entire party openly start doing everything they can to make sure Hillary wins. Things between Sanders and the Dem party already is kinda iffy. Let's be real here. He may have caucused with the Dems but he only joined in order to run because he couldn't on his own. A move like that might be a step to far.

 

[Jay-Hova]

It's clear to me that Bernie is on the brink of doing irreversible damage to the Democratic Party. He doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. His campaign is a left wing populist Petri dish that has no skin in the GE game. He's incredibly short sighted and arrogant. It's like he's in a bubble filled with people who think just like he does...

If he was short sited he wouldn't have stated multiple times he wouldn't run third party if he loses the primary.
Curse Bernie for fighting for the American populace.

 

[danm999]

The media will call Nevada a tight race unless Clinton wins by like +10 or something. It doesn't really matter.

 

[Poodlestrike]

If he was short sited he wouldn't have stated multiple times he wouldn't run third party if he loses the primary.
Curse Bernie for fighting for the American populace.

There's a difference between being short sighted and being perfectly blind, which would be what a third party run would be. He can be one without being the other.