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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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B

Basileus777

Member
Diablos said:
It's clear to me that Bernie is on the brink of doing irreversible damage to the Democratic Party. He doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. His campaign is a left wing populist Petri dish that has no skin in the GE game. He's incredibly short sighted and arrogant. It's like he's in a bubble filled with people who think just like he does...
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I see you're set on taking back your title from cartoon_soldier.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Jay-Hova said:
If he was short sited he wouldn't have stated multiple times he wouldn't run third party if he loses the primary.
Curse Bernie for fighting for the American populace.
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Lol of course he wont. He doesn't want to lose the privilege of going to the high-dollar DSCC funded retreats.
Some guests said they were surprised to see the populist crusader at these lavish events and suggested he was probably in it for the free vacation.
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C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Poodlestrike said:
Because I really don't want the Republicans picking the nominee of the Democratic party. I don't want them involved in the process at all, honestly. I'm frankly of the opinion that the Republicans have nothing worth offering to the country, and the idea of them playing a part in selecting the guy who'll run against their guy skeeves me out.

It's one thing if they've decided to move over whole hog, but encouraging them to pop over and vote for Bernie and that's all is...

Ugh.
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A) We did this (both HRC and Obama) in '08, and we sure as hell encouraged Dem votes for Santorum in 2012.

B) McCaskill'ing the GOP is a fantastic amount of fun :D

RustyNails said:
I remember the Operation Something something being done in 2008 as well for cross party voting in primaries. Nothing came out of it.

Frankly I think the amount of people that are willing to wake up in the morning, drive to the whatever caucus place, stay for 2-3 hours to caucus against the other side in order to subvert the democracy, while altogether trying to hide the imposter syndrome is miniscule. You have to be dedicated as fuuck to do that, or a person who needs to see a psychiatrist.
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ivysaur12 said:
That's part of the problem. He shouldn't be sending Republicans mail in a closed caucus.
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The hypocrisy here from Hillary fans is unbelievably real. We're trying to do it for Trump now, we did it for Santorum in 2012. But all of a sudden turnabout isn't fair play? Wow. Hell, the GOP did it for Obama in 08 (lol, funny how that worked out).

Diablos said:
It's clear to me that Bernie is on the brink of doing irreversible damage to the Democratic Party. He doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. His campaign is a left wing populist Petri dish that has no skin in the GE game. He's incredibly short sighted and arrogant. It's like he's in a bubble filled with people who think just like he does...
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You need a history book that goes back to 2008. This primary is kind as hell.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Cybit said:
A)The hypocrisy here from Hillary fans is unbelievably real. We're trying to do it for Trump now, we did it for Santorum in 2012. But all of a sudden turnabout isn't fair play? Wow. Hell, the GOP did it for Obama in 08 (lol, funny how that worked out).
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I'm not saying it isn't fair. I'm just saying it doesn't have any worthwhile effect. We always go through this dog and pony show every 4 years.
 
C

Cerium

Member
Cybit said:
We're trying to do it for Trump now, we did it for Santorum in 2012. But all of a sudden turnabout isn't fair play? Wow. Hell, the GOP did it for Obama in 08 (lol, funny how that worked out).
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Gonna need to see some evidence of Democrats actually organizing support for Trump or Santorum. I mean, I want my Predictit money as bad as anyone but I'm not really doing anything to help the man.

Also you're wrong about 2008. Operation Chaos was meant to support Hillary in order to drag out the primary.

In late February 2008, Limbaugh announced "Operation Chaos," a political call to action with the initial plan to have voters of the Republican Party temporarily cross over to vote in the Democratic primary and vote for Hillary Clinton, who at the time was in the midst of losing eleven straight primary contests to Barack Obama. Limbaugh has also cited the open primary process in the early primary states of New Hampshire and South Carolina, which allowed independent voters to cross over into the Republican primaries to choose John McCain over more conservative candidates (such as Fred Thompson), as an inspiration.
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This just goes to show which camp is actually old enough to remember 2008.
 
B

billeh

Member
Holmes said:
It probably kills Sanders a little inside whenever he has to talk nicely about the Democratic Party and Obama.
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The very same party that blew it in 2012 by running against their incumbent president's accomplishments.

They deserve all the criticism they get. Maybe they'll evolve a spine.
 
D

dramatis

Member
OrangeGrayBlue said:
If anyone but Trump were leading, we wouldn't even be entertaining the idea of someone 16-ish points behind the frontrunner winning the primary.
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The only thing I'm interested in is how many more twists can be put into the 2016 Republican primary. It's not 'entertaining the idea of someone 16-ish points behind the frontrunner' winning, it's 'entertaining the idea of more entertainment'.

The thing I'm anticipating the most out of the Republican race right now is the next Super Deluxe video.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
billeh said:
The very same party that blew it in 2012 by running against their incumbent president's accomplishments.

They deserve all the criticism they get. Maybe they'll evolve a spine.
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Guessing you meant 2010/2014.

Man I feel you but at the same time you see people like Feingold go down and I think it's more than a "people running away from Obama" problem. Begich, Pryor, Landrieu and Hagan all ran on Obama achievements and still lost.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
RustyNails said:
I'm not saying it isn't fair. I'm just saying it doesn't have any worthwhile effect. We always go through this dog and pony show every 4 years.
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I know; but let's be honest, we know it does absolutely nothing, and everyone getting all morally righteous about shit they've supported the last several elections is hypocritical as hell. It ain't gonna do shit, and I would put money down that HRC, after Super Tuesday (assuming it is locked up by then), if the GOP hasn't coalesced around someone, is absolutely going to do whatever it takes to get people to primary in such a way that it either nominates Trump or forces a brokered convention.

Cerium said:
Gonna need to see some evidence of Democrats actually organizing support for Trump or Santorum. I mean, I want my Predictit money as bad as anyone but I'm not really doing anything to help the man.

Also you're wrong about 2008. Operation Chaos was meant to support Hillary in order to drag out the primary.
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Incorrect. The second half of the GOP effort (Limbaugh's actual "Operation Chaos" was towards Hilary, but the first half of the GOP operation (non publicly stated) was towards Obama. The overall point was to draw out the election - at the beginning, Obama was seen as the person drawing it out, but after Obama started to take the lead, it switched to Clinton. I remember this because we would get GOP primary voters calling us occasionally asking us how to caucus for Obama in the beginning, and we had to do a lot of tweaking database wise to account for primary vs general election.

As for Trump - this is where I point out that if random democratic leaning folks are putting money on Trump and rooting for Trump to win so they can win the GE - what do you think the actual political advisers of the Dem party are doing (besides wondering if Cruz is more hilariously poisonous than Trump, somehow)?
 
A

Armaros

Member
billeh said:
The very same party that blew it in 2012 by running against their incumbent president's accomplishments.

They deserve all the criticism they get. Maybe they'll evolve a spine.
Click to expand...

The Democratic voting bloc really came out to support the President when they let Republicans take over in 2010 and rewrite the districts.
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
billeh said:
The very same party that blew it in 2012 by running against their incumbent president's accomplishments.

They deserve all the criticism they get. Maybe they'll evolve a spine.
Click to expand...

2014 too.

dramatis said:
The only thing I'm interested in is how many more twists can be put into the 2016 Republican primary. It's not 'entertaining the idea of someone 16-ish points behind the frontrunner' winning, it's 'entertaining the idea of more entertainment'.

The thing I'm anticipating the most out of the Republican race right now is the next Super Deluxe video.
Click to expand...

The Super Deluxe videos have really been the best part of all this.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
This election

http://www.reviewjournal.com/politi...bituary-hillary-clinton-prompts-report-secret

The Las Vegas Review-Journal on Friday reported a possible threat related to Democratic presidential candidate Hilary Clinton after a man tried to place an obituary notice for the former Secretary of State.

The man, who identified himself as Don Schubert, was asked to leave the newspaper building's lobby after he filled out a standard obituary form identifying the deceased as Hillary Rodham Clinton, and listing her date of death as Feb. 20, 2016, the date of Saturday's Democratic Party presidential caucuses. Previously he had called the newsroom to complain about the coin flips that determined the outcome of some Iowa caucuses last month.

The man was seen leaving the RJ parking lot in a maroon Toyota Prius bearing several Bernie Sanders campaign stickers. A security guard said he was also wearing a Sanders sticker on his shirt. The official Sanders campaign website lists "Don Schubert's House" in Long Beach, Calif., as the site of a volunteer phone bank.

Newspaper security officials reported Schubert to the U.S. Secret Service.
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C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Cerium said:
There was never an Operation Chaos to benefit Obama. I don't know where you're coming up with that stuff.
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See my edit: Op Chaos was the Gingrich specific aspect - but the primary manipulation was done from the very beginning. I believe Game Change may talk about it, and I believe some Obama staffers talk about it in interviews in 2008. I lump all primary manipulation from one party onto another in one bucket - whether it's radio hosts or the actual party elders, the general idea is the same.
 
D

Drakeon

Member
Cybit said:
See my edit: Op Chaos was the Gingrich specific aspect - but the primary manipulation was done from the very beginning. I believe Game Change may talk about it, and I believe some Obama staffers talk about it in interviews in 2008.
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As someone who followed the entire 2008 primary (from 2007 onward), no it wasn't. It was something that Limbaugh cooked up to try and prop up Hillary. That's it, it never benefited Obama.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Drakeon said:
As someone who followed the entire 2008 primary (from 2007 onward), no it wasn't. It was something that Limbaugh cooked up to try and prop up Hillary. That's it, it never benefited Obama.
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I remember getting a lot of Republicans on the phone banks who wanted to go for Obama in the beginning, and IIRC, the crossover at the end was only 10% or so (compared to 7-8% of Dems who ended up going for McCain, which is surprisingly smaller than was expected). I have always assumed that was GOP folks trying to drag the whole thing out from the beginning.

EDIT: I always thought McCain would get more crossover because of how moderate he was and how much Dems liked him in 2000/2004. Still, the point remains - one party trying to fuck with the other party's primary is not exactly new, nor did anyone complain about it. So I still find it highly hypocritical that HRC supporters are getting on Bernie's case about it (like he has anything to do about it) but sure as heck didn't say anything back in 2008 when Gingrich was pushing HRC. (Mind you, Gingrich actually wanted Obama as the candidate ultimately, see http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/07/limbaugh.obama/)

Fundamentally; it's going to do basically nothing. The SEC is going to happen, and this primary is going to be over.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
Cybit said:
I remember getting a lot of Republicans on the phone banks who wanted to go for Obama in the beginning, and IIRC, the crossover at the end was only 10% or so (compared to 7-8% of Dems who ended up going for McCain, which is surprisingly smaller than was expected). I have always assumed that was GOP folks trying to drag the whole thing out from the beginning.
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huh, so THAT'S what that proportion wound up being
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
eBay Huckster said:
huh, so THAT'S what that proportion wound up being
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I'm convinced that had he nominated a sane VP, that could have been 12%+. (But I'm always Chicken Little on such things). I think Palin ended that election. I think that sealed his "shift to the right" for a lot of moderates, and lost him a lot of votes.

LOL; found a link talking about the 2012 Santorum effort

https://popehat.com/2016/02/19/marc...d-participate-in-saturdays-democratic-caucus/

This happened again in 2012, when liberal blog Daily Kos attempted “Operation Hilarity,” urging Democratic readers to vote for Republican candidate Rick Santorum in order to complicate the GOP primary for the eventual nominee. However, Santorum’s campaign actually contacted Michigan Democrats, asking them to vote in the Republican primary to make it more difficult for Romney. Although 9% of Michigan GOP primary voters were Dems, and over half voted for Santorum, Romney still won the primary and, later, his party’s nomination.
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S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
The idea that Bernie is doing permanent damage to the Democratic Party is just silly. The GOP will nominate some nut, everyone will wake up and realize that they don't want Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio to be nominating SCOTUS justices or dismantling executive orders, and the people who voted for Obama will go vote for Killary. Then, in 2018, the Dems'll get fucking creamed, then in 2020 or 2024, some other candidate will permanently damage the Dems all the way to victory, and the cycle will begin anew.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
Ted Cruz wants to turn the US into Russia, but what type of country would Trump try to make America into (can't list past American eras, just the closet modern comparisons)?
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
Lesbihonest, Huma.

That cough finally caught up to HRC.

So, here's a conundrum somewhat related to prior discussion:
Socially liberal, black East Coast investment banker earning a $100K+ salary, NAFTA/CAFTA/TPP supporter, wants less regulation, doesn't want to see taxes on his capital rise or think there should be free college.

Socially conservative - actually let's just go borderline racist - Southern white minimum wage worker, who wants and would benefit from a large increase in the minimum wage, universal healthcare, free college, higher taxes on the rich and doesn't want to see the US engaging in international conflict or trade.

Which one would feel more at home in the current Democratic party? Which one would you want as a supporter? Can you balance both?
 
C

Cerium

Member
shinra-bansho said:
Lesbihonest, Huma.

That cough finally caught up to HRC.

So, here's a conundrum somewhat related to prior discussion:
Socially liberal, black East Coast investment banker earning a $100K+ salary, NAFTA/CAFTA/TPP supporter, wants less regulation, doesn't want to see taxes on his capital rise or think there should be free college.

Socially conservative- actually let's just go borderline racist - Southern white minimum wage worker, who wants and would benefit from a large increase in the minimum wage, universal healthcare, free college, higher taxes on the rich and doesn't want to see the US engaging in international conflict or trade.

Which one would feel more at home in the current Democratic party? Which one would you want as a supporter? Can you balance both?
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First one, no question. I support the TPP. Not thrilled about deregulation and the rest but I can live with sharing a party with that guy.

The second one is just a Bernie Bro.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
FloydtheFathead said:
No.. I need to know now.
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I second this.

<3

shinra-bansho said:
Lesbihonest, Huma.

That cough finally caught up to HRC.

So, here's a conundrum somewhat related to prior discussion:
Socially liberal, black East Coast investment banker earning a $100K+ salary, NAFTA/CAFTA/TPP supporter, wants less regulation, doesn't want to see taxes on his capital rise or think there should be free college.

Socially conservative- actually let's just go borderline racist - Southern white minimum wage worker, who wants and would benefit from a large increase in the minimum wage, universal healthcare, free college, higher taxes on the rich and doesn't want to see the US engaging in international conflict or trade.

Which one would feel more at home in the current Democratic party? Which one would you want as a supporter? Can you balance both?
Click to expand...

It depends on which of those priorities is the most important; it's fairly simple IMO. In the current Dem party - social liberalism has taken a massive priority (as seen by HRC's lead and the push from GWB and onward for the GOP party), and so I'd go with option A. But both should vote Dem, IMO.
 
B

BoboBrazil

Member
Diablos said:
It's clear to me that Bernie is on the brink of doing irreversible damage to the Democratic Party. He doesn't care about the consequences of his actions. His campaign is a left wing populist Petri dish that has no skin in the GE game. He's incredibly short sighted and arrogant. It's like he's in a bubble filled with people who think just like he does...
Click to expand...

Yep, he keeps throwing shade at Hillary and then when she defends herself he has the nerve to call it a low blow like at the last debate.
 
C

Cerium

Member
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Ted Cruz wants to turn the US into Russia, but what type of country would Trump try to make America into (can't list past American eras, just the closet modern comparisons)?
Click to expand...

Tough one. There isn't a perfect parallel.

I think he would aspire to be Singapore, but ironically end up with something closer to China.

Yeah I'm gonna go with China.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Cerium said:
He's doing well among white southerners.
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He's doing well among white lower-middle class folks, not all white southerners. Upper middle class white southerners and above, as well as older (and correlatively, more racist) white southerners, Clinton is doing much better. r squared for the win.
 
M

Makai

Member
China is apt. Manufacturing focus. Musilm exclusion. Cosy private/public cooperatives. Large scale building projects. Silencing "dishonest" press.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
rgEewjD.gif
 
M

Meowster

Member
PoliGAF, dunno if you know much about him, but I'm looking into the primary senate race for my state (Missouri) and I am liking what I am reading about Jason Kander and my incumbent Roy Blunt. I've been hearing positive things about Kander from other Democrats around but I was wondering if any of you had heard much about him or if he has a chance against Blunt? I'm looking into donating to his campaign.
 
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