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PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black

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re: that Mitch McConnell thing. I think congressional leaders (and smart GOPers) are all too aware that their "mandate" was because of Democrats being lame and staying home rather than some permanent new GOP coalition. I'm sure they are taking their own wave elections of 2010 and 2014 into consideration about the backlash to whatever they do over the next few years. Now they not only have to worry about angry and motivated Democrats but their own base which expects them to fix everything and kick out all the brown people.

There is some of kind of bizarro joke in that GOP control might actually benefit vulnerable Dems in 2018 depending on how it goes. But of course considering this thread it's been 2 days and we are already doomed.
 

BiggNife

Member
re: that Mitch McConnell thing. I think congressional leaders (and smart GOPers) are all too aware that their "mandate" was because of Democrats being lame and staying home rather than some permanent new GOP coalition. I'm sure they are taking their own wave elections of 2010 and 2014 into consideration about the backlash to whatever they do over the next few years. Now they not only have to worry about angry and motivated Democrats but their own base which expects them to fix everything and kick out all the brown people.

There is some of kind of bizarro joke in that GOP control might actually benefit vulnerable Dems in 2018 depending on how it goes. But of course considering this thread it's been 2 days and we are already doomed.

Honestly the vibe today seems a bit more optimistic and more "okay what do we do next" whereas yesterday was (understandably) like 90% gloom and doom
 

Pixieking

Banned
You are wrong. If in 2016 the DNC doesn't understand what motivates people to vote the responsibility lies solely with them. During the primary process you all screamed at Bernie supporters, you denigrate them at every opportunity and them smugly told them to fall in line without even giving the VP spot as a way to unify with people THAT WANTED to vote for the Democrats, and were as rabid as the Trump supporters and younger. Hillary did this to us, she made the campaign about her instead of providing value to the base of the party. A bad candidate promoted by an echo chamber of people out of touch with those that disagree with them.

What on Earth do you want that adds value to the base of the party. What does that mean? Should I go through the list of policies that she was wanting to do?

Ensure Roe v Wade is held (via SCOTUS appointment), mental health policies, renewable energy policies, college tuition policies, drug use policies, crime/BLM policies, LGBTQ policies, equal pay policies. Oh, and she was willing to help fund NASA. Oh, and she believed Climate Change was real.

I cannot understand how you can claim this as nothing. Especially not against a Trump/Pence ticket that favours gay conversion therapy and rape victims with child have to carry their attackers child to term (or abort and hold a funeral for it).

Words just fail me.
 

TyrantII

Member
THE VOTES FROM CALIFORNIA HAVEN'T BEEN COUNTED YET.

Mmkay.

You can't compare turnout until the biggest state in the union has its votes counted.

You can look at other states turnout state by state, it show the same issue.

Democrats stayed home. The Sarah Palin Party Tea Party Trump Party actually decreased their turnout as well, but not by much.

Any debrief on what actually happen and how to go forward needs to be based on where the hell 10 million voters went from 2008. and its going to be complicated, from the candidate herself having weaknesses to voter suppression from the GOP, and the utter failure of the media to talk about the issues and instead get the GOP's slander arm (because hey, emails are more important than any policy).
 

tuffy

Member
So, if the GOP Congress gets into a head to head with Trump, wouldn't it be a strange development if Trump cut ties and became the first "Independent President" of the U.S., remote but a possibility with the way he handled the primary.
I've seen this on a smaller scale with governor Arne Carlson who only got the nomination due to a freak scandal and spent much of his career at odds with a far more conservative party leadership. I'm not expecting Trump to pivot into anything resembling a moderate, but I do believe he's going to spend a lot of time battling the GOP.
 
You can look at other states turnout state by state, it show the same issue.

Democrats stayed home. The Sarah Palin Party Tea Party Trump Party actually decreased their turnout as well, but not by much.

Any debrief on what actually happen and how to go forward needs to be based on where the hell 10 million voters went from 2008. and its going to be complicated, from the candidate herself having weaknesses to voter suppression from the GOP, and the utter failure of the media to talk about the issues and instead get the GOP's slander arm (because hey, emails are more important than any policy).

agreed. Priority one is firing those people up again
 
FL+NC give Democrats the win in 2020 even without MI/WI/PA/AZ/GA/NH/IA/OH. The easiest path next time is to focus on those two plus MI/WI/PA.

The electoral math and demographics still favor Democrats. That didn't change overnight. The fact that the most disliked candidate in history only lost by a hair is a testament to that. All is not lost folks.

This differs from 2004 because the demographics weren't there for Kerry in Florida and it all came down to one state=Ohio. Not so in 2020.
 

tuffy

Member
Obama needs to come out on tv in front of the world and shame Trump. He shouldn't be working with him. This feels so wrong.
Obama doesn't want to see the country go up in flames, no matter who's in charge of it. There'll be plenty of time to oppose Trump's policies on the campaign trail a couple of years from now.
 
Obama needs to come out on tv in front of the world and shame Trump. He shouldn't be working with him. This feels so wrong.

A smooth transition of power is one of the cornerstones of democracy, and Obama doesn't want to be on the hook for being the person that burned the house down.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Obama needs to come out on tv in front of the world and shame Trump. He shouldn't be working with him. This feels so wrong.

Has to for peaceful transition of power, I imagine once that is done he will come out swinging and staying in politics longer then he thought he would.
 
Obama needs to come out on tv in front of the world and shame Trump. He shouldn't be working with him. This feels so wrong.
The problem with that is he's done it before, and Trump still won. Doing this after the election has finally wrapped up would stink of sour grapes and pettiness. Both are unbecoming of an outgoing president.
 

BiggNife

Member
FL+NC give Democrats the win in 2020 even without MI/WI/PA/AZ/GA/NH. The easiest path next time is to focus on those two plus MI/WI/PA.

The electoral math and demographics still favor Democrats. That didn't change overnight. The fact that the most disliked candidate in history only lost by a hair is a testament to that. All is not lost folks.

Yeah.

If Trump won the popular vote by a large margin I'd be like "whelp guys we're fucked"

But he didn't. She won it. Hillary lost because they underestimated WI/MI and they couldn't get Obama level turnout with a candidate who has 30 years of baggage.
 
Obama needs to come out on tv in front of the world and shame Trump. He shouldn't be working with him. This feels so wrong.

No, he doesn't. He's the President, the head of state. The campaign is over, it's now the peaceful transition of power. We all have our reservations and even outright fears about Trump as President, but it's not for President Obama to wear on his sleeve. Pass the baton, hope for the best, rejoin the fight in 2018 or as soon as the situation warrants (which, again, is not right now).
 

dramatis

Member
You are wrong. If in 2016 the DNC doesn't understand what motivates people to vote the responsibility lies solely with them. During the primary process you all screamed at Bernie supporters, you denigrate them at every opportunity and them smugly told them to fall in line without even giving the VP spot as a way to unify with people THAT WANTED to vote for the Democrats, and were as rabid as the Trump supporters and younger. Hillary did this to us, she made the campaign about her instead of providing value to the base of the party. A bad candidate promoted by an echo chamber of people out of touch with those that disagree with them.
She didn't do anything to you. She extended an olive branch to Sanders and gave him concessions. Allowing protest at the DNC, branches were extended again and again and all Hillary got was the perpetuation of the 'rigged' narrative and "both of them are equally bad".

If that crowd was actually so ardent about progressive ideals, they should have voted for a future from which those progressive ideals could be planted and nurtured. You speak of an echo chamber, but are the Sanders supporters not ensconcing themselves in one to talk about how shitty Hillary's campaign tshirts were? Because that was what was important?

And what good is the VP spot? The idea that it should have been conceded to Sanders is incredibly stupid, largely because he would be more effective in the Senate, where you would want him possibly chairing committees!

In the end they didn't actually care about progressive ideals, they cared about their moral purity. They never WANTED to vote for Democrats, all of them went re-registering as independents after they finished sitting as DNC delegates. You want to villify Hillary because it is easy to blame her, but this woman ran a campaign about inclusion. Her campaign cooperated behind the scenes with Sanders campaign demands, on the platform, on getting DWS removed, on more debates. These overtures were not returned until a month after she sealed the deal. And even then the busters were Never Hillary. They were the ones who made the election about her, for them, rather than about policy.

Her campaign was not about her. The campaign shat out a book on policy. The videos on her youtube channel released over the duration of the campaign were video stories of the people who benefited from policies and legislation that Hillary helped pass. The focus has been on those people. Just not the people that you wanted focus on or the policies that you wanted focus on.

The media circus ended up fixating on the candidates in the campaign regardless of what policies Hillary wanted to talk about instead. That is outside her campaign's control.

The Sanders supporters screamed a lot too, and they were worse than ardent Hillary supporters because they allowed sexism and racism to fester within their ranks. So there is no high ground there.
 

Pixieking

Banned
This is hilarious lol. I can see why Wall Street is going to be happy. In terms of economics, he will probably give them everything they want.

More grist to the mill for the WWC conversion back to the Dems. "Hey, guys, you know how you were made redundant right before Christmas, and then your sister's friend died of a heroin overdose the day after? Yeah, well, right before Thanksgiving, Trump was giving jobs to Wall Street bankers who think coke and hookers at Vegas is a weekend getaway!"

We can so do this, people.
 

Blader

Member
It's even more silly to have President-Elect Donald Trump and say "Kander doesn't have enough experience!"

It's not so much the lack of experience that could I see being problematic, it's the fact that he ran one Senate race and lost. "He's a loser, he's a big loser, he choked like a dog like Romney" is exactly the kind of attack line I can see Trump rolling out. And how do you respond to that? Because he did lose.
 

Ryuuroden

Member
So, if the GOP Congress gets into a head to head with Trump, wouldn't it be a strange development if Trump cut ties and became the first "Independent President" of the U.S., remote but a possibility with the way he handled the primary.

Trumps the type of person I can see using this election and incoming friction to attempt to create a new political party he leads.

He will use his presidency to push a bunch of candidates he likes for the house and senate in two years and who will be beholden to him.
 
Trump is going to make it so easy to campaign against him.

Especially if he actually goes through with his tax cut for pass throughs that directly benefits his family's business. It's so blatant that I cant imagine him going through with it, but he might be dumb enough to.
 

Dierce

Member
This is hilarious lol. I can see why Wall Street is going to be happy. In terms of economics, he will probably give them everything they want.

That was the idea all along, they were afraid of the optics but judging from the stock market reaction now they probably received a ton of reassurance. They were expecting stability but now they see an opportunity to screw everything in sight. but...but...but the speeches to wallstreet...
 

bachikarn

Member
What many people are completely missing is that the WWC voters weren't necessariy voting exclusively for Trump. They fucking hate Hillary. They really 100% believe she is corrupt. I have multiple family members 100% believe that she "has blood on her hands" due to Benghazi. These people think she should be in jail, not in the oval office. In their view, Trump may be a racist but he is not a criminal. Compounding that was Hillary's complete failure to even attempt to appeal to these people. She is viewed as the enemy to them, in the same way Trump was viewed as enemy to Latinos. Can you think of a better motivation to vote?

Hillary is the most untrusted candidate of all time. People fucking hate her and she still almost won.

WWC voters aren't stupid. They are misguided, but not stupid. In their view the choice was between a guy who says horrible things but is relatable and fun to listen to, and a criminal harpy who has committed murder. The policies do not matter AT ALL to low information voters.

I really think it's that simple. The way to appeal to this small group of WWC voters who abandoned the Democrats is to have a better fucking candidate. Someone who can speak to them with respect and who doesn't have years of baggage. If he is pro-gun, even better. He wouldn't be viewed as the enemy and that would be enough to pick up the small number of white voters needed to tilt the election.

No need to abandon minorities or do anything drastic like that. Everyone focuses on Trump's appeal but people really despised Hillary and were motivated to prevent a criminal from taking the White House.

Think there is a lot of truth to this. I ways always shocked how many people I talked to who at best were indifferent to Hilary. The hate was real. I'm also not in some conservative area. It was South Florida and Seattle. I always dismissed it as anecdotal evidence, especially with the strong leads in the polls.
 

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
As much as people here like to say Bernie would have lost because he's a self-identified socialist, Bernie was well like regardless and hit the same nerve Trump did in those Midwest states Hillary lost. I'm not confident he could have won overall, but I do feel confident he would have won Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. People just hated Hillary too much, even if it was largely unfair. Enough were willing to vote for a bigot or other because how much they disliked her.

But whatever, I don't want to hamper on it forever so I'm not going to argue or bring it up again. We all need to move together for the future and not hold onto to what could have been for too much longer. We're all still in shock and mourning.
 

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
You are wrong. If in 2016 the DNC doesn't understand what motivates people to vote the responsibility lies solely with them. During the primary process you all screamed at Bernie supporters, you denigrate them at every opportunity and them smugly told them to fall in line without even giving the VP spot as a way to unify with people THAT WANTED to vote for the Democrats, and were as rabid as the Trump supporters and younger. Hillary did this to us, she made the campaign about her instead of providing value to the base of the party. A bad candidate promoted by an echo chamber of people out of touch with those that disagree with them.


If they were as rabid as Trump supporters, Bernie would have won the Primary..simple as that.


Yep, this is so damning. I even remember posting during the convention that weren't spending enough time on issues that affect the rustbelt, Brooklyn issues are not Ohio suburbs issues.
 
That was the idea all along, they were afraid of the optics but judging from the stock market reaction now they probably received a ton of reassurance. They were expecting stability but now they see an opportunity to screw everything in sight. but...but...but the speeches to wallstreet...

I'll never forget, months ago, arguing with people that Trump *was* a wall street candidate and it was insane to think he would be harder on them than Clinton would be.

I guess I get a cookie.
 
You are wrong. If in 2016 the DNC doesn't understand what motivates people to vote the responsibility lies solely with them. During the primary process you all screamed at Bernie supporters, you denigrate them at every opportunity and them smugly told them to fall in line without even giving the VP spot as a way to unify with people THAT WANTED to vote for the Democrats, and were as rabid as the Trump supporters and younger. Hillary did this to us, she made the campaign about her instead of providing value to the base of the party. A bad candidate promoted by an echo chamber of people out of touch with those that disagree with them.

Did you vote?
 

Yep, there were warning signs and the campaign fucked up. I mean to be fair to them their big data operation told them to focus elsewhere, but they had so many resources that to essentially ignore large swaths of the electorate was dumb. I'm not going to say that she would have gotten the Trump supporters, but the lack of attention paid to the more centrist people who were maybe willing to get out there in vote was a huge blunder. The deplorable comments didn't help. Ultimately, I will continue to blame the racists who elected this fucker, but this was a winnable election that got too bogged down by arrogance. Bill, Bernie, and Biden needed to be camped out in those spaces.
 
No, he doesn't. He's the President, the head of state. The campaign is over, it's now the peaceful transition of power. We all have our reservations and even outright fears about Trump as President, but it's not for President Obama to wear on his sleeve. Pass the baton, hope for the best, rejoin the fight in 2018 or as soon as the situation warrants (which, again, is not right now).

Donald Trump is a racist megalomaniac. He deserves different treatment from any president elect before him. Trump will wreck the country in those 2 years with his appointments.
 
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