PoliGAF 2016 |OT15| Orange is the New Black

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Crab said:
You don't understand. They don't want handouts. Obamacare is a handout, or feels like one. They don't want to have someone else pay for their healthcare, they want to be able to pay for their healthcare themselves and have the dignity of knowing that they didn't have to rely on the government. As long as you keep talking about Obamacare and benefits and welfare, you're still not getting it. You need to talk about jobs. You need to talk about pride and dignity and a way of lief.
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You need to lie.
 
I wanna give Sam Bee a hug before the show she has to tape tomorrow.

Edit: Also, on Trump's ground game... He didn't need a ground game. He has the strongest and most prolific ground game you can ever hope for: The national media.
 
Can you imagine a Donald Trump - the Donald Trump we've learned so many terrible things about and seen such an endless stream of offensive and embarrassing moments from - can you imagine that man with the vindication of the popular vote?

It's like watching your school's bully get endorsed by all the teachers and some of the Board of Education.

He's going to somehow take things to an entirely new level of batshit crazy and insensitive.

Nobody's going to take our country seriously anymore except for the fact that an adult toddler has nuclear launch authority.
 
ampere said:
Yeah I can't sleep. I don't know if I can drive to work tomorrow
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I just started to nod off and the deplorables around me started launching their fireworks. Now I have a frightened dog and an upset toddler to deal with. It's the day that keeps on giving.
 
Is that NBC graph accurate? Did she really lose that hard in the female Demo?

If there is one thing she SHOULD have carried it's women.
 
I'd love to see what the internal numbers of the Clinton campaign are. Did they see this coming or are data driven campaigns dead?
 
ampere said:
Wait for the older generation to die off? I honestly don't know otherwise

Maybe a cratering 4 years will make people rush to the Democrats
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It's our only hope now.

And I'm not sure even that is enough, somehow Republicans will be able to blame Dems for all the terrible shit they are about to unleash on us.
 
I don't want to be that guy, but waiting another hour and conceding would have been a better move than waiting till tomorrow.

Either way, the world is doomed, but still.
 
Toxi said:
You need to lie.
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These posts are depressing. As long as you see things this way, the Democrats are never winning again. I don't know how to explain it any more. It should be obvious now. I am just so sad at how people in this thread are just completely blanking out at what is screaming at them in the face. At least if we were learning the lessons, this might have just been a four year setback.
 
Crab said:
You don't understand. They don't want handouts. Obamacare is a handout, or feels like one. They don't want to have someone else pay for their healthcare, they want to be able to pay for their healthcare themselves and have the dignity of knowing that they didn't have to rely on the government. As long as you keep talking about Obamacare and benefits and welfare, you're still not getting it. You need to talk about jobs. You need to talk about pride and dignity and a way of lief.
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Bernie stumped for Universal Healthcare, and Hillary has talked about jobs. She's just a fucking realists.
 
Crab said:
You don't understand. They don't want handouts. Obamacare is a handout, or feels like one. They don't want to have someone else pay for their healthcare, they want to be able to pay for their healthcare themselves and have the dignity of knowing that they didn't have to rely on the government. As long as you keep talking about Obamacare and benefits and welfare, you're still not getting it. You need to talk about jobs. You need to talk about pride and dignity and a way of lief.
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This is borderline racist bullshit. The white people we're talking about love handouts more than anyone else. So much so they hate seeing anyone else receive them.
 
Fragamemnon said:
Basically. We made all our markers here in NC-Wake by 20, Charlotte by 30, Durham by 60, etc. The numbers were there and the votes we wanted were there.

And we still got beaten badly. How do you ever make up that ground?
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Yup, this is a much bigger problem than which candidate ran. White, uneducated voters turned up to fuck up brown people, burn down DC, and flip off "the establishment" that they blame for all their ills.

Reality does not matter. They don't care that 30 years of Reaganomics caused their ills. They'll lash out and burn it all down.

How do you combat that when normalizing institutions have eroded, the media is inept to combat it, and the GOP echo machine pumps in a stead stream of propaganda?

Demographics are changing, but they won't before that demo takes everything with their declining relative position in society. That's the problem the Democrats face.
 
CrimzonSamurai said:
A significant percentage of those people don't have the qualifications for service jobs. Nor are there actually many service jobs available in their areas. I couldn't find a job anywhere in SC (rural and Charleston) even with a BA in English, moved to DC and got a temp-to-hire gig in two weeks. Northern relocations and nepotism keep those jobs locked away, and Clem with maybe but probably not even GED is just watching his house collapse around him.
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When I talk about service jobs I'm including retail.

I think democrats should run on a platform of improving working conditions (min wage, holidays, paternity leave) instead of handouts. But even then it'll be seen as class warfare or some shit.
 
Democrats can't just start talking about bringing back manufacturing jobs as if Republicans haven't already staked out that talking point and convinced the public that Democrats are evil socialists/communists.
 
Crab said:
These posts are depressing. As long as you see things this way, the Democrats are never winning again. I don't know how to explain it any more. It should be obvious now. I am just so sad at how people in this thread are just completely blanking out at what is screaming at them in the face. At least if we were learning the lessons, this might have just been a four year setback.
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I mean, Trump just won on the lie that he can bring back manufacturing jobs.

It... can't happen.
 
Averon said:
Are Democrats in an even worse position than they were in 2004? It sort of feels that way.
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Dramatically worse. 2010 losses and redistricting put us at a huge disadvantage, and we've hung on mostly due to the executive. Now we have nothing and no way to get back.

Again, this loss is existential. This isn't a 2000 fluke or a 2004 tough scrap vs. an incumbent who ran a solid campaign. This is a change to the way presidential elections are won in this country in a way that is both extremely potent and completely disarming to Democrats.
 
Crab said:
These posts are depressing. As long as you see things this way, the Democrats are never winning again. I don't know how to explain it any more. It should be obvious now. I am just so sad at how people in this thread are just completely blanking out at what is screaming at them in the face. At least if we were learning the lessons, this might have just been a four year setback.
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No, I'm seeing things your way. I agree you are absolutely on the money with how the language matters.

The thing is, those jobs aren't happening. So you have to lie. Because the truth sucks. That's what Trump did, and look how it worked.
 
Stolen of Japanese Twitter (it's really depressing right now)-- Allegedly a major exit poll showed 23% of "More liberal than Obama" preference as Trump voters. I wonder who that could possibly be! Disclaimer: There are far more people to blame than one niche demographic.
 
You know, if Hillary won tonight Trump probably wouldn't concede and would be trying to challenge the results in every state he could. Go fuck yourself, Corey.
 
bomma_man said:
When I talk about service jobs I'm including retail.

I think democrats should run on a platform of improving working conditions (min wage, holidays, paternity leave) instead of handouts. But even then it'll be seen as class warfare or some shit.
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Nobody in the world actually desires a retail job. It's not a "real" job. You try and pitch them that and they just see themselves a Wal-Mart greeter for life.
 
Fragamemnon said:
Basically. We made all our markers here in NC-Wake by 20, Charlotte by 30, Durham by 60, etc. The numbers were there and the votes we wanted were there.

And we still got beaten badly. How do you ever make up that ground?
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The only hope is that these voters are not actually partisan & "racist" (in their minds where racism is a binary thing and of course they're not racist), and that this is simply a strong anti-establishment swing that can be captured by a candidate on either side, especially if Trump royally fucks things up as expected.
 
Crab said:
These posts are depressing. As long as you see things this way, the Democrats are never winning again. I don't know how to explain it any more. It should be obvious now. I am just so sad at how people in this thread are just completely blanking out at what is screaming at them in the face. At least if we were learning the lessons, this might have just been a four year setback.
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Crab, maybe it's time for you to accept that there are people here who are going to suffer and die while you do game theory and advocate for the Democrats to sell the people who are suffering and dying out.
 
Fragamemnon said:
Dramatically worse. 2010 losses and redistricting put us at a huge disadvantage, and we've hung on mostly due to the executive. Now we have nothing and no way to get back.

Again, this loss is existential. This isn't a 2000 fluke or a 2004 tough scrap vs. an incumbent who ran a solid campaign. This is a change to the way presidential elections are won in this country in a way that is both extremely potent and completely disarming to Democrats.
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Agreed.

This is just a fucking rout by the GOP. We laughed at them, but Trump, Reince and co. apparently got this shit right.
 
People need to stop worrying about what Hillary did wrong

They need to worry that blatant racism and bigotry is a valid path to victory for America politics. They need to worry about the future where these tactics can suppress people.

Democrats need to fight back. But they're soft tongued. They're reaching over the aisle. They need to hit back hard and they did it too late. They failed. Democrats failed tonight. They will fail 2 years from now.

The only way we crawl out of this hole, is if Trump somehow manages to tank the economy to catastrophic levels.
 
elvisaintdead said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but watching this makes me think that nobody reads it. Lots of well-done journalism WAS done during this cycle. Nobody read it.
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No, you're definitely not wrong. But the life of those who did their jobs well is only going to get exponentially worse/difficult for them with this result. Somehow, someway, there's gotta be a way to get more eyes on their work rather than the shitfest that goes "viral" on the internet these days. It's important we support them.
 
If there's anything positive to take from the electoral map it's AZ. If this election went as expected, I'm positive it would have flipped.
 
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