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[Hindl]

The fuck...

Sanders is starting to wear thin on me again

 

[benicillin]

The fuck...

We're about to see some nasty fights play out.

Within context it's not as bad really.

Bernie Sanders said Monday that the path to success for Democrats has to be through more than just identity politics, adding that it’s simply not enough for the party to base its appeals on diversity.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic Presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.

Sanders spoke during a book tour stop in Boston, according to video and a transcript of his answer, and was answering in response to a question about advice for an aspiring politician who wants to become the second Latino senator.

 

[Debirudog]

I don't give a fuck anymore.

Seriously, shit like this is why I'm reminded why Sanders loses his appeal on me. Hillary didn't overplay the woman card, and if she did, there's fucking nothing wrong with wanting to break the damn glass ceiling because while she was a bad candidate, she would have made a damn fine president. Sanders should fuck off with that kind of rhetoric.

 

[metalslimer]

Within context it's not as bad really.

That doesn't make it any better. He just needs to come out and say what he wants to say and that is white people need more attention since they make up the majority of the country. At least then he would be being honest.

 

[Debirudog]

Like it's fucking wrong to be proud of being a female politician in the midst of rampant sexism in politics???

 

[Suikoguy]

That doesn't make it any better. He just needs to come out and say what he wants to say and that is white people need more attention since they make up the majority of the country. At least then he would be being honest.

I'm still of the opinion there is a reason he moved to Vermont.

Frankly, Sanders is a Hidden Cancer on the Democratic Party.

 

[Kid Heart]

Did y'all talk about Ellison on Keepin' it 1600 yet? I wasn't impressed at all

Spoiler

no wonder Bernie likes him.

I mean, he completely lost me at coffee shop meetups. I do think that Democrats NEED to acknowledge that their base trends younger, and come up with some different ideas to keep the party visible at times other than election years. But I needed to hear some wonkiness. Ellison reminded me of being on the steering committee of a college student organization, and not in the good way.

DNC chair is not a popularity contest. Save that for actual politicians running for office. DNC chair needs somebody who knows how to organize, recruit, and strategize.

I wasn't getting the impression that Lovett wasn't too impressed, either.

Maybe Co-Chair it with Dean then? Ellison can focus on the millenial voting bloc part time while Dean focuses on the rest of the group full time. I think that's a better way to go based on what I'm hearing.

 

[benicillin]

That doesn't make it any better. He just needs to come out and say what he wants to say and that is white people need more attention since they make up the majority of the country. At least then he would be being honest.

I'm not really interested in villifying any wing of the democratic party right now, since we need everyone to work together to make sure the national nightmare ends in 2018 or 2020.

EDIT:

Like this.

I'm still of the opinion there is a reason he moved to Vermont.

Frankly, Sanders is a Hidden Cancer on the Democratic Party.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm not really interested in villifying any wing of the democratic party right now, since we need everyone to work together to make sure the national nightmare ends in 2018 or 2020.

EDIT:

Like this.

The Fucker just insinuated Clinton needed to be more than a women when his opponent ran on "Trump that Bitch".
She clearly was more than that.

So, No.

Berniebros will glaze over the comment, since they hate her so much.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm not really interested in villifying any wing of the democratic party right now, since we need everyone to work together to make sure the national nightmare ends in 2018 or 2020.

EDIT:

Like this.

I'm not villifying any wing of the party. I think that Sanders is just a terrible person to be leading the democratic party that is currently very much focused on intersectionality. And it strikes me inept for a liberal to be whining about identity politics. All he had to say in that instance was that we need to be better at reaching out to everyone, but he can't help himself from complaining about how much focus the democrats have on diversity. You can listen to someone like Warren speak on these issues and there is a night and day difference.

 

[Debirudog]

Sanders often comes off as being horrendously tone-deaf and insensitive to the point where it makes me dislike him at times. I usually try to overlook what he says but this comment just completely boils my blood.

 

[Particle Physicist]

David Fahrenthold
David Fahrenthold‏ @Fahrenthold

Also, @realDonaldTrump's charity got $150K frm activist Ukrainian mogul who gave to Clinton Fdn, raising conflict of interest Q's for HRC.

Fuck this country and fuck the people who chose not to vote against this asshole.

It's cool, Trump said conflicts of interest don't matter.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I'm not sure where people got the idea that Hillary ran purely on the idea that she's a woman. Just look at literally any of the Presidential Debates alone and its clear she had actual policy plans.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

She mentioned being a woman, like, once in the entire campaign. When she did the "Deal Me In" thing and made a couple million in like 2 days off it.

Other than that, it wasn't really anything she made a huge deal about.

 

[Crocodile]

Within context it's not as bad really.

Why would he say that in response to that sort of question? I dunno if the right word choice is "tone deaf" but it seems just inappropriate here. I also get really pissed off when people, especially liberals, complain about "identity politics" as if White Nationalism didn't just win the election or as if these issues aren't super important to PoC or as the Democratic party doesn't already care about economic issues too.

 

[Dan]

Within context it's not as bad really.

Yes it is. Sorry, but between his obvious priorities during the primary and statements like this, we know where he stands. Bernie is happily joining Trump in a race to the bottom regarding minority groups' concerns.

Interview from today:

GQ: Heading into the election, there was a sense that demographics were on the Democrats’ side and that the election would come down to Clinton’s ability to motivate certain groups of traditional supporters to get to the polls—as opposed to persuading undecideds. Do you think that view has been completely wiped out?
Bernie Sanders: I’m not a great fan of demographics. I think the assumption is that African-Americans and Latinos will vote against many Republicans because they perceive them as anti-immigrant or racist. Or [Republicans will be perceived as] sexist, and so women will vote. And that’s fine. There’s truth to that. But you can’t run a campaign—you can’t run a party—based on the facts that some of your supporters will vote against Republicans because of a, b, and c reasons: racism, sexism, homophobia. You need to stand for something! It’s not good enough to say, “Well, I’m not a racist, I’m not a sexist, I’m not a xenophobe, I’m not a homophobe, you gotta vote for me.” You need more than that! So it’s not like they’re just voting against somebody, they’re voting for somebody. And I think that’s where we have to radically sharpen our message.

We know exactly what all of this means. It means focusing on the 'default' American, the white American. It means pretending income inequality is the sole factor keeping people down. Attack that, and at least under a progressive agenda that isn't actively seeking to hurt minorities, maybe their socioeconomic positions will rise along with the white tide. But the focus is clear.

He might as well come out and claim that he "doesn't see race/color" and pretend that's not willful blindness.

 

[benicillin]

Thanks for all the reasonable responses. Don't have time to respond to everyone, but a lot of it does make sense, Sanders at his best is still prone to being tone-deaf and laser focused on economic issues such that his other views suffer in the wings. Just trying to stay positive and not jump to the worst conclusion.

 

[metalslimer]

And I really want to know why Bernie thinks Feingold performed worse than Hilary in Wisconsin.Or why some of his pet projects like the drug pricing measure in California failed even with a higher than usual turnout in California for dems. We don't even have to make this about Hilary. She lost and is done. I'm going to keep criticizing Bernie every time he whines about identity politics.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

On Point (from NPR) had a phenomenal episode with multiple Pulitzer winner Thomas Freidman today, and is something you should really too. Freidman hit some outstanding points on the current events in the White House right now, I highly recommend it.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Demographics are not destiny.

 

[ErasureAcer]

She mentioned being a woman, like, once in the entire campaign.

NeoGAF is the Nexus of the multiverse where your alternate timeline is running into mine. There were (at least) two different debates with Bernie that she tried selling people on her being President with her gender as the selling point.

Then there's all her surrogates bringing it up, among them Albright telling women they're going to hell if they don't vote for a woman.

I've been witness to a woman saying we need Hillary because she's a woman. Not because of X, Y or Z but W...woman.

 

[mo60]

Focusing on just white people won't win the next presidential election for democrats. They have to focus on turning out their coalition more while trying to appeal to trump supporters that are not super hardcore republicans or hardcore supporters of trump which may be a bit harder with some of the voter suppression tactics republicans like to use that will be most likely amplified in the next election. Turnout was mostly decently, but mostly in the wrong areas. The dems don't need to throw their election strategy out of the window now, but it needs to be modified a bit.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

She mentioned being a woman, like, once in the entire campaign.

What?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What?

Which debate was the focus on Hillary's gender? Where were the ads about how she was the best candidate because she was a woman?

 

[Suikoguy]

Thanks for all the reasonable responses. Don't have time to respond to everyone, but a lot of it does make sense, Sanders at his best is still prone to being tone-deaf and laser focused on economic issues such that his other views suffer in the wings. Just trying to stay positive and not jump to the worst conclusion.

Above all he is doing a terrible job, or more like not doing any job, at attempting to reconcile the intersectionality and the broad "platform for everyone" of the Democratic Party.

So you have to ask, is basing things around what Sanders thinks is right the best choice moving forward?

That's not to say Keith will do a terrible job, or he should not be considered simply because Sanders likes him. But it's quite clear that Sander's priority is the white vote, even if it comes at the expense of other groups.

Should be be all that surprising after he said

Let me ask you, Bernie says... "What is the largest voting bloc in America? Is it gay people? No. Is it African-Americans? No. Hispanics? No. What?" Answer: "White working-class people." Bring them back to the liberal fold, he figures, and you've got your revolution.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Can we talk about how corny the "breaking the glass" animation/line was at the DNC

Like WOW

 

[Crocodile]

Two things that are both true:

A) Just merely belonging to an under-represented group doesn't entitle you a position of power or employment or whatever.

B) There is intrinsic positive value in getting more under-represented groups into positions of power because they have different viewpoints and life experiences that can be useful and they have an uplifting effect on future generations. The fact that our federal government is more white and more male than the population as a whole is a problem for a representative government.

 

[RustyNails]

I'm not really interested in villifying any wing of the democratic party right now, since we need everyone to work together to make sure the national nightmare ends in 2018 or 2020.

And you say that with a straight face? How do you expect millions of Clinton supporters, especially women, to take that comment?

 

[Good Job Bob]

Yes it is. Sorry, but between his obvious priorities during the primary and statements like this, we know where he stands. Bernie is happily joining Trump in a race to the bottom regarding minority groups' concerns.

Interview from today:


We know exactly what all of this means. It means focusing on the 'default' American, the white American. It means pretending income inequality is the sole factor keeping people down. Attack that, and at least under a progressive agenda that isn't actively seeking to hurt minorities, maybe their socioeconomic positions will rise along with the white tide. But the focus is clear.

He might as well come out and claim that he "doesn't see race/color" and pretend that's not willful blindness.

What are your thoughts on Obama saying here that "Dems need to have a broad message that speaks to what's common in Americans, rather than micro-targeting specific groups within the Democratic coalition one at a time"? Because it seems to me that you could read that statement in the same uncharitable way.

 

[Suikoguy]

Can we talk about how corny the "breaking the glass" animation/line was at the DNC

Like WOW

Did you just conveniently forget she was the first women major party nominee?

What are your thoughts on Obama saying here recently said that Dems "need to have a broad message that speaks to what's common in Americans, rather than micro-targeting specific groups within the Democratic coalition one at a time"? Because it seems to me that you could read that statement in the same uncharitable way.

Not even close to the same thing.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I don't think Hillary brought up the significance of being the first woman president that much. It was more a topic of discussion around her.

 

[mo60]

I don't think Hillary brought up the significance of being the first woman president that much. It was more a topic of discussion around her.

Yeah. I don't think she has brought it up much herself.The media discussed it whenever they could.

 

[Debirudog]

Can we talk about how corny the "breaking the glass" animation/line was at the DNC

Like WOW

....

I actually liked it.

 

[ErasureAcer]

We know exactly what all of this means. It means focusing on the 'default' American, the white American. It means pretending income inequality is the sole factor keeping people down. Attack that, and at least under a progressive agenda that isn't actively seeking to hurt minorities, maybe their socioeconomic positions will rise along with the white tide. But the focus is clear.

Just quoting to tell you and everyone who continue to propagate this theory you are all still wrong. There is no white conspiracy amongst the left against minorities of any kind. You sound like these two.

 

[benicillin]

And you say that with a straight face? How do you expect millions of Clinton supporters, especially women, to take that comment?

I mean I voted for her and spent quite a bit of time dragging friends and family into the fold if you're implying that I'm somehow anti-Clinton. I've agreed that Sanders is tone deaf and too focused on just economic issues, I was just saying I don't think he meant it with any bad intent or anything.

 

[Byakuya769]

Bernie Brogressives.

Once again, I'm left disappointed with Bernie and his razor focus on HIS revolution.

 

[damisa]

I'm still of the opinion there is a reason he moved to Vermont.

Frankly, Sanders is a Hidden Cancer on the Democratic Party.

Agreed. He's awful.

 

[metalslimer]

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing Tom Perez's thoughts on the DNC chair position. Sanders has to know that he will lose any proxy battle when it comes to the future of the party against Obama. I don't think Obama will openly say anything though.

 

[Suikoguy]

Agreed. He's awful.

I would not go that far.
He thinks the key to the future of the Democratic party is focusing strictly on the White vote.

That alone makes him the wrong person to lead the Democrats at this time.

We need someone who can bridge the coalition Obama created, while improving messaging targeted at everyone. It's a tall order, but it's clear Sanders has no interest in attempting this. We need to shift messaging a degree towards economic populism, but not at the expense of the group Obama brought together, that are also the future of this country.

Edit: A significant course correction would be idiotic considering the razor thin loss, and significant bullshit storm headwinds the Clinton campaign encountered.

Anyway, I would be interested in hearing Tom Perez's thoughts on the DNC chair position. Sanders has to know that he will lose any proxy battle when it comes to the future of the party against Obama. I don't think Obama will openly say anything though.

He is going to stay quiet until he leaves the presidency. He will probably only confide in his closest friends and allies whom he knows will stay quiet until later and not go "Off the record" as a source for the media.

I appreciate Sanders for pointing out things like the absolutely awful "Infrastructure" spending bill being touted by Trump. Calling a spade a spade is pretty critical right now, next year we can focus on 2018.

 

[RustyNails]

I mean I voted for her and spent quite a bit of time dragging friends and family into the fold if you're implying that I'm somehow anti-Clinton. I've agreed that Sanders is tone deaf and too focused on just economic issues, I was just saying I don't think he meant it with any bad intent or anything.

I don't think tone-deaf is the right word. He's putting Hillary Clinton on a blast here. Let's not bring in her historic candidacy into the gutter. So much for not vilifying other segments of democratic party.

 

[Dan]

Just quoting to tell you and everyone who continue to propagate this theory you are all still wrong. There is no white conspiracy amongst the left against minorities of any kind. You sound like these two.

Um, what? It's not a conspiracy against minorities. Who suggested such? It's an absurd belief that colorblindness is the path forward. It's quintessentially naive progressivism.

What are your thoughts on Obama saying here that "Dems need to have a broad message that speaks to what's common in Americans, rather than micro-targeting specific groups within the Democratic coalition one at a time"? Because it seems to me that you could read that statement in the same uncharitable way.

Obama says the Democratic strategy doesn't need to be overhauled, it just needs to be broadened out. It needs to reach more people that may have been ceded this election. It's not an argument to ignore demographic subsections, more to better connect them all. Obama specifically cites his campaigns as ones to look at, and those weren't Bernie's proposed playbook.

We need someone who can bridge the coalition Obama created, while improving messaging targeted it everyone. It's a tall order, but it's clear Sanders has no interest in attempting this. We need to shift messaging a degree towards economic populism, but not at the expense of the group Obama brought together, that are also the future of this country.

+1

 

[Hindl]

I would not go that far.
He thinks the key to the future of the Democratic party is focusing strictly on the White vote.

That alone makes him the wrong person to lead the Democrats at this time.

We need someone who can bridge the coalition Obama created, while improving messaging targeted at everyone. It's a tall order, but it's clear Sanders has no interest in attempting this. We need to shift messaging a degree towards economic populism, but not at the expense of the group Obama brought together, that are also the future of this country.

I wouldn't even go that far. I don't think he wants to strictly focus on the white vote, he wants to focus on economic issues, which he (rightly) believes affects all races, and improving socioeconomic conditions will improve everyone's lives. It just so happens that these economic issues are pretty much the sole issues most white liberals face, whereas minority groups (including women) have other social issues important to them in addition to economic issues. Bernie even recognizes these issues, he just doesn't see them as the same priority, and assumes that fixing the economy is the main thing to push at the somewhat expense of other social issues since the economy affects all groups, whereas social issues only focus on fractions of that larger group.

The problem is that this shouldn't be the thought process leading the party, but it should be a thought process that has significant sway within the party. Thinking about it, Sanders probably would've been a good VP choice. Hillary would guide the Democrat coalition by focusing on issues of intersectionality and make sure minority voices are represented, but Bernie would be the economic populist voice making sure his voters weren't forgotten.

 

[RustyNails]

Guys I need help. I came across this facebook group and I don't know what to do.

 

[Debirudog]

If Perez wants to run the chair, he should. My confidence in Ellison has shrunk ever since his abysmal answer from Keeping it 1600.

 

[royalan]

Bernie Sanders is a loud old curmudgeon who refuses to accept the fact that racial and gender politics have evolved beyond the days when he was a 20-something curmudgeon, and his relevance will swiftly fade away once January 20th hits and Obama reclaims the Democratic party.

I am thoroughly disgusted at his comment. Hillary has not said a single negative thing about him since the primary. Hell, she didn't say a single hateful thing about him DURING the primary other than "he's a one issue candidate" which, let's face it, he is.

You can criticize how she ran her campaign. But to kick her while she's down and claim that she only ran on "being a woman" is thoroughly disgusting and more than vaguely sexist (yes, SEXIST). Bernie, that woman whooped yo ass. Deal with it.

God and I can't wait until he makes like his failed Revolution PAC and goes away.

 

[Good Job Bob]

I'm still of the opinion there is a reason he moved to Vermont.

Frankly, Sanders is a Hidden Cancer on the Democratic Party.

Sanders is far from perfect, but he is one of the very very few loud Democratic voices (yes, he is a Democrat at this point and will *officially* register as one once he runs for re-election) right now in this incredibly grim period. Even if you are firmly on the more moderate wing of the party, I don't see how you can't at least appreciate that a little bit.

 

[Rubenov]

Shakira Law? What's that?

 

[royalan]

Sanders is far from perfect, but he is one of the very very few loud Democratic voices (yes, he is a Democrat at this point and will *officially* register as one once he runs for re-election) right now in this incredibly grim period. Even if you are firmly on the more moderate wing of the party, I don't see how you can't at least appreciate that a little bit.

No, fuck that. Not after this shit. Bernie Sanders is a cancer on the party.

Rather than build the party back up, he's shown more interest in tearing the party apart since the election. When Sanders has shown more willingness to work with DONALD FUCKING TRUMP than the heads of the Democratic Party, you know we've got a problem.

I suppose Sanders has been studying the tactics of the alt-right and thought, "heh, why not?"

 

[Veelk]

Shakira Law? What's that?

It institutes legislation in which hips are prohibited from any form of deception.

 

[Big Baybee]

I just don't like Bernie Sanders. I'm progressive as fuck, I just don't like him. I don't want him to be the face of the party going forward. It's inevitable, though. Let's see how this shitshow will play out.