UltimaPooh
Member
Ah. Good to see everything is back to normal in here now. Everyone is back in their camps.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT16| Unpresidented
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I wonder if he was offered VP... Might have been something offered, but intentionally not publicized to prevent further turmoil. Or, under the "conventional thinking lens" at the time, it was probably not a good choice.
Normally, you don't want a VP taking too much spotlight, but this fucking election broke all the rules. It's easy to say now it might be have been a good choice, but back then...
I actually said a post ago that I appreciated the quick and strong response to the Trump "Infrastructure" spending.
Sanders is a good counter to Trump's pie in the sky rhetoric, having been so good at making similar rhetoric in the primary
Except, Trump's Rhetoric has hidden shit in it, when he is not being overtly shitty.
That had to be a fake meme, no way Shakira was accidental. Right?
right...?
perfectchaos007
Member
Has Hildawg been spotted in public recently or has she taken the Romney post election route and went into hiding?
for the most part, yeah.
Big Baybee
Member
My camp is to have the democratic party represent everyone, not to try and win over white folks with bullshit rhetoric with a left tilt. I don't like where we are going. But I'm willing to see how it unfolds.
ErasureAcer
Banned
While I agree poor minorities face different and harder challenges than poor whites...we're living a nation that just elected Donald Trump president. This country is filled with idiots. Half the fucking country doesn't even vote.
The dude I quoted clearly stated a conspiracy.
It's like the 2 BLM protesters in Seattle (who I responded with) who are so out of touch with reality they criticize people who I'm sure agree with them on a lot of stuff but by calling them racist and hijacking a forum on Medicare/Social Security where Sanders was to speak...they lose any credibility.
Those are two examples of this phony conspiracy in plain sight. This Bernie Sanders' and his white male allegiance for better living conditions vs the minorities and how there are bigger issues at hand, "shut up racists!" has got to end. It's not productive nor even an accurate depiction. But no one ever listens to me.
Blindness is the path forward for those who only see souls. Are you a soul or are you whatever character you believe yourself to be or what other's believe you to be?
And I'm so sick of seeing this depiction of Bernie and his "white's only economic populism" and the Bernie-Bro bullshit continuing to spread. Neither has ever been true. But people keep repeating it, some even take the stage at events and call out the white progressive racists....it's fucking ridiculous.
No one ever in their critiques ask what can Bernie or the left do for them that he isn't addressing? So all in all it's just baseless attacks on his character...a Republican shall you. Lots of criticism...no fucking solutions.
She's a lady. America ain't ready for that shit.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
This. Accusing Bernie of throwing minorities under the bus because he wants to focus on economic conditions like he always has, is absurd. I wouldn't disagree with anyone who thinks his approach is flawed: he's not well in tune with what minorities face.
Good Job Bob
Member
Sanders is touring the country encouraging people to get involved in the party, which the party assigned him a leadership role to do. The comments he made about being willing to work with Trump on certain issues are no different from comments other Senate Dems like Schumer, Warren, Franken, Klobuchar, etc made. It seems to be the general strategy of Senate Dems. Hasn't stopped him (or them) from being highly critical of Trump.
RastaMentality
Banned
Hillary mentioned her gender when talking about little boys and girls looking up to a female president along with that mention in the first primary debate. Not that much besides that i feel.
UltimaPooh
Member
We don't even really know where it's going we don't even have a new DNC chair yet.
Let's take the WWC out of it... what's wrong with putting more regulations on to banks?
What's wrong with a living wage? Cheaper education? Better healthcare?
Also people don't seem to really read what he says and instantly think he is just going to let minorities suffer or not be a part of the platform.
Bernie has some faults. I agree but he isn't the monster or cancer people like to post on here... It is ridiculous.
He's not encouraging people to get involved in the party. He's encouraging people to get involved in the cult of Sanders.
ErasureAcer
Banned
I voted for Clinton. I'm not voting for someone that far right ever again. If the Democrats want to lose me voting for their candidates...keep pushing up the status quo corporate Democrats who choose big business over the worker....I ain't having that shit no more. I'm just once voice...one voice who actually fucking votes in every single election...but my patience with the Democrats is wearing thin.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
*sigh*
Clinton is not far right.
If that's the case to you, you will NEVER find a canidate that will make you happy in the United States.
Far Left policies were resoundingly defeated this election, you are a fish out of water politically.
Hillary was more liberal than Obama, and only 18% of the country wanted someone more liberal than Obama. Pandering to people like you will just result in Mondale 2.0 and Democrats getting slaughtered
shinra-bansho
Member
Well that's what happens when old curmudgeons make dumb statements.
There's always other options to vote for. I doubt you'll ever find what you're looking for from a major party.
UltimaPooh
Member
Ah, so you knew remarkably little about Clinton's policies or the current Democratic platform in general. Thanks for confirming!
shinra-bansho
Member
You know I'm referring to the swipe at look at me, I'm a woman. But sure we can pretend that this is what has caused animus.
Alongside presumably the notion that fighting for minority and women's rights is not "standing for something."
Clearly both you and Bernie Sanders need to think about why some very liberal voices were defeated by higher margins than Hillary this year.
Are those things Hillary didn't support? Did she not manage to be for such issues while also discussing the concerns of minority groups?
No one says Bernie wants to make minorities suffer and jettison them from the party. I do think Bernie's actions and rhetoric have made it clear that he believes their concerns should be entirely secondary to tackling economic issues that don't make white people uncomfortable. Forgetting the ethics of that, from a strategic perspective that seems very boneheaded. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
UltimaPooh
Member
Im referring to the rest of the context in which he said that.
I would say it's off the cuff and ruffles feathers... that is obvious but he also reiterates that he is for more diversity in the party for to continue with identity politics.
Im not talking about Hilary... I'm talking about Bernie. Yes he probably shouldn't have put it in that way... but a handful of people here have literally called him cancer to the party... Now if that doesn't go along with throwing out minorities... then maybe they should make their posts more clear on how exactly Bernie is cancer. Not to mention there is the rest of the context in which he says the thing about not only being a woman... he reiterates that he is for diversity and identity politics.
http://www.salon.com/2016/11/22/ber...gh-for-someone-to-say-im-a-woman-vote-for-me/
shinra-bansho
Member
I mean we can all play lipservice to caring about diversity too. In the same way people question Clinton's commitment to white poor people. Identity politics is becoming or has become for all intents a slur for minority concerns.
cartoon_soldier
Member
Democrats need to so freaking out thinking they were soundly defeated. That would be a good start.
UltimaPooh
Member
Has it? That was quick... because I use it in support of minority concerns. I get that Bernie isn't the best when it comes to those concerns but people are saying he is cancer and I think it's hyperbolic and then you respond... well that's what happens when an old white dude talks.
And I don't think that Hilary wasn't committed to white poor people. Poor whites are idiots for not listening.
Intheflorsh
Banned
Every time I click into this thread it's the same thing. We've got to get out of this insufferable Bernie vs. Hillary loop somehow. I thought Trump winning would put an end to it, but now it seems like it's doomed to continue until Bernie drops dead.
UltimaPooh
Member
Also my point.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Hidden Cancer, get it right 😉
Also, I clarified and walked that back a bit since I posted it.
UltimaPooh
Member
Didn't see you role it back... but hey touche!
Roylan tho was another one who echoed the exact same sentiment.
Yeah... It's getting a bit "echo chamber-y"?
As cartoon_soldier says, it's not like the Dems were stomped on. It's been noted by many in my Twitter feed that 150k votes the other way, and all the talk would be about how the GOP needs to do more Hispanic outreach (something that is still true, btw, and is only going to get worse with the racial hatred being spewed by Trumpers).
Bernie v Hillary is pointless, because at heart they both have a perception problem - Bernie doesn't seem to care about social issues, Hillary didn't seem to care about financial issues and WWC. Neither can help us now, and the thing to do soon is to stop the Bernie-crats shifting the entire Dem platform left and campaigning on one issue - if this election should've taught Dems anything, it's that you need a more targeted approach to the nation's concerns. 150k people with a more targeted message, and we'd be heading into a brave new world of hope. Now we're just heading into Brave New World.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
You guys all need to chill. Both wings have valid points. The democrats don't do enough to the WWC: true. The democrats can't afford to abandon fighting for minority rights: true. Maybe there's a way our strategy moving forward can address both.
If you can't accept that far-left policies lost even in states that Clinton carried I can't help you. But this is about saving the goddam Republic. Stop arguing and run and support candidates that will win in their individual jurisdictions and fall in line in 2020. It's gotta happen and it's not going to if this asinine fracturing continues. We can have it both ways ffs.
If you can't accept that far-left policies lost even in states that Clinton carried I can't help you. But this is about saving the goddam Republic. Stop arguing and run and support candidates that will win in their individual jurisdictions and fall in line in 2020. It's gotta happen and it's not going to if this asinine fracturing continues. We can have it both ways ffs.
shinra-bansho
Member
That level of hyperbole is dumb. But my response was to you saying people were back to division. And my response was that's what happens when a grump with no tact says something divisive.
And yes, if you haven't noticed. We have reached the point where "identity politics" is a bad word. And something that needs to go.
UltimaPooh
Member
Fair enough. But I think that even despite that going back to our camps when there really isn't camps anymore after the election is silly. Also I mean it's really easy for them to say it was divisive when they didn't read the whole thing and the fact that the media outlets stuck with that remark. People probably looked at the headline and just used it to confirm their bias.
People were throwing compromise around here a lot during the primaries and campaign... but now that Bernie is currently the leading voice of the Dems... a handful of people just can't seem to do it to the other side and compromise and agree on some things Bernie has said. They don't need to adopt all his polices or rhetoric... but I figured they could at least agree with him on something.
I can get on board with that.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You are both right, and ironically echo each other 🤔
I gotta put some time into advanced JavaScript, so I won't be posting much for the next couple of weeks. If you see me arguing, tell me to get back to work.
StopMakingSense
Member
Smart move for her. Gets her FP experience whilst UN Ambassador doesn't get the same admin stink SoS gets.
shinra-bansho
Member
Obama is still the leading voice of the Dems.
And her loss is not magically an endorsement of a lurch left.
Which is why you'll continue to get push back on an attempt to lurch left.
Also, the idea that "identity politics" essentially proxy for minority issues has to go will get push back. Because when it's your identity in question, it's just "politics."
And her loss is not magically an endorsement of a lurch left.
Which is why you'll continue to get push back on an attempt to lurch left.
Also, the idea that "identity politics" essentially proxy for minority issues has to go will get push back. Because when it's your identity in question, it's just "politics."
Can you explain how the full comment is less divisive? He repeatedly alludes to the coded form of identity politics, as in, voters (and candidates in a certain way) relied solely on identity and were blind to policy. He ends it effectively saying that the only good elected Democrat is one that stands firmly with him on dismantling the oligarchy. That's a surefire path to remaining a minority party.
Because it feels a lot like that political cartoon where the Republican suggests compromise to Obama, Obama steps forward, and the Republican steps back and smirks. Bernie's not asking to integrate some of his ideas, he wants his whole approach to be adopted. The approach that, again, lost him the primary by a significant margin, and led to some very progressive candidates underperforming compared to Hillary in November.
Virtually everyone agrees that Democrats and the Hillary campaign should have done some more work in certain parts of the country to reach disaffected white Obama voters, etc. But Bernie's not advocating that shift by degrees, but rather full pivots.
shinra-bansho
Member
I mean I'm cross posting a bit but angry white country people, coal miners, manufacturing workers, whatever voting out of a mixture of personal economic conditions, racial resentment, group threat or outright racism... does not mean they suddenly want sparkly socialism or single payer or Glass Steagall or free college for all or legal weed. Some of them sure as hell don't want your clean energy.
Some were angry about trade. The manufacturing lot. I'm not sure what impact that has on farmers since agricultural export growth has been good I believe. But they want to make America great again yearning for the past.
But otherwise, while your policies may help. They don't necessarily want them.
Some were angry about trade. The manufacturing lot. I'm not sure what impact that has on farmers since agricultural export growth has been good I believe. But they want to make America great again yearning for the past.
But otherwise, while your policies may help. They don't necessarily want them.
Not "well that's what happens when an old white dude talks."
That's what happens when Bernie Sanders talks.
Are there any Bernie supporters who would actually advocate for a one size fits all policy platform for all Senate and House seats? Otherwise I don't see the relevance of Bernie's WWC advocacy now and the next year because those seats have been often campaigned based on local politics.
If so why don't we just put him on ignore for a while? Things will change drastically by the time it's time for the next presidential campaign.
If so why don't we just put him on ignore for a while? Things will change drastically by the time it's time for the next presidential campaign.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
ohhhmygod
Aaron Strife
Banned
It's funny how people advocate the 50 state strategy while at the same time running True Progressives(TM) in every single district and state.
But then again they also hate Dean for
Does she foresee a bad 2017-18 in South Carolina to flee from? UN Ambassador feels like it'd have negligible benefit to a presidential run. Like it's straight up stalling for time.
CrimzonSamurai
Member
Oh god fucking damnit.
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