Support NeoGAF

[kess]

Minorities aren't everyday Americans?

 

[tuxfool]

Minorities aren't everyday Americans?

Are you asking that question?

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Can I ask y'all a question? I made a friend over the summer and things were going pretty good but I've picked up that he's a pretty hard right-winger. His place has a Trump banner (I'm not sure if it's his or his roommate's), he said he was writing in Paul Ryan on the ballot but he seems pretty pleased Hillary lost, he will occasionally say 'cucked' and can makes occasional racist statements. Should I stop being friends with him because he's a bigot, or should I use my privilege here to try and wear down on his bigotry? We've talked about politics before and he knows I'm a leftist so is it better for me to say "I don't hang out with Nazi sympathizers" or to try and use my privilege here for something good?

 

[Wilsongt]

Cristie condones mental torture. I am surprised Trump hasn't offered him a position yet.

With one more month in office, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) just vetoed a bill that will have devastating consequences for prisoners long after he is gone. This week, he doomed countless pregnant women and people with mental illness to indefinite solitary confinement, calling legislation that would end their isolation “[irresponsible]” and “breathtaking” while ignoring research that likens the practice to torture.

On Monday, the outgoing governor vetoed a bill passed by the legislature in October that banned solitary for pregnant women and prisoners suffering from mental health problems. The bill also scaled back isolation for all state prisoners by limiting it to 15 consecutive days in a single month, or 20 days over a two-month period. In short, it effectively ended the common practice of indefinite isolation, which entails 23-hour lock-down in a cell with no outside contact, and which scientists, lawmakers, faith leaders and prison reform advocates agree causes visual and auditory impairment, damages the part of the brain that produces memory and emotion, exacerbates preexisting mental health conditions, and leads to deadly neglect. It also required routine medical check-ups on everyone locked in solitary.

https://thinkprogress.org/chris-chr...rturous-prison-policy-df7fc9dfdf86#.cl5yl46q4

 

[Balphon]

pls define "everyday Americans", Shannon.

I'm trying to fathom how someone can say something like that and yet remain blithely unaware of their own bias.

 

[Debirudog]

so minorities aren't everyday Americans according to Shannon.

Get fucked.

 

[Dan]

Cristie condones mental torture. I am surprised Trump hasn't offered him a position yet.



https://thinkprogress.org/chris-chr...rturous-prison-policy-df7fc9dfdf86#.cl5yl46q4

Umm... why is this article claiming that Chris Christie is leaving office in January?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

so minorities aren't everyday Americans according to Shannon.

Get fucked.

I mean, I doubt they are to many americans. The USA is large enough that I believe there are huge swathes of people and communities that have never seen a Mexican or Muslim, and the only picture they have of them are that theyre immigrants or refugees(thus, not an everyday American). And you know what they say, out of sight, out of mind.

And therein lies the hard question. Why should they care about people they have never and will probably never interact with?

 

[pigeon]

Can I ask y'all a question? I made a friend over the summer and things were going pretty good but I've picked up that he's a pretty hard right-winger. His place has a Trump banner (I'm not sure if it's his or his roommate's), he said he was writing in Paul Ryan on the ballot but he seems pretty pleased Hillary lost, he will occasionally say 'cucked' and can makes occasional racist statements. Should I stop being friends with him because he's a bigot, or should I use my privilege here to try and wear down on his bigotry? We've talked about politics before and he knows I'm a leftist so is it better for me to say "I don't hang out with Nazi sympathizers" or to try and use my privilege here for something good?

I think this is the kind of question that is variable from relationship to relationship. All I would say is keep in mind that opposing Trump is a moral choice, not a political one, and that if you try to slowly convince him to be liberal he's probably spending the same time trying to slowly turn you into a Nazi sympathizer.

 

[pigeon]

I mean, I doubt they are to many americans. The USA is large enough that I believe there are huge swathes of people and communities that have never seen a Mexican or Muslim, and the only picture they have of them are that theyre immigrants or refugees(thus, not an everyday American). And you know what they say, out of sight, out of mind.

And therein lies the hard question. Why should they care about people they have never and will probably never interact with?

That's not a hard question. Because they're moral and decent human beings. Saying "well people I don't know don't really matter" is sociopathic behavior.

 

[Plinko]

Here we go:

Michigan House Approves Strict New Voter ID Bill Over Dem Objections



BOHICA, they didn't waste any time.

Well, I thought it wouldn't flip red until 2020, but looks like it's here to stay.

 

[Gotchaye]

I haven't actually had to deal with a Trump-supporting friend. My hard-right friend was big on Cruz, wrote in Sasse or something like that, and was pretty sure that either Clinton or Trump meant the death of the republic. Now, my grandparents are very happy Clinton lost.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

That's not a hard question. Because they're moral and decent human beings. Saying "well people I don't know don't really matter" is sociopathic behavior.

Is it really sociopathic behavior? The average American, the average Russian, the average Chinese person probably doesnt care what happens to people outside of their country. Likewise, the average white American who lives in a homogenous community, probably doesnt care what happens to a fellow American 2 states over.

Thats just human behavior. Crediting it to "sociopathic" behavior is handwaving away the fact that a human cannot realistically care for people outside of their life. Saying "they should be moral and decent human beings" ignores the fact that humans tend to not care for people that arent their own.

So its not sociopathic behavior. Its just being human.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Can I ask y'all a question? I made a friend over the summer and things were going pretty good but I've picked up that he's a pretty hard right-winger. His place has a Trump banner (I'm not sure if it's his or his roommate's), he said he was writing in Paul Ryan on the ballot but he seems pretty pleased Hillary lost, he will occasionally say 'cucked' and can makes occasional racist statements. Should I stop being friends with him because he's a bigot, or should I use my privilege here to try and wear down on his bigotry? We've talked about politics before and he knows I'm a leftist so is it better for me to say "I don't hang out with Nazi sympathizers" or to try and use my privilege here for something good?

Do you want bigot friends? Of all the things you could be doing...oh, I'll think I'll hang out with my bigot friend today. Get better friends. Don't mention anything about Nazis. Just stop talking, calling, whatever you do.

 

[pigeon]

Is it really sociopathic behavior? The average American, the average Russian, the average Chinese person probably doesnt care what happens to people outside of their country. Likewise, the average white American who lives in a homogenous community, probably doesnt care what happens to a fellow American 2 states over.

Thats just human behavior. Crediting it to "sociopathic" behavior is handwaving away the fact that a human cannot realistically care for people outside of their life. Saying "they should be moral and decent human beings" ignores the fact that humans tend to not care for people that arent their own.

So its not sociopathic behavior. Its just being human.

I mean, I think that's bullshit. I spend lots of time talking about policies I think we should enact that will help people I don't know and don't have contact with. I'm a pretty affluent tech worker in California right now. There is no particular reason for me to want us to improve income redistribution. I just believe we have a moral imperative to help people in need.

Am I a magical superhuman? I feel like I'm just, you know, a decent person. Maybe the people you think are just "humans" have something else going on.

 

[Totakeke]

It doesn't even matter, believing that Trump would have any policies that would actually benefit people in their own community is dumb as well. Yes we should educate their dumb asses but that has nothing to do with empathizing with them.

 

[Plinko]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

GOP gained ground in middle-class communities in 2016

The Republican Party made deep inroads into America’s middle-class communities in 2016. Although many middle-class areas voted for Barack Obama in 2008, they overwhelmingly favored Donald Trump in 2016, a shift that was a key to his victory. Meanwhile, Democrats had more success retaining a loose “coalition” of lower-income and upper-income communities.

More at the link.

Huge, HUGE problem for democrats moving forward if this is a true trend and not just a "Hillary was a terrible candidate" issue.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Eh. White turnout was not the main issue in MI/WI/PA. Maybe in Florida, but not the rust belt.

The main problem in the rust belt was the ridiculous margins Trump was pulling in rural counties. And that was driven by fear/hatred of Hillary as much as it was driven by Trump's popularity those areas. People legitimately believe she is a corrupt criminal who would actively seek to destroy them. The fact that she barely campaigned in these areas exacerbated the problem immensely. She basically gave up on rural areas and staked it all in urban turnout. And, remember, that strategy came extremely close to working.

If we get a better candidate who will reach out to and connect with liberal/moderate rural voters even a tiny bit, while maintaining minority support, we should be alright in 2020 unless Trump pulls off some real miracles with the economy. I think after four years of racism and sexism it will be easy to galvanise the base.

Note; I don't think it will require any policy or platform change whatsoever to do this. Just need a more charismatic candidate and a better campaign focused on getting to 270 rather than trying to shoot the moon.

I am going to counter with the Shannon Goodin's of the world.

 

[Abinash117]

That's not a hard question. Because they're moral and decent human beings. Saying "well people I don't know don't really matter" is sociopathic behavior.

Not necessarily. It isn't like many people are crying over deaths of others in other countries or even people from some other city.

Some people care because they have the ability to empathize much easier with people that isn't them, others already identified groups they actually don't really know as "others". It is likely that people like Shannon does not identify with other groups of people and as not part of her group.

Even if she might interact with individuals of different group; those people are just that, individuals.

I also think that many white Americans young and old are have a much easier time relating to white working class Americans than minorities in general, mostly because their fathers and mothers were probably similar to that group decades ago and pop culture describes that everyday person as a white male that is down on their luck, and is of a middle/working class background.

 

[Balphon]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

More at the link.

Huge, HUGE problem for democrats moving forward if this is a true trend and not just a "Hillary was a terrible candidate" issue.

While I don't doubt the article's conclusion I think including 2012 data in there would have been more instructive regarding the trend. It says 2012 showed the same "erosion," but doesn't give numbers.

Also, the change still seems to be highly regionalized. Based on the scatterplot it seems like Clinton did better than '08 Obama in predominantly middle-class areas in CA and TX.

So I think the title is an overstatement.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Is there a negative option?

What do you mean?

Also since no one answered it last page can anyone try now?

So PoliGaf what are the chance's we get rid of Trump by faithless electors on December 19th? 1% or 0%?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I mean, I think that's bullshit. I spend lots of time talking about policies I think we should enact that will help people I don't know and don't have contact with. I'm a pretty affluent tech worker in California right now. There is no particular reason for me to want us to improve income redistribution. I just believe we have a moral imperative to help people in need.

Am I a magical superhuman? I feel like I'm just, you know, a decent person. Maybe the people you think are just "humans" have something else going on.

Hate to break it to you

But there are even minorities who dont look outside their bubble. There are decent americans like you speak of- that are too busy within their bubble to worry about people theyve never met. The dad or mom struggling to make a living wage. They can be white. They can be a minority. They dont pay attention to politics, nor should they be forced to.

Only half of America voted this time around. Would you call the half that didnt vote sociopaths? Generalizing and calling people who voted one way because the other way didnt focus on "everyday americans like myself" is a fast track way to lose the ability for open dialogue with that person instantly.

You are an affluent tech worker in california. You have the privilege of being able to spend time looking at politics and being able to come to conclusions on the landscape. But you have to realize that not all people have that privilege. Average Juan or average Jane who can just catch a rally or watch a snippet of the news will just see with what they are presented in that compact snippet.

That is a reality you have to come to terms with. Calling a person "sociopathic" is a generalization that doesnt even dare to step into their shoes on why they think the way they do. Empathy is a two way street, not just one way like many have failed to assume.

 

[sc0la]

The organically abled politicians never give the white mannequin class the attention they deserve. Just because they are inorganic and non sentient!

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

What do you mean?

Also since no one answered it last page can anyone try now?

So PoliGaf what are the chance's we get rid of Trump by faithless electors on December 19th? 1% or 0%?

Someone did answer last page and suggested that it's probably a negative percentage, which is about right. It ain't happening.


edit- oh, you quoted that person. Anyway, they're right. It's less than 0%

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

White people

Oh she is going to get change alright, no argument there. Hope the change she likes is her tears and suffering.

White

Mannequins?

White Mannequins.

I don't understand this string of responses, are these attacks on her?

 

[RustyNails]

Oh she is going to get change alright, no argument there. Hope the change she likes is her tears and suffering.

She's going to blame Trump for all her problems in record time and say "all politicians are the same" and never vote again.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Someone did answer last page and suggested that it's probably a negative percentage, which is about right. It ain't happening.


edit- oh, you quoted that person. Anyway, they're right. It's less than 0%

Oh, lol I was misunderstanding their post them. Well that is a bummer than.

 

[Pixieking]

pls define "everyday Americans", Shannon.

So, ignoring the identity issues (lack of ability to empathise with others, lack of awareness of white privilege, etc.), what she's saying is that Hillary's message didn't hit her. And i find that bizarre.

Equal-pay for women.
Paid family leave.
Abortion-rights.
Social-security and welfare.
Education.
Environment.

None of those policies hit "Shannon"?

Is she just trying to hide her racism? Did Hillary really do such a bad job of messaging? Did Trump just take all the oxygen out of every news cycle?

I still believe that Hillary's messaging was on-point, but I think the media's unwillingness to carry it and give it equal weight to Trump fate-shaming Alicia Machado on Twitter is what doomed her.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So, ignoring the identity issues (lack of ability to empathise with others, lack of awareness of white privilege, etc.), what she's saying is that Hillary's message didn't hit her. And i find that bizarre.

Equal-pay for women.
Paid family leave.
Abortion-rights.
Social-security and welfare.
Education.
Environment.

None of those policies hit "Shannon"?

Is she just trying to hide her racism? Did Hillary really do such a bad job of messaging? Did Trump just take all the oxygen out of every news cycle?

I still believe that Hillary's messaging was on-point, but I think the media's unwillingness to carry it and give it equal weight to Trump fate-shaming Alicia Machado on Twitter is what doomed her.

Trump dominated the news cycle(for better or worse) compared to any other politician in the last 20 years. Any short ads with a condensed message probably didnt have an effect as a news programme talking about Trump every damn day.

Because you know, they really want ratings.

 

[Vixdean]

So .... a general for SecDef, a general for head of DHS, and a general for national security advisor. Isn't this how military coups happen?

 

[pigeon]

I don't understand this string of responses, are these attacks on her?

Why are minorities and immigrants not everyday Americans

 

[Dan]

So .... a general for SecDef, a general for head of DHS, and a general for national security advisor. Isn't this how military coups happen?

The large number of generals certainly contributes to the good case to deny Mattis a waiver.

 

[WaffleTaco]

I don't believe Hillary's message was on point at all. She catered to minorities which is good, but she made no reason uneducated white heterosexual's to vote for her over Trump. All they wanted was change because their lives were getting worse and all they see is minorities being catered to while they were ignored. Unfortunately critical thinking is not something they value.

 

[Plinko]

Is she just trying to hide her racism?

Yes.

Did Hillary really do such a bad job of messaging?

Yes.

Did Trump just take all the oxygen out of every news cycle?

Yes.

I still believe that Hillary's messaging was on-point but I think the media's unwillingness to carry it and give it equal weight to Trump fate-shaming Alicia Machado on Twitter is what doomed her.

Her messaging wasn't good enough to win, period. Her campaign struggled for months to come up with a solid answer for the email issue. A study showed like 90% of her commercials talked about how bad Trump was and didn't focus on her own plans. The campaign was dreadfully bad when dealing with her baggage.

 

[pigeon]

Not necessarily. It isn't like many people are crying over deaths of others in other countries or even people from some other city.

Some people care because they have the ability to empathize much easier with people that isn't them, others already identified groups they actually don't really know as "others". It is likely that people like Shannon does not identify with other groups of people and as not part of her group.

Even if she might interact with individuals of different group; those people are just that, individuals.

I also think that many white Americans young and old are have a much easier time relating to white working class Americans than minorities in general, mostly because their fathers and mothers were probably similar to that group decades ago and pop culture describes that everyday person as a white male that is down on their luck, and is of a middle/working class background.

Hate to break it to you

But there are even minorities who dont look outside their bubble. There are decent americans like you speak of- that are too busy within their bubble to worry about people theyve never met. The dad or mom struggling to make a living wage. They can be white. They can be a minority. They dont pay attention to politics, nor should they be forced to.

Only half of America voted this time around. Would you call the half that didnt vote sociopaths? Generalizing and calling people who voted one way because the other way didnt focus on "everyday americans like myself" is a fast track way to lose the ability for open dialogue with that person instantly.

You are an affluent tech worker in california. You have the privilege of being able to spend time looking at politics and being able to come to conclusions on the landscape. But you have to realize that not all people have that privilege. Average Juan or average Jane who can just catch a rally or watch a snippet of the news will just see with what they are presented in that compact snippet.

That is a reality you have to come to terms with. Calling a person "sociopathic" is a generalization that doesnt even dare to step into their shoes on why they think the way they do. Empathy is a two way street, not just one way like many have failed to assume.

What I get from these posts is, once again, that progressivism has lost its moral imperative. People apparently forgot that the reason we advocate for progressive policies is not because they might help us, but because we have a responsibility to help the poor and needy, because we were all strangers.

This is something we need to work on. All successes for progressive policies in America have come as a result of building a sense of moral responsibility. If we have forgotten that, it's going to be a problem.

 

[Plinko]

What I get from these posts is, once again, that progressivism has lost its moral imperative. People apparently forgot that the reason we advocate for progressive policies is not because they might help us, but because we have a responsibility to help the poor and needy, because we were all strangers.

This is something we need to work on. All successes for progressive policies in America have come as a result of building a sense of moral responsibility. If we have forgotten that, it's going to be a problem.

This is my favorite post in a while. I 100% feel the same way, and this recent month has absolutely crushed my hope for humanity.

This is why I absolutely HATE the whole "Oh, millennials just care about themselves" crap the right throws around. Every millennial I have met argues for progressive policies because it's the right thing to do and we have the ability to do it--we just have people in power that refuse to do it. It's infuriating. Baby boomers are the most selfish group in American history.

 

[Crocodile]

Hate to break it to you

But there are even minorities who dont look outside their bubble. There are decent americans like you speak of- that are too busy within their bubble to worry about people theyve never met. The dad or mom struggling to make a living wage. They can be white. They can be a minority. They dont pay attention to politics, nor should they be forced to.

Only half of America voted this time around. Would you call the half that didnt vote sociopaths? Generalizing and calling people who voted one way because the other way didnt focus on "everyday americans like myself" is a fast track way to lose the ability for open dialogue with that person instantly.

You are an affluent tech worker in California. You have the privilege of being able to spend time looking at politics and being able to come to conclusions on the landscape. But you have to realize that not all people have that privilege. Average Juan or average Jane who can just catch a rally or watch a snippet of the news will just see with what they are presented in that compact snippet.

That is a reality you have to come to terms with. Calling a person "sociopathic" is a generalization that doesnt even dare to step into their shoes on why they think the way they do. Empathy is a two way street, not just one way like many have failed to assume.

Self-Interest is natural. However this isn't a zero-sum game. Not everyone has the same priorities or preferences but Person A doesn't have to suffer for Person B to prosper. If their thought process for voting was "I want my jobs back and I don't care if others lose their rights to be treated like humans beings" then that's not the moral choice. I've never gotten the sense that people on the coasts don't want those in flyover America to do well even if they have ideological differences with them but flyover America voted, as its end result, to fuck everyone else over.

I don't understand this string of responses, are these attacks on her?

I have no idea what the "mannequins" bit refer to but otherwise those are obvious attacks on her. She is a dumb person with dumb opinions.

 

[Pixieking]

I don't believe Hillary's message was on point at all. She catered to minorities which is good, but she made no reason uneducated white heterosexual's to vote for her over Trump. All they wanted was change because their lives were getting worse and all they see is minorities being catered to while they were ignored. Unfortunately critical thinking is not something they value.

That last sentence is more correct than most (non-GAF'ers) would like to believe, I think. Because I've read her policy statements on Social Security, on Family Leave, on Roe v Wade, on the environment, and all these things are relevant to uneducated white heterosexuals.

What I get from these posts is, once again, that progressivism has lost its moral imperative. People apparently forgot that the reason we advocate for progressive policies is not because they might help us, but because we have a responsibility to help the poor and needy, because we were all strangers.

This is something we need to work on. All successes for progressive policies in America have come as a result of building a sense of moral responsibility. If we have forgotten that, it's going to be a problem.

Absolutely! (And the bolded especially). I think it's less sociopathic, and more just selfishness and an unwillingness to admit wrongdoing. People who shout at service staff or bully on Twitter have forgotten - or are too angry to realise - that what helps someone else will help them. It is a rising tide that raises all boats, and it does take a village.

I think the most awful thing about the politics of the last 20 years is the extremism that Republicans have given into, both in their base, and in themselves. When Chavetz says pre-election that he's going to continue hounding Hillary, and then post-election says that Trump has done nothing that warrants investigation, that is venality and selfishness in its purest form. And when lawmakers act like that, how can you imbue ordinary citizens with a morality that empthasizes helping others?

Her messaging wasn't good enough to win, period. Her campaign struggled for months to come up with a solid answer for the email issue. A study showed like 90% of her commercials talked about how bad Trump was and didn't focus on her own plans. The campaign was dreadfully bad when dealing with her baggage.

Fair.

 

[Dominican Power]

pls define "everyday Americans", Shannon.

White people are tone deaf.

 

[Dan]

This is a doozy of an interview. Bianna Golodryga of Yahoo interviews Rep. Dana Rohrabacher about Russia and human rights violations. It gets crazy, with Rohracher trying to ignore her because she's originally from Moldova and claiming Putin is the new Gorbachev.

This is the man who wants to be Secretary of State. A dude who ostensibly wants to be best friends with Russia and have some sort of war with China.

 

[dramatis]

Wow this Labor Secretary is worse in more than just labor

Puzder's company has been faulted for objectifying women. Advertisements for Carl’s Jr. have for years featured scantily clad female models eating burgers. In a 2015 interview with Entrepreneur, Puzder shrugged off accusations of sexism, pointing to a rise in sales. “I like beautiful women eating burgers in bikinis," he said. "I think it's very American. … I used to hear [that] brands take on the personality of the CEO. And I rarely thought that was true, but I think this one, in this case, it kind of did take on my personality."

This is a doozy of an interview. Bianna Golodryga of Yahoo interviews Rep. Dana Rohrabacher about Russia and human rights violations. It gets crazy, with Rohracher trying to ignore her because she's originally from Moldova and claiming Putin is the new Gorbachev.

This is the man who wants to be Secretary of State. A dude who ostensibly wants to be best friends with Russia and have some sort of war with China.

This is really stupid. If we ever have a situation where we can only pick Russia or China, why would you pick the country that is failing economically.

 

[Dominican Power]

Yes.



Yes.



Yes.



Her messaging wasn't good enough to win, period. Her campaign struggled for months to come up with a solid answer for the email issue. A study showed like 90% of her commercials talked about how bad Trump was and didn't focus on her own plans. The campaign was dreadfully bad when dealing with her baggage.

Hillary could of had the greatest messaging ever and it wouldn't have mattered. Progressives and conservatives hated her. People bought in to the caricature of her. I was hoping people would look past that and not vote in Palpatine.

 

[dramatis]

I actually had this thought earlier while listening to a podcast, but what do you think Trump would do with the sovereign citizen fools act up again?

Or is it likely that they won't act up because the pres is going to be white again

 

[Dominican Power]

Y'all think there will be a point in Trump's presidency where he fucks up so bad overseas that a foreigner throws a shoe at him like it how happened to W. Bush?

 

[Teggy]

I have no idea what the "mannequins" bit refer to but otherwise those are obvious attacks on her. She is a dumb person with dumb opinions.

Was just a joke about the strange far off look she has in the photo when she has a book open in front of her.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What I get from these posts is, once again, that progressivism has lost its moral imperative. People apparently forgot that the reason we advocate for progressive policies is not because they might help us, but because we have a responsibility to help the poor and needy, because we were all strangers.

This is something we need to work on. All successes for progressive policies in America have come as a result of building a sense of moral responsibility. If we have forgotten that, it's going to be a problem.

The issue here being that it was about messaging

Hillarys campaign message was majorly about helping out minorities, and how bad Trump was

Trumps message was mainly about the economy and bringing back jobs, and how great a business man he was.

Yes we should help the poor and needy. But that doesnt just mean minorities. If Hillary lost, was because she didnt try to appeal to those white americans who felt ignored.

Yes, she had the better plans. Yes, she would help them out. But she did not get that across in her messaging, since her messaging was focused on lifting up minorities and pointing out all the bad things Trump said. If she had better messaging in middle America, we would be singing a different tune.

It was the Lefts campaign to lose, and they lost. Messaging was a huge reason for that. And when the end result is, after hearing opinions of people who voted Trump, to call them White Mannequins, then we will continue losing. Because these so-called Mannequins make up the majority of the country. And you have to tailor your messaging as such.

We saw it this campaign-when you have 30ish% of hispanics voting for trump, you have to realize that just appealing to mainly/just minorities wont win you the election.

 

[Plinko]

Hillary could of had the greatest messaging ever and it wouldn't have mattered. Progressives and conservatives hated her. People bought in to the caricature of her. I was hoping people would look past that and not vote in Palpatine.

To be fair, if the messaging of the campaign was actually solid, it could have overcome that caricature.

It wasn't. Remember--after the debates, especially the Town Hall, people were talking about how she really was. The campaign couldn't take advantage of that. Yes, there were definitely extenuating circumstances all over the place, but solid messaging COULD have overcome that. It just wasn't there. The campaign was inept in that respect.

 

[Teggy]

I actually had this thought earlier while listening to a podcast, but what do you think Trump would do with the sovereign citizen fools act up again?

Or is it likely that they won't act up because the pres is going to be white again

Has he ever tweeted about Cliven Bundy or the office occupation?

 

[WaffleTaco]

Y'all think there will be a point in Trump's presidency where he fucks up so bad overseas that a foreigner throws a shoe at him like it how happened to W. Bush?

He's more likely to get shot I would imagine. I can't see him lasting for four years.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

To be fair, if the messaging of the campaign was actually solid, it could have overcome that caricature.

It wasn't. Remember--after the debates, especially the Town Hall, people were talking about how she really was. The campaign couldn't take advantage of that. Yes, there were definitely extenuating circumstances all over the place, but solid messaging COULD have overcome that. It just wasn't there. The campaign was inept in that respect.

Right, people are forgetting we lost the rust belt states by what, a combined total of 150kish votes? Better messaging wouldve cut down on that deficit and led us to victory. This wasnt a landslide victory for the GOP, it was by the skin of their teeth that they barely won.