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[Wilsongt]

What if Tammy Duckworth emerges as the queen we need and deserve?

 

[PBY]

^this is what not learning from this shit looks like

 

[IggyChooChoo]

Well, we'll see what kind of tweets the inaugural protests result in.

Ah, the inaugural protests. Imagine being a low-information swing voter: a gettable, albeit lightly racist Obama voter in Youngstown who has bought Trump's lie that he is going to bring back good manufacturing jobs via cutting taxes and getting better trade agreements. And then on Jan 20 you see an inauguration turn into what appears to be a violent race riot. Then the demagogue starts to have a plausible scapegoat and a distraction for the voter to blame for why Trump's policies aren't working fast enough. I've already seen a video of white Trump guy getting beaten by black guys be shared a ton among conservative circles. We're only a step away from Trump himself tweeting that video. And my worry is Trump's scapegoating will work better as the pain and fear increase, not worse, so conservative policy failure will become a feature, not a bug. That's how things seem to play here in Appalachia: the older, sicker, poorer, more fucked over by opioids, education cuts, brain drain, and hopelessness the whitest counties get, the more tied to raw conservative cultural appeals they get.

 

[Wilsongt]

^this is what not learning from this shit looks like

Oh hush. Anything to inject some hope into this darkest of timelines.

 

[PBY]

Oh hush. Anything to inject some hope into this darkest of timelines.

I actually liked your post lol.


Meant that for the one above you.

 

[tuffy]

You following Kander on Twitter? I'm following a bunch of Dems now, seeing what they're saying and doing.

Also, a Kander/Kamala ticket? Charisma off the fucking charts with that.

Then let's go with that. Shuffle the platform a little, focus on the economy and send in a better messenger. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume swing voters just don't care that much about policy; they just need the shiniest candidate around to raise enthusiasm and get them to the polls.

 

[Hindl]

Wikileaks proves otherwise.

Show me the email where they communicated with Ezra Klein. Because the only thing I found is someone asking who is the person that holds journalists accountable, like Lloyd Grove used to. And someone else responded with Ezra Klein. As for this:

Hillary being a woman didn't magically make her platform better for women compared to Bernie. She wasn't arguing for paid maternal leave like Sanders was. In fact, fucking Trump ended up doing that. Trump was able to attack Hillary from the left on issues like that and Iraq and the TPP because she's a milquetoast centrist.

Did you even read her policies?

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/paid-leave/

The United States is the only developed nation in the world with no guaranteed paid leave of any kind. Supporting families isn’t a luxury—it’s an economic necessity. It’s past time for our policies to catch up to the way families live and work today.

Not only did she also argue for paid family leave, she gave very specific numbers, like 12 weeks of leave, workers getting at least 2/3rds of their pay while on leave, and others.

 

[Barzul]

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping that the Trump kids have more input and power than Pence in leading the transition efforts?

These were an interesting pair of tweets, don't know if they were posted.

‏@AliWatkins 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC
On appointments: literally no one has a clue. Names you're hearing are 98% DC echo chamber and speculation. No. One. Knows. Anything.

@AliWatkins 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC
Literally, high-level GOP NatSec staffers are asking ME if I've heard anything, saying I'd know before them. This is where we are.

 

[kirblar]

^this is what not learning from this shit looks like

If you want to learn from this, first learn what happened in the '70s.

 

[Suikoguy]

Show me the email where they communicated with Ezra Klein. Because the only thing I found is someone asking who is the person that holds journalists accountable, like Lloyd Grove used to. And someone else responded with Ezra Klein. As for this:



Did you even read her policies?

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/paid-leave/



Not only did she also argue for paid family leave, she gave very specific numbers, like 12 weeks of leave, workers getting at least 2/3rds of their pay while on leave, and others.

Lednerg is trying to revise history.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping that the Trump kids have more input and power than Pence in leading the transition efforts?

These were an interesting pair of tweets, don't know if they were posted.

‏@AliWatkins 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC
On appointments: literally no one has a clue. Names you're hearing are 98% DC echo chamber and speculation. No. One. Knows. Anything.

@AliWatkins 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC
Literally, high-level GOP NatSec staffers are asking ME if I've heard anything, saying I'd know before them. This is where we are.

So all of these scary far right people he's appointing aren't actually real and just rumors?

I'm not convinced he doesn't appoint Jr to some position. Ivanka has her own stuff to do, but Jr probably doesn't do anything of consequence. And the other one whose name I forget. Him and Jr and be appointed to the same position and tag team because nobody, not even their father, can tell them apart.

 

[ShironRedshift]

I actually liked your post lol.


Meant that for the one above you.

I was afraid of that... In which case, I just have this to say:

They are. The problem, which I'm willing to admit, is that Clinton had a terrible amount of manufactured scandals that people like Comey were able to exploit to excite R turnout and depress D turnout. If she didn't have those, she would have won. But she did, so she lost.

Alternatively, if someone like Tim Kaine himself ran and won the nominee, since he's squeaky clean, he would have won. The problem wasn't the policies for the message or whatever, which were exactly what they needed to be but a candidate drowned in scandals that prevented that message from getting out and overtaking it entirely along with other mistakes such as running far too many negative ads and not enough positive ones.

That much can be accepted by everyone right? The problem is that some aren't stopping there and then going a step beyond to say that not only do we need a candidate who's not flawed but we need a candidate who's both not flawed AND able to appeal to working class whites.

But that's not what the info we're getting is telling us. Clinton's loss margins in key states are small. If she weren't so flawed, if she didn't have the scandals and e-mail stuff that would have pushed her over the edge. She did, which is why it was able to be exploited and she lost. But if she didn't she would have had the edge she needed to win.

That some are thus using this to not come to the conclusion of nominating someone pretty much free of scandal like Tim Kaine (obviously not anymore since he's probably poisoned goods now, but just as an example of the type of candidate) but instead jumping at the first opportunity to use this as a sign to completely change the party's platform and shift the focus to WWC voters when the data shows such a large change isn't necessary to win but so many are pushing for it to be the direction the party needs to go anyway is very, VERY concerning to me as a minority and has truly opened my eyes to who's an ally and who isn't and who's willing to throw me under the bus the first time they get even the slightest, most tenuous cover and opportunity to do so even when it's nit actually necessary and not the right thing to do, but charging full-steam ahead because apparently it's not enough to win but winning the largest margins possible is the goal, and if throwing minorities under the bus isn't necessary to win but would help secure even larger margins and you have the cover and opportunity to do it, then do be it, and that's terrifying and very eye-opening to me. Just... terrifying.

 

[Debirudog]

When polls were saying people trusted Trump more than Hillary we shouldn't have just said "those people are nuts, what the hell" and actually sat down and tried to figure out how Hillary could look more honest.

Because it's not hard to see how people think Hillary is shady. She's super paranoid about everything. She hides stuff all the time and never releases them even when there's no point not to. Trump just says whatever is on his mind. And if you already believe him, when he says he can't share his taxes due to an audit, you believe him because you already think he's honest.

Oh, Hillary has a lot of personal problems that bit her, but I feel we just need a candidate that has...less issues to put it blunt. I think Kander's that guy but he's not boring at all either.

Yeah, transperancy is also a big issue with Hillary and it gravely costed her in the 90s no matter how unfair it is.

 

[Dan]

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping that the Trump kids have more input and power than Pence in leading the transition efforts?

Maaaaaaaybe Ivanka, but I sure as fuck don't want Eric or Donald Jr controlling shit. Also, they really shouldn't be involved at all given their business interests.

 

[PBY]

I'm referring to the fact that sanders weakened the party.

Trump fucking broke his party and they still came together. Don't think Sanders was the problem - and if you go back I was freaking the fuck out that he was ruining her chances.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Maaaaaaaybe Ivanka, but I sure as fuck don't want Eric or Donald Jr controlling shit. Also, they really shouldn't be involved at all given their business interests.

Which one is the one that posts white supremacist memes?

 

[Wilsongt]

I actually liked your post lol.


Meant that for the one above you.

Oh! Gotcha

 

[lednerg]

Proves what? That Ezra Klein is a Technocratic Liberal?

You didn't need Wikileaks for that, or to understand why he'd hate Bernie.

The word is neoliberal. Or Third Way Dems. The DLC. The very people who kicked unions out of the Democratic Party and the working class along with them.

People thought Obama was going to bring progressivism back to the party in 2008 and they came out in droves. He failed them; didn't even hold Wall St accountable for the crash. The people are disillusioned with people like Obama and Hillary and this was clear for over a year now.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Is it just me or is anyone else hoping that the Trump kids have more input and power than Pence in leading the transition efforts?

These were an interesting pair of tweets, don't know if they were posted.

‏@AliWatkins 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC
On appointments: literally no one has a clue. Names you're hearing are 98% DC echo chamber and speculation. No. One. Knows. Anything.

@AliWatkins 2h2 hours ago Washington, DC
Literally, high-level GOP NatSec staffers are asking ME if I've heard anything, saying I'd know before them. This is where we are.

His neo-nazi retweeting children? We're kinda just bouncing off the floor here.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Which one is the one that posts white supremacist memes?

Eric, I think.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Which one is the one that posts white supremacist memes?

Trump Jr. is the NeoNazi. Eric Trump is the dumbass who gets owned all the time.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Barron will likely ensure this will be the first time the White House has an Xbox Live subscription and a Steam account with a White House billing address.

Stuff to think about.

There will be a 10 year old in the White House yelling obscenities at strangers while playing Call of Duty.

 

[Barzul]

CNN is saying Preibus is the lock for Chief of Staff.

His neo-nazi retweeting children? We're kinda just bouncing off the floor here.

I was think more Ivanka. Didn't know about the neo-nazi stuff.

 

[Dan]

25% of the transition team is fucking Trump's family, between his three kids and his son-in-law.

Trump Jr. is the NeoNazi. Eric Trump is the dumbass who gets owned all the time.

Eric is vile, too. I mean he was recently calling for David Duke to be murdered. Yes, David Duke is an awful human being, but I don't want someone near the White House who proudly calls for the assassination of political enemies/liabilities.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I have a friend on Facebook that keeps bringing up the DLC boogeyman, and I don't have the heart to tell him that it was disbanded years ago.

"Establishment" needs a spooky three-letter-acronym though, so it lives on.

 

[War Peaceman]

The word is neoliberal. Or Third Way Dems. The DLC. The very people who kicked unions out of the Democratic Party and the working class along with them.

People thought Obama was going to bring progressivism back to the party in 2008 and they came out in droves. He failed them; didn't even hold Wall St accountable for the crash.

Then why didn't they vote for a more progressive platform as Hillary ran this time? Because of Obama? So it isn't Clinton's fault is what you are saying?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'm referring to the fact that sanders weakened the party.

Trump fucking broke his party and they still came together. Don't think Sanders was the problem - and if you go back I was freaking the fuck out that he was ruining her chances.

Because Republicans want to win and Democrats want to be inspired.

You cannot compare the two...

 

[balladofwindfishes]

DLC isn't going to work as an acronym. Other things come to mind with that one.

 

[Dan]

People thought Obama was going to bring progressivism back to the party in 2008 and they came out in droves. He failed them; didn't even hold Wall St accountable for the crash. The people are disillusioned with people like Obama and Hillary and this was clear for over a year now.

'The perfect is the enemy of the good.' - Voltaire

Seeking the former at the expense of the latter is a surefire way to achieve neither.

Fuck those lazy, privileged assholes.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You drop minorities you lose....

The party is not the party of white people.

It is not the party of white liberals

You drop minorities both parties do in fact become the same and minorities will stay home in droves and understandably so.

Minorities have been dragging Dems to whst success they've had.

If in the face of a White Nationalist you go hmmm maybe we should just drop the minority stuff you're my enemy.

Nobody is saying to drop minorities.

Nobody is saying to abandon minorities.

What we are saying is that you need to appeal to white people as well. That if you laser focus only minorities, you lose like Clinton did, and you will continue losing. Because surprise, minorities are just that- a minority. Not the majority.

Saying all that, that doesnt mean you abandon minorities. It means you have to appeal to both white people, and to minorities.

Right now there is a sentiment of "us vs. Them" that is being created, and that is as dangerous of all hell. The reality is, democrats are never ever going to win by just appealing to minorities. Theyre going to have to appeal to rural Americans, who happen to be white.

This whole generalization of all white rural Americans=racist isnt going to help Democrats in the future. Its that demonization that will guarantee the party to lose.

"But thats what Republicans do, they demonize minorities." Yes. They do that. Do you know why? Because white people are the majority. Because they can afford to do that. We cant afford to demonize the majority or tragedies like this will happen again and again.

If you feel that Democrats are abandoning minorities by appealing to white people, than Im sorry you feel that way. But that just isnt what will happen.

 

[dramatis]

^this is what not learning from this shit looks like

Do you mean the rock climbing by Takahashi, or my long reply?

Because I think everyone is eager to push their narratives, when in the end their narrative is no more legitimate than yours or mine or anyone's. Data only reports numbers. Everyone interprets everything differently. But we have a bunch of people who were incredibly bitter about Hillary and barely even supported her (if they did at all), and they're out here screaming at the top of their lungs about how Sanders would have been the one, with flimsy evidence to push their own hypothetical about how the election would have gone.

I can go with Hillary wasn't the right candidate for the time. But I am fairly certain the Sanders supporters' perpetual negativity during the primaries leading all the way to election day depressed the vote in some way. To obstruct and complain and malign over and over and then at the end claim they have the magical panacea to win the presidency based on hypotheticals? Are we supposed to cave to the millennials and the far left every time because they throw tantrums and don't vote when they don't get the candidate they want, who lost democratically in the primaries? What makes their behavior any better than what Republicans did to Obama? Or is it because they're supposedly liberals that it's okay for them to do it to us?

 

[kirblar]

The word is neoliberal. Or Third Way Dems. The DLC. The very people who kicked unions out of the Democratic Party and the working class along with them.

People thought Obama was going to bring progressivism back to the party in 2008 and they came out in droves. He failed them; didn't even hold Wall St accountable for the crash. The people are disillusioned with people like Obama and Hillary and this was clear for over a year now.

"Neoliberal" is a phrase that means nothing.

Dems didn't kick the unions out, the unions died because the world changed.

 

[Protein]

From Keeping it 1600 podcast

“Democrats for a long time have viewed candidates like an Autobot that you assemble from different parts – ‘well, we need a white male from the south that can bring North Carolina and get whites in Ohio...’ – no. We need a person that comes across as a fucking human being. You need someone who you look at and are going to think, ‘this person cares about me, he understands where I’m coming from, he believes in me’, and I think that 30 years in the spotlight, 30 years of being demagogue’d, 30 years of not frankly not having driven yourself in a car, you do lose touch with what people feel in these places. And I’m not saying that gender and race and some of the darker forces that have been swimming in this election the whole time could possibly have a big piece in this.

We put these people together on paper. My college thesis was ‘Working-Class Defection from the Democrat Party’. So then I go join John Kerry and then when he picked John Edwards I was like, ‘this is the greatest VP pick ever’. And then after when we lost in ’04, I stated, ‘we need someone like Edwards in ’08 because Edwards is a white southerner who’s populist and that’s what we need.’ And then I met Barrack Obama and then I thought, this guy doesn’t fit that bill at all. From Illinois, grew up on the south side of Chicago, he’s not going to connect with white, working-class people. And guess what? He won two elections. And look at the success of Bernie Sanders. 75-year-old, socialist Jewish guy from Vermont, did anyone expect that he would connect with white, working-class voters? We do need this connection as a party, but I also don’t want us as a party to start looking and assemble fucking resumes as a way to solve this problem.”

Thoughts?

 

[Pixieking]

Inside the Clinton loss: Who's to blame?

Washington (CNN)The high command of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign believe there's plenty of blame to go around for their stunning loss to Donald Trump.
They're pointing fingers at FBI Director James Comey, unfair media coverage and voters resistant to electing the first woman president.
But many Democrats believe the list should begin with this: Clinton and her campaign.

As a new political order falls over Washington, advisers close to Clinton are trying to get ahead of a bitter round of finger-pointing inside a newly-decimated Democratic Party. In a conference call with top donors Friday, campaign chairman John Podesta said a "hostile press corps" contributed to Clinton's defeat. Other top advisers said Comey's decision to take another look at Clinton's emails stopped the campaign's momentum and motivated Trump voters.

Democrats close to Bill Clinton said Thursday that one mistake Clinton's top aides made was not listening to the former president more when he urged the campaign to spend more time focusing on disaffected white, working class voters.
Many in Clinton's campaign viewed these voters as Trump's base, people so committed to the Republican nominee that no amount of visits or messaging could sway them. Clinton made no visits to Wisconsin as the Democratic nominee, and only pushed a late charge in Michigan once internal polling showed the race tightening.

An assumption that Trump fully appealed to WWC, which meant they ignored the WWC, and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Off to bed (it's 10pm here. ). Stay safe people.

 

[pigeon]

If you feel that Democrats are abandoning minorities by appealing to white people, than Im sorry you feel that way. But that just isnt what will happen.

And there you go.

Like I said, more and more it looks like America is simply not a country in which people of color can live safely. Our rights are simply not important enough for white people to defend.

 

[War Peaceman]

From Keeping it 1600 podcast



Thoughts?

If the point is people with charisma are good then yes that is true. I don't know where this check box idea comes from. Hillary wasn't one - she was the most qualified and most popular. Gore was the VP in a highly successful administration. It is only really political commentators who do that.

 

[DrForester]

Inside the Clinton loss: Who's to blame?




An assumption that Trump appealed to WWC, which meant they ignored the WWC, and it becamse a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If all this stuff is true then Clinton and her team is at the top of my blame list. Entitled idiot, just like in 08, thought she was owed the presidency and just thought she could coast to the finish line. She learned absolutely nothing from her '08 loss.

 

[whyamihere]

From Keeping it 1600 podcast



Thoughts?

This is correct.

 

[VendettaRed07]

CNN is saying Preibus is the lock for Chief of Staff.
.

I hope to God this is the beginning of backtracking from the kind of staff picks that were rumored. Going from Breitbart rejects to this guy makes me feel a lot better.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

I hope to God this is the beginning of backtracking from the kind of staff picks that were rumored. Going from Breitbart rejects to this guy makes me feel a lot better.

Same. Kind of sad isn't it? ...

 

[StopMakingSense]

CNN is saying Preibus is the lock for Chief of Staff.

Weird to say this, but thank God.

 

[lednerg]

Then why didn't they vote for a more progressive platform as Hillary ran this time? Because of Obama? So it isn't Clinton's fault is what you are saying?

Why did Hillary even run? Her slogan was I'm With Her. It was always about her. We owed this to her. She just held a Trump-shaped gun to our heads and as it turns out, that wasn't all too motivating.

All Dems do anymore is ride on the accomplishments of the actual left. Social Security, Medicare, the New Deal. They do this while dismissing leftists and their concerns, calling them silly dreamers, and touting the market above all. Their hubris is astounding, and they'll continue blaming everybody but themselves til the end of time.

"Neoliberal" is a phrase that means nothing.

Dems didn't kick the unions out, the unions died because the world changed.

Dems kicked the unions out in the 70's when they restructured how the primaries are run.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

And there you go.

Like I said, more and more it looks like America is simply not a country in which people of color can live safely. Our rights are simply not important enough for white people to defend.

They have no reason to. If you give white people the option of worrying about a minority or worrying themselves, they will always choose themselves.

If you run a campaign that focuses only on minorities, a huge swath of people are going to feel ignored.

In a perfect world, we wouldve won on the minority vote alone. Shown the message that hey, you cant ignore us. But look what happened. Worst case scenario.

Unfortunately due to how the government was shaped this past week, its democrats who are going to have to keep reaching across the aisle.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Same. Kind of sad isn't it? ...

I really wish that more establishment republicans had stuck by him. I honestly don't think that Trump is considering the types of people who are being rumored because of their views or policy beliefs. Just purely that they were loyal and stuck by him. There isn't a large list of people who did but I'm praying he at the very least picks people capable of doing the jobs they are asked to do.

 

[War Peaceman]

Why did Hillary even run? Her slogan was I'm With Her. It was always about her. We owed this to her. She just held a Trump-shaped gun to our heads and as it turns out, that wasn't all too motivating.

All Dems do anymore is ride on the accomplishments of the actual left. Social Security, Medicare, the New Deal. They do this while dismissing leftists and their concerns, calling them silly dreamers, and touting the market above all. Their hubris is astounding, and they'll continue blaming everybody but themselves til the end of time.

Im With her was awful as a slogan, yes, I said that in another thread.

You know all those achievements were by the Democrats right?

You know how context works right? The USA went through a massive Republican surge with Reagan. Total annihilation of the democrats. In order to build up from that, they had to shift to the left. You can't just change everything at once, it is incremental. This is especially true when Republicans in Congress and the Senate obstinately block all progress.

 

[metalslimer]

If all this stuff is true then Clinton and her team is at the top of my blame list. Entitled idiot, just like in 08, thought she was owed the presidency and just thought she could coast to the finish line. She learned absolutely nothing from her '08 loss.

The sad thing is that they had the resources and people. I'm not going to forgive the people who voted for him but a little more effort could have gotten the few votes she needed to win across a few states.

Clinton had the right idea with her road tour to kick off the primaries and she cemented her African American support early by connecting with people like Mothers of the movement. There was definitely an arrogance from them in how they ran the campaign.

Either way though it seems like at best she was going to win without the senate.

 

[Eidan]

Nobody is saying to drop minorities.

Nobody is saying to abandon minorities.

What we are saying is that you need to appeal to white people as well. That if you laser focus only minorities, you lose like Clinton did, and you will continue losing. Because surprise, minorities are just that- a minority. Not the majority.

Saying all that, that doesnt mean you abandon minorities. It means you have to appeal to both white people, and to minorities.

Right now there is a sentiment of "us vs. Them" that is being created, and that is as dangerous of all hell. The reality is, democrats are never ever going to win by just appealing to minorities. Theyre going to have to appeal to rural Americans, who happen to be white.

This whole generalization of all white rural Americans=racist isnt going to help Democrats in the future. Its that demonization that will guarantee the party to lose.

"But thats what Republicans do, they demonize minorities." Yes. They do that. Do you know why? Because white people are the majority. Because they can afford to do that. We cant afford to demonize the majority or tragedies like this will happen again and again.

If you feel that Democrats are abandoning minorities by appealing to white people, than Im sorry you feel that way. But that just isnt what will happen.

How do Democrats appeal to white people? What do you think white people want to hear that Democrats aren't saying?

 

[Totakeke]

And I'll post that graph when it comes in and it will spell the same thing. Dem voters stayed home.

Overall turnout was up. You cannot conclusively say Dem voters stayed home. You base analysis on data, not the other way around.


Here's a new Nate Cohn tweet.

 

[PBY]

How do Democrats appeal to white people? What do you think white people want to hear that Democrats aren't saying?

Sanders, believable or not, had a clearer message on foreign policy and the economy.

I don't think it was reasonable or necessarily well-formed, but it was easy to digest.

 

[Pixieking]

If all this stuff is true then Clinton and her team is at the top of my blame list. Entitled idiot, just like in 08, thought she was owed the presidency and just thought she could coast to the finish line. She learned absolutely nothing from her '08 loss.

I can't see how you can read a sentence like

"Asked if there was anything they could have done in states like Michigan and Wisconsin to beat Trump, a top aide offered: "Not had Comey send his letter."

or

But aides said the Clinton campaign's top strategists largely ignored the former president, instead focusing on consolidating the base of voters that helped elect President Barack Obama to the White House

And think she thought she was owed the Presidency. She had a flawed strategy that assumed Trump was actually speaking to WWC better than they ever could. That's dumb. That's giving Trump and his campaign more credit than they deserved. That is not "entitlement".

For someone so cautious, she let herself believe she'd won. But, again, that's not entitlement, that's false hope.

And now I really am off to bed.