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PoliGAF 2016 |OT2| we love the poorly educated

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A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Holmes said:
Human Becoming is right about point #2, Sanders hasn't said take money out of politics (as I recall, he said he'd like 100% publicly financed campaigns but that's very unlikely to happen, which is rich (pun intended) coming from him) and that he wants to get rid of unaccountable money and corporate money out of politics. So it's not a big deal that he spent a lot of money on a campaign, unless that money comes from somewhere that he's railing against. The other three points stand, though
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If you're really throwing the blame on Bernie for the VA you're as bad as a Republican.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Thaaaat's pretty shitty, Bernie.
..

Meanwhile, cable news networks carry a shot of Trump's podium for, what, 30+ minutes now? I can hear Rubio and Cruz's campaign managers going nuts at this coverage.
 
A

A Human Becoming

More than a Member
Holmes said:
And your guy isn't a Democrat who uses Republican attacks on the sitting Democratic President.
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Not talking about my guy, I'm talking about you. I'm not condoning his behavior at all.

There are fair criticisms in here about Bernie, I've said that before. When you make clearly unfair criticisms I will say something.
 
D

Drek

Member
A Human Becoming said:
No, it's because this what politics turns into.
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Sure wasn't that way in 2008, a much more contested primary where the anticipated victor lost to an insurgent young upstart. Clinton attacked Obama on points with merit (his experience or lack thereof) and when it became obvious she faded back and Bill stepped forward to campaign for Obama.

The Sanders base keeps trying to demonize the Clintons but in 2008 they played it clean, took the L, and then went to work getting Obama in the White House. They could have pulled back, been surly, and maybe did some real damage to Obama's momentum going into the general election. Her primary base would have loved her for it.

But then Sanders gives no fucks if he does damage to the Democratic Party, as he isn't one, has never wanted to be one, and is only using their primary to suit his own ends. He really is, in almost every way, the left's Donald Trump. He's just far less charismatic and therefore his cult of personality is a far, far smaller pool.
 
B

BanGy.nz

Banned
Let's say on the 15th Trump sweeps the field and wraps up the Republican nomination, does Sanders get out of the way or does he fight to the bitter end?
 
H

Holmes

Member
A Human Becoming said:
Not talking about my guy, I'm talking about you. I'm not condoning his behavior at all.

There are fair criticisms in here about Bernie, I've said that before. When you make clearly unfair criticisms I will say something.
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Then go more into detail about the VA, and how his failure as chair of committee overseeing the VA to fix any problems will be different from how his government-run programs, like single-payer health care, would be implemented. Yes, I wouldn't say the problems the VA has are his fault, but as someone who believes the government has all the answers and should tend to all of our needs, how can he, as the former chairman of the committee, tell us that his health plan will be any different, when he was chairman of a committee overseeing a government-run health care program for veterans that is plagued with scandal and incompetence?
 
B

Bowdz

Member
adam387 said:
New poll from Michigan:

Hillary 65
Bernie 31

Bernie leads among 18-39 year olds 58/39
Hillary leads every other age group.

She leads women 71/26
Among AA voters 84/13.

Guess Northern AAs aren't feeling the Bern either.
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If he gets blown out in MI, FL, and NC, it's gotta be game over right? Even Devine's pie in the sky "Bernie will take the Midwest" plan will start to crumble.
 
G

Gruco

Banned
Drek said:
Sure wasn't that way in 2008, a much more contested primary where the anticipated victor lost to an insurgent young upstart. Clinton attacked Obama on points with merit (his experience or lack thereof) and when it became obvious she faded back and Bill stepped forward to campaign for Obama.

The Sanders base keeps trying to demonize the Clintons but in 2008 they played it clean, took the L, and then went to work getting Obama in the White House. They could have pulled back, been surly, and maybe did some real damage to Obama's momentum going into the general election. Her primary base would have loved her for it.

But then Sanders gives no fucks if he does damage to the Democratic Party, as he isn't one, has never wanted to be one, and is only using their primary to suit his own ends. He really is, in almost every way, the left's Donald Trump. He's just far less charismatic and therefore his cult of personality is a far, far smaller pool.
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TBH I really don't think that Sanders '16 is worse than Clinton '08 in terms of attacking the frontrunner and obstinance in fighting a losing battle. Clinton spent a long time escalating things even when it was extremely clear she wasn't going to win. To be fair, she had the MI/FL back door, and even then she was never losing as badly as Bernie now is. Even so, she held out a long time when the math was against her, and worked hard to tear down Obama. The Jeremiah Wright ads came out of her campaign. As did the 3 AM phone call ad. It really got ugly by May, and she couldn't win.

That's not an excuse for Sanders. Sanders is dead in the water, he's actively misleading his supporters to get them to cough up money, and he's not doing a good job pretending to be a message candidate. But part of me understands that, even as I hate it. Politicians (and Bernie is absolutely a politicians) cling to victory hard, and that's particularly hard to handle in a primary, where an effective loss is so much earlier than a mathematical loss.
 
O

Ophelion

Member
Holmes said:
Human Becoming is right about point #2, Sanders hasn't said take money out of politics (as I recall, he said he'd like 100% publicly financed campaigns but that's very unlikely to happen, which is rich (pun intended) coming from him) and that he wants to get rid of unaccountable money and corporate money out of politics. So it's not a big deal that he spent a lot of money on a campaign, unless that money comes from somewhere that he's railing against. The other three points stand, though.

Anyway, it's really unnerving to see Sanders and his surrogates attack Clinton for Obama's policies (and some outright attacking Obama), especially in a Democratic primary. I'm getting annoyed by it.
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As a grammatical aside, please don't put parentheses inside other parentheses, pretty please? For me? (if you need to have a digression inside your digression please use— your friend and mine—the Em-dash. Just type Alt+0151.)

This message brought to you by the Committee to Keep Ophelion the Pedant from Going Complete Insane.
 
Yoda

Yoda

Member
Look at this amazing diagram from WaPo

venn-diagram.png
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U

User 463088

Banned
Bowdz said:
If he gets blown out in MI, FL, and NC, it's gotta be game over right? Even Devine's pie in the sky "Bernie will take the Midwest" plan will start to crumble.
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He has to win every single state on the board by 7 points to overcome his current 200 delegate gap.

That includes Mississippi and Louisiana.

So, I mean, it's over, but there is no way he can survive anything less than 50/50 in MI, FL and NC.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
adam387 said:
He has to win every single state on the board by 7 points to overcome his current 200 delegate gap.

That includes Mississippi and Louisiana.

So, I mean, it's over, but there is no way he can survive anything less than 50/50 in MI, FL and NC.
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It's even more telling when you consider that Clinton has had almost a 20 point spread to date. So he has to swing things 27 points in his favor from where things have been so far.
 
A

aspiegamer

Member
BoboBrazil said:
He's playing for the general. He's playing chess and these other guys are playing checkers.
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100% ignoring Romney, though? Did his campaign manager drug him before going on stage to keep him sedated? This is the calmest I can ever recall seeing Trump. It's... almost scary.

Ooh here we go...
 
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