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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
13494827_10157092895515230_3816128720532866476_n.jpg

Hello brexit
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
NYCmetsfan said:
This wasn't the Jefferson/Hamilton debate.
It was about federal powers and fiscal control. They both feared tyranny of the majorities.


Laws require 50% in two houses, are limited by the Constitution and require presidential assent.

How anybody can deem this potential tyranny of the majority is beyond me

And again, that's not the divide between hamilton and jefferson. We've firmly landed on hamilton's side
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lol, poor choice of words by me on "debate", forgot that actually references a specific debate when used - meant to talk more about their concepts of popular rule.

I'm not as familiar about the internal politics of Brexit - but from what I'm seeing from the Atlantic / etc, there seems to be a common theme of the distrust of elites leading to people voting almost on reflex against said elites. In the US; I think because we have a representative democracy, that the Hamilton arguments on popular rule functionally won out - but I wonder whether the recent ineffectiveness of said representatives (and the gerrymandering of districts), along with a large distrust of public and private institutions, how that plays out in the US.

The US has always been (at least from my perspective) pretty damn good about stopping the tyranny of the majority - both on a structural level and on a voter level. Country full o immigrants all shoved together, sorta makes sense. But maybe this is just the same old hand-wringing every generation goes through as they get older - but it does seem like we're reaching more and more dangerous levels of polarization, which at least makes me think that the tyranny of the majority becomes a greater and greater possible reality here?

I've always thought of Europe as being an indicator of what may happen in the US years and years down the road. Brexit is very discouraging if I continue on that path. But it does not seem that the EU is analogous to the US, so there is that.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
gutter_trash said:
so my take away on the Brexit's impact on the US election is that the anti-immigrations stances from the Leave camp being successful will encourage Donald Trump to double down on that very issue.

so don't expect any pivot from the Trump campaign
Click to expand...

That's actually pretty logical.
Well, from Trump's point of view and Republicans not understanding the differences between the two countries, lol.
 
E

Emarv

Member
gutter_trash said:
so my take away on the Brexit's impact on the US election is that the anti-immigrations stances from the Leave camp being successful will encourage Donald Trump to double down on that very issue.

so don't expect any pivot from the Trump campaign
Click to expand...
So, finally some good news.

Double down on the exclusionary rhetoric, Donny!
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Fuchsdh said:
Can't wait until people have forgotten about that goddamn play already and I can stop getting into really shitty political discussions with people who suddenly think they understand early American history through some lyrics.
Click to expand...
I love love love Hamilton but I also love (in a totally condescending "Oh, isn't that cute, you think you have opinions" way) how it's fueling the hero worship of the founding fathers. I've seen my share of folks who will talk about how great they are and then turn around on Hillary for being a corporatist stooge faster than you can rap Guns and Ships.

Yeah let's just ignore that the Founding Fathers would all be considered horrible people by today's standards. A big subplot of the play even is that Hamilton cheated on his wife. How can we trust Eliza when she can't even satisfy her husband
 
C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Effect said:
If Sanders expects to take this to the convention does he actually understand, as said, that he can't speak if he doesn't drop out? I'm starting to really wonder if he and his team don't know this.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he's well aware of this, as his campaign was well aware of various democrat primary rules that they later blamed for their losses or accused of being rigged.

It's baffling that someone who lost the race by more than 4mil votes has the audacity to demand wholesale changes to the party platform "or else." Good luck with that.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Listening to Trump talk about the Brexit is profoundly concerning. I can't believe the GOP is running a candidate that didn't even know what it was a few weeks ago, and obviously still has a tenuous grasp on what's going on. On the plane ride over to Scotland they could have just done a quick Google search or went to front page of the BBC to read the temperature of the room.

It's just embarrassing to have a candidate sound so lost and yet still keep talking. His position on it is whatever, but I start cringing when we have a candidate who could probably be slipped up if a reporter asked him to name 6 of the nations in the EU.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Cybit said:
lol, poor choice of words by me on "debate", forgot that actually references a specific debate when used - meant to talk more about their concepts of popular rule.

I'm not as familiar about the internal politics of Brexit - but from what I'm seeing from the Atlantic / etc, there seems to be a common theme of the distrust of elites leading to people voting almost on reflex against said elites. In the US; I think because we have a representative democracy, that the Hamilton arguments on popular rule functionally won out - but I wonder whether the recent ineffectiveness of said representatives (and the gerrymandering of districts), along with a large distrust of public and private institutions, how that plays out in the US.

The US has always been (at least from my perspective) pretty damn good about stopping the tyranny of the majority - both on a structural level and on a voter level. Country full o immigrants all shoved together, sorta makes sense. But maybe this is just the same old hand-wringing every generation goes through as they get older - but it does seem like we're reaching more and more dangerous levels of polarization, which at least makes me think that the tyranny of the majority becomes a greater and greater possible reality here?

I've always thought of Europe as being an indicator of what may happen in the US years and years down the road. Brexit is very discouraging if I continue on that path. But it does not seem that the EU is analogous to the US, so there is that.
Click to expand...

I still don't know what you're talking about when you reference hamilton. Are you talking about madisonian democracy? Hamilton wrote in support of madison's consititution and . Jefferson had no imput and didn't really care much about it as he was in France.

His debate with hamilton and major disagreement was north vs south, industrial vs agriculture. Not about "democracy."

And bolded is nonsense, unless you're calling for the elites to hate minorities and immigrants more. Look ta the word cloud ITV produced. Immigrants and imagined fear of "others" not economic dispondent. They just voted for a party of Eton grads last year!

And your last paragraph has it backwards. Trump is weird but Europe is behind us on the whole immigrant thing. They're going through what we did in the 1800s and early 1900s when we went from a white only nation to multicultural
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Fuchsdh said:
Can't wait until people have forgotten about that goddamn play already and I can stop getting into really shitty political discussions with people who suddenly think they understand early American history through some lyrics.
Click to expand...

People won't forget that play for decades, or longer.
 
B

Bowdz

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
Listening to Trump talk about the Brexit is profoundly concerning. I can't believe the GOP is running a candidate that didn't even know what it was a few weeks ago, and obviously still has a tenuous grasp on what's going on. On the plane ride over to Scotland they could have just done a quick Google search or went to front page of the BBC to read the temperature of the room.

It's just embarrassing to have a candidate sound so lost and yet still keep talking. His position on it is whatever, but I start cringing when we have a candidate who could probably be slipped up if a reporter asked him to name 6 of the nations in the EU.
Click to expand...

The one intelligent thing Mark Halperin has said this week is that he thinks Clinton will try to get Trump caught in a "fact trap" during the debates (e.g. name some very obscure foreign policy point and ask Trump about his position to have him illustrate the fact he doesn't know shit). I can absolutely see her trying that, especially in the foreign policy debate. Just name drop terrorists and foreign security risks and ask Trump some trick question to make him look like the idiot he is.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Bowdz said:
The one intelligent thing Mark Halperin has said this week is that he thinks Clinton will try to get Trump caught in a "fact trap" during the debates (e.g. name some very obscure foreign policy point and ask Trump about his position to have him illustrate the fact he doesn't know shit). I can absolutely see her trying that, especially in the foreign policy debate. Just name drop terrorists and foreign security risks and ask Trump some trick question to make him look like the idiot he is.
Click to expand...

One huge benefit of the Republican debates was how many people were on stage with him. He could keep things vague, attack occasionally, and then stay quiet if they got into real policy questions. I don't even know how you prep Trump to get into a 1 on 1 debate with a former Secretary of State.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Bowdz said:
The one intelligent thing Mark Halperin has said this week is that he thinks Clinton will try to get Trump caught in a "fact trap" during the debates (e.g. name some very obscure foreign policy point and ask Trump about his position to have him illustrate the fact he doesn't know shit). I can absolutely see her trying that, especially in the foreign policy debate. Just name drop terrorists and foreign security risks and ask Trump some trick question to make him look like the idiot he is.
Click to expand...
Please Proceed Mr.Trump
 
M

Mael

Member
Fucking Sarah Palin, she absolutely needs to be Trump running mate.
I know we risk a singularity with how much stupid in the same place but still...
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
I know she doesn't, but does Palin even understand why the EU or UN were formed?

Palin is part of those fanatics that thinks some one world government will usher in the end of days and would kill Christians or something.
 
I

IggyChooChoo

Member
Mael said:
Fucking Sarah Palin, she absolutely needs to be Trump running mate.
I know we risk a singularity with how much stupid in the same place but still...
Click to expand...

With all these high-wattage assholes and idiots in the mix, let's be careful not sell Jeff Sessions short. That Atlantic article about the GOP's "White strategy" made it clear that the South is going to be one of the places most resistant to Latinos, so I quite like the idea of branding the GOP ticket with ignorant, toxic, white male Southernness, of which Jeff Sessions is a fine avatar.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Guys, I can't stop laughing

Queen Elizabeth Screaming At Stockbroker To Dump Everything

700.jpg


LONDON—Following the United Kingdom’s historic vote to exit the European Union, sources confirmed that Queen Elizabeth II spent Friday frantically screaming at her stockbroker to dump everything. “Just get rid of whatever we have—right now, goddammit!” said Her Royal Highness, who reportedly slammed her fist against a 16th-century desk while shouting at her broker over the phone. “There’s no time, so dump the whole fucking portfolio—all of it—on anybody who will take it. Just hurry the fuck up and do it!” At press time, after speaking with several financial advisors, Queen Elizabeth had gathered the rest of the Royal Family together to inform them they will have to cut back by eliminating servants and start pitching in more around Buckingham Palace.
Click to expand...
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
pigeon, you asked me why the EU would negotiate a free trade agreement with the UK.

Sky News said:
German finance ministry strategy paper has recommended making the UK an "associated partner country" of the EU following leave vote
Click to expand...
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Soooooo. Hillary wrote an op-ed in an Arizona newspaper about immigration and how to turn Arizona blue.

More at the link.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opin...hillary-clinton-immigration-arizona/86011342/

Editor's Note: The Arizona Republic invited Hillary Clinton to write a Viewpoints piece explaining how she'd turn red-state Arizona blue. Here's her response. We've extended a similar invitation to Donald Trump.

When Josie Mata was 7 years old, she learned that her mother was undocumented.

From that moment on, Josie went to school every day afraid that she might return home to find her mom gone forever.

The Matas live, work and pay taxes in Tucson. Josie now attends the University of Arizona. Yet like so many other mixed-status families, the threat that their lives could be torn apart is never far from mind.

I’ve met many children and families who share this fear. In Las Vegas, a 10-year-old girl named Karla started to cry when she told me her parents had received a letter of deportation. She should have the chance to be the bright and happy little girl she is. Instead, she’s constantly afraid.

It’s become all too easy to see why.

Just this week, the Supreme Court deadlocked in a critical case, putting on hold executive actions taken by President Obama to provide immigrant families relief from deportation. It was heartbreaking and unacceptable.

And while our system fails to provide certainty to immigrant families, political figures like Donald Trump turn them into scapegoats for many of the challenges facing American families today. His bigotry and fear-mongering may be an attempt to divide our country and distract from his lack of real solutions to raise incomes and create good paying jobs – but it’s not going to work.

Let’s be clear: When Trump talks about forming a “deportation force” to round up and expel 11 million immigrants – he’s talking about ripping apart families like Karla’s and Josie’s.

When he repeatedly suggests that a distinguished American judge’s “Mexican heritage” means that he cannot do his job, it’s the “textbook definition of a racist comment,” to quote the Republican Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.

When he praises local figures like Gov. Jan Brewer and Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he’s endorsing their heartless and divisive policies. And when he speculates about ending birthright citizenship, he’s suggesting undermining the Constitution and tearing American children away from the country they know and love.

Instead of building walls, we ought to be breaking down barriers. Our country has always been stronger when we lift each other up, not tear each other down. We’re stronger together.

That’s why, as president, I’ll fight for comprehensive immigration reform that includes a path to full and equal citizenship, starting in my first 100 days in office. We should do everything we can to keep families together, better integrate immigrants into their communities, and help those eligible for naturalization take the last step to citizenship.

First, let’s focus on families. Today in Arizona, over 200,000 U.S. citizens – the vast majority of whom are children – live in the same household as an undocumented immigrant who qualifies for relief from deportation under the Deferred Action for Parental Accountability (DAPA) program — the program put on hold by the Supreme Court this week.

As a result of the court’s decision, these families, and millions more like them across our country, have been thrown into a state of uncertainty. As president, I’ll continue to defend DAPA and Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) against partisan attacks.

And I’ll do everything possible under the law to go further to protect families. That means ending large-scale raids, ending the practice of family detention and shutting down private detention facilities.

Second, we need to increase our focus on integration and make sure that immigrants are able to thrive in American society. Let’s provide more federal resources to help immigrants learn the English language skills they need to be successful. And because this issue cuts across all levels of government – local, state and federal – I’ll create the first-ever Office of Immigrant Affairs at the White House to help coordinate these policies across the nation.

Third, let’s help the 9 million people in our country who are currently eligible for naturalization become full citizens. They work and pay taxes – yet they cannot vote or serve on juries. Let’s expand fee waivers so that those seeking naturalization can get a break on the costs. And let’s step up our outreach and education, because no one should miss out on the chance to be a citizen.
Click to expand...
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Kristoffer said:
pigeon, you asked me why the EU would negotiate a free trade agreement with the UK.
Click to expand...

I went to look for this story and couldn't find it, so can't really comment.

To be clear, I think the EU will have a free trade agreement with the U.K. eventually. The question is whether they'll do it to keep the UK in the EU, or whether they'll let them leave and then negotiate something worse.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
pigeon said:
I went to look for this story and couldn't find it, so can't really comment.

To be clear, I think the EU will have a free trade agreement with the U.K. eventually. The question is whether they'll do it to keep the UK in the EU, or whether they'll let them leave and then negotiate something worse.
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/746374341286371328?s=09

I expect a real story later today. Since UK has definitively voted for Out and it has everything to do with racism, I presume that it'll just be a "worse deal".
 
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