balladofwindfishes
Member
Then I guess it's just r/politics as usual.
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Then I guess it's just r/politics as usual.
I'll give Cameron credit if he does it, but if UK politics is fractured now that would probably make it a billion times worse.
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The Autumn Wind
That would be proper journalism. We can't have that.
The media gravitates to stupid people and outliers everywhere. Otherwise they wouldn't be on TV.
Personal bit.
I've been through many elections in my life. Some were triumphs where it felt like the entire country was coming together in one voice - 1997. Some were sad gasps of despair where I honestly wondered how we could be here - 2015.
But none have ever hit me like the EU referendum result. I'm going to borrow the language of the right wing here - I honestly don't feel like this is my country anymore, and I want it back. We've made a decision that fundamentally alters everything about our place in the world and our future based on lies, deceit and racism. Unlike an election, there's no bolt hole in 5 years time, no opportunity to rest, recuperate and then resume the political fight. Instead I'm just left hollow, shattered and in utter shock at what's happened and how we got here.
Yesterday I was a member of one of the largest groupings of nations voluntarily coming together in history. Yes it was flawed, but I was proud to be a European citizen.
Today, everyone who ever mocked England for being stuck in the past and obsessed with faded glory was proven right. It honestly feels like my future has been stolen, in a way no general election ever has come close too.
I've been through many elections in my life. Some were triumphs where it felt like the entire country was coming together in one voice - 1997. Some were sad gasps of despair where I honestly wondered how we could be here - 2015.
But none have ever hit me like the EU referendum result. I'm going to borrow the language of the right wing here - I honestly don't feel like this is my country anymore, and I want it back. We've made a decision that fundamentally alters everything about our place in the world and our future based on lies, deceit and racism. Unlike an election, there's no bolt hole in 5 years time, no opportunity to rest, recuperate and then resume the political fight. Instead I'm just left hollow, shattered and in utter shock at what's happened and how we got here.
Yesterday I was a member of one of the largest groupings of nations voluntarily coming together in history. Yes it was flawed, but I was proud to be a European citizen.
Today, everyone who ever mocked England for being stuck in the past and obsessed with faded glory was proven right. It honestly feels like my future has been stolen, in a way no general election ever has come close too.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I really feel for you.
Your right to be a European were basically stolen from you.
It would be horrible if today I woke up and learned my freedom of movement was stolen.
I think to the Erasmus friends I met when I studied in Spain. And how this kind of fraternity is a risk. Is sad that this has happened.
nature boy
Member
Good statement.
No Defcon 5 in the treasury/finance department here, so I think we're going to be fine. Seems pretty calm actually.
That's how a lot of us felt after 2004 in the US and then we had a wave election towards the Dems in 2006/2008. People were writing stuff about a "permanent Republican majority" then. The left will bounce back.
That's how a lot of us felt after 2004 in the US and then we had a wave election towards the Dems in 2006/2008. People were writing stuff about a "permanent Republican majority" then. The left will bounce back.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yea, the US is weathering this storm surprisingly well.
Box of Kittens
Banned
How Can 17,410,742 People Be So Dumb?
We won't be in Europe though. As horrible as it is at the time, you can always survive a national government - I remember 1992 and everyone's shock at the surprise result. But that can't happen here, unless something changes *rapidly* in our political scene and that's incredibly unlikely. We are out of Europe, and probably for the remainder of my l;I've given how long it takes to rejoin and how difficult it is and how opposed large swathes of the country are to it.
There is no come back - it really is a one shot call.
There is no come back - it really is a one shot call.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Defcon 4 is what I meant. Seems normal today.
I walk by the treasurer's office when I leave the building and he seemed a bit stressed on the phone but he wasn't panicking.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Haven't kept up. What's wrong with Cameron?
He's a spineless coward who is also an idiot. Also he's resigned.
I mean, saying I'll vote for Hillary and all my supporters should too is an endorsement, so basically Bernie endorsed today, everything's fine with old dude now.
I am amazed that Trump took credit for Brexit even as the economic calamity continued. For a rich guy he does not follow the stock market.
I am amazed that Trump took credit for Brexit even as the economic calamity continued. For a rich guy he does not follow the stock market.
Tranqueris
Banned
I feel like these people's mindsets should be "oh god I need to look for a job," not "Hillary isn't running her vp choices by us? Who the hell does Hillary think she is? The winner of the Democratic primary or something?"
excelsiorlef
Member
They can't bounce back in to the EU. This wasn't some vote that can be fixed in the next election. This is permanent.
He just counts on his supporters not following it, which they likely don't.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Sorry, any specifics? Stupid american here. Spineless in relation to the brexit vote? Or to immigration? Or to the rights push for this vote?
What the fuck is wrong with the internet, that it becomes listed next to immigration or any of those things? Not to say immigration is bad but how is it even related?
Or is this like a standard candle to tell you how stupid people are?
Spoiled Milk
Banned
David Cameron RESIGNED? lol!
That's why I won't believe Clinton has this in the bag until I see the actual results. Our generation is a bunch of dumbasses. Never underestimate their ability to whine about the system they don't actually partake in is failing to serve them.
Yes. To everything but the immigration thing.
He never should have promised this vote in the first place and instead of falling on the grenade and saving the entire UK from themselves he just bolted.
He was done the second the BBC called it for leave. Odds are we're going to see Boris as PM, god have mercy on their souls.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
How do we get back to the general optimism and expansionary globalism of the post war-era.
I still believe these events are mostly a reaction to the 08-09 crisis but its getting harder and harder to see how the EU, UN, and other supranational forces regain the confidence of voters.
Young people are the only ones who are generally optimistic. Poling bares this out, we want to be engaged in the world while old people are just frightened. You see this everywhere. Bernie supporters, Brexit, Podemos, etc. While old people are going trump, leave the EU, Conservative in the Uk, etc.
I still believe these events are mostly a reaction to the 08-09 crisis but its getting harder and harder to see how the EU, UN, and other supranational forces regain the confidence of voters.
Young people are the only ones who are generally optimistic. Poling bares this out, we want to be engaged in the world while old people are just frightened. You see this everywhere. Bernie supporters, Brexit, Podemos, etc. While old people are going trump, leave the EU, Conservative in the Uk, etc.
His campaign team followed up and said it wasn't an endorsement.
Like Republicans saying Trump will get their vote but not their endorsement.
Because Hillary is apparently just that bad.
There was never any question of this.
shinra-bansho
Member
A few days ago Trump said "Huh?" in response to a question on the Brexit..
Also, seriously why are we talking about Boring Bernie again. Bleh.
Also, seriously why are we talking about Boring Bernie again. Bleh.
Rebel Leader
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Spoiled Milk
Banned
I didn't know this. I thought he would have weathered the storm the best he could, not show up with a suitcase in his hand after fucking the country and announcing, "She's all yours, Boris."
He put all his chips on remain and was fighting off an insurgency in his own party. Dude played the game of thrones poorly.
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andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
He's not lying. Bernie lost all credit. He should have STFU for a good month. And considering his terrible timing, announcing his Hillary support during the Brexit craziness was the best timing for him in about 6 months. He riled his supporters up over the past 2 months and let out a wimper today. The whole world is looking elsewhere. That does nothing for Hillary or progress or the election.
Now, Hillary is up 6 or 7, no one cares and his timing reinforces it. God, he's a damn dumpster fire too. Ignored principles for the NFL PR approach. Brexit is bigger but game 7 of the NBA finals also seems like a good time.
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I know that, there was a hidden message in the email quotes
Ffs, they have the most disjointed communication I've ever seen.
I would argue the opposite.
De Gaulles opposition, and vetoing, of the UK entry into the CEE was the bedrock of a lot of EU hostility from the UK from my grandparents generation. Had the UK joined when it first applied, and been part of the process much earlier on, I honestly feel that we wouldn't be here now.
I'll admit that my statement may be overly simplistic when applied to the UK, but it's at least true that if the US were made up of more white people we'd be much more likely to elect Trump so I'm glad we're not.
Except Cameron only had a 2 and a 7.
Honestly I now think he will endorse her before the convention, though with all the fervor of warm spit.
Well yeah but it was De Gaulle, if there's one thing you have to remember at the time is that their foreign policy wasn't going to be dictated by the US if they could help it.
In that way it was vital that the CEE was independent from US policy which the UK was threatening (at least in the mind of the French diplomacy).
If the whole thing was to end this way, they might as well have not joined at all.
If UK is out they're not coming back without serious commitment on their part.
And for all the anti-immigration British people this is a downright nightmare, France is in an even more advantageous position if they just want to ship immigrant to the other side of the border and let the UK deal with their shit.
North Carolina GAF - there's a gubernatorial debate on now. http://www.wfmynews2.com/news/local/gov-pat-mccrory-vs-roy-cooper-in-first-debate/255147295
Yeah, but they're wrong. I think he just endorsed her accidentally, it's a Kinsley gaffe. Obviously I'll vote for Hillary no matter what happens. Wait, what do you mean I endorsed her? That would ruin my leverage!
On Brexit, Josh Barro has the hot take that the biggest geopolitical danger today is voters voting for geopolitical danger out of anxiety.
I think this is true but it's also very worrying, because, like, there's nothing we can do about it if our country democratically chooses to suffer. Ultimately, although the global economy has recovered quite a bit, it is still true that the fundamentals nearly everywhere are basically poor. We're living through a Lost Generation right now -- it even started with a liquidity trap -- and nobody really seems to know what to do about it.
It's hard to be satisfied with kicking the can down the road*, but ultimately all the alternatives are worse. How do we sell "let's very slowly think about how to solve this problem while people suffer but probably less than they would otherwise suffer"** as the best possible choice?
* Hillary 2016
** Hillary 2016
There is no formal alt-left movement, I just made it up for you. Although there are a lot of people, especially post-Brexit, who seem to have the basic position that the biggest threat to a free and equal society is democracy, which sounds pretty alt-left to me.
Most of them have not gone to the level of proposing benevolent military dictators in order to protect people's civil rights, but that just means you can be the leader.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
It seems like a lot of voters treated the Brexit referendum like one of those PPP troll polls except oops it's real
Spoiled Milk
Banned
"reengaging with the commonwealth"
England is going to try to conquer Canada and Australia! Look sharp, Crab!
I'd consider the anti vaxx/gmo/homeopathy people the alt left. They are just as horrible as the alt right http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1235059
Orbis Tabula
Member
Late, because this thread moves so fucking fast, but I was at that really, too!
Clearly Tim "Steel-Cut" Kaine is the answer.
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