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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour

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E

excelsiorlef

Member
DrForester said:
ZjD946a.gif
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Omg
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
Valhelm said:
Oh, that's much less bad than I expected. Some white nationalist intern found an image from an Neo Nazi site and tweeted it, probably assuming innocuous.

If Trump's campaign actually designed the image with a Star of David, they'd be much more culpable. You can't design that picture by accident.
Click to expand...

How does that make it less bad?

Why does trump have white nationalist interns?

How many white nationalist interns does Hillary have?

How many of Hillary's white nationalist interns have retweeted other white nationalists or tweeted racist pictures?
 
I

Iolo

Member
Why is it that Donald Trump continually gets a pass from certain people for reposting white nationalist propaganda? Once is an accident, twice is suspicious, ten times is a pattern. It's disgusting, frankly, to be so credulous and make so many excuses for this man.
 
A

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Iolo said:
Why is it that Donald Trump continually gets a pass from certain people for reposting white nationalist propaganda? Once is an accident, twice is suspicious, ten times is a pattern. It's disgusting, frankly, to be so credulous and make so many excuses for this man.
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Liberal media is out to get him.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Becerra or bust. Kaine is boring as hell and we also need him in the Senate. Warren is amazing but I don't know if she balances out the ticket -- more like they would overshadow each other. Makes for a strange dynamic.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
plagiarize said:
Yes. Which is why you've got to be more careful in his shoes, because people are always looking to use tactics like this.

Admittedly, even Clinton has stumbled with her comment on the coal jobs and instead of talking about the issue she was forced to back track and clarify and damage control. She's much more guarded and careful usually, so such slip ups are rare for her fortunately.
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He should, but honestly, I think people who wants open and serious discussion about Israel should focus on holding the people who shout "OMG ANTISEMITISM" over anything Israel related accountable for their bullshit.
I mean, I don't think any reasonable person would think that Corbyn is an antisemite, and lord knows there are people in Israel who would call anyone who dare criticize the current government and its policies an antisemite.

Let me know if you want a list of Israeli politicians and journalists who called Obama an antisemite.
 
V

VendettaRed07

Member
I'll make the same point I think I made in the other thread about what Warren does for the ticket.

Hillary doesn't do as well with white women as you would think the first white female nominee would. Hillary picking Warren with the first all female ticket could actually boost her numbers here considerably.

Romney won white women by 14 points against Obama and still got trounced. If Hillary wins that demo, this election is over before it started. Trump would need like 9 out of ever 10 white men to vote for him to even have a chance.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Chichikov said:
He should, but honestly, I think people who wants open and serious discussion about Israel should focus on holding the people who shout "OMG ANTISEMITISM" over anything Israel related accountable for their bullshit.
I mean, I don't think any reasonable person would think that Corbyn is an antisemite, and lord knows there are people in Israel who would call anyone who dare criticize the current government and its policies an antisemite.

Let me know if you want a list of Israeli politicians and journalists who called Obama an antisemite.
Click to expand...

we have people in the party calling hitler a zionist and the leader does jack shit and the problem is the jews who are calling the weak statement basically saying if you support the state of israel your kinda the same as those who support islamic states (and ISIS)? The statement kind of endorses the idea that "the good jews" are those that divorce themselves from israel. Its disgusting. I don't think he's an antisemite but he clearly doesn't get it. Like bernie and african americans. He's not a bigot but he's clueless

Who cares what israeli politicians are saying?

The problem is antisemitism in labour and the left. Not that bibi and others are craven politicans.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Chichikov said:
He should, but honestly, I think people who wants open and serious discussion about Israel should focus on holding the people who shout "OMG ANTISEMITISM" over anything Israel related accountable for their bullshit.
I mean, I don't think any reasonable person would think that Corbyn is an antisemite, and lord knows there are people in Israel who would call anyone who dare criticize the current government and its policies an antisemite.

Let me know if you want a list of Israeli politicians and journalists who called Obama an antisemite.
Click to expand...

You mean like a defense or whatever minister in Israel is on record saying any criticisms of Israel is automatically anti-semetic speech?
 
D

Diablos

Member
GutsOfThor said:
How do they deal with the pardoning of Carlos Vignalli though? That alone should take him off the list.
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No one will care and it was ultimately the Clinton Administration that made the call. Meaning, it could come back in an attack ad anyway because Bill didn't stop it.
 
T

Thequietone

Member
Diablos said:
Becerra or bust. Kaine is boring as hell and we also need him in the Senate. Warren is amazing but I don't know if she balances out the ticket -- more like they would overshadow each other. Makes for a strange dynamic.
Click to expand...

GutsOfThor said:
How do they deal with the pardoning of Carlos Vignalli though? That alone should take him off the list.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I was going to post. Accepting money from that man's father and then asking Bill Clinton for that pardon would have me seriously question the Queen if she made that choice. Warren seems to be the only one that doesn't have any extreme baggage. The worse they can get on her is the Pocahontas thing which makes them seem even more racist. Her and Biden seem to be the only real choices, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was done with being VP.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Thequietone said:
Exactly what I was going to post. Accepting money from that man's father and then asking Bill Clinton for that pardon would have me seriously question the Queen if she made that choice. Warren seems to be the only one that doesn't have any extreme baggage. The worse they can get on her is the Pocahontas thing which makes them seem even more racist. Her and Biden seem to be the only real choices, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was done with being VP.
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When is the last time a VP carried over from a previous administration?

Of course you wouldn't be surprised. I think Biden is done with politics as soon as he leaves the WH. He's had an epic career, fell on some hard times (again) though, and is really starting to get old. He probably just wants to enjoy his life with his family. I think he came to this conclusion when he struggled for a bit with the decision to run for President or not this time around. Now that he made up his mind, he's done... that was the point, that's why he took it so seriously.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Chichikov said:
He should, but honestly, I think people who wants open and serious discussion about Israel should focus on holding the people who shout "OMG ANTISEMITISM" over anything Israel related accountable for their bullshit.
I mean, I don't think any reasonable person would think that Corbyn is an antisemite, and lord knows there are people in Israel who would call anyone who dare criticize the current government and its policies an antisemite.

Let me know if you want a list of Israeli politicians and journalists who called Obama an antisemite.
Click to expand...

Maybe someday these people will realize that the cynical use of allegations of anti-Semitism to police the boundaries of the discourse on Israel actually does a lot to undermine the cause of combating actual anti-Semitism.

I'm not too hopeful, though.
 
I

Iolo

Member
Biden looks really skinny in the face lately, the last couple pictures have surprised me a bit. He's definitely getting up there. :/
 
C

Chichikov

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
we have people in the party calling hitler a zionist and the leader does jack shit and the problem is the jews who are calling the weak statement basically saying if you support the state of israel your kinda the same as those who support islamic states (and ISIS)? The statement kind of endorses the idea that "the good jews" are those that divorce themselves from israel. Its disgusting. I don't think he's an antisemite but he clearly doesn't get it. Like bernie and african americans. He's not a bigot but he's clueless

Who cares what israeli politicians are saying?

The problem is antisemitism in labour and the left. Not that bibi and others are craven politicans.
Click to expand...
That was a historically ignorant statement, no doubt about it, but at most is an anti-zionist statement, not an antisemetic one.
You can be an non-zionist or even an anti-zionist without being an antisemitic. I should know (not to mention that Ken Livingston got that idea from a book written by a Jew).

And really now, for all that hysteria, what antisemitic policies does anyone in the labour promotes at the moment?

p.s.
Ken Livingston was sacked from the labour party, what more do you want them to do?

Father_Brain said:
Maybe someday these people will realize that the cynical use of allegations of anti-Semitism to police the boundaries of the discourse on Israel actually does a lot to undermine the cause of combating actual anti-Semitism.

I'm not too hopeful, though.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and as a Jew (and ex-Israeli) who is not a zionist and doesn't support the policies of Israel, the fact that Israel insists on blurring the lines between Jews and the state of Israel/Zionism upset me on a personal level.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Chichikov said:
That was a historically ignorant statement, no doubt about it, but at most is an anti-zionist statement, not an antisemetic one.
You can be an non-zionist or even an anti-zionist without being an antisemitic. I should know (not to mention that Ken Livingston got that idea from a book written by a Jew).

And really now, for all that hysteria, what antisemitic policies does anyone in the labour promotes at the moment?

p.s.
Ken Livingston was sacked from the labour party, what more do you want them to do?


Yeah, and as a Jew (and ex-Israeli) who is not a zionist and doesn't support the policies of Israel, the fact that Israel insists on blurring the lines between Jews and the state of Israel/Zionism upset me on a personal level.
Click to expand...

Correction, he has been suspended, not sacked.

Also, Livingstone fairly clearly has anti-semitic views, given his past comments calling a Jewish reporter "just like a concentration camp guard" and telling two Jewish businessmen to "go back to Iran if they don't like Britain"
 
I

Iolo

Member
It's so surreal to see this is actually happening, and the Republicans are really going to nominate this guy. The impending VP pick makes it suddenly real for me.
 
U

User 463088

Banned
Just worked 3 hours registering voters. I was supposed to work all day, but I wasn't really feeling well. So, I did a few hours. We had quite a few people register.
 
I

ItWasMeantToBe19

Banned
CNN VP rumors and ranked likeliness:

1. Pence
2. Christie
3. Newt
4. Ernst
5. Sessions

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/03/politics/joni-ernst-donald-trump-vice-president/index.html

As an Iowa state senator, Ernst co-sponsored resolutions concerning state nullification of federal law. One such bill asserted that Iowa could ignore any federal laws which "are directly in violation of the Tenth Amendment," while another "urg[ed] the nullification" of certain EPA regulations related to coal-fired electricity plants.[65][66] In a September 2013 forum held by the Iowa Faith & Freedom Coalition, Ernst said Congress shouldn't bother to pass laws "that the states would consider nullifying", referring to what she describes as "200-plus years of federal legislators going against the Tenth Amendment's states' rights."[67] Courts have consistently ruled that nullification is unconstitutional.[67] During the 2014 Senatorial general election, Ernst's supporters argued that she did not support nullification, and that "her comments on it were about encouraging Iowans to send her to Washington to pass good laws."[65]

When asked at a Montgomery County, Iowa candidate forum in January 2014, about the Supreme Court case about the constitutionality of President Barack Obama's recess appointments, she said that Obama had "become a dictator",[68] and that if he acted unconstitutionally, he should face the proper repercussions as determined by Congress, "whether that's removal from office, whether that's impeachment." When the tape of that event was published in August 2014 by Yahoo News, her spokeswoman said that "If any president oversteps their bounds, there are procedures in place for Congress and the American people to hold him or her accountable. Impeachment is a strong word and should not be thrown around lightly.”[69]
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Definite Trump pick.

Economic issues[edit]
Ernst opposes the federal minimum wage, and instead argues that states should have sole authority to set their own minimum wages.[70] In an August 2014 interview with the Mason City Globe-Gazette, Ernst stated: "For the federal government to set the minimum wage for all 50 states is ridiculous."[71] She has pointed to differences in the cost of living in various states, and has said: "I think $7.25 is appropriate for Iowa, but that's up for our state legislators to decide, and I'm willing to have those discussions at the state level."[72] In response to a report by the Congressional Budget Office report which projected that increasing the minimum wage to $10.10 per hour would cost 500,000 jobs, but would lift 900,000 people out of poverty, Ernst stated that "government and government-mandated wage increases are not the solution—especially when doing so comes at the expense of the jobs of hard working Americans."[73]

During the 2013 legislative session, Ernst worked on legislation which reduced property taxes in Iowa.[74] She supports a "fairer, flatter, and simpler" federal tax code.[46]

In a May 2014 interview with The Des Moines Register, Ernst expressed her support for a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced federal budget, as well as a reduction in spending on entitlement programs and discretionary spending.[46] She has also expressed support for a partial privatization of Social Security accounts for young workers[25] while protecting Social Security for seniors and those nearing retirement.[75]
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Wait, this opposes 20% of Trump's message.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Iolo said:
Biden looks really skinny in the face lately, the last couple pictures have surprised me a bit. He's definitely getting up there. :/
Click to expand...
He's 73. Being VP in this political atmosphere has to weigh on him, and frankly even just the day to day will take its toll.

Throw anything else into the mix and it's no doubt going to adversely affect his health. He lost his son; it's one of the worst things that can happen to a parent. Parents aren't supposed to see their children die. Not to mention he lost his wife and daughter decades ago and I am sure he lived through all of those feelings again when his son died. That alone is no doubt putting an undue amount of stress on him which is not good for his age, especially when you factor back in being the VP, and on top of that weighing a Presidential run... it's probably too much for him to handle and why he ultimately chose not to run.

I went from being disappointed in him for not running but I really get it now. It's just very unfortunate for him, his family and the country that his son died. I think he could have posed a serious threat to Hillary in the primaries and caucuses, not to mention he would have prevented Bernie's ego from getting so big. I don't think he has it in him today to have been able to get down in the trenches and attack Hillary. That would have been absolutely necessary to win the nomination. He honestly could have, though... but the conditions for him are just not even remotely close to being ideal right now and probably never would be again. For all intents and purposes I think his political career is over in 2017. Can you really blame him?
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Chichikov said:
Yeah, and as a Jew (and ex-Israeli) who is not a zionist and doesn't support the policies of Israel, the fact that Israel insists on blurring the lines between Jews and the state of Israel/Zionism upset me on a personal level.
Click to expand...

It should go without saying that the (negative) conflation of Jewish identity with support for Israel is absolutely anti-Semitic and should be condemned.

But given that Israel apologists have spent decades pushing the exact same conflation, albeit from the opposite ideological direction, it's a bit rich for them to condemn it so vociferously.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
CCS said:
Correction, he has been suspended, not sacked.

Also, Livingstone fairly clearly has anti-semitic views, given his past comments calling a Jewish reporter "just like a concentration camp guard" and telling two Jewish businessmen to "go back to Iran if they don't like Britain"
Click to expand...
I think his exchange with Finegold shows mostly that his a raving idiot and garbage human being more than a straight up racist, but whatever, there are racists everywhere, Ken Livingston might be one of them and he was rightfully suspended.
But again, what actual antisemite or racist policies does labour or labour members are promoting?
I'm not being cute here, because I believe this is all about Israel's policies in the west bank and Gaza. I mean lord knows Israel has zero problem with bona fide racists, here's a picture Netanyhu being chummy with John Hagee -

59fl6vy.jpg


John Hagee, besides being a terrible terrible person also said that Hitler was a "half breed jew", said that the anti-christ will be Jewish among other of Christian antisemtism greatest hits he spewed.
But he support the settlements, so it's a-okay.

This is about the occupation, like always.

Father_Brain said:
It should go without saying that the (negative) conflation of Jewish identity with support for Israel is absolutely anti-Semitic and should be condemned.

But given that Israel apologists have spent decades pushing the exact same conflation, albeit from the opposite ideological direction, it's a bit rich for them to condemn it so vociferously.
Click to expand...
It's no only Israel apologists, it's pretty much the official stance of the state of Israel.
And yeah, it's bullshit to end all bulshits.
 
C

CCS

Banned
Chichikov said:
I think his exchange with Finegold shows mostly that his a raving idiot and garbage human being more than a straight up racist, but whatever, there are racists everywhere, Ken Livingston might be one of them and he was rightfully suspended.
But again, what actual antisemite or racist policies does labour or labour members are promoting?
I'm not being cute here, because I believe this is all about Israel's policies in the west bank and Gaza. I mean lord knows Israel has zero problem with bona fide racists, here's a picture Netanyhu being chummy with John Hagee -

59fl6vy.jpg


John Hagee, besides being a terrible terrible person also said that Hitler was a "half breed jew", said that the anti-christ will be Jewish among other of Christian antisemtism greatest hits he spewed.
But he support the settlements, so it's a-okay.

This is about the occupation, like always.
Click to expand...

I think I may have given the wrong impression, I wasn't disagreeing with your other points. I just wanted to Correct the Record (TM) on Livingstone.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
CCS said:
I think I may have given the wrong impression, I wasn't disagreeing with your other points. I just wanted to Correct the Record (TM) on Livingstone.
Click to expand...
Oops sorry, I have a bit of a hair trigger on that subject.
And thanks for the correction.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Feingold would actually be a great VP pick but we also need him in the Senate.

Oh how I wish Democrats didn't lose the Senate in 2014.
 
I

itschris

Member
New York Times: ‘President Hillary Clinton?’ She Wants Progress on Immigration and to Drink With G.O.P.

Should she win the presidency, Hillary Clinton would quickly try to find common ground with Republicans on an immigration overhaul and infrastructure spending, risking the wrath of liberals who would like nothing more than to twist the knife in a wounded opposition party.

In her first 100 days, she would also tap women to make up half of her cabinet in hopes of bringing a new tone and collaborative sensibility to Washington, while also looking past Wall Street to places like Silicon Valley for talent — perhaps wooing Sheryl Sandberg from Facebook, and maybe asking Tim Cook from Apple to become the first openly gay cabinet secretary.

Former President Bill Clinton would keep a low public profile, granting few interviews and avoiding any moves that could create headaches for his wife, like his recent meeting with Attorney General Loretta Lynch during the F.B.I.’s investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s email practices.

Mrs. Clinton would even schmooze differently than the past few presidents have. Not one to do business over golf or basketball, she would bring back the intimate style of former Presidents Ronald Reagan and Lyndon B. Johnson, negotiating over adult beverages. Picture a steady stream of senators, congressmen and other leaders raising a glass and talking policy in the Oval Office with her and her likely chief of staff, John D. Podesta, as her husband pops in with a quick thought or a disarming compliment.
Click to expand...
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Chichikov said:
That was a historically ignorant statement, no doubt about it, but at most is an anti-zionist statement, not an antisemetic one.
You can be an non-zionist or even an anti-zionist without being an antisemitic. I should know (not to mention that Ken Livingston got that idea from a book written by a Jew).

And really now, for all that hysteria, what antisemitic policies does anyone in the labour promotes at the moment?

p.s.
Ken Livingston was sacked from the labour party, what more do you want them to do?


Yeah, and as a Jew (and ex-Israeli) who is not a zionist and doesn't support the policies of Israel, the fact that Israel insists on blurring the lines between Jews and the state of Israel/Zionism upset me on a personal level.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm talking about. It promotes the idea that Jews to be good people need to be policed in their views towards Israel. They need to take the correct view (which by socialists and far-leftists tends to be that a Jewish state is wrong) or they are horrible people. See Zaid's and blumenthals' tweets yesterday.

And I don't think Israel is the problem when it comes to that conflation. Nobody gives a crap when Lieberman calls you an anti-semite for criticizing settlements. but when you start going down the standard tropes and pretend because you use israeli not jewish, you're just "anti-zionist" they're right to point that out.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Father_Brain said:
It should go without saying that the (negative) conflation of Jewish identity with support for Israel is absolutely anti-Semitic and should be condemned.

But given that Israel apologists have spent decades pushing the exact same conflation, albeit from the opposite ideological direction, it's a bit rich for them to condemn it so vociferously.
Click to expand...

First of all there is a lot of debate on the connection with jews and israel in the jewish community.

But its not "rich" for people to condemn outsiders who try to impose on them what they are compared to a internal debate on what the identity means.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
NYCmetsfan said:
This is what I'm talking about. It promotes the idea that Jews to be good people need to be policed in their views towards Israel. They need to take the correct view (which by socialists and far-leftists tends to be that a Jewish state is wrong) or they are horrible people. See Zaid's and blumenthals' tweets yesterday.

And I don't think Israel is the problem when it comes to that conflation. Nobody gives a crap when Lieberman calls you an anti-semite for criticizing settlements. but when you start going down the standard tropes and pretend because you use israeli not jewish, you're just "anti-zionist" they're right to point that out.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I follow.
Corbyn's statement that started this discussion was an attempt to make a distinction between Jews and supporters of current Israeli policies. It was a pretty clumsy attempt, but I'm not sure I'm seeing how it can be construed as an attempt to blur that line.

And Israel literally invented that conflation, Jews did not see themselves as a "nationality" or whatever before Zionism (and eastern European Jews most certainly didn't think of the Arab Jews as being the same people as they are).
We can talk about how much it's a problem, but I'm having hard time seeing how Israel is not promoting that idea, I can drop a billion quotes from Israeli elected officials, religious leaders, military commanders and journalists that explicitly promote that idea if you want.
 
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