-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour
- Thread starter Retromelon
- Start date
- Status
Who didn't see this shit coming? Jesus Christ. You don't probe something to death if the outcome doesn't go your way, Boy Blunder.
Abinash117
Member
Maybe it is a little more complicated than that, or liberals were not focused on income inequality until recently? It also shouldn't mean that socialists have higher moral standing. I say quite a few the claim to be socialist are just that way to improve their own lives and not others they might end up hurting. Like some already argued many socialists probably aren't interested in areas outside the borders. Are there many socialists that advocate that once they get into power they'll use the US wealth and influence to help other poorer countries( if referring to global income equality)?
campfireweekend
Member
I'm an idealist. I believe health care is a human right. I believe in universal coverage. That is an ideal that I won't give up.
I don't believe single payer is the only way to get there. I'm open to workable alternatives. That's the difference between an idealist and an idealogue.
Idealists don't give up on their goals, ideologues don't give up on their solutions. They're married to them. They think only their pet policy is the way to solve a problem.
I would say the vast majority of socialists believe in proletarian internationalism but it doesn't come up much outside of internal dialogue because, well, why would it? Americans aren't interested in that. Very few voters are going to say "I like that guy" when he goes on about the need to liberate East African workers from Chinese capital or whatever, or the necessity of world revolution, or even something like increasing overseas aid in general. I think that's why someone like Bernie, who talks about protectionist methods, more easily gained attention, because his proposals focus entirely on Americans and voters who have been hit by the changed economy can more easily relate to that.
Nationalism is usually only supported by socialists as a temporary step against foreign imperial interests (see: all those revolutions the USSR funded).
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Wait.. I wake from a nap and find that Trump has given praise for Saddam Hussein?!
To make your wake up better
It's trending on twitter
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Well, Sanders won't be speaking at the convention. What a fuckwit.
I almost have built up the frustration to go back and collect a list of all the people who said this would not happen.
As I recall, I was told I was getting worried over nothing. Sanders would endorse after the primaries were over, etc, etc.
I almost have built up the frustration to go back and collect a list of all the people who said this would not happen.
As I recall, I was told I was getting worried over nothing. Sanders would endorse after the primaries were over, etc, etc.
Marxist socialism is internationalist by nature. "Workers of the world, unite!" is the last line of the Manifesto. Essentially all socialists are concerned with global wealth distribution. Some socialists even support revolutionary intervention, like Soviet participation in the Spanish Civil War or Cuban involvement in Angola.
More importantly, the abolition of capitalist institutions would end the flow of wealth from the global south to the global north, as Nigerian oil and Peruvian copper would be managed by Nigerians and Peruvians.
I didn't catch on immediately but yeah that is what that means huh. Something something no difference between an ideologue and an idealist something something.
That difference could not be more stark between Warren and Sanders behavior right now to be honest.
It's fucking crazy. Going after the FBI for being partisan will only appeal to a small subset of voters who already distrust Clinton but will look TERRIBLE to the bulk of the independent electorate. It is so blatantly partisan that it makes Benghazi look like an apolitical non partisan venture.
The damage against Clinton and her trustworthiness is already done. Mission accomplished guys. Her unfavorables are through the roof. She is trusted less than Trump. You guys won. Comey also gave you everything you need to attack her through the fall. His statement was scathing. Just say you respect the FBI and will accept their recommendation and then use his words to batter Clinton until election day. Instead, they have decided to fuck that situation up and lose any advantage they could have gained.
what is in his head? is this Weaver's doing?
God, fuck off Bernie you sour old man. You are a loser and will always be a loser. Stop shitting the bed asshole.
Abinash117
Member
Well it depends, if you want to help the poor and deal with the issue of global income equality not really mentioning on how you are supposed to deal with it outside the borders doesn't really seem genuine . Most candidates have a plan of some sort of how we should deal with the world, but that is a moderate or small part of the campaign. A person like Bernie does not have to make his campaign centered around it, but bring it up like how some candidates bring up foreign policy. Solving the issue of global income equality can help it solve it here.
But solving global income equality isn't a focus or it doesn't seem like. As I said many don't really talk how do we solve it outside just ranting. Even Bernie Sanders did not make it a focus. I believe that solving the issue requires more than just focusing on the US because of how powerful the corporations are and how many countries export their own citizens. How do we go about abolishing capitalist institutions in Nigeria and Peru? How would the US deal with it? Again socialist seem more interested in isolation and are protectionist. But again socialism in the US is disorganized and is more down to the individual.
He's not worth the energy.
StopMakingSense
Member
Sorry to be blunt, but his is an incredibly white perspective.
So what you're saying is.. There's a chance Bernie still might clinch it due to more investigations in Clinton?!
It's not though. Sanders gets flack for being an ideologue, not for being an idealist. There's a pretty distinct difference between the two.
Exactly. Most people in here are idealists, Warren is an idealist. Obama is an idealist. Hell, on certain issues Hillary is an idealist. No one in this thread has an issue with idealists, saying we do is dishonest. We have problems with ideologues.
User 463088
Banned
Look. The FBI Primary was just over a few hours ago. We haven't even finished counting all the votes. Let Bernie feel like a special butterfly for a few......no, I can't even muster up enough energy to be an asshole towards Bernie anymore.
I love how the Burlington paper said he "came in second" to Hillary. You know. In a two person race. He came in 2nd.
Only white people are academics?
TestOfTide
Banned
I wish the press would just ask him these questions over and over again:
- Why are you acting like a child?
- Why are you wasting secret service resources?
- Why are you intent on burning bridges?
- Why can't you just accept the unprecedented kindness the DNC gave to you?
- Do you want to be remembered as Nader 2.0?
- How would you feel if the DNC decided to run a democrat in Vermont for your seat just to spite you?
Just over and over again until he snaps and just admits that he is wasting everyone's time.
Poodlestrike
Banned
False equivalency; wealth inequality is getting worse, but that's not because the poor are getting poorer (generally) but because the rich are getting richer. 2/3 of the vanishing American middle class is moving UP out of the bracket. The 1/3 is a problem, to be sure, but treating wealth inequality as the be-all end-all is missing the point, largely. The refrigerator image gets rightly mocked, but at the same time, if standard of living is going up it's going up.
Now, all that isn't to say that we don't have a wealth distribution issue. That 1/3 of the middle class departures going downwards is largely due to eroded worker rights and the demise of pro-worker culture in the States, but that doesn't require a radical departure from capitalism to fix, it needs stronger unions.
But, again, fighting to solve or reduce inequality is not the same as "screw the rich." Wealth isn't finite. You can make the poor richer without making the rich poorer, or at least, not significantly poorer. This is demonstrated by the effects of globalization on real-world poverty statistics. The worker's rights issues presented are admittedly pretty goddamn far from ideal, but it still beats starving to death, and it opens up the possibility of the transition to something better.
Well, an optimistic interpretation is that the "victory statement" will be about the concessions they've obtained in the party platform, leading to an endorsement of Hillary. Of course, given that this is Bernie we're talking about, I'm not so sure.
StopMakingSense
Member
Fuck that, you are deliberately misinterpreting what I said. The socialists I know in LA certainly aren't "academic Marxists" of the type I was describing earlier. The friend of mine in New York wouldn't dream of actually getting down in the trenches the way my friends have.
Tranqueris
Banned
In retrospect keeping the current thread title was probably a good idea even with the indictment/obama rally news today. Anyway I'm not really that annoyed, I saw the list of people campaigning with Hillary and it took me a good 3-4 minutes to realize that Bernie wasn't on the list. Refusing to concede and dragging this all the way out really accelerated Bernie towards irrelevance faster than I ever thought it would.
User 463088
Banned
Because the millionaires and billionaires on Wall Street have created a corrupt campaign finance system!
Look, we live in the only country on earth in which health care is not a human right.
: wags finger in your general direction :
I'm going to do something radical. I'm going to tell you the truth. And the truth is...RIGGED!
: finger wagging intensifies :
I'd respond to this, but I have to go hang out with the Pope at the Vatican again. Did you hear about the bird? It was a YUGE deal.
shinra-bansho
Member
We are all the poors compared to Kev.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
It means Clinton was influential and the lead proponent of a policy that turned away the children coming in droves to the border from the war torn regions of Central America.
Ok, definitely only saw this on Facebook and had not seen the Twitter comments.
Cute.
Sure you did, Louisa.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
All of PoliGAF just quaked in its collective boots.
Socialism PoliGAF is actually getting pretty big at this point, albeit most of them are splitters.
We all split down here.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Kev and I are the only ones left that believe in market forces
and rich people
Retromelon
Member
Been getting anime girl ads forced upon me by neogaf lately. The other one showed an Asian cartoon character evolving larger breasts as she leveled up from 1 to 5 to 10.
This is all very dignified
Can't wait for the mountain dew and fleshlight ads in the future
What are CVS and why would you need 200 of them
Hold on, I been watching a senran kagura let's play on YouTube
Shit
This is all very dignified
Can't wait for the mountain dew and fleshlight ads in the future
What are CVS and why would you need 200 of them
Hold on, I been watching a senran kagura let's play on YouTube
Shit
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You're forgetting that they're in crisis mode. They are going to lose badly unless they stick a Hail Mary.
Guys this email thing looks really bad, this is going to improve prospects for Trump
Essentializes and epitomizes the idea Clinton is above the law for the casual observer
It's not even about persuading people to vote for Trump, all they have to do is disillusion enough liberals to not vote for anybody or vote 3rd party
Essentializes and epitomizes the idea Clinton is above the law for the casual observer
It's not even about persuading people to vote for Trump, all they have to do is disillusion enough liberals to not vote for anybody or vote 3rd party
K huelen
Stick your nose outside of this thread
I'm not talking about facts, I'm talking about optics
I was going more Diablos personally. The damage that the emails would do are baked in already. I doubt this has much of an impact. /takes off pundit hat
Optics aren't real, that's why they're called optics.
If this is bad then let's wait for the polls to say so. (And even then we should wait til after the DNC reminds marginal Democrats of why they're marginal Democrats.)
AnotherNils
Member
At this point I have the crazy feeling the GOP would rather get negative media coverage for investigating clinton for the nth time because it takes media time away from Trump and gives the media something different to harass them on.
Especially since even during Hillary's supposed worst time, Trump is still righting more material to get attacked on.
So she was just backing Obama and his administration's policy. I don't see why she would be in any way responsible.
Citation needed. She hadn't been Secretary of State for over a year when this blew up in the summer of 2014.
Too soon. Huelen was so excited this morning, and couldn't even make it through the day.
shinra-bansho
Member
Cartoon Vaginas.
This eliminates Kaine from the running, as far as I'm concerned.
As much as I hate to admit it, Hillary needs to pick the cleanest candidate in the running. Because Comey just gave the GOP enough ammo to drag out this email crap for months.
And nobody will be able to convince that wasn't the entire point.
As much as I hate to admit it, Hillary needs to pick the cleanest candidate in the running. Because Comey just gave the GOP enough ammo to drag out this email crap for months.
And nobody will be able to convince that wasn't the entire point.
The memes are just getting started.
- Status