Yes but they're usually not this bad.
Also, Mika is a Democrat? Wow
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour
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Also, Mika is a Democrat? Wow
His attack doesn't comply with the rest of the Statement, it's kind of weird and infuriating. I would agree -- It's pretty damaging.
Obama should have picked a Democrat over Comey. His eagerness to appoint Republicans bites him in the butt and they hate him anyway.
Let's be real, Democrats lucked out the Republicans finally imploded.
I do not think Hillary beats a Romney tier candidate.
nature boy
Member
No developments I guess. Last I heard the media were trying to get the Trump video depositions.
Me neither, I think Kasich would beat her.
Bel Marduk
Banned
I agree.. at best it would be an uncomfortably close race. She might even have lost to McCain... but this time I'm sure she's got it and, assuming she's a decent president, should have no trouble getting re-elected in 2020.
User 463088
Banned
She would not have lost to McCain in 2008. No Democrat, save Edwards had the scandal come out, would have lost to him. Bush had poisoned the well too deeply for any Republican to actually have a decent chance of winning.
But, the email thing is what it is. I think it's pretty well baked in at this point. If the GOP was smart, they'd let it go officially, while hammering her constantly about what the FBI director said. They've never learned. Something about the Clintons makes them go fucking insane.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Demographics still hurt the GOP. The electoral map is not really friendly to them at all, and gives the Democrats a little flexibility.
It's not just republicans though - look at the posts in that thread. The right have managed to build up a public opinion of Hillary that is so wildly unfair and deeply partisan across a much broader base than just right wing nut bags. I think it's deeply unfair and deeply sexist, and I despair of the people who keep saying "In my job I would be fired instantly!", but some of these are the voters that the democrats need in November.
I dunno, I think this actually turned out worse than I was expecting. I never in a million years expected an incitement, so to have the FBI director get a platform to attack her for 14 minutes in this way was not what I thought would happen at all.
There's a distinct possibility the situation is even worse in 2020. With the Democrats unlikely to win the House, there is a good chance all legislation is blocked, diving Hillary's favorables even lower. Then combine that with a lack of Democrat turnout and possibly a Paul Ryan appearance and we have a scary problem.
Like I said this election is not in the bag for Hillary. The FBI investigation is done but the political fallout has the potential to be massive. If it lingers for more than a couple weeks it's just bad for her. She really can't afford to have her negatives get any worse but this might happen now.
I expect a small trump bump and maybe Johnson gaining some steam if this doesn't settle down fast.
I expect a small trump bump and maybe Johnson gaining some steam if this doesn't settle down fast.
User 463088
Banned
I take a lot of those posts with a grain of salt, to be honest. These are the same people that are calling for Biden to run because they're so progressive. The FBI Director had no right to do what he did, but this has always been a political issue, and meh. Whatever.
CNN, NBC News have moved on. Fox News is still clinging to it, but that was always going to happen no matter what. Her trustworthy numbers aren't going to get any lower. She benefits from Trump being the alternative. She has a few months to repair the damage. In fact, I think a big chunk will be "fixed" after the convention. With everyone reminding people why they're democrats, it'll be fine.
However, I do believe she needs a good Veep selection to move the narrative. (Warren still being the best bet.)
nature boy
Member
It's not just the emails, it's also the Clinton Foundation and some of Bill's antics (like last week). A certain perception that they're different and above the law.
She needs all the Obamas and Warrens she can get.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
what's up with these reuters/ipsos polls being such huge gaps.
But surely he doesn't have THAT much faith in his party? He can't be THAT much of an idiot.
Anybody could have known that the the SECOND he politicized this like he did; the second he inserted his own opinion and used language that highly suggested that he thought she did something illegal, but then refused to indict, that Republicans were going to be gunning for him too.
He'd have been better off with a simple statement saying that FBI didn't find cause to indict. It's true, and would have kept his nose above water.
plagiarize
Banned
So, the Chilcot report is out, which is new news. If it hasn't already been linked here is a story on it:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ny-blair/ar-BBtZX5I?li=AA54ur&ocid=spartanntp
Basically, Tony Blair did whatever Bush told him to with regards to the Iraq war. I think it was in here the other day that someone laughed at my suggestion that the Tories would have gone along with Bush too, and who claimed that Blair was the one who wanted to go into Iraq.
Well that's not remotely the story the Chilcot report is telling. Tony was spineless in trying to appease Bush and the USA and he let the UK down very clearly. But Bush was the one who wanted to go into Iraq regardless of UN backing or any of that.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ny-blair/ar-BBtZX5I?li=AA54ur&ocid=spartanntp
Basically, Tony Blair did whatever Bush told him to with regards to the Iraq war. I think it was in here the other day that someone laughed at my suggestion that the Tories would have gone along with Bush too, and who claimed that Blair was the one who wanted to go into Iraq.
Well that's not remotely the story the Chilcot report is telling. Tony was spineless in trying to appease Bush and the USA and he let the UK down very clearly. But Bush was the one who wanted to go into Iraq regardless of UN backing or any of that.
User 463088
Banned
Again, though, these are not new things.
I think you all give the American electorate way, way too much credit. We're pretty stupid and have short memories for a lot of things.
Look at the most recent stories on CNN:
UK report gives damning verdict on Iraq War
Opinion: Was Iraq War worth it?
Trump praises Saddam for ...
Pistorius gets 6 years
Messi will not go to prison
Why Comey stood alone
KKK wins highway ruling
Politician IDs son as Dhaka terrorist
Rio cops: Visitors won't be safe
Lottery jackpot jumps past $500 million
Delta loses $450 million bet
Super typhoon aims for Taiwan
PBS' fake fireworks anger viewers
The article on Comey was just a logistics article of how/why he did what he did.
Obviously, this isn't great news, but I don't think it's campaign ending or ultra damning. It's an annoyance, that we can overcome.
Don't want partisan attacks from the FBI Director? Don't be a moron and appoint a Republican to the position when you're a Democrat, problem solved. If Obama had gotten through his skull earlier that no Republican in Washington is his friends he'd have saved himself and the party a good deal of grief over his two terms.
Adam, you need to finish those news stories. This is far from over.
UK report gives damning verdict on Iraq War which Hillary Clinton voted for
Opinion: Was Iraq War worth it? (Hillary Clinton voted for it, FYI)
Trump praises Saddam for ... what does it matter? The Iraq War took Saddam out, and Hillary Clinton voted for it.
Pistorius gets 6 years Hillary gets 0 for breaking the law. F*ck you, Comey.
Messi will not go to prison and neither will Hillary. F*ck you again, Comey.
Why Comey stood alone while the rest of the FBI wanted to indict Bitch Hillary
KKK wins highway ruling..
Politician IDs son as Dhaka terrorist, probably got his start due to Clinton-Obama presidency
Rio cops: Visitors won't be safe if Hillary Clinton is president
Lottery jackpot jumps past $500 million, which is 1% of what Hillary Clinton made on speech circuit
Delta loses $450 million bet on whether or not Hillary Clinton would be indicted
Super typhoon aims for Taiwan. Maybe Comey should learn a thing or two about how to take aim at something.
PBS' fake fireworks anger viewers, much like Bitch Hillary does
plagiarize
Banned
On Comey, it's July. Election Betting Odds went up since the report came out in Clinton's favor. I tend to agree with those who think Clinton was being more damaged by the possibility of the indictment by a harshly worded non indictment.
People already listed the e-mails as the main reason they didn't trust Clinton. I really don't think yesterday changed anything for the worse. No indictment. Sure, the e-mail mess isn't completely gone as a negative for Clinton, but she was winning in the polls with that story all over the news, and I'm sure she still will be in four days and in four week and in four months.
This fades from here. Even if it doesn't fade as far and as fast as we were hoping. That's all Comey has arguably done. Yes, he's continued the narrative that Clinton is a liar who doesn't care about due process and thinks she is above the law. I just don't think he'll have sold a measurable amount of people on that idea.
People already listed the e-mails as the main reason they didn't trust Clinton. I really don't think yesterday changed anything for the worse. No indictment. Sure, the e-mail mess isn't completely gone as a negative for Clinton, but she was winning in the polls with that story all over the news, and I'm sure she still will be in four days and in four week and in four months.
This fades from here. Even if it doesn't fade as far and as fast as we were hoping. That's all Comey has arguably done. Yes, he's continued the narrative that Clinton is a liar who doesn't care about due process and thinks she is above the law. I just don't think he'll have sold a measurable amount of people on that idea.
IggyChooChoo
Member
I loathe the way the Clinton Foundation has been cynically portrayed as the Clintons' personal piggy bank, when in fact, it is a truly excellent public health organization. It is not the worst thing that's happened this campaign season, but it is the thing that enrages me the most, because I've seen Clinton Foundation clinics in East Africa. They do vital work for people who need it most.
Anyway I agree, though how Hillary handles questioning over the next few weeks and in the debates is critical. Don't want to fumble again.
And I think she should pick warren. Needs to look squeaky clean.
No1curr about Clinton foundation except existing haters.
GutsOfThor
Member
I think the timing couldn't have been better for her. The media will talk about this for the next couple days but then switch next week to the run up to the rnc and then the rnc the week after followed by the DNC the last week of July. The next time they will focus on this again won't be until the beginning of August. By then how many people will have forgotten or just simply not care anymore?
As said it's Morning Joe. For all the negatives they talk about in regard to Trump (after having him on daily), Joe and Mika latch on to all republican talking points and direction. Trump is that just out of line for them..... at the moment. They haven't changed though. Scarborough is still a hypocritical asshole who thinks he knows all because he spent some time in congress.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I usually have CBS news on in the morning and I have to say it sounded rough. They played a supercut of the eight million times Hillary has said she never sent classified information in the last year. The interdepartmental tiffs over classification seems too fine a hair to split for the press.
plagiarize
Banned
It's going to just become one more word that the Anti Hillary brigade throw out that we're all supposed to know and agree is a terrible terrible thing.
"But what about Whitewater, Benghazi, Emails?"
They way they handle it though makes them come off as conspiracy theorist though. Especially with Trump out there saying things. He sounds like a madman from the clips that get played. They've tried to go after the Clintons so much over the years that I don't really think most are all that surprised or bothered anymore. Those that hate them will latch on but those that don't or are indifferent it will fade to the background like all the others. At some point when you see someone attack over and over again and they still come out well you have to wonder if the problem isn't them but those that can't let it go who keep attacking them. That said they need to get their wording right when it comes to talking about what Comey said just so it can't continue to be use as an attack. The flip side I guess is that might be all they do is attack and attack and not offer any actual plans or solutions. People do notice that.
I do agree Hillary needs to keep up events with Obama, Biden, Warren, etc. Those need to happen as often as possible leading into the convention and especailly after it. There need to be days where everyone is holding events so they dominate the news cycles. They need to focus on driving up the numbers come the election. Makes sure there is record turn out among dems of all strips. Hold the states that were won in the past. As long as those numbers hold it's over before even the first vote is cast.
I forget who here was with me on the basic income jazz regarding Clinton, but she's since been asked about it, and her answer is bewildering.
I guess it speaks more of her personal upbringing and perceptions of people which are opposed to statistics, trends, and concerns people in office now are talking about. She speaks almost to common myths and assumptions about quite a few things, which I doubt she even realizes have holes in them. It also shows she doesn't even agree with people she's worked with who know more about the trends than she does...
How fucking disappointing. This is the whole "we're not Denmark" answer to really not aiming far enough on a social policy, which in a way justifies what we presently lack.
It's a step above "God-given potential" nonsense, so props given there...? :3c
I guess it speaks more of her personal upbringing and perceptions of people which are opposed to statistics, trends, and concerns people in office now are talking about. She speaks almost to common myths and assumptions about quite a few things, which I doubt she even realizes have holes in them. It also shows she doesn't even agree with people she's worked with who know more about the trends than she does...
How fucking disappointing. This is the whole "we're not Denmark" answer to really not aiming far enough on a social policy, which in a way justifies what we presently lack.
It's a step above "God-given potential" nonsense, so props given there...? :3c
Yeah. It sounds extremely bad and is perhaps the strongest attack ad yet against her. Comey didn't hold back.
plagiarize
Banned
The USA is not the first country that is going to try out basic income. I mean, that's a given. Maybe a state will give it a go, but it's going to be tested on a much smaller economy first. And I think that makes a lot of sense.
What do you think they'll be talking about at the RNC exactly? Her schmemail server?
Yeah, I don't think this is going to go away without the Clinton Campaign working to make it go away. This was damning. Comey knew what he was doing. He simultaneously reinforced perceptions that Hillary is a liar AND that the system is rigged when he spent all that time trashing her only to not indict.
And better believe every Republican with skin in the game is going to milk this to high heaven. It's the most recent scandal they have, and the only thing they can really attack her on in light of Trump.
And better believe every Republican with skin in the game is going to milk this to high heaven. It's the most recent scandal they have, and the only thing they can really attack her on in light of Trump.
User 463088
Banned
I have to agree with Hillary in that I'm not sold on basic income either. It's always going to be a tough sell in the US, and perhaps I'm a product of socialization as much as the next person. I can't say I'm in favor of it yet.
It's the first morning news cycle for the broadcast networks, so it's the full force of yesterday. If it's not better in a week, that would be cause for concern. For now we just have to sit tight. Honestly I feel like the same thing happened when the state department report came out and then it tailed off.
Sure, that I can buy. Hell, I would buy a "we're not pulling the trigger until more data is done through tests". That's really why no major country has pulled the trigger yet, because there's internal uncertainty. I can respect that, in fact.
What I don't like is the myth such a program means everyone can - and more importantly, will - somehow do nothing at all knowing their basic necessities are no longer at risk to coercion tactics, which Clinton clearly highlights in her response about the program.
I was going to post exactly this but couldn't get the words right.
The USA is the worlds largest single economy. It is also, for better or for worse, the leader of the West and the worlds only remaining superpower. Culturally it impacts on the world everyday in ways we can't even imagine.
It's not going to shift to universal income before someone else does. It would be wrong for it to do so - supposing it didn't work, at all? The world can't *afford* for the USA to be leaping off into the dark with untested policies, no matter how great we think they are.
The USA isn't Denmark may sound trite, but for something like universal income I'm afraid it's true. We need to see how it works elsewhere before we potentially blow up the single most important in the world.
The difference is that the investigation has concluded and Comey put a lot out there for Hillary haters to chew on. He basically all but indicted her. It's definitely a political indictment if nothing else and seeing as how it's the official statement that's pretty scathing and could damage the campaign.
Comey also gave the Republicans a good way of attack instead of looking like the raving lunatics they usually have on this issue.
And so did the state department report. What is an "all but indictment" if not not an indictment? Give it time.
Keep in mind Comey isn't impartial and was playing politics with the grandstanding he did in front of the press to try to take the heat off the FBI.
What he says shouldn't be taken as gospel, nor as factual.
GutsOfThor
Member
Good point.
It's less at this point that I think he will hurt Clinton (though there is still a non-zero chance) and more that all his recent public-facing actions are those of a man who seems bitter, delusional and clearly not doing everything he can to prevent Trump from winning. It's a validation of literally everything Barney Frank and anyone who has ever been critical of Sanders has ever said. It's........weird and not in a remotely good way.
I have no inherent issue with MSNBC bringing on conservative voices - many of them have interesting/useful/insightful things to say even if I don't always agree with them (Micheal Steele, Nicole, etc.) and some of them are just funny (Rick Wilson). The "problem guests" are those who are clearly living on another planet or don't even try to see out of their own worldview (Hugh Hewitt, that woman who used to work for Carly Fiorina, almost any person associated with the Trump campaign). There its less "I disagree with this person but I still respect them" and more "this person is actually insane". Morning Joe can also be pretty dumb from the few times I've seen them but they stick to their show. If you aren't interested in what they have to say, they aren't going to be showing up on every show all day long.
I know many in Poligaf like fucking the basic income chicken but lets be real, its not an attractive sell to most Americans, even those on the left who genuinely care about poverty. Putting aside that you're going to have problems convincing a lot of people its "obviously a good idea", implementing it would be a tall as hell order in the States (that might not even work or be a good idea!).
Also this!
You know, that's honestly something I never considered before. Of course the United States won't be the laboratory for this sort of thing... it makes so much sense, but I just never thought about it that way before.
plagiarize
Banned
Well I think that's more about not, you know, undermining what she says about people wanting to do *valuable* work. She doesn't think we should prop up jobs we don't need any more, because that's stupid. See her comments on coal jobs. She thinks people want to work, and she wants to find them valid work they can feel good about doing.
I think that's a great message, and right now I think there is plenty of potential jobs between scaling up green energy and fixing and expanding infrastructure etc to keep people in good jobs for at least a few more years.
plagiarize
Banned
I just hope that if other places try it out, and it works, that we don't see the same stupid 'stick head in sand' nonsense the USA currently does about universal healthcare which has been pretty adequately vetted as viable due to it being implement in numerous other countries around the world.
But even so, the USA shouldn't go first on basic income.
ThLunarian
Member
Man. I'm trying to argue with some Facebook people that Hillary Clinton didn't break the law, and I'm getting pounded by people who have actually gone through the process of getting a security clearance who believe she's getting treated with kid gloves in comparison to how they'd get treated.
I can't effectively respond to them because I've never had to get a security clearance. Even legal arguments about mens rea and actus rea seem ineffectual.
It's tough out there. To the other Facebook warriors out there, I salute you.
I can't effectively respond to them because I've never had to get a security clearance. Even legal arguments about mens rea and actus rea seem ineffectual.
It's tough out there. To the other Facebook warriors out there, I salute you.
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