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[Dierce]

So shit is going down in Turkey right now...

Further proof to any living being with a working brain that this world cannot afford and accept the orange turd.

 

[Suikoguy]

So shit is going down in Turkey right now...

That's a game over in Tropico IIRC.
Considering what a ass Erdogan has been who knows if it's good or bad.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

Good summation of the issue. I agree with everything except Pence being "an idiot." He just seems like a backup plan. Somebody Trump chose to mend fences with establishment. I don't think that's what he needed.

He needs broad Republican support, not the establishment. But yes I do think Pence is a blustering idiot. Just watch that interview with Stephanopoulosaurus where he can't even admit being gay is not a protected class in Indiana.

 

[User 463088]

So there Turkey thing doesn't seem good.

 

[metalslimer]

Military has taken over turkey. Hopefully the bloodshed can be kept to a minimum...but considering the situation things could turn extremely ugly

 

[Spoiled Milk]

So there Turkey thing doesn't seem good.

Military has taken over turkey. Hopefully the bloodshed can be kept to a minimum...but considering the situation things could turn extremely ugly

Things look GREAT, actually. Erdogan is a fundamentalist piece of shit and deserves to be overthrown. He has exacerbated relations with the Kurdish commies and has doubled down on Turkey being all Muslism, all the time. The military has historically been the secularist, humanist faction and has tried to make Turkey pro-European, pro-secular. The current government despises the military because of this.

I don't know how the people feel. But there are enough people in the military who agree, at least. The military is doing what Obama has been too weak to do, which is demand secularism and reduce fundamentalist hysteria in the country of Turkey if they are to remain a NATO ally.

Fuck Erdogan, let the blood shed.

Only worry is that PKK starts an opportunist secessionist war.

 

[thcsquad]

That's a game over in Tropico IIRC.
Considering what a ass Erdogan has been who knows if it's good or bad.

Somebody tweeted at Chris Hayes that maybe they are loyal to ' a guy in Pennsylvania', which I googled and found this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_Gülen

Given how much of a dictator Erdogan was, if the point is to install this guy it could end up being a good thing, provided no bloodshed.

 

[metalslimer]

Things look GREAT, actually. Erdogan is a fundamentalist piece of shit and deserves to be overthrown. He has exacerbated relations with the Kurdish commies and has doubled down on Turkey being all Muslism, all the time. The military has historically been the secularist, humanist faction and has tried to make Turkey pro-European, pro-secular. The current government despises the military because of this.

I don't know how the people feel. But there are enough people in the military who agree, at least. The military is doing what Obama has been too weak to do, which is demand secularism and reduce fundamentalist hysteria in the country of Turkey if they are to remain a NATO ally.

Fuck Erdogan, let the blood shed.

Only worry is that PKK starts an opportunist secessionist war.

I don't have any sympathy for the government, but we've seen how quickly these situations can spiral out of control

 

[The Technomancer]

Oh my god this election is amazing

Terrifying and amazing

 

[Spoiled Milk]

I don't have any sympathy for the government, but we've seen how quickly these situations can spiral out of control

No we haven't. Turkey knows how to have a smooth military takeover. They've had four in the past 50 years. Here's General Cevik Bir in 1997 on the last military coup that happened:

In Turkey we have a marriage of Islam and democracy. (…) The child of this marriage is secularism. Now this child gets sick from time to time. The Turkish Armed Forces is the doctor which saves the child. Depending on how sick the kid is, we administer the necessary medicine to make sure the child recuperate.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

I don't know how the people feel. But there are enough people in the military who agree, at least. The military is doing what Obama has been too weak to do, which is demand secularism and reduce fundamentalist hysteria in the country of Turkey if they are to remain a NATO ally.

Fuck Erdogan, let the blood shed.

Only worry is that PKK starts an opportunist secessionist war.

The people have consistently supported Erdogan and his party. He's never lost an election and only came close once. Even if the military coup is successful they're still going to have to deal with the fact that PKK is by far the strongest party in the country.

 

[Holmes]

Clinton met with Warren, Castro and Hickenlooper today.

 

[diaspora]

Erdogan is, AFAIK a populist, religious conservative not totally unlike what we see in other western nations no? A piece of shit just as religious conservatives are but analogous all the same. Sprinkle in some despot-ism I guess too.

 

[Suikoguy]

Clinton met with Warren, Castro and Hickenlooper today.

Hickenlooper is an interesting choice, aside from having a horrible last name for campaign material, lol.

 

[Voysa Reezun]

Oh my god this election is amazing

Terrifying and amazing

And yet so boring because we're headed toward the same inevitable outcome that I figured we were headed for after 2014's midterms: President Hillary Clinton.

How odd the juxtaposition is.

 

[metalslimer]

No we haven't. Turkey knows how to have a smooth military takeover. They've had four in the past 50 years. Here's General Cevik Bir in 1997 on the last military coup that happened:

I understand Turkey's history, but there is always the chance of things going horribly wrong when you remove a popular democratically elected leader.

 

[pigeon]

Things look GREAT, actually. Erdogan is a fundamentalist piece of shit and deserves to be overthrown. He has exacerbated relations with the Kurdish commies and has doubled down on Turkey being all Muslism, all the time. The military has historically been the secularist, humanist faction and has tried to make Turkey pro-European, pro-secular. The current government despises the military because of this.

I don't know how the people feel. But there are enough people in the military who agree, at least. The military is doing what Obama has been too weak to do, which is demand secularism and reduce fundamentalist hysteria in the country of Turkey if they are to remain a NATO ally.

Fuck Erdogan, let the blood shed.

This is, yet again, a totally insane position. You can't impose liberalism by force. That is explicitly not how liberalism works.

 

[Geg]

Who is Hickenlooper, I don't think I've ever seen that name mentioned before now

 

[Teggy]

How long until Trump tweets US should have a military coup?

 

[DataStream]

Hickenlooper is an interesting choice, aside from having a horrible last name for campaign material, lol.

Yeah, I've never heard the name before, but I think his last name rules him out. Going to drive up ink costs far too much.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

The people have consistently supported Erdogan and his party. He's never lost an election and only came close once. Even if the military coup is successful they're still going to have to deal with the fact that PKK is by far the strongest party in the country.

Good! The PKK are also anti-Erdogan.

Erdogan is, AFAIK a populist, religious conservative not totally unlike what we see in other western nations no? A piece of shit just as religious conservatives are but analogous all the same. Sprinkle in some despot-ism I guess too.

Yup. He's a populist.

What PoliGAF likes to tell me all the time is that the South has no right to make their part of the country a religious shithole and that the government has a mandate to preserve secularism. If that's true here, why isn't it true in Turkey?

This is, yet again, a totally insane position. You can't impose liberalism by force. That is explicitly not how liberalism works.

Okay, you're right, I should full-throatedly endorse Erdogan. Have you any clue what he's been doing to the country? Your disgust at my position is just like what I've said about China, but it's because you don't understand or respect the history of both the nations of Turkey and China.

Besides, I am not talking about liberalism. I am talking about secularism, which is a stepping stone.

I understand Turkey's history, but there is always the chance of things going horribly wrong when you remove a popular democratically elected leader.

There is always a chance, but the military will take care of things.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

Who is Hickenlooper, I don't think I've ever seen that name mentioned before now

He's the Governor of Colorado and literally a character in a Vonnegut novel.

 

[Roland_Gunner]

This is, yet again, a totally insane position. You can't impose liberalism by force. That is explicitly not how liberalism works.

Well this isn't totally insane. Erdogan is increasingly cracking down on free press, opposition parties, etc and yet continues to win elections. At some point the alternatives are an illiberal democracy (like Russia) or some kind of military take over that pushes back on these tendencies. Military takeover that slowly transitions into democracy worked okay in places like South Korea and Chile.

EDIT:

Good! The PKK are also anti-Erdogan.

Sorry, got my Turkish parties mixed up. The AKP (Erdogan's party) consistently wins elections. Only winning by 15% last June was a big setback for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party_(Turkey)

 

[pigeon]

What PoliGAF likes to tell me all the time is that the South has no right to make their part of the country a religious shithole and that the government has a mandate to preserve secularism. If that's true here, why isn't it true in Turkey?

It may be true in Turkey. As you yourself admit, you don't understand the will of the people in Turkey, only the will of the military. Neither do I.

I think that knowledge is pretty important to understanding this event, though.

 

[metalslimer]

This is, yet again, a totally insane position. You can't impose liberalism by force. That is explicitly not how liberalism works.

Right, it is a really complex situation though. If a leader begins to dissolve the elements that make a stable democracy, is it ok to let that leader remain in power? I agree ultimately though if the people are voting against secularism we have no right to force it on them

Edit: It's not really fair to compare the south to Turkey when the south when the south is not it's own country but a part of the US.

Also I wonder what the chances that he is actually on vacation vs got the hell out of there because he knew what was about to happen

 

[pigeon]

Right, it is a really complex situation though. If a leader begins to dissolve the elements that make a stable democracy, is it ok to let that leader remain in power? I agree ultimately though if the people are voting against secularism we have no right to force it on them

Yeah, I mean, I will say I'm not staunchly anti-coup here. I am just unimpressed by the argument that "I don't know what the people want, but I know what the military wants!"

 

[ampere]

let the blood shed.

I can never tell with you, but you do support the president of the Philippines, at least ironically

This is a really bad stance to have

 

[RustyNails]

Wow @ the support for military coups in Muslim countries again. You guys nuts or what? This is how you create MORE radicalization! Smfh

Why do you think Pakistan went from largely secular to a fundamentalist hellhole? Why do you think Iran went from a peaceful democracy to an Islamic theocracy? I thought people learned their lesson but no. Erdogan is religious and likes to play Turkish nationalism. So fucking what?

 

[ampere]

How long until Trump tweets US should have a military coup?

Hypothetically, would suggesting this be enough to imprison him for treason? I wonder how far you have to go

 

[TestOfTide]

This is, yet again, a totally insane position. You can't impose liberalism by force. That is explicitly not how liberalism works.

Yes you absolutely can, so long as the people in charge don't suddenly get replaced by conservatives.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

It may be true in Turkey. As you yourself admit, you don't understand the will of the people in Turkey, only the will of the military. Neither do I.

I think that knowledge is pretty important to understanding this event, though.

I meant that I don't know how the people feel about this military coup, but I do know how the people have felt about Erdogan in general. He's a popular president. He's got like 60% support. But the 40% of Kurds and secularists hate him, and the majority are directing tyranny against the minority. This is a good enough reason for a coup. The generals have taken the task of upholding secularism and democracy in Turkey. They are doing what is responsible.

 

[Teggy]

Hypothetically, would suggesting this be enough to imprison him for treason? I wonder how far you have to go

"Turkey has taken their country back, just like we need to do here in the US!"

 

[RustyNails]

I meant that I don't know how the people feel about this military coup, but I do know how the people have felt about Erdogan in general. He's a popular president. He's got like 60% support. But the 40% of Kurds and secularists hate him, and the majority are directing tyranny against the minority. This is a good enough reason for a coup. The generals have taken the task of upholding secularism and democracy in Turkey. They are doing what is responsible.

No its fucking not. Democracy means losers eat shit tacos, not attempt coups.

 

[metalslimer]

I meant that I don't know how the people feel about this military coup, but I do know how the people have felt about Erdogan in general. He's a popular president. He's got like 60% support. But the 40% of Kurds and secularists hate him, and the majority are directing tyranny against the minority. This is a good enough reason for a coup. The generals have taken the task of upholding secularism and democracy in Turkey. They are doing what is responsible.

This is very dangerous thinking.

 

[sc0la]

Fuck Erdogan, let the blood shed.

Gross.

"Easy" to say when it's not your blood. But it shouldn't be "easy" to say.

 

[HylianTom]

I swear, Trump's moment is getting stepped-on media-wise. I wonder if this bleeds into overlapping with the convention.

 

[royalan]

Question: IS Jill Stein an anti-vaxxer? I'm saying both things online.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Question: IS Jill Stein an anti-vaxxer? I'm saying both things online.

She caters to anti-vaxxers, but personally probably not.

 

[Teggy]

Andrea Mitchell ‏@mitchellreports 3m3 minutes ago
Busy day at @HillaryClinton DC home: Colorado Gov Hickenlooper Julian Castro @SenWarren all had secret meetings with Clinton #veepstakes



That's not what secret means!

 

[Roland_Gunner]

No its fucking not. Democracy means losers eat shit tacos, not attempt coups.

Democracy also requires respect for things like minority rights and protection of free speech. Erdogan has been increasingly infringing on both of those things including amending anti-terror laws to target journalists. Freedomhouse, among other respected NGOs, have reported on this trend:

https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2015/turkey

 

[sc0la]

Wow

@realDonaldTrump
I am proposing a complete shutdown on Butterball until our reps can figure out what is going on w/Turkey. Very dangerous!

 

[pigeon]

Wow

Joke? If not, fake.

 

[sc0la]

Joke? If not, fake.

Yes joke.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

This is, yet again, a totally insane position. You can't impose liberalism by force. That is explicitly not how liberalism works.

I remember when a socially liberal, Soviet-backed leader took over Afghanistan in 1978 and then nothing bad happened in Afghanistan again.

Erdogan is drifting towards being a dictator, but not a supporter of military dictatorship either.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Mike Pence Publicly Thanked Hillary Clinton In 2011 For Her Efforts On Libya

“I also want to thank you, specifically, for the efforts by the administration and your offices to further isolate Libya during a time of extraordinary tragedy in the streets, tragedy of which I think we’re probably only partially aware.”

So, so great.

 

[TestOfTide]

No its fucking not. Democracy means losers eat shit tacos, not attempt coups.

Let's make a US comparison. Imagine if Trump got elected president and one of his first acts was to demand the torture of suspected illegal immigrants. The law states that doing such a thing would make him impeachable. Now imagine that scenario, except we add the hypothetical of the US Constitution having a clause stating that it is the Military's duty to step in and overthrow the president of he does something like demand the torture of suspected illegal immigrants.

 

[Wilsongt]

Mike Pence Publicly Thanked Hillary Clinton In 2011 For Her Efforts On Libya



So, so great.

Democrats won't really attack it, though. Sure, they've grown a little more of a spine, but not much of one.

 

[ShironRedshift]

I swear, Trump's moment is getting stepped-on media-wise. I wonder if this bleeds into overlapping with the convention.

A lot of this is admittedly in hindsight considering the events of Nice and Turkey now, but still the fact that Pence had a deadline floating over his head that Christie and Newt really didn't probably should have taken him out of the running by itself just so that Trump would be able to make a choice that lets him move around the announcement when major events like this happen. Especially odd since Pence doesn't have the connections and history with Trump the other two do to make him be worth it.

The stuff that will be written about what happened inside the campaign will be fascinating reading when it comes out.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Why is Erdogan telling people to go out into the streets to protest this.

Wouldn't that be really dangerous.

Does he want the military to kill civilians to get more moral high ground?

 

[Wilsongt]

Oh boy. 2% of vote means Jill Stein is beating clinton.

Lol. All he is going to do is replace Bernie with Stein and republish all of his videos.

We need PD back for some Bernie x Jill Stein fanfiction