From what I am hearing this is an expected thing to happen every now and then. I guess it is in the constitution that the military is ordered to overthrow any leader that tries to move away from secularism?
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT7| Notorious R.B.G. Plans NZ Tour
- Thread starter Retromelon
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From what I am hearing this is an expected thing to happen every now and then. I guess it is in the constitution that the military is ordered to overthrow any leader that tries to move away from secularism?
A lot of this is admittedly in hindsight considering the events of Nice and Turkey now, but still the fact that Pence had a deadline floating over his head that Christie and Newt really didn't probably should have taken him out of the running by itself just so that Trump would be able to make a choice that lets him move around the announcement when major events like this happen. Especially odd since Pence doesn't have the connections and history with Trump the other two do to make him be worth it.
The stuff that will be written about what happened inside the campaign will be fascinating reading when it comes out.
Yup.. meanwhile, in contrast, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Clinton already has her pick made this far in advance, with announcement plans, contingency plans, etc.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
From what I am hearing this is an expected thing to happen every now and then. I guess it is in the constitution that the military is ordered to overthrow any leader that tries to move away from secularism?
So the question becomes: if the population wants a non-secular government, how do they ammend their constitution?
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I want Trump, on camera, blathering about Turkey, right now. Flush the toilet.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
I make it obvious when I'm kidding. I'm not right now.I can never tell with you, but you do support the president of the Philippines, at least ironically
This is a really bad stance to have
I do prefer Duterte. It is hard to say I support him because drug addicts are now turning up dead. But I think the corruption in the Philippines is a more serious problem and the other candidates were not to be trusted. They were political establishment. The establishment needs to be shaken up.
Wow. Wow.Wow @ the support for military coups in Muslim countries again. You guys nuts or what? This is how you create MORE radicalization! Smfh
Why do you think Pakistan went from largely secular to a fundamentalist hellhole? Why do you think Iran went from a peaceful democracy to an Islamic theocracy? I thought people learned their lesson but no. Erdogan is religious and likes to play Turkish nationalism. So fucking what?
Pakistan almost went to NUCLEAR WAR with India after amending the constitution to remove checks and balances. The military saved the fucking country, and then did its best to fight off the al-Qaeda resistance. You really think they should have just let the country turn into a fundamelist shithole by way of its parliament? Because that was exactly what was already happening under Sharif.
The reasons for the removal of the Shah and the Islamization of Iran are many and had little to do with the overthrow of the nationalist prime minister. Pahlavi tried to enact one party government, became responsible for human rights abuses, and mismanaged the Iranian economy. But he reigned for 20 years after the arrest of the PM. If it had mattered that much to Iranians they would have overthrown him then, not in 1979! The comparison is dumb. You know what's a country that endured a coup d'etat and is relatively successful now? Egypt.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Wow @ the support for military coups in Muslim countries again. You guys nuts or what? This is how you create MORE radicalization! Smfh
Why do you think Pakistan went from largely secular to a fundamentalist hellhole? Why do you think Iran went from a peaceful democracy to an Islamic theocracy? I thought people learned their lesson but no. Erdogan is religious and likes to play Turkish nationalism. So fucking what?
Because the past coups in this country shows that the military takes action when the head of government wants to rip apart the constitution and make the country non-secular.
I want Trump, on camera, blathering about Turkey, right now. Flush the toilet.
He's too busy fucking the P to make a comment. Besides, what is he going to attack? Their military? That would make him seem anti-military.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Is it still democracy if it leads to tyranny? Secularism and freedom above all else. Erdogan needed to be stopped.No its fucking not. Democracy means losers eat shit tacos, not attempt coups.
You know what's dangerous thinking? Letting Erdogan step all over anyone who doesn't agree with him, tearing up civil liberties, etc.This is very dangerous thinking.
It would be super dangerous. Common tactic of dictatorship is to make martyrs out of civilians and gain popular legitimacy.Why is Erdogan telling people to go out into the streets to protest this.
Wouldn't that be really dangerous.
Does he want the military to kill civilians to get more moral high ground?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Man, Admiral Stavridis seems like a pretty good pick right about now.
TestOfTide
Banned
Oh boy. 2% of vote means Jill Stein is beating clinton.
Lol. All he is going to do is replace Bernie with Stein and republish all of his videos.
We need PD back for some Bernie x Jill Stein fanfiction
What happened to PD? Last thing I remember was his "ethics in games journalism" story.
User 463088
Banned
The governor of Colorado is an interesting choice. Better than Kaine for sure.
RustyNails
Member
What wow? There is nothing remotely questionable about what I wrote. Your argument against democracy in favor of coup in Pakistan is to say they almost went to nuclear war with India is laughably bad! I mean, US almost nuked Russia too!I make it obvious when I'm kidding. I'm not right now.
I do prefer Duterte. It is hard to say I support him because drug addicts are now turning up dead. But I think the corruption in the Philippines is a more serious problem and the other candidates were not to be trusted. They were political establishment. The establishment needs to be shaken up.
Wow. Wow.
Pakistan almost went to NUCLEAR WAR with India after amending the constitution to remove checks and balances. The military saved the fucking country, and then did its best to fight off the al-Qaeda resistance. You really think they should have just let the country turn into a fundamelist shithole by way of its parliament? Because that was exactly what was already happening under Sharif.
The reasons for the removal of the Shah and the Islamization of Iran are many and had little to do with the overthrow of the nationalist prime minister. Pahlavi tried to enact one party government, became responsible for human rights abuses, and mismanaged the Iranian economy. But he reigned for 20 years after the arrest of the PM. If it had mattered that much to Iranians they would have overthrown him then, not in 1979! The comparison is dumb. You know what's a country that endured a coup d'etat and is relatively successful now? Egypt.
Not only that, but he opened the floodgates to saudi donations for madrassas, Islamicized textbooks, and instituted harsher laws. Everyone in the region fucking knows this!His first replacement for the parliament or National Assembly was a Majlis-e-Shoora, or "consultative council." After banning all political parties in 1979 he disbanded Parliament and at the end of 1981 set up the majlis, which was to act as a sort of board of advisors to the President and assist with the process of Islamization.[59] The 350 members of the Shoora were to be nominated by the President and possessed only the power to consult with him,[58] and in reality served only to endorse decisions already taken by the government.[58][60]
Even more egregious is your Iranian history. Like seriously guy. Revolution's direct catalyst was wholesale import of Western culture by Shah and tattered economy. The Students from the revolution even cite this!
LOL@supporting Cici. Duder killed how many protestors and jailed how many dissidents again?
Of course, you support a maniacal tyrant Dueterte so what can anyone expect.
This is like, the reason every dictator tyrant cites for their coup!Because the past coups in this country shows that the military takes action when the head of government wants to rip apart the constitution and make the country non-secular.
BlastProcessing
Member
No we haven't. Turkey knows how to have a smooth military takeover. They've had four in the past 50 years. Here's General Cevik Bir in 1997 on the last military coup that happened:
Wait are you holding that quote up as a positive thing? That is a pretty troubling quote.
Personally, I would rather not have my "child" periodically cured by tanks and attack chopper strafing runs.
The troll that flames Twice as bright, burns half as long.What happened to PD? Last thing I remember was his "ethics in games journalism" story.
-Lol Tzu
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
PD was permabanned for smearing a former mod as a pedophile.
metalslimer
Member
The way this is playing out does not give me confidence this will be some smooth process. It's hard to get excited with the potential for a lot of people to die
Washington Post - Jeb Bush: Trump does not represent the future of the country — or the GOP
Call it a tipping point, a time of choosing or testing. Whatever you call it, it is clear that this election will have far-reaching consequences for both the Republican Party and our exceptional country.
While he has no doubt tapped into the anxiety so prevalent in the United States today, I do not believe Donald Trump reflects the principles or inclusive legacy of the Republican Party. And I sincerely hope he doesn’t represent its future.
...
The next four months of this campaign will be entertaining politics for sure, but I’m not overly optimistic that the presidential election will be the catalyst for restoring dynamism in our country.
I haven’t decided how I’ll vote in November — whether I’ll support the Libertarian ticket or write in a candidate — but I do know there are a lot of things Republicans can do in the coming months to lay the groundwork for rebuilding our party and the foundation for a true conservative renewal in our country.
First, there is nothing more important than retaining control of Congress and state governorships and legislatures. We need House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) and others to retain this important check on the power of the White House and federal bureaucracy, no matter who wins the presidency.
TestOfTide
Banned
That doesn't sound very "PheonixDark". But wow, that explains a lot.PD was permabanned for smearing a former mod as a pedophile.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
The way this is playing out does not give me confidence this will be some smooth process. It's hard to get excited with the potential for a lot of people to die
There is a lot of noise right now and very little real info. Though it is the powder keg moment, hopefully this is resolved quickly.
RustyNails
Member
Fuck coups. Hope Erdogan can quash it and throw the revolters in jail.The way this is playing out does not give me confidence this will be some smooth process. It's hard to get excited with the potential for a lot of people to die
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Internet message boards are so horrible at covering important live events. On Reddit, just a bunch of garbage and bad info and every non-Reddit board is just regurgitating it.
gutter_trash
Banned
Fuck coups. Hope Erdogan can quash it and throw the revolters in jail.
Edrogan is eroding democracy, molding the courts to his liking, he is slowly becoming a dictator.
Imagine if Trump decides to replaced all the justices of the Supreme Court, ignore congress, and act on executive order contently
.
platypotamus
Member
I have two separate friends in Turkey, including one that landed literally an hour before this whole thing started. Sucks.
metalslimer
Member
Fuck coups. Hope Erdogan can quash it and throw the revolters in jail.
You know that if it fails these people will get a lot worse than jail and it will become more oppressive.He will consolidate enough power to prevent this from ever happening again.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I think if coup fails, Edogan and Putin will become best friends.
RustyNails
Member
You oppose anything and everything that's remotely Islamic so of course you'd say this. In democracies laws can be re written or thrown out. Indiana governor just signed LGBTQ discrimination law into his state, doesn't mean the US should invade Indiana. It depends on people, it always does! If Turkish people want a stable country with a religious Democratically elected President/PM, who the fuck are you to tell them how their democracy should look like? Not every country is going to be a swiss Democracy! This aversion to any religious leader being democratically elected in Middle East being instantly shut out is ridiculous!Edrogan is eroding democracy, molding the courts to his liking, he is slowly becoming a dictator.
Imagine if Trump decides to replaced all the justices of the Supreme Court, ignore congress, and act on executive order contently
.
metalslimer
Member
Ten minutes into the nightly news and no mention of Trump.
Good.
He must be seething that no one is talking about him.
Considering his bungling of the announcement this is probably better for him even if he doesnt think so
RustyNails
Member
Whats wrong with removing power from Military to prevent Coups like these from happening? Isn't preventing coups in a democratic country a GOOD thing?You know that if it fails these people will get a lot worse than jail and it will become more oppressive.He will consolidate enough power to prevent this from ever happening again.
gutter_trash
Banned
You oppose anything and everything that's remotely Islamic so of course you'd say this. In democracies laws can be re written or thrown out. Indiana governor just signed LGBTQ discrimination law into his state, doesn't mean the US should invade Indiana. It depends on people, it always does! If Turkish people want a stable country with a religious Democratically elected President/PM, who the fuck are you to tell them how their democracy should look like? Not every country is going to be a swiss Democracy! This aversion to any religious leader being democratically elected in Middle East being instantly shut out is ridiculous!
Democratically electing doesn't mean a blank check to change and circumvent everything to your own liking. Checks-n-balances man
what Edrogan did by taking new power of the judicial branch is abuse of power.
Ten minutes into the nightly news and no mention of Trump.
Good.
He must be seething that no one is talking about him.
He tweeted something about the Turkish people taking their country back and the same thing happening in the US if he became president...I'm being serious, just don't want to link his crap. Edit: Parody twitter account
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
He tweeted something about the Turkish people taking their country back and the same thing happening in the US if he became president...I'm being serious, just don't want to link his crap.
It was the parody account, come on now.
RustyNails
Member
Doesnt matter. Bush assumed massive concentration of executive power. Did treasonous shit by leaking CIA agents' names. Passed Draconian Patriot Act and FISA legislation. NSA apparatus started in Bush's term. Time to invade USA? Not even going into the torture memos and illegality of Iraq war.Democratically electing doesn't mean a blank check to change and circumvent everything to your own liking. Checks-n-balances man
what Edrogan did back taking new power of the judicial branch is abuse of power.
User 85168
Banned
Steve Inskeep @NPRinskeep
Having cracked down on independent media, It's lucky Erdogan found an independent TV channel to take his FaceTime call.
https://twitter.com/NPRinskeep/status/754081939309592576
It was? In that case my apologies. I saw it on another thread.It was the parody account, come on now.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Look up all of the governments that have been overturned and look up the governments set up by the military. Then ask yourself which one you'd prefer.Wait are you holding that quote up as a positive thing? That is a pretty troubling quote.
Personally, I would rather not have my "child" periodically cured by tanks and attack chopper strafing runs.
That's, like, your opinion, dude.What wow? There is nothing remotely questionable about what I wrote.
No, the situation between India and Pakistan was horrendously worse. They are not comparable. And besides, while I'm not in favor of a coup in this scenario, I think Reagan's escalation of the cold war was a mistake.Your argument against democracy in favor of coup in Pakistan is to say they almost went to nuclear war with India is laughably bad! I mean, US almost nuked Russia too!
Wow, lol. Okay, you're all over the place now. Recap:Not only that, but he opened the floodgates to saudi donations for madrassas, Islamicized textbooks, and instituted harsher laws. Everyone in the region fucking knows this!
- You made the claim that military coups cause resentment in the region and accelerate Islamization
- There have actually been several military coups in Pakistan. So, since we're talking about secular coups leading to resentment and radicalization, I presumed you to mean the 1999 military coup which forced Prime Minister Nawaz Shariff to resign, which then led to a resistance force led by al Qaeda to launch terrorist attacks in the country (that continue to this day). This really does fit your narrative.
- But noooooope. You're talking about a much older coup where a national socialist government was overthrown by conservative Islamists and led to the Islamization of Pakistani society
- So that leads me to say... Huh?! You're trying to make a point that coups cause resentment but all I see is an example of the military coup being the ones to cause the Islamization in general! So what are you even trying to say?
You need a dictionary. The chain of events over 20 years was overthrow of elected leader -> rejection of nationalization of oil -> a booming economy -> concurrent import of western culture because Shah is a western puppet -> ISRAEL STUFF -> crackdown on dissent -> authoritarianism -> economy goes way south -> revolution. Yes, there had been long-standing resentment in Iran, but the spark of revolution was the economy and the crackdown on opposition, not western culture and the overthrow.Even more egregious is your Iranian history. Like seriously guy. Revolution's direct catalyst was wholesale import of Western culture by Shah and tattered economy. The Students from the revolution even cite this!
1,500 killed and like 10k jailed, I think. Now you tell me, how many people died in Syria because there isn't a stable government and the US didn't support a side? 300k now? If Cici was so bad why would Obama support him, also? Do you think Morsi would have been better? Do you realize that Morsi was also protested against? Morsi was going to be a complete repeat of Shiraff in Pakistan so thankfully it didn't happen.LOL@supporting Cici. Duder killed how many protestors and jailed how many dissidents again?
I don't support him anymore, I just recognize he's a better choice than Roxas.Of course, you support a maniacal tyrant Dueterte so what can anyone expect.
Because Islamism is bad. Period. That's really just it. You keep saying that Erdogan has a mandate of democracy and deserves his power and it doesn't matter because he can be voted out but that's not true because he is changing the country to become anti-democratic. So the only democratic option is actually to... Throw out Erdogan. By force. It's simple.You oppose anything and everything that's remotely Islamic so of course you'd say this. In democracies laws can be re written or thrown out. Indiana governor just signed LGBTQ discrimination law into his state, doesn't mean the US should invade Indiana. It depends on people, it always does! If Turkish people want a stable country with a religious Democratically elected President/PM, who the fuck are you to tell them how their democracy should look like? Not every country is going to be a swiss Democracy! This aversion to any religious leader being democratically elected in Middle East being instantly shut out is ridiculous!
The comparisons to Indiana are bad because the federal government is going to declare the law unconstitutional anyway. And we're going to overrule Indiana's democracy just like we did in California. And North Carolina. And it'll just keep happening that way.
Do you know why? It's because the federal government has the power. Power wins.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Kris, why do you spend so much time as an authoritarian troll.
whyamihere
Banned
Clinton met with Warren, Castro and Hickenlooper today.
Well, HUH.
Well, HUH.
Letting them know personally they aren't getting it?
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Someone's gotta do it!Kris, why do you spend so much time as an authoritariantrollvoice of reason.
The real reason is that I am an American. And Americans support revolution against tyranny:
Thomas Jefferson said:When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.
whyamihere
Banned
Letting them know personally they aren't getting it?
Doesn't sound like it at all.
metalslimer
Member
President Obama supports the democratically elected government.
User 463088
Banned
HIckenlooper is the interesting one to me. If he's been vetted, it's been pretty damn far under the radar. He's a safe, white male. Not going to riffle too many feathers. He doesn't have Kaine's issues. (The money/gift thing.) I don't think he's uber exciting, but I at least like the idea of him more than Kaine.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Man, Erdogan is going to execute so many people in the coming months.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
He issued a statement. If he really supported them, NATO would be fighting the military now. And if the military wins, I guarantee you it would be business as usual. I have a small suspicion that Obama gave his personal go-ahead to the military. The only reason we care about Turkey anyway is because we need their military to be a buffer against Russia. We'll take the side of whoever's got the guns. Same as Egypt.President Obama supports the democratically elected government.
I really don't think he'll be in power after this. Military might execute some public officials though.Man, Erdogan is going to execute so many people in the coming months.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I don't like all the cheering over coups...
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