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PoliGAF 2016 |OT8| No, Donald. You don't.

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B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
Drek said:
A VP is like being legally deposed. You can't win a case against you in a deposition, only lose it by making the wrong statement/choice.

Also, people on the fence aren't coming over for Warren or Booker. People on the fence are moderates. They want to feel safe and stable. Kaine is safe and stable. The swing voters left are white middle class Americans. Sherrod Brown would be the best pick but would give the GOP a senator for free.

Also, Trump is good at throwing red meat to an already rabid fringe. He lacks the true charisma needed to rally a majority. He is not Barack Obama. He isn't Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan. He is Goldwater in an even more polarized time. He is Lee Atwater (who's widow compared the two just today). He pounds on wedge issues and false narratives. That only gets you so far. Trump shows no ability to do that and the public record blocks him from now trying to back into that.
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Let me clarify a bit, I don't think Kaine somehow makes Trump more likely to win than an alternative pick. In fact, I'd probably have to concede that Kaine (or an equivalent like Brown) is probably the best strategic choice (I don't doubt that whoever they pick has been polled to high heaven and back). But this election is not just about winning, it's about repudiating and discrediting an entire movement and style of discourse. A Kaine pick would be evidence that Hillary is worried mostly about winning and shoring up support in the traditional way in an election that is going to be everything but traditional.

Being willing to make a potentially weaker political move in order to show one's commitment to standing for our shared values against Trump would be a courageous move. Nothing about picking a white guy to pick up white voters is courageous or exciting. It doesn't create good media coverage, it does't excite the active grassroots liberals who are the ones you need volunteering to knock on doors and make calls, and it doesn't help encourage and support a deeper and more multicultural bench.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Teggy said:
2m
Ana Marie Cox‏ @anamariecox
I'm squished to the front, floor managers aren't letting ANYONE move in the aisles. Hearing that they are preventing walk out. #RNCinCLE
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I don't blame the convention goers. Didn't Trump's own family walk out?

Seriously though the speech needs to end >_<

Teggy said:
Garry Kasparov
Garry Kasparov&#8207; @Kasparov63

I’ve heard this sort of speech a lot in the last 15 years and trust me, it doesn’t sound any better in Russian.
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ayyyyy lmao
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
I think if you're approaching this election with the standard election thinking it's a mistake. This is the ultimate brand election and Donald Trump is the best brand marketer around right now. I don't see the voter who is on the fence about Trump/Hillary and Kaine somehow is the decisive factor in a way that Pence doesn't cancel out.

The election is going to be about emotions and not about reason. The VP not being important overall is exactly why you shouldn't be playing safe with it. Use it to create an emotional narrative that will get traction in social media (driven by young people), 'my ticket is multicultural and yours isn't'. All older white people is not a great look in 2016.
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If minorities don't vote in this election because there are some old white people on the dem side, they kind of deserve Trump merrily helping everyone hold them down to get kicks in. There are only two people on the ticket. Everyone in this election except a brain-surgeon-yet-still-idiotic black man has been white, and varying shades of old.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Cn73wjNXYAABAt9.jpg
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
Fuchsdh said:
If minorities don't vote in this election because there are some old white people on the dem side, they kind of deserve Trump merrily helping everyone hold them down to get kicks in.
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So white people not voting for Hillary because she didn't pick a white person is somehow better? I'm not saying that minorities won't or shouldn't vote for her, I'm saying that Hillary should be thinking about winning more than just the election.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
So white people not voting for Hillary because she didn't pick a white person is somehow better? I'm not saying that minorities won't or shouldn't vote for her, I'm saying that Hillary should be thinking about winning more than just the election.
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For a politician, this doesn't compute.
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
Samarecarm said:
This might be a bad thing/time to ask, but what's the difference?

As a non-student of WW II, I always just thought of Mussolini as the Italian Hitler.
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Mussolini was a true fascist, whereas Hitler was this weird Fascist-Socialist with eugenics and racial philosophy incorporated.

Mussolini was brutal and a traditional tyrant in every way, but he wasn't actually up on all the genocide stuff, didn't believed genetically pure races were a thing. His fascism was more traditional in that it elevated a select class of people - namely the economic elite - over the working classes and maintained that structural hierarchy through force and subversion of political opposition. His alliance with Hitler was almost entirely one of necessity to keep his fascist government in place, he didn't like the guy.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
So white people not voting for Hillary because she didn't pick a white person is somehow better? I'm not saying that minorities won't or shouldn't vote for her, I'm saying that Hillary should be thinking about winning more than just the election.
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Why are we assuming the primary reason she picked him (not even confirmed yet!) was because he was white (to pander to white voters) and not because he has more experience than Perez or Booker, actual FP chops unlike Warren and/or seems to get along with her well?
 
G

Grief.exe

Member
maabus1999 said:
It is 11:30 EST. I bet a lot of people have turned off their TV's on the east coast. Horribly managed campaign.
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I'm just surprised Trump is capable of staying on message for any length of time, let alone the longest speech in convention history.

Did you see the speech for the original Mike Pence rollout? It was a rambling mess that barely mentioned Mike Pence.
 
S

Sianos

Member
That "WE WANT THEM OUT OF OUR COUNTRY" line alone makes this journey over the hot coals worth it.

He really couldn't resist, could he.
 
T

TheFatOne

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
I think if you're approaching this election with the standard election thinking it's a mistake. This is the ultimate brand election and Donald Trump is the best brand marketer around right now. I don't see the voter who is on the fence about Trump/Hillary and Kaine somehow is the decisive factor in a way that Pence doesn't cancel out.
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This is certainly True. He is about to brand the GOP as racists particularly against hispanics, and doom them in the future. If the Dems can paint Trump = Republicans the GOP is absolutely fucked long term.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
The balloon drop is as boring as the speech.
And just as long.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
Crocodile said:
Why are we assuming the primary reason she picked him (not even confirmed yet!) was because he was white (to pander to white voters) and not because he has more experience than Perez or Booker, actual FP chops unlike Warren and/or seems to get along with her well?
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Well the thread said reports/rumors were confirming Kaine so I talked in response to that. Second, a poster explicitly talked about all the advantages Kaine would bring in terms of getting more white voters. But that aside...

It's for the same reasons we know white men are often hired at the expense of other equally qualified candidates. Having the personal skills to do something and having the 'official credentials' are two different things. If you're never given the opportunity it's hard to satisfy the condition. I think we can all agree politics isn't exactly an equal opportunity employer in terms of building the 'resume'.
 
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